Hi All,
I graduated Carey this past year and matched with my first choice residency program. I figured I would check in because it’s very rare when graduates post on this thread. Because I no longer have any ties to the program I feel I can speak very openly and freely about my experience.
I am doing this because I wish someone told me this information before I applied to med school and while I was in med school and before I applied to residency. I really hope it helps.
PART ONE of this post is new material since I have graduated which I think would be most applicable to current medical students as they approach the residency applications and beyond.
PART TWO is material I’m rebooting verbatim from a post I made while I was a fourth-year student that I hope will help both getting in and navigating your time in medical school. Caveat part two I’m no longer current student and have no idea what goes on campus today. I can only speak from my historical experience.
Ok here we go, if you’re just applying to med school you may want to scroll to part two...
PART ONE:
As I said above I matched my first choice program. I’m going to add this year I am part of my residency’s selection committee so I’ve been fortunate to see the process from the other side; see the interview applicants, read their personal statements, read their CVs, have input into who gets an interview etc.
My class has a whole, however, had a very poor match rate. At one point around match last year I knew the exact specifics but as they are no longer relevant to me I will speak anecdotally from memory while trying to remain as accurate as possible. My goal with this isn’t to argue statistics but merely to paint an overall picture of what the stats mean.
The numbers are +/- a few as I recall but they’re close enough for this conversation.
We matched approximately 56% of the graduating class (~90, however we began with 116 and gained several more along the way). That included both the AOA and ACGME match in total. In other words and again this is approximate 50/90 graduates actually matched.
Running total 50/90 matched
~18 people were successful in the AOA scramble. To be very clear on what that means these people did not match and had to personally call programs to ask if they had open positions they could fill after the match occurred.
2-3 successfully soap ACGME
Running total ~70/90 matched or scrambled/soap which means they are in the residency program without having to reapply.
~15 people were accepted into TRI (traditional rotating internship) programs. Think of this like the residency version of an MBS program. This means they did not match, they did not successfully scramble AOA or soap ACGME and they have added a year to the residency. TRI does not count as your basic three years of residency. A person in a TRI has to reapply to residency the following year while they are doing their internship. Statistically the odds of matching the second time around are very low. TRI interns are often stigmatized.
Running totals: approximately 85/90 found a home. Remember the people who landed a TRI will have to reapply for residency this year.
The rest will either reapply for residency this year or find job doing something else.
That said, many of my friends received their first choice program or a program somewhere at the top of their list because they were well prepared, well informed and realistic.
These numbers are very poor. It’s very evident there is a disconnect between what some of our graduates wanted and reality. There are a lot of ways to help your application and there a lot of ways to sink your application during this process.
There’s a common theme with many applicants who do not match in that is having unrealistic expectations. Often people apply the programs due to perceived status of a program or field.
When you’re entering this process take a very good look at yourself, your scores, your grades, your school, your preceptor evaluations, related research, perceived interest in the field, how well you are liked by your peers and preceptors and how well you interact with others in general. I promise you every one of these factors will come into play during your applications.
Factor all these together and look at the field and the specific programs to which you are applying. Are you shooting for dermatology or orthopedics which are historically extremely selective residency programs? If you’re board (USMLE) scores are in the 95th percentile along with your grades, you have multiple relevant publications, know someone in the field, and all your preceptors and classmates want to take you out and have a beer with you, then you probably have a pretty good shot. If you’re not checking those boxes, the reality is look for less competitive field or you may be applying again next year.
Don’t apply to a field based on perceived prestige or solely based on how much money you think you will make. I know many attending‘s in pediatrics, family medicine, internal medicine who make every bit as much as an orthopedist because they’re intelligent, use their time wisely and know how to maximize their worth.
Apply to a field because you
love the work, because you’re passionate about it, and because you see yourself doing it 30 years from now, otherwise you will be 10 years into your career and hate what you do. The money will work itself out.
Basic tips:
Apply early
Show interest in the field
Be very specific to that field in your personal statement
Have your letters of recommendations specifically talk about that field. Don’t be stupid enough you have your LOR say “he will make a great surgeon” when you’re applying to internal medicine Even if you’re applying to surgery as well.
Don’t wait to take step 2. Plan ahead and get it done early.
