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Has anyone heard how many people they alternate list and how many are usually picked up?
 
minn#4 said:
Has anyone heard how many people they alternate list and how many are usually picked up?
Click to expand...
We're told during interview day that it varies. One year they pulled 60+ students, and the year after about 4 students. It totally depends on whether those admitted who are at MSU CHM wish to go there
- correct me if I am wrong
 
Has anyone been taken off hold in January yet and invited to interview?
 
So my app was forwarded for pre-lim review on 9/1 and I've yet to receive a status update to "invite to interview", "preliminary rejection", or "hold before interview decision". This was the last email I got from them to date.

Does anyone know what this means? Anyone experienced this too? Is no news good news here or is this a silent/soft R in the making lol?

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Can anyone find the match results from this school... I can’t find it anywhere
 
Does anyone know if those who interviewed 12/2 are for sure getting their decisions by tomorrow or is it possible that they pushed some of our decisions back to Feb?
 
Quick question. In the acceptance email they sent, it said we would get to submit a form requesting our preference for the EL/GR location but my campus assignment page already has two options for me to pick and submit. Does everyone have this? And do we need to do anything about it until we get the campus preference form in April?
 
Anyone interviewing on the 27th?


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netflix007 said:
Can any current students speak about the pros and cons of the program?
Click to expand...

This is a fairly broad question - is there anything specific that you'd like to know about? Pros and Cons can vary a lot from person to person. I've been writing this up for a few days because of time, but since I've gotten several PMs I figured I'd address this in one post. I'm going to start with the negatives first because I want to leave you feeling positive about this school - I genuinely would not trade my education here for anything, even if it seems like I'm a bit salty.

**** I added a couple things to the original post

Negatives:

The main things that come to mind have very little to do with the education/school itself, and mostly to do with the research/curriculum faculty that have their fingers in everything we do. In pieces these will seem like minor problems, but they quickly add up and it becomes death by 1000 cuts with all the administrative/accreditation box checking and curricular requirements under study.

What do I mean by this:
- Lots and lots and lots fluff, oh my god so much fluff. You will have a "portfolio" where you have certain essays or online tests, satisfaction surveys, EPAs, online evaluations yada yada that you have to complete and submit at the end of every semester. Most of it being completely pointless "did you do it" busy work. And you better make sure you turn it in on time because or we'll write you up for unprofessionalism even though we set due date times differently so that some might be 8:00 AM on friday and others at 5:00 PM that same day. Not to mention some really ridiculous class meetings we have to attend that very quickly become vent sessions for the students displeased with faculty responses to their criticisms (more on this below) . At the end of the day, you just feel so innudated and done with all this not useful crap. Time will become your greatest commodity in school, and a lot of these things become the quintisential "why the hell am I wasting my time with this" situation, and you just want to go home and study. I bet its this way at a lot of places though so take this with a grain of salt.

- The curriculum faculty (I.e. those in charge of what we do, not how or whom delivers it) can be very demeaning, especially during 1st and 2nd year. A lot of this comes from criticisms and feedback given by students who feel an immense amount of defensiveness in return. As we are test subjects for a budding new curricular style (CHM is one of ten doing this in the US), large changes cannot be made without completely changing/skewing their data. What I'm saying is, I'm sure there is an accrewed list of changes for version 2.0 of the SDC after 5 years. From a research stand point, this makes total sense, you cannot compare year on year data with how the teaching system goes if you change it all the time. But as a student you will feel a bit like guinea pigs and you'll just have to get used to it. I don't want to scare anyone, sound alarmist, or make it seem like they don't listen to the students - they definitely do with many of the smaller changes, and you'll find there are a few faculty champions that really go out to bat for the students and find some of the SDC specifics completely stupid. I will say that the curriculum is in a MUCH much better place than it was when the first class went through.

- An example of fluff- During 1st and 2nd year you will have a weekly SIM class where you work with standardized patients. It's kind of like rotations from elementry school. Some of them are didactic like - they'll have you practicing some technique or teaching you something. Since the curriculum is so new, a lot of these were "experimental", trying them out on us to see how we did with them, liked them, useful or not kind of stuff. We would do a lot of these, and then turn around 3rd year and the "pilot" projects they had us do previously, were now fully integrated components for the didactic portions (ASK) in your 3rd year - be damned that we had already done them. We all go this weird sense of Deja Vu and realized we'd done this 3 hour lecture or experience last year. Stuff like this happens alll the time.

