2010-2011 University of Vermont Application Thread

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What exctly do you put in a LoI besides the obvious "i really realllllly wanna go here"?

Be specific about why you want to go there. Tell them specific aspects about their program, community, hospital, reputation, location....What it is that make you want to go there. Tell them about what they have that other schools do not.
 
I dunno man🙁
I also think I made a tactical error sending in an update letter before the decisions came out. It was detailed and told pretty much everything I have been up to PLUS that I love them and now I have nothing left to say🙁

I did the same thing, but then I did even more research on the school and found some more topics to talk about.
 
I did the same thing, but then I did even more research on the school and found some more topics to talk about.
Thanks dude, that actually really helps. I do have a list of semi-unique reasons about why I want to go there and I will be more specific about those in my next letter.

I'm sure that they will be inundated with letters in the next few weeks....😉
 
The admissions office said that the committee only meets every 6-8 weeks and one cycle just passed. The next meeting wont be until the end of January with decisions being released very early February. Hope the info helps someone out or puts them at ease a bit.
 
nope I did not send in an update letter but did send in a thank you letter to my interviewer which he mentioned he would share with the admission's office. I will probably be withdrawing soon which will open up a spot for another OOS so hopefully one of you on here can get that spot.
 
Had to withdraw application today 🙁 finances/crazy job stuff going on...but hopefully they will give someone else my january interview date! good luck! (was OOS, if that matters)
 
I created a new account for anonymity. I interviewed here earlier this cycle and was waitlisted. I was recently accepted to my number one choice, so I will be withdrawing soon. I do think UVM's program is amazing and would have gone here if I had not gotten in to my number one choice. I am by no means dogging the program. My main issue is with the admissions procedures followed at UVM. The admissions office staff are so nice and helpful, so once again, I am not dogging them. According to the MSAR, there are about 500 interviews for OOS applicants with only 160 OOS acceptances (for around 80 spots). That's only a 30% acceptance rate. Way too low for not being a top ranked school. UVM simply interviews WAY too many applicants, causing false hopes and unnecessary expenses for those interviewed. If you are waitlisted as an OOS applicant, chances are you will not get in -- sorry for being so blunt. Which brings me to my next point, the process for granting interviews is bogus. I know how the process works (trust me) and there is basically one person (I will not say who) who can grant these interviews because he/she likes you personally or how you brown-nose them saying how much you love their program. Thus, the process of granting interviews and Admissions Committee review is fragmented. The admissions committee here does not grant interviews. So, if you receive an interview, there is a high chance that when the committee does a final review of your file, they may not even like your app. That equates to money lost (Vermont is not cheap) and false hopes. I believe it is selfish for UVM to interview so many people knowing they can interview less (by extending fewer, select invites via the admissions committee) and still guarantee a full class (BY FAR). I believe this process is unfair to applicants and should be modified. Just giving my two cents, but hey, I'm withdrawing, so your chances just got a little better at getting in. lol :laugh:
 
Let's talk a bit about what you wrote...I was an OOS applicant last year, who, like many, was waitlisted. Contrary to what you said, I was accepted. Most people are waitlisted, but 75% of the class is OOS, so that would mean that a fair number of people have to get waitlisted. Does being waitlisted cause unnecessary stress? Yes, no doubt about it. Is there a reason they waitlist people at UVM? Yes, there sure is. UVM waitlists in order to ensure that they are able to see each and every interviewee before completely filling the class. It sucks for the applicants, but it creates an awesome class. Our class dynamic (back me up here other first-years) is great and I think that really speaks to the admissions committee.

Secondly, you say that UVM interviews too many people for a school that isn't a top program. Apart from the fact that rankings don't really mean anything, have you seen that UVM is #4 currently on one of the two main rankings?

As for how the applicants are chosen for interview, I challenge you to find out how other schools do it. Do they throw the files down the stairs and see which one falls the farthest? Most schools have to do ridiculous things to whittle down the applicant numbers because there are too many qualified students. It may be unfair, but it's reality.

Congratulations on your acceptance to your top choice. I'm glad you withdrew and gave another lucky applicant your space. Best of luck.
 
