2017-2018 Seton Hall - Hackensack Meridian

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medschoolzombie said:
SHU is literally just a location for the actual school and because they need an academic institution according to the article. They're still in charge of handing out diplomas with the SHU name so I can't imagine them being kicked off but no doubt Hackensack will have the final say in any decisions. Ya I doubt the mission will stay the same too
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from what I gathered, the dean is really genuine....my guess is at heart she is really dissapointed by all of this but this is the reality of the power of money---- good missions fade b/c they are usually started by people or places who can't financially sustain them and that is b/c the types of people that start heavy mission driven ideas are not motivated by money and are more motivated by valuing others and the community over making a top dollar. I wonder if the rumor someone posted earlier about Hackensack making it a "for profit" is true? If so, it would be a complete pivot away from all the mission driven ideas that were discussed over the years in which this program was being developed. There are a bunch of YouTube videos from the past three years where the genuine sense of sticking to the mission was conveyed.....as someone who followed the development closely and had high hopes for the program, there is definitely a sense of frustration seeing the power of the dollar come to light in this situation.
 
humblethinker said:
feels like it is implied based on the article, removal of information on the site, clear trend in II for high metric applicants, and the emphasis on private funding and Hackensack seeking to make it a top school with top applicants. Looks like as of July 1, SHU will no longer be involved financially and at some point I wouldn't be surprised to see the SHU name completely dropped out of the school if all funding is from Hackensack. Also, you'll notice the key word "at" in the new title of the school instead of the word "of" likely implying that SHU is just the physical location where Hackensack's privately funded program is taking place....therefore no longer connected or responsible for emphasizing the Catholic mission of SHU.
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I think there is no way to say there’s a clear trend of IIs for high metric applicants. SDN is a just a section of the population that there’s no way to generalize that. Even if there is, I don’t think that in anyway reflects them straying from their mission. I think every medical school, regardless of their mission, tries to interview applicants with high metrics. Who can blame a new medical school especially for doing that? They’re trying to gain some credibility, but I’m sure that’s not all they’re looking at. I’m sure there will be low or average stat people interviewed and accepted, as well as high stat people who don’t get an II or get rejected post II because they didn’t fit the program. We can’t say exactly what this school wants from students until the cycle is done and we have the data to prove it. Until then, let’s not criticize them for doing what basically every other medical school does.
 
Basil246 said:
I think there is no way to say there’s a clear trend of IIs for high metric applicants. SDN is a just a section of the population that there’s no way to generalize that. Even if there is, I don’t think that in anyway reflects them straying from their mission. I think every medical school, regardless of their mission, tries to interview applicants with high metrics. Who can blame a new medical school especially for doing that? They’re trying to gain some credibility, but I’m sure that’s not all they’re looking at. I’m sure there will be low or average stat people interviewed and accepted, as well as high stat people who don’t get an II or get rejected post II because they didn’t fit the program. We can’t say exactly what this school wants from students until the cycle is done and we have the data to prove it. Until then, let’s not criticize them for doing what basically every other medical school does.
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I agree, the point was more that there is a trend on here for high stat II. But overall, everything appears to be moving in a direction where I think it is fair to say we now might have less confidence in the program adhering to the initial mission it had during its developmental stages over the last few years.
 
What does for profit med school mean? Like what are other examples of med schools that are considered for profit? Don’t most med schools other than a few public ones in like Texas have high tuitions?
 
The high amount of OOS interviews alone should let you know that the school is focusing on becoming more stat based. But can you blame them? There is nothing wrong with the school wanting to admit the best students. However, it is slightly disappointing (for us NJ residents and SHU students) to see HSM steering away from Seton Hall's original mission. Money talks. That doesn't mean HSM is some evil corporation. They just want students who have shown they can produce.
 
Allright, high stats and fitting this schools mission are not mutually exclusive, same goes for being OOS. They want to help alleviate the physician shortage in New Jersey, and they quote numerous times that people who go to med school in NJ, and do Residency in NJ tend to practice in NJ. So they don’t need to take people who grew up in NJ to alleviate the physician shortage, they know that even if your from across the country, if you do school and residency here (like by taking advantage of their three year into Hackensack option) you will likely practice here. And the other mission they have seemed to really care about is teaching and appreciating all the social, economical, and contextual determinants of health besides medical care. One need not have a certain LizzyM score to fit this mission and show a history of empathy for these things. If a high stats person wants to go to school here and shows an interest in the socioeconomic determinants of health, I would hope for the schools sake they would be chosen over a lower stats but otherwise equivalent counterpart. Basically, we can’t make any judgments about them sticking to their mission or not just because they interviewing high stats, and OOS’s