Some other negatives:
- Finding research - I mentioned MSU has a lot going on and a lot more in the future, however it can be hard to actually get your foot in the door. We are no longer allowed to email professors or stop by and ask - we have to go through the research office that "pairs" us because some students several years ago pissed off a couple PIs after they stopped showing up. You will eventually get something in 2nd semester.

- Because of some students not going to their clinic, the faculty has become very hands on and big brothery with attendance. You're only alloted one sick day per semester or you have to make up the time. If you miss an hour long class meeting, you will have a make up essay that will probably take you 2-3 hours to do. I felt like I was treated as a Child for much of 1st and 2nd year, and that was hard coming from grad school which traditionall has a very laissez-faire attitude and entrusts you to be professional and get your **** done.

- **** Anatomy/Neuroanatomy/Histopathology - these are important components for ALL medical students. You really need to learn your anatomy well enough so that when you go back during step studying it isn't completely difficult or disastrous. There are some things that flipped class room works really really well for, but unfortunately, anatomy/histo are not part of that group. What should be lecture/hands on guided learning with faculty in the cadaver lab becomes a scavenger hunt where you have a copy of netters and faculty that will let you flounder for 15 minutes finding a simple structure before you venture to ask faculty for help and get told a cryptic hint and told you need to spend another 10 minutes looking for it. Youll slowly walk away running through the checklist in your mind of the 60 other structures for todays lecture that you still have to find, even though you only get an hour. Same goes for neuroanatomy, you CANNOT blindly learn neuro, you need a lecturer not just because its difficult, but because learning neuro is very much learning a new language. I believe this is slowly changing though

- **** Campuses - It will feel like the administration definitely favors GR. It's just the way it goes.

- **** As completely sad and tragic as it is, be ready to get asked about the Nassar case and some of the sexual harassment that happened at COM, mostly by patients. I had several interactions in my 1st year where patient's met me with "Oh...you're from THAT school? I'd prefer you not to be here". This is a small small point though, and it has waned extensively as time continues to pass. At the same time, I'd feel remiss to not mention this to you because it's important and god knows the faculty wont want to talk about it. That said, the college has completely restructured itself and A LOT of safeguards have been taken to prevent this from ever happening again.


Strengths.

Anecdotally, I think the biggest draw of our program are how not-stressed out we are as students. They made a joke when I was interviewing that their students in the new curriculum were some of the least stressed in the country, and obviously that changes when everyone hits january of 2nd year, but they weren't kidding. Compared to us, the DO students seem wayyyy more stressed out. Why? Because thye have blocks, and exams at the end of every blocks. For us, everything is literally based on taking 200 question NBME progress tests. You have to get a 25%, and most of the class hit that only 1 month into school, and if you fail, everyone takes another one 2 months later with the same benchmark. Obviously you have to show up to class and small group prepared but you literally don't have to spend a single bit of time using their "curriculum" if you don't want to, and just BnB UFAPs your way through so long as you're passing those NBMEs every time. I think this flexibility in letting me study the way I want has been the greatest part of CHM.

The other real positive is there is a bit of every kind of medical school here, and you can really shape how you want your education to go. This is my favorite part. To talk about a few:

- Acute care medicine and EM? Head to Lansing or Flint for 3 and 4. Lansing has the highest number of blunt trauma incidents in the state and is where EM's ACEP was founded. Flint is.....Flint - Hurley is one of THE knife and gun clubs in the country, and fights with Detroit receiving for the state title on that one.

- Academic medicine/specific subspecialties/pediatric dematoneurooncological reconstructive surgery? Head to GR for year 3 and 4 - they're are literally dumping money into research at this point, and I'd be suprised if CHM didn't become a strong research institution in the next 5-10 years.

- Medicine for the underserved or public health? Dr. Mona Hanna Attisha awaits you in Flint. ***** Likewise, Lansing has the Ingham county health department which has some truly 1st class physicians (And one OB/Gyn in particular) with a great patient population to learn from. The Care Free clinic there is also something very unique.

- LGBTQ medicine? Lansing has a lot going on with this as of recent with some very active 2nd and 3rd years that have gotten this started. *****I think this is actually something very unique to CHM that I havent seen happening at many other schools. We REALLY care about making sure you learn how to treat and interact with the LGBTQ community, and you'll have a lot of experiences in your SIM classes for this. They also encourage to call out and teach other physicians/health professionals in our communities.