Let's talk a bit about what you wrote...I was an OOS applicant last year, who, like many, was waitlisted. Contrary to what you said, I was accepted. Most people are waitlisted, but 75% of the class is OOS, so that would mean that a fair number of people have to get waitlisted. Does being waitlisted cause unnecessary stress? Yes, no doubt about it. Is there a reason they waitlist people at UVM? Yes, there sure is. UVM waitlists in order to ensure that they are able to see each and every interviewee before completely filling the class. It sucks for the applicants, but it creates an awesome class. Our class dynamic (back me up here other first-years) is great and I think that really speaks to the admissions committee.

Secondly, you say that UVM interviews too many people for a school that isn't a top program. Apart from the fact that rankings don't really mean anything, have you seen that UVM is #4 currently on one of the two main rankings?

As for how the applicants are chosen for interview, I challenge you to find out how other schools do it. Do they throw the files down the stairs and see which one falls the farthest? Most schools have to do ridiculous things to whittle down the applicant numbers because there are too many qualified students. It may be unfair, but it's reality.

Congratulations on your acceptance to your top choice. I'm glad you withdrew and gave another lucky applicant your space. Best of luck.

I think he had valid points. If his data are true, that is too many interviews vs. acceptances extended. For many people flying to an interview can involve hundreds of dollars or more in expenses, not to mention time off work or school. Most schools accept 50% or more of applicants who have been interviewed.

UVM is a great school, but I and I don't think most people would call it a 'top' program. I'm saying this as someone who has an interview there and at other similarly ranked schools, but have no chance of getting an interview at Mayo or UCSF or Stanford. Everyone knows which of the two rankings you're referring to; no one cares about that one. No one is denying that it is a great school, or that the class isn't great, but almost every school says their class is great, and most of them are probably right.
 
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In response to your first paragraph: How does this relate to anything? It is obvious that OOS applicants get off the waitlist (the lucky ones). I never said they didn't (confused??). Please look back at my argument. Also, the fact that 75% of the class is OOS does not weaken my argument. Once again, look to my previous post.

Your second paragraph: I know you go to UVM and you feel and allegiance to your school, but UVM is not where TOP RANKED applicants go. Therefore, one can argue it is not TOP RANKED. Look to my post, and I said I love the program. I am not dogging UVM.

Third paragraph: Most schools grant interviews via the admissions committee. Also, I wouldn't trust essentially one person to "whittle down the applicant numbers" like UVM does. This is a little too ridiculous.

I think you may need to re-read my previous post because your response does not weaken it at all. I am not trying to be hostile. I wish you the best of luck and would have loved to go to UVM.

Let's talk a bit about what you wrote...I was an OOS applicant last year, who, like many, was waitlisted. Contrary to what you said, I was accepted. Most people are waitlisted, but 75% of the class is OOS, so that would mean that a fair number of people have to get waitlisted. Does being waitlisted cause unnecessary stress? Yes, no doubt about it. Is there a reason they waitlist people at UVM? Yes, there sure is. UVM waitlists in order to ensure that they are able to see each and every interviewee before completely filling the class. It sucks for the applicants, but it creates an awesome class. Our class dynamic (back me up here other first-years) is great and I think that really speaks to the admissions committee.

Secondly, you say that UVM interviews too many people for a school that isn't a top program. Apart from the fact that rankings don't really mean anything, have you seen that UVM is #4 currently on one of the two main rankings?

As for how the applicants are chosen for interview, I challenge you to find out how other schools do it. Do they throw the files down the stairs and see which one falls the farthest? Most schools have to do ridiculous things to whittle down the applicant numbers because there are too many qualified students. It may be unfair, but it's reality.

Congratulations on your acceptance to your top choice. I'm glad you withdrew and gave another lucky applicant your space. Best of luck.
 
FWIW, I agree with atr12 for the most part. They do interview way too many OOS people. Chances of acceptance is too low for spending all the money to get there for the interview. It's a fair argument. I'm going to go anyway though b/c I do really like UVM's program and if there's any chance I have of getting in, well...no reason not to go.
 
FWIW, I agree with atr12 for the most part. They do interview way too many OOS people. Chances of acceptance is too low for spending all the money to get there for the interview. It's a fair argument. I'm going to go anyway though b/c I do really like UVM's program and if there's any chance I have of getting in, well...no reason not to go.