Omg, sorry so long
 
futureDr.funnylookin said:
Allright, high stats and fitting this schools mission are not mutually exclusive, same goes for being OOS. They want to help alleviate the physician shortage in New Jersey, and they quote numerous times that people who go to med school in NJ, and do Residency in NJ tend to practice in NJ. So they don’t need to take people who grew up in NJ to alleviate the physician shortage, they know that even if your from across the country, if you do school and residency here (like by taking advantage of their three year into Hackensack option) you will likely practice here. And the other mission they have seemed to really care about is teaching and appreciating all the social, economical, and contextual determinants of health besides medical care. One need not have a certain LizzyM score to fit this mission and show a history of empathy for these things. If a high stats person wants to go to school here and shows an interest in the socioeconomic determinants of health, I would hope for the schools sake they would be chosen over a lower stats but otherwise equivalent counterpart. Basically, we can’t make any judgments about them sticking to their mission or not just because they interviewing high stats, and OOS’s

Omg, sorry so long
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People are just salty they didn’t get interviews. Although it is a bit unfortunate about the changing Seton Hall - Hackensack financial situation imo.
 
humblethinker said:
sounds like with the confirmation about Hackensack taking over the program, the emphasis on the mission as represented by the Catholic roots of Seton Hall may no longer exist. Looks like it may end up just being another medical school seeking top metric applicants without really sticking to a mission. Not a fan b/c I really thought with SHU being involved it would help give this program a great niche and the potential for differentiated and meaningful impact.
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Oh dear me, how ever so will I fulfill my role as a physician without adhering to the good and pure morals of the Christian faith. Truly I need the guidance of shu to lead me down the path of Christ in order to deliver effective Medical Care.

Give me a break. Every school in the country wants the same thing. Even schools that purportedly, "serve the state" do similar things as other schools that serve "the region". Do you think Yale doesn't care about New Haven? Or the same for other "top" schools and their respective regions?

Is Pittsburgh worse for Pennsylvania than UNC is for North Carolina simply because they admit higher stats students? I don't agree with that statement.
 
7331poas said:
Oh dear me, how ever so will I fulfill my role as a physician without adhering to the good and pure morals of the Christian faith. Truly I need the guidance of shu to lead me down the path of Christ in order to deliver effective Medical Care.

Give me a break. Every school in the country wants the same thing. Even schools that purportedly, "serve the state" do similar things as other schools that serve "the region". Do you think Yale doesn't care about New Haven? Or the same for other "top" schools and their respective regions?

Is Pittsburgh worse for Pennsylvania than UNC is for North Carolina simply because they admit higher stats students? I don't agree with that statement.
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Whose mans is this?
 
7331poas said:
Oh dear me, how ever so will I fulfill my role as a physician without adhering to the good and pure morals of the Christian faith. Truly I need the guidance of shu to lead me down the path of Christ in order to deliver effective Medical Care.

Give me a break. Every school in the country wants the same thing. Even schools that purportedly, "serve the state" do similar things as other schools that serve "the region". Do you think Yale doesn't care about New Haven? Or the same for other "top" schools and their respective regions?

Is Pittsburgh worse for Pennsylvania than UNC is for North Carolina simply because they admit higher stats students? I don't agree with that statement.
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The point is, when videos like the ones listed below were posted years ago about the developing school, there appeared to be a genuine commitment to embracing the Seton Hall core values and ensuring they were a focus within medical education at the program.
Here are the YouTube links so you can compare the "then" vs "now" and how different the school might actually be relative to the expectations during the course of its development.





 
Any acceptances yet? Also, would it be worth it for me to apply this late? I just heard about the school.
 
lolahola said:
What does for profit med school mean? Like what are other examples of med schools that are considered for profit? Don’t most med schools other than a few public ones in like Texas have high tuitions?
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The way it was explained to me : It means exactly that. They're for profit. For-profits aren't funded by taxpayers...they're funded by investors. Unless you count Pell grant money...then they're funded by both. All sorts of ethics come into play, such as: which takes precedence, profit or education? From what I understand about the corporate world, for-profit schools ideally would be concerned with maximum efficiency. How to turn out adequate physicians and keep their doors open so they keep making money for investors. They follow a business model usually at the expense of student satisfaction/prioritization to maximize profits . They also tendency of admitting large numbers of students yet they have specific numbers they require at each stage as you progress.

