2012-2013 Case Western Reserve University Application Thread

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What do you consider to be important when looking at the clerkship years? Schedule...location....# of other students on your rotation? Also what about clerkship grading--is it better to be mostly evaluated by faculty or residents? Large vs. small portion of your grade based on shelf? Thanks
Location definitely, specifically, what hospitals you rotate through. All Case students (including CCLCM) can rotate at multiple sites that give a broad picture of medicine, from the typical tertiary/quaternary hospital (UH) to a huge and specialized group practice (CCF) to a hard core county hospital (Metro) to a government run hospital (VA) and now apparently also to a more suburban type of hospital from what I've heard (Kaiser). There's way more to medicine than what you see at the typical tertiary care center, and I think it's important to be exposed to multiple rotation sites.

Other important things:

- How are MS3 grades determined? Most med schools use some combo of evaluations and shelf exams. But on one extreme, you have CCLCM, which doesn't count (or even require) the shelf exams at all, and on the other extreme, you have schools that weight shelf exams heavily and don't count the narrative evals for much. Based on your own strengths and weaknesses, it's worth taking that into account.
- What do students get to do? You might hear rumors sometimes that students don't get to do much at CCF, but in my experience as both a student at CCF and as a resident (not at CCF), what you get to do is highly dependent on who you're working with. I got to do a lot on most of my CCF rotations with the exception of peds. Still, some hospitals are more hands on overall than others, and some specialties are more hands on than others. You will typically get to do a lot more when you're on more procedural specialties like surgery, gyn, anesthesia, or EM, so pay attention to what students get to do.
- How are students treated? At the Case affiliated hospitals, students are under the same work hour restrictions as residents, and beating down of students is not tolerated. They're not supposed to be scutted either (i.e., asked to do a lot of busy work that does not contribute to student learning). Try to avoid places that scut students a lot or where students get belittled in the name of "teaching."

It's hard to ask about some of these things on your interview day without coming across like a jerk, so it's probably a good idea to wait to contact students for some straight talk until after you are already accepted to a given school. Second looks are also a good time to check out hospitals and talk to upper level students. Not that the gung ho MS1s you meet at your interview days aren't giving you their honest perspectives about what life at their med schools is like, but they obviously don't know what rotations or residency apps are like since they haven't gotten that far yet. Try to talk to MS3s or MS4s, or even recent alums, if at all possible.

My research advisor's letter is included in my committee letter packet. For CCLCM, is that ok or do I need to get the research advisor's letter sent through amcas seperately?
It should be fine as long as a research letter is included somewhere.

So ~13% chance of acceptance post-interview, oy vey.
You can't come up with an acceptance chance like that, because all applicants aren't equally likely to be accepted. There are some applicants who are so awesome on paper that the interview is almost just a formality unless they do something awful on their interview day. Obviously they have a much higher chance of acceptance than average. There are some applicants who make everyone they meet on interview day hate them, or who are "courtesy invites" that wouldn't have gotten an invite otherwise, and they have little to no chance of getting accepted. And then there is a large group in the middle who could be good students but who don't particularly stand out one way or the other. So, the average odds of acceptance may be 13%, but an individual applicant's odds of acceptance may be much higher or lower than that.

was put on hold for the college track, pre-interview today. does anyone know how often they do this? is there a large pre-interview hold group, or are they pretty good about rejecting kids straight off the bat if they don't really have a chance at all? does anyone know how many kids get put into the pre-interview hold group, and how many people make it off the hold and get an interview?
Don't know how many people get pre-interview holds or who ultimately end up with invites after being on pre-interview hold, but it's pretty common to have your app put on hold. They do also reject quite a few people without invites-there are already several people who posted about rejections in this thread.

So it's been about a week since I got my II from CCLCM (via status update), but I still don't have anything in my email yet from them. I double checked my spam folder and there's nothing in there either. Is it normal to not get an email from Case/CCLCM after status updates ?
Call or email the office if you're concerned.

Could anyone who has interviewed at the Uni Track and College Track comment on how much walking the tours are, especially outside? I am trying to figure out what to wear for a snowy interview next month and worried about heels and snow...
Bring a pair of flats to wear during the tours. CCF in particular is like a small city. Trust me, you do not want to be walking around there for an hour wearing heels.