Well I think it depends on the situation. If you feel like you will not get many interviews in the cycle or do not have many up until you interview at UVM, then you should take the interview. Odds at schools that don't accept too many OOS applicants are not great obviously; however, your interview may go well, etc. and you have to take your chances on it regardless of cost. That may be the only school you get into.
 
I think the take home message is that I desperately hope UVM accepts me from the OOA waitlist
 
As a current OOA waitlister who is hoping to be accepted, I believe the MSAR does not relay totally accurate information. While there may be only 160 (not sure this number is in the MSAR, but don't know becuase I don't own one) OOA applicants accepted, it seems like many OOA are waitlisted initally.
How many of those who are waitlisted initially withdraw due to another acceptance? That information would help get a better feel for the number of acceptances.

It seems that UVM is also responds well to those who are waitlisted who show continued interest in their program.

It would be interesting to find out the number of OOA watilisted prior to acceptances who sent in letters reaffirming their interest in attending their program vs. those who did nothing and were accepted off the waitlist.

I like the fact that UVM works this way. They want to create the best overall class they can.

Rankings Shmankings. Go to school, obtain the degree of doctor, and spend your life helping others. That's what this is all about, to me at least.
 
Yes the OOA waitlist feels extra "limbo-like", and is not fun as an applicant, but it definitely makes sense from the admissions standpoint. I interviewed back in Oct and my interview day was full of extremely qualified oos candidates, many of whom were already 6 or 7 interviews deep in the trail (I think I was the only one who was losing their interview "v card" haha). I think their committee realizes the nature of the application cycle and only wants to extend acceptances to people who view UVM as their top choice. Which is awesome, because if we are lucky enough to get off the OOA list, we can rest assured that the entire class will be individuals that want to be there. Let's keep up the optimism, still a long year ahead! :xf:
 
As a current OOA waitlister who is hoping to be accepted, I believe the MSAR does not relay totally accurate information. While there may be only 160 (not sure this number is in the MSAR, but don't know becuase I don't own one) OOA applicants accepted, it seems like many OOA are waitlisted initally.
How many of those who are waitlisted initially withdraw due to another acceptance? That information would help get a better feel for the number of acceptances.

It seems that UVM is also responds well to those who are waitlisted who show continued interest in their program.

It would be interesting to find out the number of OOA watilisted prior to acceptances who sent in letters reaffirming their interest in attending their program vs. those who did nothing and were accepted off the waitlist.

I like the fact that UVM works this way. They want to create the best overall class they can.

Rankings Shmankings. Go to school, obtain the degree of doctor, and spend your life helping others. That's what this is all about, to me at least.

You mention that the MSAR does not take into account applicant withdrawals. Please realize that all schools have applicants withdraw from their program, not just Vermont. This does not justify the extremely low acceptance rate and excessive interview invites. More applicants don't withdraw from UVM than from other similar programs and those other schools still maintain around a 50% or greater acceptance rate with fewer and more select interview invites.
 
checked today, looks like ive been small pooled. what is the usual time line of events after one is small pooled?
 
It doesnt seem that UVM interviews a whole lot more applicants than many other medical schools---especially the private ones. I did not see number of offers made to fill the class listed in the MSAR--only the number of matriculants:

UVM
Interviewed - 619
Matrics - 115

Dartmouth
Interviewed - 639
Matrics - 84

Einstein
Interviewed - 1339
Matric - 183

Toledo
Interviewed - 503
Matrics - 175

Drexel
Interviewed - 1339
Matrics -260

Case Western
Interviewed - 1296
Matrics - 199

Penn State
Interviewed - 908
Matrics - 144
 
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It doesnt seem that UVM interviews a whole lot more applicants than many other medical schools---especially the private ones. I did not see number of offers made to fill the class listed in the MSAR--only the number of matriculants:

UVM
Interviewed - 619
Matrics - 115

Dartmouth
Interviewed - 639
Matrics - 84

Einstein
Interviewed - 1339
Matric - 183

Toledo
Interviewed - 503
Matrics - 175

Drexel
Interviewed - 1339
Matrics -260

Case Western
Interviewed - 1296
Matrics - 199

Penn State
Interviewed - 908
Matrics - 144

That entirely misses the point. We're talking about percentage of interviewees who are offered an acceptance. For example, Ohio State extended acceptances to 53% of the people they interviewed last year.
 