- Rural medicine? You'll head to Traverse City (One of life and leisure magazines Top 10 beach towns in the country 😉 ), Midland, or Marquette. The website makes it sound like these are all different certificate programs, but they're the same. ***** Going to one of these communities or joining the certificate programs also doesn't force you into Rural medicine for ever, you can still do what ever you want. It's just a great way to come to a smaller campus with far less students, more one on one with preceptors and generally learn about rural public health. Rural medicine is interestingly a far larger underserved population than the inner city populations, we just dont talk about it much nationally.

- Want some Surgery? You'll head to.........Traverse City, Midland, or Marquette with the rural kids. Why? Because you'll be the ONLY student on a service with ZERO residents, ZERO fellows, just you and an attending where you will first assist on ALMOST EVERYTHING. If you're worried about the typical experience for gen surg to prepare you for residency, we send you to GR/EL for an elective to make sure you have that side of the rotation too, but at least you're not busting your ass to study for a shelf at that point.

-***** Psych? Ohhhh buddy, come up north with the rural kids and you'll be drowned in Psych. One of the psych docs I heard up there has a waitlist of future appointments set 6-8 months out right now.

- **** Comunity hospital/medicine? If you want just that good old fashioned community hospital feel, Southfield and Lansing have that in spades. They really are great teaching systems and theres a lot of folks to learn from.

Other small stuff:
- We have our own student run, faculty supported Journal where we publish primary literature from medical students around the country (MSRJ)
- You feel REALLY well prepared by the time you enter 3rd year clerkships. Several attendings noted how impressed they were with us on rotations versus the old curriculum students, and ESPECIALLY vs. the COM students that also rotate at many of our hospitals.
- Lots and lots of student orgs - SNMA is very active at our school.
- I'd say we have a very diverse class.
- Multi system community medical school - since we have so so many hospitals considered "Home" institutions, if your community doesnt have a specialty/elective of interest, we'll get you to one that does with ease. And they'll probably have housing lined up for you too.

I'm not sure I would have done as well at another school and have really enjoyed my time. I had a few acceptances and I'd still choose this school again.
 
Last edited:
DemNeurons said:
This is a fairly broad question - is there anything specific that you'd like to know about? Pros and Cons can vary a lot from person to person. I've been writing this up for a few days because of time, but since I've gotten several PMs I figured I'd address this in one post. I'm going to start with the negatives first, because I want to leave you feeling positive about this school - I generally wouldn't trade my education here for anything even if it seems like I'm a bit salty.

Negatives:

The main things that come to mind have very little to do with the education/school itself, and mostly to do with the research/curriculum faculty that have their fingers in everything we do. In pieces they're very minor problems, but it quickly becomes death by 1000 cuts with all the administrative/accreditation box checking and curricular requirements under study.

What do I mean by this:
- Lots and lots and lots fluff, oh my god so much fluff. You will have a "portfolio" where you have certain essays or online tests you have to complete and submit, and its just all stupid busy work. ILPs, patient satisfaction surveys, EPAs. Not to mention some really ridiculous class meetings we have to attend. YOu just feel a little innudated with random, not useful crap that you feel like you just want to get out and go study have the time. I bet its this way at a lot of places though.

- The curriculum faculty (I.e. those in charge of what we do, not how or whom delivers it) can be very demeaning, especially during 1st and 2nd year. A lot of this comes from criticisms and feedback given by students who feel an immense amount of defensiveness in return. As we are test subjects for a budding new curricular style (CHM is one of ten doing this in the US), large changes cannot be made without completely changing/skewing their data. What I'm saying is i'm sure they have a list acrewed for version 2.0 of the SDC after 5 years. From a research stand point, this makes total sense, but as a student you will feel a bit like guinea pigs. I don't want to scare anyone, sound alarmist, or make it seem like they don't listen to the students - they definitely do, and the curriculum is in a MUCH much better place than it was when the first class went through.

- An example - During 1st and 2nd year you will have a weekly SIM class where you work with standardized patients. It's kind of like rotations from elementry school. Some of them are didactic like - they'll have you practicing some technique or teaching you something. Since the curriculum is so new, a lot of these were "experimental", trying them out on us to see how we did with them, liked them, useful or not kind of stuff. We would do a lot of these, and then turn around 3rd year and the "pilot" projects they had us do, were full integrated into the curriculum for all 3rd years during their mandatory didactics. We all go tthis weird Deja Vu and realized we'd already done this 3 hour lecture or project last year. Stuff like this happens alll the time.