I suspect that quite a few of those might've been people who were also accepted to MD/PhD programs.
Very likely, or else they could be people who can afford to pay tuition at other schools or got scholarships at other schools.
 
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(Responding to CCLCmer's long post)

Really would like to think medical schools don't waste time sending out courtesy invites. Since most of the "accepted percentage" (different from matriculating percentage, which most people count instead) comes from the waitlist churning, the effect of students who have inflated chances of acceptance on the final percentage is likely small.

But you're right - averages are a terrible way to estimate your cycle.
 
CCLCmer, I knew I read these forums for a reason. I think by far I've got the best advice about what is important in picking a medical school from your posts! Thank you so much!
Glad you found them helpful.

(Responding to CCLCmer's long post)

Really would like to think medical schools don't waste time sending out courtesy invites. Since most of the "accepted percentage" (different from matriculating percentage, which most people count instead) comes from the waitlist churning, the effect of students who have inflated chances of acceptance on the final percentage is likely small.

But you're right - averages are a terrible way to estimate your cycle.
I'm sorry to disabuse you of your idealism, but of course med schools give out courtesy invites. Why do you think some schools ask you if you have any connections to alums of the med school on their secondaries? I'm sure a lot of those legacy applicants would have gotten invites regardless, because people of higher SES who have more financial and educational advantages tend to have better stats/apps; it's no coincidence that so many med students/doctors have relatives who are also doctors. Recognition of the significant high SES background advantage is why there is also special consideration given to people from disadvantaged backgrounds.

As for students' chances of acceptances, the people who get direct acceptances early in the app season are generally the people who had a much higher than average chance of getting an acceptance to begin with. Look through this thread, because there are lots of them. And congrats to those of you who are already holding UP acceptances, because most of you are going to be in the enviable position of making some difficult decisions in May. 👍
 
Glad you found them helpful.


I'm sorry to disabuse you of your idealism, but of course med schools give out courtesy invites. Why do you think some schools ask you if you have any connections to alums of the med school on their secondaries? I'm sure a lot of those legacy applicants would have gotten invites regardless, because people of higher SES who have more financial and educational advantages tend to have better stats/apps; it's no coincidence that so many med students/doctors have relatives who are also doctors. Recognition of the significant high SES background advantage is why there is also special consideration given to people from disadvantaged backgrounds.

I wouldn't worry about my idealism 😛 This process is a wonderful introduction to stress burnout.

I guess I just don't see it - legacy or not, they're wasting their time interviewing someone they don't intend to accept, regardless of whether they're a legacy or not. I could see legacy strengthening a weak application, but not resulting in a "courtesy invite" - which to be clear, I'm defining as an interview invite in which the school already knows upon invite that that applicant will not be accepted. Are we using the same definition?

I could see it happening, but not it being common.



As for students' chances of acceptances, the people who get direct acceptances early in the app season are generally the people who had a much higher than average chance of getting an acceptance to begin with. Look through this thread, because there are lots of them. And congrats to those of you who are already holding UP acceptances, because most of you are going to be in the enviable position of making some difficult decisions in May. 👍

It would be fun to go through all the data. Ah well. I guess it would probably just be something like: Oct 15th: 200 acceptances given nationwide, 20 applicants receiving.

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To get back on topic: where do people usually live around Cleveland? the Heights?
 
Does anyone know how the UP track is graded: P/F, scores? And is there a class ranking system? If so, how does that work?

Thanks!
 
Does anyone know how the UP track is graded: P/F, scores? And is there a class ranking system? If so, how does that work?

Thanks!

P/F, no ranking, if I remember right. I don't know if passing is curved, or a straight 70ish%.
 
Does anyone know how the UP track is graded: P/F, scores? And is there a class ranking system? If so, how does that work?

Thanks!

P/F, no ranking, if I remember right. I don't know if passing is curved, or a straight 70ish%.

The UP track at Case does have Alpha Omega Alpha, so they probably do have some class rank of sorts. Don't know how it works though.
 
The UP track at Case does have Alpha Omega Alpha, so they probably do have some class rank of sorts. Don't know how it works though.

We are pure P/F. None of that H/HP/P/BS. Passing score varies per block. AOA determinations are made under the cover of darkness in an alleyway after clinical rotations have been well underway.
 
We are pure P/F. None of that H/HP/P/BS. Passing score varies per block. AOA determinations are made under the cover of darkness in an alleyway after clinical rotations have been well underway.