They say their true goal is to help fight the shortage of healthcare providers in underserved areas. Whether that's legitimate or not probably depends on the school. Also, many of these students that attend a for-profit are ineligible for many federal loan repayment/forgiveness options.

The best examples I can think of are the Caribbean schools, but CNU is an MD for-profit school (but I don't think they have federal loan status)

Having a high tuition doesn't make it a for-profit school. I think the only reason Texas has low rates is because they're subsidized by the government probably on the condition that they primarily accept texas people
 
lolahola said:
What does for profit med school mean? Like what are other examples of med schools that are considered for profit? Don’t most med schools other than a few public ones in like Texas have high tuitions?
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MD: California Northstate University College of Medicine
DO: Idaho College of Osteopathic Medicine
DO: Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
DO: Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine

For profit status means the primary reason for operation is to make money after paying all the debts due to anyone involved with funding the school. The ethical issue is that it is possible there are sacrifices made to increase the bottom line as opposed to ensuring the best quality education. Federal loans are not available at for profit schools.
 
humblethinker said:
MD: California Northstate University College of Medicine
DO: Idaho College of Osteopathic Medicine
DO: Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
DO: Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine

For profit status means the primary reason for operation is to make money after paying all the debts due to anyone involved with funding the school. The ethical issue is that it is possible there are sacrifices made to increase the bottom line as opposed to ensuring the best quality education. Federal loans are not available at for profit schools.
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Federal loans can become available after 2 years of the programs continued existence. RVU has loans
 
medschoolzombie said:
The way it was explained to me : It means exactly that. They're for profit. For-profits aren't funded by taxpayers...they're funded by investors.
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Both non-profit and for-profit schools receive private funding. Also both can receive public funding as well. Even private schools receive public funding.

medschoolzombie said:
All sorts of ethics come into play, such as: which takes precedence, profit or education?
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You don't think non-profit hospitals are concerned with their financials?

The difference between non-profit hopsitals and for-profit are one gives their profits to investors, the other uses it to build a waterfall display in their lobby (or they simply write off their profits as bonuses to the people who want the profitable portion).

medschoolzombie said:
Also, many of these students that attend a for-profit are ineligible for many federal loan repayment/forgiveness options.
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Incorrect.

humblethinker said:
MD: California Northstate University College of Medicine
DO: Idaho College of Osteopathic Medicine
DO: Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
DO: Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine

For profit status means the primary reason for operation is to make money after paying all the debts due to anyone involved with funding the school. The ethical issue is that it is possible there are sacrifices made to increase the bottom line as opposed to ensuring the best quality education. Federal loans are not available at for profit schools.
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Also Kaiser which many are stating has the possibility of being a top program.

being for profit absolutely does not bar federal aid possibilities.
 
lolahola said:
Is CNU for profit because they have been open for longer than 2 years and they still don’t give federal loans?
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Yeah they are eligible to apply for federal loans, they were actually eligible before they opened the medical school because they already had a pharmacy school, but they don't want to apply for whatever reason, presumably associated costs.
 
medschoolzombie said:
The way it was explained to me : It means exactly that. They're for profit. For-profits aren't funded by taxpayers...they're funded by investors. Unless you count Pell grant money...then they're funded by both. All sorts of ethics come into play, such as: which takes precedence, profit or education? From what I understand about the corporate world, for-profit schools ideally would be concerned with maximum efficiency. How to turn out adequate physicians and keep their doors open so they keep making money for investors. They follow a business model usually at the expense of student satisfaction/prioritization to maximize profits . They also tendency of admitting large numbers of students yet they have specific numbers they require at each stage as you progress.

They say their true goal is to help fight the shortage of healthcare providers in underserved areas. Whether that's legitimate or not probably depends on the school. Also, many of these students that attend a for-profit are ineligible for many federal loan repayment/forgiveness options.

The best examples I can think of are the Caribbean schools, but CNU is an MD for-profit school (but I don't think they have federal loan status)

Having a high tuition doesn't make it a for-profit school. I think the only reason Texas has low rates is because they're subsidized by the government probably on the condition that they primarily accept texas people
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I understand the many cons of Caribbean schools. But schools like CNU might not care about their students as much as other US md schools but would these for profit school students get stigmatized against during residency match? Is that why people are worried about SHU possibly being for profit?
 