Some other negatives:
- Finding research - I mentioned MSU has a lot going on and a lot more in the future, however it can be hard to actually get your foot in the door. We are no longer allowed to email professors or stop by and ask - we have to go through the research office that "pairs" us because some students several years ago pissed off a couple PIs after they stopped showing up. You will eventually get something in 2nd semester.

- Because of some students not going to their clinic, the faculty has become very hands on and big brothery with attendance. You're only alloted one sick day per semester or you have to make up the time. If you miss an hour long class meeting, you will have a make up essay that will probably take you 2-3 hours to do. I felt like I was treated as a Child for much of 1st and 2nd year, and that was hard coming from grad school which traditionall has a very laissez-faire attitude and entrusts you to be professional and get your **** done.



Strengths.

Anecdotally, I think the biggest draw of our program are how not-stressed out we are as students. They made a joke when I was interviewing that their students in the new curriculum were some of the least stressed in the country, and obviously that changes when everyone hits january of 2nd year, but they weren't kidding. Compared to us, the DO students seem wayyyy more stressed out. Why? Because thye have blocks, and exams at the end of every blocks. For us, everything is literally based on taking 200 question NBME progress tests. You have to get a 25%, and most of the class hit that only 1 month into school, and if you fail, everyone takes another one 2 months later with the same benchmark. Obviously you have to show up to class and small group prepared but you literally don't have to spend a single bit of time using their "curriculum" if you don't want to, and just BnB UFAPs your way through so long as you're passing those NBMEs every time. I think this flexibility in letting me study the way I want has been the greatest part of CHM.

The other real positive is there is a bit of every kind of medical school here, and you can really shape how you want your education to go. This is my favorite part. To talk about a few:

- Acute care medicine and EM? Head to Lansing or Flint for 3 and 4. Lansing has the highest number of blunt trauma incidents in the state and is where EM's ACEP was founded. Flint is.....Flint - Hurley is one of THE knife and gun clubs in the country, and fights with Detroit receiving for the state title on that one.

- Academic medicine/specific subspecialties/pediatric dematoneurooncological reconstructive surgery? Head to GR for year 3 and 4 - they're are literally dumping money into research at this point, and I'd be suprised if CHM didn't become a strong research institution in the next 5-10 years.

- Medicine for the underserved or public health? Dr. Mona Hanna Attisha awaits you in Flint.

- LGBTQ medicine? Lansing has a lot going on with this as of recent.

- Rural medicine? You'll head to Traverse City (One of life and leisure magazines Top 10 beach towns in the country 😉 ), Midland, or Marquette. The website makes it sound like these are all different certificate programs, but they're the same.

- Want some Surgery? You'll head to.........Traverse City, Midland, or Marquette with the rural kids. Why? Because you'll be the ONLY student on a service with ZERO residents, ZERO fellows, just you and an attending where you will first assist on ALMOST EVERYTHING. If you're worried about the typical experience for gen surg to prepare you for residency, we send you to GR/EL for an elective to make sure you have that side of the rotation too, but at least you're not busting your ass to study for a shelf at that point.

Other small stuff:
- We have our own student run, faculty supported Journal where we publish primary literature from medical students around the country (MSRJ)
- You feel REALLY well prepared by the time you enter 3rd year clerkships. Several attendings noted how impressed they were with us on rotations versus the old curriculum students, and ESPECIALLY vs. the COM students that also rotate at many of our hospitals.
- Lots and lots of student orgs - SNMA is very active at our school.
- I'd say we have a very diverse class.

I'm not sure I would have done as well at another school and have really enjoyed my time. I had a few acceptances and I'd still choose this school again.
Click to expand...

Amazing write-up, I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I say thank you so much for spending the time writing this.

As someone that absolutely fell in love with MSUCHM, but is afraid of the flipped classroom type curriculum and the majority online curriculum (basically the entire curriculum lol) due to not learning the best that way because of flipped classroom courses I've taken in undergrad. Are these feelings justified and I should steer away? Or is it completely different at MSUCHM
 
DemNeurons said:
This is a fairly broad question - is there anything specific that you'd like to know about? Pros and Cons can vary a lot from person to person. I've been writing this up for a few days because of time, but since I've gotten several PMs I figured I'd address this in one post. I'm going to start with the negatives first, because I want to leave you feeling positive about this school - I generally wouldn't trade my education here for anything even if it seems like I'm a bit salty.
Click to expand...
You covered everything and more than I could ask for, thank you so so much for taking the time out of your busy ass day to write this up, it’s greatly appreciated.
 