Be gracious
Keep in mind your interview begins the moment you set foot in that town until the moment you leave. Every single person you encounter may have an impact on you getting accepted.
Secretaries and program coordinators have huge input and a direct line to the program directors. Irritate them and you have no chance; impressed them and they will speak highly of you.
I can’t believe I have to say this but I’ve seen it happen, don’t be a jerk, don’t brag about yourself and be genuinely interested.
Keep your personal statement to one page. get to the point and keep the readers attention. Most importantly it should relate to why you connect with the field to which you are applying.
Do something meaningful for your CV. Do something of meaning in your community or publish something or at least put something on there that’s interesting (run a marathon, climb a mountain, bungee jump over the moon whatever just make it memorable) No one cares that you were third vice chair in your med school club X. Don’t get me wrong, it’s very good to show specific interest in the club to the field you’re applying but don’t make that the centerpiece of your application.
Be thoughtful after your interview and send a thank you card or a thank you email to everyone who interviewed you, the program director, the program coordinator. Trust me it goes a long way.
PART TWO
There have been many repeat questions from new interviewees or newly accepted students. I am going to partially recycle a post I made a few months back with a lot of new updates and info. I have tried to make this post easy to scroll through
its crazy long, I addedheadings by timeline year by year as follows:
Q&A – short and to the point
Premed - detailed
OMS1- detailed
OMS2- detailed
OMS3- detailed
OMS4 - detailed
I have been as unbiased as I can, based on my experience, successes and mistakes. I truly wish you all the best.
Context: This is my SDN swansong. I am a fourth year and recently matched my first-choice program. It felt REALLY GOOD to see DO next to my name in the residency contract! Here is my experience and perspective.
Premed/OMS1 Q&A
Carey vs MD schools?
MD 100% see premed below.
Carey vs Caribbean schools?
Carey 100% see premed below.
Carey vs other DO schools?
Too much arguing on this topic on this thread. ACGME doesn’t care; seriously they don’t care if you’re from Carey or Touro, PCOM, TCOM, ZCOM, QCOM or wherever, unless the program is located by the specific DO school and they interact with the students on rotation.
No ACGME program where I interviewed knew anything about Carey good or bad. They lumped all DO schools into the same general category and don’t know enough about them to stratify schools. See last few paragraphs in premed below.
Is Carey geared towards primary care?
Absolutely, its in the mission statement.
Is the attendance policy excessive?
Yes, according to most, but its there. Work around it.
Can I do 4th year away rotations away or in Hattiesburg?
Yes, and yes, but you need to plan them yourself. See OMS4 above
Best part about Carey?
Students 100%, also the newer, younger faculty seems to be pretty invested in the students.
Worst part?
Red tape all 4 years.
Best (most relevant to intended goal) educational aspect of Carey?
COMLEX level 2 PE prep.
Worst?
USMLE 1 or 2 anything
What is OMS1 or 2 like?
Ask an OMS1 or 2, its changed dramatically since my class.
Can I become a great Doctor after graduating Carey?
100%
OMS2-4 Q&A
Is there OMT work in OMS3 and 4?
Yes, to the very last OMS4 rotation.
Do I have to perform OMT on Rotations?
No
Should I take the USMLE?
Yes, if you want anything in ACGME other than FM or IM.
Is there an MD bias?
Not that I ever saw. Competent is competent. This seems to be a premed construct.
ACGME or AOA?
If you are class of 2019, IMO 100% ACGME if you can, IMO.
2020, this is a problem that will not exist, but the competition will no doubt increase because many AOA spots are going by the wayside.
Will I get much support with my application to residency?
No. I believe it will improve in the next few years though.
Has attending Carey helped or hurt my match?
UGH. I, along with many are very happy with match, but many are not. See OMS4 paragraphs below.
What about uber competitive specialties ex. ENT, derm etc.?
Unlikely based on past stats. If you want Derm, etc. go to a top 40 NIH funded MD school, kill the boards AND have a family member or close friend in that field. They are crazy hard to get no matter where you go!
Based on this year, if you apply from here 95%+ of you will get FM, IM, Peds, Psych, OB, ER, Gen Surg, Rads, Gas in that or similar order. There were a couple outliers this year, but this is what you can expect.
Will it help my match chances to apply in my home state?
Yes 100%
What is the 2018 placement / match rate this year?