It doesnt seem that UVM interviews a whole lot more applicants than many other medical schools---especially the private ones. I did not see number of offers made to fill the class listed in the MSAR--only the number of matriculants:

UVM
Interviewed - 619
Matrics - 115

Dartmouth
Interviewed - 639
Matrics - 84

Einstein
Interviewed - 1339
Matric - 183

Toledo
Interviewed - 503
Matrics - 175

Drexel
Interviewed - 1339
Matrics -260

Case Western
Interviewed - 1296
Matrics - 199

Penn State
Interviewed - 908
Matrics - 144


You need to consider acceptances only. Matriculations do not prove anything. Last year's MSAR and other sources confirm that each of these schools u mentioned have an acceptance rate of over 50%.
 
You need to consider acceptances only. Matriculations do not prove anything. Last year's MSAR and other sources confirm that each of these schools u mentioned have an acceptance rate of over 50%.

i doubt that dartmouth accepts 300+ and only gets 82 to matriculate... einstein accepts 600+ and gets 180? I dont know, both of those seem a bit off.
 
i doubt that dartmouth accepts 300+ and only gets 82 to matriculate... einstein accepts 600+ and gets 180? I dont know, both of those seem a bit off.

Yes, but Dartmouth and Einstein are highly ranked. UVM is where average applicants go and if you compare UVM to other average schools, the acceptance rate at UVM is much lower. Look at the acceptance data for Toledo, Drexel, and Penn state (for example) - much higher acceptance rates for similarly ranked schools as UVM.
 
Yes, but Dartmouth and Einstein are highly ranked. UVM is where average applicants go and if you compare UVM to other average schools, the acceptance rate at UVM is much lower. Look at the acceptance data for Toledo, Drexel, and Penn state (for example) - much higher acceptance rates for similarly ranked schools as UVM.

Some schools will offer far many more acceptances up front than they could possibly accomodate knowing that most will withdraw and go elsewhere I think other schools are much more conservative with their acceptances and only offer for the spaces available.

Interesting way to put it that a particular school is "where average applicants go"---I am not sure what that means...?
 
Some schools will offer far many more acceptances up front than they could possibly accomodate knowing that most will withdraw and go elsewhere I think other schools are much more conservative with their acceptances and only offer for the spaces available.

Interesting way to put it that a particular school is "where average applicants go"---I am not sure what that means...?

You are just speculating in your first paragraph. And I think its pretty obvious what I meant. I'm an average applicant myself with average stats. UVM and other similar schools are within my reach while others are not.
 
You are just speculating in your first paragraph. And I think its pretty obvious what I meant. I'm an average applicant myself with average stats. UVM and other similar schools are within my reach while others are not.

Speculating? Schools do overfill. I know it happens at Michigan because they talk about it right on their website:

" Similar to most medical schools, we accept more applicants than our class size. Historically not all of the applicants to whom we offer admission matriculate, thus we overfill early in the process. This puts us in the uncomfortable situation of having "excess" people in the class.

As of this point, we have overfilled our class of 170 students by more than 150 applicants. "

I think you always need to take acceptance data with a grain of salt..."acceptance rates" are inflated. Here is the link:

http://www.med.umich.edu/Medschool/vitals/
 
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I think this is getting more catty than productive...

I think we should all take a deep breath, appreciate the people around us and be happy for whatever opportunities we've had thus far...


happy-holidays.jpg
 
Speculating? Schools do overfill. I know it happens at Michigan because they talk about it right on their website:

" Similar to most medical schools, we accept more applicants than our class size. Historically not all of the applicants to whom we offer admission matriculate, thus we overfill early in the process. This puts us in the uncomfortable situation of having “excess” people in the class.