DemNeurons said:
This is a fairly broad question - is there anything specific that you'd like to know about? Pros and Cons can vary a lot from person to person. I've been writing this up for a few days because of time, but since I've gotten several PMs I figured I'd address this in one post. I'm going to start with the negatives first, because I want to leave you feeling positive about this school - I generally wouldn't trade my education here for anything even if it seems like I'm a bit salty.

Negatives:

The main things that come to mind have very little to do with the education/school itself, and mostly to do with the research/curriculum faculty that have their fingers in everything we do. In pieces they're very minor problems, but it quickly becomes death by 1000 cuts with all the administrative/accreditation box checking and curricular requirements under study.

What do I mean by this:
- Lots and lots and lots fluff, oh my god so much fluff. You will have a "portfolio" where you have certain essays or online tests you have to complete and submit, and its just all stupid busy work. ILPs, patient satisfaction surveys, EPAs. Not to mention some really ridiculous class meetings we have to attend. YOu just feel a little innudated with random, not useful crap that you feel like you just want to get out and go study have the time. I bet its this way at a lot of places though.

- The curriculum faculty (I.e. those in charge of what we do, not how or whom delivers it) can be very demeaning, especially during 1st and 2nd year. A lot of this comes from criticisms and feedback given by students who feel an immense amount of defensiveness in return. As we are test subjects for a budding new curricular style (CHM is one of ten doing this in the US), large changes cannot be made without completely changing/skewing their data. What I'm saying is i'm sure they have a list acrewed for version 2.0 of the SDC after 5 years. From a research stand point, this makes total sense, but as a student you will feel a bit like guinea pigs. I don't want to scare anyone, sound alarmist, or make it seem like they don't listen to the students - they definitely do, and the curriculum is in a MUCH much better place than it was when the first class went through.

- An example - During 1st and 2nd year you will have a weekly SIM class where you work with standardized patients. It's kind of like rotations from elementry school. Some of them are didactic like - they'll have you practicing some technique or teaching you something. Since the curriculum is so new, a lot of these were "experimental", trying them out on us to see how we did with them, liked them, useful or not kind of stuff. We would do a lot of these, and then turn around 3rd year and the "pilot" projects they had us do, were full integrated into the curriculum for all 3rd years during their mandatory didactics. We all go tthis weird Deja Vu and realized we'd already done this 3 hour lecture or project last year. Stuff like this happens alll the time.

Some other negatives:
- Finding research - I mentioned MSU has a lot going on and a lot more in the future, however it can be hard to actually get your foot in the door. We are no longer allowed to email professors or stop by and ask - we have to go through the research office that "pairs" us because some students several years ago pissed off a couple PIs after they stopped showing up. You will eventually get something in 2nd semester.

- Because of some students not going to their clinic, the faculty has become very hands on and big brothery with attendance. You're only alloted one sick day per semester or you have to make up the time. If you miss an hour long class meeting, you will have a make up essay that will probably take you 2-3 hours to do. I felt like I was treated as a Child for much of 1st and 2nd year, and that was hard coming from grad school which traditionall has a very laissez-faire attitude and entrusts you to be professional and get your **** done.



Strengths.

Anecdotally, I think the biggest draw of our program are how not-stressed out we are as students. They made a joke when I was interviewing that their students in the new curriculum were some of the least stressed in the country, and obviously that changes when everyone hits january of 2nd year, but they weren't kidding. Compared to us, the DO students seem wayyyy more stressed out. Why? Because thye have blocks, and exams at the end of every blocks. For us, everything is literally based on taking 200 question NBME progress tests. You have to get a 25%, and most of the class hit that only 1 month into school, and if you fail, everyone takes another one 2 months later with the same benchmark. Obviously you have to show up to class and small group prepared but you literally don't have to spend a single bit of time using their "curriculum" if you don't want to, and just BnB UFAPs your way through so long as you're passing those NBMEs every time. I think this flexibility in letting me study the way I want has been the greatest part of CHM.

The other real positive is there is a bit of every kind of medical school here, and you can really shape how you want your education to go. This is my favorite part. To talk about a few:

- Acute care medicine and EM? Head to Lansing or Flint for 3 and 4. Lansing has the highest number of blunt trauma incidents in the state and is where EM's ACEP was founded. Flint is.....Flint - Hurley is one of THE knife and gun clubs in the country, and fights with Detroit receiving for the state title on that one.