Placement rate and match rate are vastly different things. Placement also includes AOA scramble, ACGME SOAP and post SOAP AOA empty spots, TRIs etc.
Placement rate TBD.
AOA match by school link
2018 Summary by College
Those numbers are convoluted, what does the above link mean?
Yep, that’s AOA. Basically, WCU matched similarly to the other DO schools in the AOA match.
What was the 2018 ACGME match rate?
Anecdotal at this point, nothing released by the school yet.
NRMP match link
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Results-and-Data-SMS-2018.pdf
What can I do to have the best match from Carey?
Work hard, make connections, do well on boards, be realistic about your field based on stats,
be really cool to your attendings, residents, and other med students on rotations and interviews. Don’t brown nose or act like you know more than you do, it irritates PDs and attendings. Be willing to learn from anyone.
Detailed Info by year:
No offense meant, but you truly have no idea yet. Knowing undergard or grad level biochem and cell bio is a tiny fraction of med school. This is likely the single biggest decision of your life which will impact you for the next 30+ years. Listen to a wide array of people who have been through it and plan accordingly. There is a spectrum of people in med school and more specifically at Carey ranging from completely miserable to reasonably content.
I don’t remember anyone doing backflips down the hall in OMS1 or 2.
OMS3 is pretty good
4th year is awesome!
Getting in: Take all the interviews you can until you get an acceptance (or 2), then you can afford to be choosey. IMO
I would NOT forego an acceptance ANYWHERE to do an MBS or the like. There is no point in adding a year of school, debt etc. to maybe have a shot at a place you may or may not like better. This process is a grind; take the bird in hand.
Getting into Carey: If you get an interview you have a great chance to be accepted unless you completely blow the interview which is very unlikely If you are waitlisted, hang in there, you still have a shot. In my first year they added people from the list until the second day of classes.
Carey vs other DO schools vs MD vs Caribbean (classic SDN debate):
In truth I
hated the first two preclinical years at Carey, there are plenty of specifics as to why by other students in this thread. After two years of rotations / residency interviews meeting other DO, MD, and IMG grads, no one has told me their first two years of med school were fantastic. Many if not most of the things that infuriate students at Carey exist at the other DO schools as well.
I had several options. I chose Carey because of the students. Honestly, if I did not have the friends I made at Carey, med school would have been a lot harder. There are gunners at every school, but I think we have fewer than most.
RE: Experiences of My MD friends
Less frustration in the preclinical years
Better environment to succeed on the boards. That statement is not speculative, I have seen course materials and syllabi from friends, and it is better. MD programs have had more time to ferret out things that do not benefit the students and typically are set in established academic environments, whereas DO schools are almost universally newer and still figuring out what works. Also, keep in mind we spend 20%+ of our time on OMT material which never appears on USMLE, theoretically giving them less material to study in the same time frame.
Better opportunities to match in highly competitive fields-see above + agreements with academic hospital systems, more help from admin, advisors, match stats, connections, etc.
MD students generally have less hands-on experience in years 3-4 because there are multiple layers of students, interns, residents, fellows, etc. above them getting in on procedures and patient care.
I believe the relationships a student can make with a preceptor at Carey is one of the better selling points of the school. My LORs to ERAS were outstanding, and even better my preceptors discussed them with me prior to submission. Without question, they opened doors for me to residency interviews I may have not had if I only worked with residents and had cookie cutter fill in the blank LORs.
The IMG grads (Caribbean or elsewhere) I have met have a rough go all around. DON’T DO IT UNLESS YOU HAVE NO OTHER OPTION!
They are basically on their own and self-study for the first two years and then struggle to get rotations in the U.S. I met an IMG MD at one of my interviews who was in her third application cycle and working as a nurse to pay loans until she found a residency. Access to good preceptors is extremely important along with a chance at an AI (acting internship) to get the attention of a specific program. The students in the Caribbean are encouraged to apply to 150-250 programs to try and get a residency spot. Again, not speculation but information offered by a Ross grad during an interview dinner.
The IMGs I know lumped U.S. grads together, MD and DO when they compared their experience to ours.
Goal: make it unscathed to OMS2.