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lolahola said:
I understand the many cons of Caribbean schools. But schools like CNU might not care about their students as much as other US md schools but would these for profit school students get stigmatized against during residency match? Is that why people are worried about SHU possibly being for profit?
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No the PD could care less about profit or no profit. Your clerkships and step scores will mean everything. However if you become malignant like CNU, then it maaaaay affect you, but likely not
 
R we able to take out federal loans potentially with this program?
 
lolahola said:
I understand the many cons of Caribbean schools. But schools like CNU might not care about their students as much as other US md schools but would these for profit school students get stigmatized against during residency match? Is that why people are worried about SHU possibly being for profit?
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Not sure if they’d be stigmatized but it sounds like that could be a very valid concern. Your step scores could become what defines you and if it’s anything like the Caribbean ,you may be kicked out if you don’t meet a certain threshold
 
Idk why everyone equates healthcare system becoming more involved with a school becoming for profit. This is not the case. Same thing happened with einstein where montefiore took control of the school and yeshiva univesity is essentially not involved anymore. Still a not-for-profit school.
 
LavarBall said:
Idk why everyone equates healthcare system becoming more involved with a school becoming for profit. This is not the case. Same thing happened with einstein where montefiore took control of the school and yeshiva univesity is essentially not involved anymore. Still a not-for-profit school.
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a SHU student posted the rumor of possible for profit status earlier in the thread....thats the only reason it is being discussed
 
They are not going for-profit, none of their stated values have changed (nor are they different than any other school), and no one outside of the board room truly knows how prepared/unprepared they are for opening. Can all the salty SHU undergrads stop bickering now so people can get genuine information and advice about admissions?
 
Mcatmom said:
Wow! 76! Thank you for responding! Why did u only apply to 2 schools? Which schools?
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HAHA... I was supposed to take a gap year! I re-took my MCATs last year. I only applied to the 2 new medical shools (Hackensack and CalMed and was late to both.) I heard about Hackensack meridian on the 23rd, so i decided to finish up my ps and give it a shot. I sent everything in by the 26th, but my transcript took a week or so to reach and took and extra day for verification so my application was received only on the third of april. Will probably be applying next cycle too since none of them have gotten back yet! Will definitely apply to DO and MD! Seriously though this process is hard and I can now empathize with all of you who have been waiting all year!! Hang in there folks!! Great things are definitely in store!! (I hope!!) 🙂
 
I wonder when early interviews will hear back. I dont get why schools dont give out decisions sooner.
 
Mcatmom said:
Mark my words. You eill

Mark my words- you will get into both! The schools are waiting to see the entire applicant pool at this point so no worries. Thank you for responding. When it does happen, which of the two schools is your preference?
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That is such a sweet thing to say! I honestly do not mind not getting in. Many people here have suffered through a gap year and actually deserve these spots more than I do.... I will choose Hackensack only because I live close!!
If I do apply next sem, I will apply early decision to Rowan DO! Just trying to match internal med and then a fellowship for geri here!!! Good luck to you!!
Hope you hear some good news!!
 
Dr Hufflepup said:
That is such a sweet thing to say! I honestly do not mind not getting in. Many people here have suffered through a gap year and actually deserve these spots more than I do.... I will choose Hackensack only because I live close!!
If I do apply next sem, I will apply early decision to Rowan DO! Just trying to match internal med and then a fellowship for geri here!!! Good luck to you!!
Hope you hear some good news!!
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Thank you! Now you've gotten my curiosity. Why would you do early decision to a DO school with those stats? You seem like a nice person.
 
euronsilence said:
I wonder when early interviews will hear back. I dont get why schools dont give out decisions sooner.
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Because medical schools hold the power and they know it. With so many willing applicants, it isn’t too hard to fill a class. With this school specifically, having a 30% tuition discount and the reassurance of essentially matching a Hackensack Meridian residency in the “worst case scenario”....they will take their time regardless of the fact that classes start in 3 months.
 
Montana7000 said:
Because medical schools hold the power and they know it. With so many willing applicants, it isn’t too hard to fill a class. With this school specifically, having a 30% tuition discount and the reassurance of essentially matching a Hackensack Meridian residency in the “worst case scenario”....they will take their time regardless of the fact that classes start in 3 months.
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Yes this is true but with classes starting so soon, I have to imagine that there is at least some anxiety on their part
 
I have LM, 64.2 506 MCAT applied and verified 04-02-2018 with over 1500 hours volunteering including AmeriCorp and have not received anything yet.
 
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