- Academic medicine/specific subspecialties/pediatric dematoneurooncological reconstructive surgery? Head to GR for year 3 and 4 - they're are literally dumping money into research at this point, and I'd be suprised if CHM didn't become a strong research institution in the next 5-10 years.

- Medicine for the underserved or public health? Dr. Mona Hanna Attisha awaits you in Flint.

- LGBTQ medicine? Lansing has a lot going on with this as of recent.

- Rural medicine? You'll head to Traverse City (One of life and leisure magazines Top 10 beach towns in the country 😉 ), Midland, or Marquette. The website makes it sound like these are all different certificate programs, but they're the same.

- Want some Surgery? You'll head to.........Traverse City, Midland, or Marquette with the rural kids. Why? Because you'll be the ONLY student on a service with ZERO residents, ZERO fellows, just you and an attending where you will first assist on ALMOST EVERYTHING. If you're worried about the typical experience for gen surg to prepare you for residency, we send you to GR/EL for an elective to make sure you have that side of the rotation too, but at least you're not busting your ass to study for a shelf at that point.

Other small stuff:
- We have our own student run, faculty supported Journal where we publish primary literature from medical students around the country (MSRJ)
- You feel REALLY well prepared by the time you enter 3rd year clerkships. Several attendings noted how impressed they were with us on rotations versus the old curriculum students, and ESPECIALLY vs. the COM students that also rotate at many of our hospitals.
- Lots and lots of student orgs - SNMA is very active at our school.
- I'd say we have a very diverse class.

I'm not sure I would have done as well at another school and have really enjoyed my time. I had a few acceptances and I'd still choose this school again.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for the write up. It sounds like you begin studying for Step 1 starting basically the first semester of 1st year is this correct? how effective do you think it is to just study toward the test as oppose to learning topics as a whole as far as knowing you're stuff as a doc.
 
Jappa said:
Amazing write-up, I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I say thank you so much for spending the time writing this.

As someone that absolutely fell in love with MSUCHM, but is afraid of the flipped classroom type curriculum and the majority online curriculum (basically the entire curriculum lol) due to not learning the best that way because of flipped classroom courses I've taken in undergrad. Are these feelings justified and I should steer away? Or is it completely different at MSUCHM
Click to expand...

I'm glad you've brought this up because its a huge point and i completely forgot about it originally. I'll start by saying I totally understand your reservations with flipped classrooms. The grad program I attended actually had a lot of faculty studying science education and delivery vs. hard science and I TAd in one of them. It was a such a **** show - none of the students were ready for it, it's hard to have one out of your 4-5 classes be like this, and everyone is used to being "taught", and typically if flipped is attempted its usually one of the first times or recently just started - in that regard, you're justified - but CHM is very very different. I'll try to be brief.

Everyone's biggest concern was that we had only 1 big lecture a week - how the hell are we going to learn all this stuff without lectures. The thing is, you slowly adapt and realize just how inneficient lectures are at getting through the material. You might spend 2 hours of a lecture with a bumbling professor going over JUST Insulin, or two hours on ALL the diabetes drugs with BnB and a perusing of Robbins, 20 questions of UWorld, some Anki, and still have time to go make a PB&J if you're feeling snacky from all the efficiency. The thing is, the material in medical school, save for a few topics, is NOT conceptually difficult to grasp - there's just A LOT of it. You don't need someone to read off of slides for two hours when you can do that yourself. An example - Learning to read EKGs. You can read about them and watch some videos at home probably from someone who is a far better lecturer than the tired disgruntled 60 yo cardiologist that drew the short straw that day. This way, you go into "lecture", have the course pack printed out and just start doing it. If you get stuck, theres like 15 faculty members perusing the lecture hall to show you how you messed up, or you ask your peers. You compare that to learning at school and having to practice at home with no one to ask questions of when you get stuck.

You get so used to this system and appreciative of it that when you start intercessions in the spring its a culture shock of how terrible lectures really are. Almost everyone would fall disinterested, put on headphones and do UWorld or Anki because they're so used to flipped classrooms that they already went over it the night before. Your nights become your time to read and watch online lectures and your days become time to actively recall and work with the material. Everyone complained there werent enough lectures because we were used to that, then they gave us lectures galore for 6 hours a day and then everyone complained about that and wanted less of them, and then it stayed that way.