As of this point, we have overfilled our class of 170 students by more than 150 applicants. "

I think you always need to take acceptance data with a grain of salt..."acceptance rates" are inflated. Here is the link:

http://www.med.umich.edu/Medschool/vitals/

Dude, everything you have posted on here is not relevant. I understand that some schools initially over-accept, but the final acceptance data is all that matters. The schools that over-accept still have around a 50% acceptance rate post interview. Bottom line, UVMs acceptance rate is too low with too many interview invites given out for not being a top ranked program. Period.
 
Dude, everything you have posted on here is not relevant. I understand that some schools initially over-accept, but the final acceptance data is all that matters. The schools that over-accept still have around a 50% acceptance rate post interview. Bottom line, UVMs acceptance rate is too low with too many interview invites given out for not being a top ranked program. Period.

I respectfully have to disagree with you but...let's end it at that.

Congratulations on your acceptance to your top choice.
 
I find this whole debate a bit confusing. It's not like it's in a program's best interest to over-invite for interviews, since it costs a program time and money for each person it interviews. If Vermont felt like they could interview fewer than 500 people in order to adequately create their ideal class, I'm sure they would jump at the chance to cut back and eliminate a whole month from its interview schedule, saving everyone - program and applicants - a lot of hassle...so by spending so much time interviewing so many people, it shows that UVM obviously feels that each and every one of the 500 interviews are a necessary part of the process to fill the incoming class.

If Vermont cut interviews by 20% down to 400 people, I bet a fair percentage of the current students would not have made the cut, because fewer interview invites tends to mean more emphasis on statistics like GPA/MCAT, because there has to be some sort of cut-offs to whittle down the number of applicants. Does the fact that Vermont puts less emphasis on scores and more emphasis on life experiences and the fit of one's personality make it an "average school for average applicants"? Maybe, maybe not; that's up for you to decide. I personally think that's what makes the school special - there are people at UVM who were studs in undergrads with their 3.9+ GPA/38+ MCAT and there are plenty of non-traditionals with amazing life stories that don't come across as well on paper as they do in real life, so I'm glad they were given the opportunity to shine at an interview.

I'm not going to get into the whole research vs. primary care rankings debate. If you want one of the top-notch primary care educations, you'd be hard-pressed to do much better than UVM. I'm going into a primary care speciality (pediatrics), and I've been told on the interview trail that I'm going to have my pick of residency choices. I don't say that to brag at all, but to show how well UVM has prepared me for my career choice - having "UVM" on my application garners respect because I've gotten to work with some of the bigger names in the field, including the editor of Pediatrics who wrote me a letter of recommendation (he even goes so far as to give all UVM pediatric applicants his home phone number if we have any questions/concerns during the application season). This is less common in some of the bigger programs with lots of residents, where the students rarely interact directly with big-name attendings, never mind getting to know them on a personal level.

If you're not a primary-care person, Vermont is still a very good choice. I'm really excited to get to see my class's match list this year - we have over 25-30 students applying in surgical and ROAD specialties who have been interviewing at top programs all over the country. Several of my classes scored in the 250-260+ range on step 1. Students have presented research at top conferences. Sure, it might take a bit more effort to land a top ROAD residency coming from UVM than from an institution with a bigger name attached to it, but that hasn't stopped motivated students from UVM from ending up at well-known programs all around the country.

I hope this post doesn't sound defensive, because I don't intend that at all. If UVM is the right school for you, that's wonderful, and I hope you get in. And if it's not, that's great too, and I wish you the best of luck in your careers. The right school is out there for everyone, and for me it was UVM, which I chose to attend over my cheaper state school, and I don't regret that at all. And if UVM is the right school for you and you end up on the waitlist like so many do (I was OOS waitlisted for 3 weeks before getting accepted), don't give up - call/email with updates, LOIs, etc. If you have a connection to Vermont or a specific reason why you think it's the perfect fit for you, don't hesitate to let them know, because UVM wants students with the right personality fit who are committed to serving the people of Vermont.

I apologize for the long post; you can see that I'm passionate about my school! I know you guys get to meet our wonderful 1st and 2nd years on interview day, but due to logistics most of us upperclassmen aren't available, so please don't hesitate to ask me any questions (either in this thread or via PM) if you'd like to hear more from someone who's gone through almost the entire program at this point. Because while the curriculum of the first 2 years was great, it was really during my 3rd & 4th years when I began to fully understand the value of a UVM education. I couldn't be happier with my choice right now (although years from now my bank account may disagree, but oh well).