Don’t get caught up in the med school frenzy, politics or the like. There is plenty of time for you to worry about residency, boards etc. Grind, study your power points, do as well as you can in class to lay a framework of knowledge onto which you will add to over the next 2 years. There are many things which will infuriate you but don’t let it get to you. Getting angry with things admin does will not help you nor will it change their outlook or position. It’s going to bring you down and your relationships with your studies, family, SOs, and friends will suffer if you’re irritated from things beyond your control. You are here; suck it up and remember you will soon be a doctor. Things will get better, I promise.
Enjoy your summer, maybe do some research if you can.
Goal: don’t get tripped up by a class and work hard for Step/Level 1
You know how the classes work by now. Mind your attendance so you don’t fail but do what is best for your board studies. If you don’t learn from them in class, duck out and make better use of your time (while still maintaining 80%). Use your most precious commodity (time) wisely. Don’t sit back in class playing games or watching Netflix and then complain about barely passing or poor board scores. You will regret it at match time. Keep grinding and do things outside of school when you can to preserve your sanity.
UFAP (uworld first aid pathoma) or something similar. Pick a boards program and stick with it. Everybody and their brother is going to try and sell you something this year, emails, classmates trying to rep a program for a discount, sales people coming to school, you will see it all. Its all expensive. Everyone learns in their own way, looking back I used too many resources and spread myself too thin among them. I probably could have squeezed out more points by sticking with the tried and true resources. Keep in mind to do COMLEX style questions as well. It is a terribly written, vague exam but you MUST pass it.
Make sure you pass the COMSAE!!! It will mess up your study schedule if you don’t. They will probably force you to take some type of school sponsored course which is unlikely to help you as an individual. Be strategic about when you are taking step/level 1.
Begin to think about a field of interest but don’t fixate because it may change once you get into rotations.
Goal: Shine on rotations and get those LORs, and work hard for step 2
There are many great resources for you, onlinemeded is fantastic, FA
Figure out what you want to do when you grow up and explore that field with your electives.
MAKE CONNECTIONS where you can, it’s going to get real, and very soon. Get those VSAS apps out ASAP. The AI spots fill up fast (don’t call it an “audition rotation”, It makes you sound less informed on how the system works). ACGME calls it acting internship (AI) or externship or sub-intership (Sub-I). There are also many good non-VSAS programs including FGH in Hattiesburg. In either case book the AI early.
Boards
Remember what worked or didn’t work for you on step/level 1. No reason to reinvent the wheel. And yes, COMLEX 2 is also terribly written.
Remember you must come back for OMT or OSCE which will take a big chunk away from step/level 2 studies. Plan and schedule accordingly.
The PE: its easy. Don’t stress it. If you have done well on your rotations, it will be fine. Learn how to craft a good SOAP note, you are going to need it for many years to come.
Probably the best thing Carey does is prep you for the PE. Its shockingly similar. A+ for them on this one.
Get AIs and WORK HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cannot stress this enough. If you are borderline on paper but kill the rotation. it may be enough to get you that residency spot. If you are great on paper but flub the rotation, you are done. Anecdotally, I have seen it work both ways.
Be fully aware of what you will need for your applications, ex. SLOEs for EM are due by September 15th and plan ahead.
Get your application into ERAS on time!!!The Dean’s letter (or MPSE) comes out in October. Don’t wait for it. Most of your interviews will be booked long before it comes out if you are on your game.
Recognize your strengths and weaknesses and
be realistic about your chances; seriously, you need to do this. Are you mediocre or not so great on paper? Do you get under people’s skin? Are your preceptor reviews less than stellar?
Most people who matched in my class did this. Many people who did not match were often unrealistic with their chances into their applied field or program, conversely, there were a few in our class who were tailor made for their field and applied appropriately and unfortunately, it didn’t work out for them. That’s not to say don’t shoot for the moon but have a plan B just in case. There are alternative paths if you do not match ex. TRI.
Remember that when you get to this point it is a job. Refer to the program director survey on the ACGME website to see what is important in obtaining a residency.
Among ALL specialties factors and importance for ranking applicants post interview # 1-4 have nothing to do with scores/ class rank (link below). I am by no means diminishing the importance of board scores. They are very important, and extremely important for a highly competitive specialty. But, keep in mind PD (program directors), faculty and residents want to know if they can work with you for long hours under high stress for 3-5 years straight. Being a decent and modest student/ person and having genuine interest in the field will serve you well in your journey.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf
Good luck to all!