I honest to god could never go back to a traditional lecture based curriculum and not bang my head against the desk out of sheer boredom. You become such an efficient self directed learner very quickly and you won't be able to go back - even the die hard lecture kids. Lectures are half the information in twice the time.


netflix007 said:
You covered everything and more than I could ask for, thank you so so much for taking the time out of your busy ass day to write this up, it’s greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Not a problem! Happy to offer some insight.

dreamer1994 said:
Thanks so much for the write up. It sounds like you begin studying for Step 1 starting basically the first semester of 1st year is this correct? how effective do you think it is to just study toward the test as oppose to learning topics as a whole as far as knowing you're stuff as a doc.
Click to expand...

I'm going to be very honest with you because I think this is becoming a common theme around the country with how popular BnB/Pathoma/Anki have become. Passing but also doing well on that test single most important thing for you as a 1st and 2nd year. I don't care what curricular faculty say, it really is this simple. Academic medicine is in it's only little bubble universe about this, but as soon as you get to year 3-4, the only things that matter are your Steps, your shelfs, and your letters. You build your library in year 1-2, you start learning how to pull from that library in 3-4, and then residency is where you actually learn how to be a doctor. The folks that parroted this rhetoric that theres more to medicine and being a doctor than step were typicallt the students that severely delayed or did not pass step.

So to answer your question, Yes, but not if the faculty had any say in it. But You will be fine - I promise. Al l of the SIM, 1st year clinic, 2nd year clinic prepared me very well to enter true clerkships my 3rd year.
 
DemNeurons said:
I'm glad you've brought this up because its a huge point and i completely forgot about it originally. I'll start by saying I totally understand your reservations with flipped classrooms. The grad program I attended actually had a lot of faculty studying science education and delivery vs. hard science and I TAd in one of them. It was a such a **** show - none of the students were ready for it, it's hard to have one out of your 4-5 classes be like this, and everyone is used to being "taught", and typically if flipped is attempted its usually one of the first times or recently just started - in that regard, you're justified - but CHM is very very different. I'll try to be brief.

Everyone's biggest concern was that we had only 1 big lecture a week - how the hell are we going to learn all this stuff without lectures. The thing is, you slowly adapt and realize just how inneficient lectures are at getting through the material. You might spend 2 hours of a lecture with a bumbling professor going over JUST Insulin, or two hours on ALL the diabetes drugs with BnB and a perusing of Robbins, 20 questions of UWorld, some Anki, and still have time to go make a PB&J if you're feeling snacky from all the efficiency. The thing is, the material in medical school, save for a few topics, is NOT conceptually difficult to grasp - there's just A LOT of it. You don't need someone to read off of slides for two hours when you can do that yourself. An example - Learning to read EKGs. You can read about them and watch some videos at home probably from someone who is a far better lecturer than the tired disgruntled 60 yo cardiologist that drew the short straw that day. This way, you go into "lecture", have the course pack printed out and just start doing it. If you get stuck, theres like 15 faculty members perusing the lecture hall to show you how you messed up, or you ask your peers. You compare that to learning at school and having to practice at home with no one to ask questions of when you get stuck.

You get so used to this system and appreciative of it that when you start intercessions in the spring its a culture shock of how terrible lectures really are. Almost everyone would fall disinterested, put on headphones and do UWorld or Anki because they're so used to flipped classrooms that they already went over it the night before. Your nights become your time to read and watch online lectures and your days become time to actively recall and work with the material. Everyone complained there werent enough lectures because we were used to that, then they gave us lectures galore for 6 hours a day and then everyone complained about that and wanted less of them, and then it stayed that way.

I honest to god could never go back to a traditional lecture based curriculum and not bang my head against the desk out of sheer boredom. You become such an efficient self directed learner very quickly and you won't be able to go back - even the die hard lecture kids. Lectures are half the information in twice the time.




Not a problem! Happy to offer some insight.



I'm going to be very honest with you because I think this is becoming a common theme around the country with how popular BnB/Pathoma/Anki have become. Passing but also doing well on that test single most important thing for you as a 1st and 2nd year. I don't care what curricular faculty say, it really is this simple. Academic medicine is in it's only little bubble universe about this, but as soon as you get to year 3-4, the only things that matter are your Steps, your shelfs, and your letters. You build your library in year 1-2, you start learning how to pull from that library in 3-4, and then residency is where you actually learn how to be a doctor. The folks that parroted this rhetoric that theres more to medicine and being a doctor than step were typicallt the students that severely delayed or did not pass step.