Best of luck to all of you waiting for good news this cycle; happy holidays!
 
Nice post, lockjaw. I think a lot of people here will find that very useful.

If I get an invite to UVM, I would be happy for the opportunity, even if the post-interview acceptance rate for OOS students is on the lower side.

As for atr's comments, I don't see any problem with UVM being highly selective for OOS post-interview, as all U.S. med schools are very selective, and rankings don't matter that much. Some schools overfill their classes, expecting withdrawals, while other schools are more reluctant to hand out acceptances. Every school handles the process a bit differently.

UVM seems like a great school!
 
Happy Holidays eveyone. My Christmas wish this year is that all of my waitlist friends and I are accepted in the near future. Please Santa, I've been so good all year long!
 
I think I might be a little paranoid but I always am when I come here so here is my silly question.

I did not write a thank you letter to my interviewer like many of you did, how much does that affect my chances?? just found out today I'm OOS waitlisted..
🙁
 
I think I might be a little paranoid but I always am when I come here so here is my silly question.

I did not write a thank you letter to my interviewer like many of you did, how much does that affect my chances?? just found out today I'm OOS waitlisted..
🙁

I would say it depends on the interviewer. There might be a slight chance it could have helped but in the end I doubt a Thank You Letter can affect you much especially by hurting you.
 
I would say it depends on the interviewer. There might be a slight chance it could have helped but in the end I doubt a Thank You Letter can affect you much especially by hurting you.


Thank you..

Can anyone tell me who should I address the LoI to? is it to Ms. Delaney
 
I read that many previous students in the waitlist sent in multiple LoIs and phoned in numerous times. Not sure if this was asked before but can any current student that was accepted from the waitlist let us know how many LoIs you sent in or how often you phoned? Is there such a thing as too often for UVM?

Thanks.
 
i sent in one post-interview and one more post-waitlist. i didn't call.
 
hey guys.. im trying to book a hotel right now.. would you happen to know which one is most convenient and price reasonable?
 
hey guys.. im trying to book a hotel right now.. would you happen to know which one is most convenient and price reasonable?


I stayed at the doubletree. They offer a free shuttle to the interview, and a discounted rate for uvm interviewees.
 
I stayed at the doubletree. They offer a free shuttle to the interview, and a discounted rate for uvm interviewees.

i was given a price of like 150 dollars there.. which i found to be shocking.. perhaps the lady made a mistake?
 
I stayed at the Best Western Windjammer. They gave me a rate of $90, and included free breakfast, a voucher for dinner (which covers it pretty well if you don't order a feast), and free shuttle service to/from the airport and med school.
 
i was given a price of like 150 dollars there.. which i found to be shocking.. perhaps the lady made a mistake?

I paid around $100. Maybe she was new🙂, or maybe prices have gone up.
 
I stayed at the Best Western Windjammer. They gave me a rate of $90, and included free breakfast, a voucher for dinner (which covers it pretty well if you don't order a feast), and free shuttle service to/from the airport and med school.

ya im probably going with this place too... shuttle would be best in feb..
 
For future interviewees, you should really consider their student host program. I tried it out and it was a very positive experience. The host gave me a ride to school and to the airport and was very nice. It probably saved me a lot of trouble and money. Good luck on the interviews!
 
I stayed at the quality inn in colchester for 62 a night and just took a taxi in to school (about 10 bucks)
 
Just an FYI to those on the waitlist, I was OOS and waitlisted. I sent two letters: one update letter before hearing I was on the waitlist, and another letter of intent immediately after i found out i was waitlisted (both letters were sent within a two week time period). Within 3 weeks of hearing i was waitlisted, i was notified of an acceptance.
Good luck to everyone
 
I interviewed at UVM in September and was placed on the waiting list in October. I am an in-state applicant, and am still waiting to hear back. I have sent them two update letters since being placed on the waiting list. I'm wondering how many letters people have been sending and if I should send more??
 
Still waiting for that interview, I know they'll love me if they could only give me a chance
 
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