Do they take into account pre-clinical performance when determining AOA or is it based only on your clerkship performance?
 
I wouldn't worry about my idealism 😛 This process is a wonderful introduction to stress burnout.
You get no argument from me there.

I guess I just don't see it - legacy or not, they're wasting their time interviewing someone they don't intend to accept, regardless of whether they're a legacy or not. I could see legacy strengthening a weak application, but not resulting in a "courtesy invite" - which to be clear, I'm defining as an interview invite in which the school already knows upon invite that that applicant will not be accepted. Are we using the same definition?
I wouldn't word it in quite that way, but yes, that's sometimes how it works out. Basically, a courtesy invite means that the school is inviting someone to interview regardless of their credentials because of who that person knows. Like I said, many legacy applicants have great credentials anyway, but a few don't and get invited in spite of it, even though they basically have no chance of being accepted. I wouldn't say it's a waste of the school's time to interview these people though. If you look at it from a pragmatic perspective, wouldn't you like to have a scholarship to med school? Where does the money to fund these scholarships come from? It comes from donors, the very same donors who are able to pull strings and get invites for legacy applicants.

To get back on topic: where do people usually live around Cleveland? the Heights?
Yes, Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights are two of the more common cities where people live.
 
Is AOA important for any residency matching or career success?
 
Will there be an Adcom meeting on Monday?

Most unlikely because: 1) Nothing about an ADCOM meeting was written on Case Med twitter account. 2) There has been only one week of interviewees after the last decision that was released, so I would think they would want to have at least another week of applicants to review before they meet.
 
Most unlikely because: 1) Nothing about an ADCOM meeting was written on Case Med twitter account. 2) There has been only one week of interviewees after the last decision that was released, so I would think they would want to have at least another week of applicants to review before they meet.

Good point. Thanks!
 
Can anyone tell me about Case's grading during clinical years in the UP program? I'm having a hard time finding the info on the website, but maybe I'm just overlooking it.
 
Can anyone tell me about Case's grading during clinical years in the UP program? I'm having a hard time finding the info on the website, but maybe I'm just overlooking it.

posted earlier:

We are pure P/F. None of that H/HP/P/BS. Passing score varies per block. AOA determinations are made under the cover of darkness in an alleyway after clinical rotations have been well underway.
 
So assuming our interview day is being reviewed at this meeting, should we be expecting to hear something tomorrow or Wednesday? It seems like the last batch went out on Wednesday but prior to that had gone out on tuesday(s).
 
So assuming our interview day is being reviewed at this meeting, should we be expecting to hear something tomorrow or Wednesday? It seems like the last batch went out on Wednesday but prior to that had gone out on tuesday(s).

+1. Also any idea as to which interview dates will find out?
 
Rejected. Completed 10/5/2012. Canadian applicant GPA 3.8+
Good luck to those who are still waiting
 
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Rejected. Completed 10/5/2012. Canadian applicant GPA 3.8+
Good luck to those who are still waiting

MCAT score? I'm surprised i'm still in the running then considering your GPA is much better than mine.
 
CCLCM rejection. C: 9/19/12

Sigh, this was my favorite too. 🙁
 
Anyone here that did MSTP interview remember what hotel they put up interviewees in? I'd rather not bother then at this point but am trying to make a plan...
 
Does CWRU review the UP and CP applications at around the same time? Just wondering if I will be hearing from UP at some point since I've unfortunately heard from CP today.
 
Does CWRU review the UP and CP applications at around the same time? Just wondering if I will be hearing from UP at some point since I've unfortunately heard from CP today.

They have separate admission committees so I'm pretty sure the two tracks review apps at their own pace. If it helps you to know though, I heard from UP about 2 weeks after I heard from CP.
 
Just got placed in the hold category post-interview. Top choice school, super bummed out :\
 
ACCEPTED!!!!!!!! and with merit scholarship too. As an international student, I never saw this coming. Extremely honored right now
 
Are case students busy this Sunday/Monday? I still haven't heard back from a student host.
 
I'm trying to reserve my plane tickets, and the 5:55pm one works best for me. Would that be cutting it close? There are other tickets after 5:55pm, but those are around $80 more expensive. Thanks!
 
I'm not sure how far the airport is but I was done around 3:30
 
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