So to answer your question, Yes, but not if the faculty had any say in it. But You will be fine - I promise. Al l of the SIM, 1st year clinic, 2nd year clinic prepared me very well to enter true clerkships my 3rd year.
Click to expand...


Thank you!! Guess that makes my decision of where to go that much harder lol
 
DemNeurons said:
I'm glad you've brought this up because its a huge point and i completely forgot about it originally. I'll start by saying I totally understand your reservations with flipped classrooms. The grad program I attended actually had a lot of faculty studying science education and delivery vs. hard science and I TAd in one of them. It was a such a **** show - none of the students were ready for it, it's hard to have one out of your 4-5 classes be like this, and everyone is used to being "taught", and typically if flipped is attempted its usually one of the first times or recently just started - in that regard, you're justified - but CHM is very very different. I'll try to be brief.

Everyone's biggest concern was that we had only 1 big lecture a week - how the hell are we going to learn all this stuff without lectures. The thing is, you slowly adapt and realize just how inneficient lectures are at getting through the material. You might spend 2 hours of a lecture with a bumbling professor going over JUST Insulin, or two hours on ALL the diabetes drugs with BnB and a perusing of Robbins, 20 questions of UWorld, some Anki, and still have time to go make a PB&J if you're feeling snacky from all the efficiency. The thing is, the material in medical school, save for a few topics, is NOT conceptually difficult to grasp - there's just A LOT of it. You don't need someone to read off of slides for two hours when you can do that yourself. An example - Learning to read EKGs. You can read about them and watch some videos at home probably from someone who is a far better lecturer than the tired disgruntled 60 yo cardiologist that drew the short straw that day. This way, you go into "lecture", have the course pack printed out and just start doing it. If you get stuck, theres like 15 faculty members perusing the lecture hall to show you how you messed up, or you ask your peers. You compare that to learning at school and having to practice at home with no one to ask questions of when you get stuck.

You get so used to this system and appreciative of it that when you start intercessions in the spring its a culture shock of how terrible lectures really are. Almost everyone would fall disinterested, put on headphones and do UWorld or Anki because they're so used to flipped classrooms that they already went over it the night before. Your nights become your time to read and watch online lectures and your days become time to actively recall and work with the material. Everyone complained there werent enough lectures because we were used to that, then they gave us lectures galore for 6 hours a day and then everyone complained about that and wanted less of them, and then it stayed that way.

I honest to god could never go back to a traditional lecture based curriculum and not bang my head against the desk out of sheer boredom. You become such an efficient self directed learner very quickly and you won't be able to go back - even the die hard lecture kids. Lectures are half the information in twice the time.




Not a problem! Happy to offer some insight.



I'm going to be very honest with you because I think this is becoming a common theme around the country with how popular BnB/Pathoma/Anki have become. Passing but also doing well on that test single most important thing for you as a 1st and 2nd year. I don't care what curricular faculty say, it really is this simple. Academic medicine is in it's only little bubble universe about this, but as soon as you get to year 3-4, the only things that matter are your Steps, your shelfs, and your letters. You build your library in year 1-2, you start learning how to pull from that library in 3-4, and then residency is where you actually learn how to be a doctor. The folks that parroted this rhetoric that theres more to medicine and being a doctor than step were typicallt the students that severely delayed or did not pass step.

So to answer your question, Yes, but not if the faculty had any say in it. But You will be fine - I promise. Al l of the SIM, 1st year clinic, 2nd year clinic prepared me very well to enter true clerkships my 3rd year.
Click to expand...
very informative, thank you
 
Pre-II R just now, complete 11/19 LM 67, “preliminary rejection” in portal.
 
If I interviewed on 1/13/2020, when should I expect a response?
 
Has anyone been notified of either an R or II that was previously on hold? I am still in this limbo phase and surprised that I haven't received an R yet? Is this a good sign?
 
ash_T said:
Has anyone been notified of either an R or II that was previously on hold? I am still in this limbo phase and surprised that I haven't received an R yet? Is this a good sign?
Click to expand...
Was on hold and received a rejection today :/
 
aw shooot. they are probably reviewing holds today then. guess ill brace myself for the R. ALSO LOVE THE CORGI PIC. I want one so badly but I know it's probably not a good idea to get one while in school.
 
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