2020-2021 Waitlist Support Thread

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wpneuro said:
Just wanted to point out that it says number of As per applicant, not per accepted applicant! Given an increase in total applicants, we can't necessarily make any judgements about whether or not there are more applicants with more As from the AAMC tables (which are also from early February, a month ago now). I still think it's the case based on info from MD-PhD PDs, but it's definitely important to keep in mind that the two (MD vs MD-PhD) cycles likely operate slightly differently in numbers (though I maintain that general trends are likely applicable to both). Edit: I crunched the numbers out of boredom, and there are
  1. Fewer applicants with As but
  2. More As given as of 2/8, which means
  3. On average, more As per accepted applicant.
Math below:

2021 MD application cycle
60127 processed apps * 1.63 As/applicant = 98007 As handed out --> 12613 accepted applicants = 7.8 As per accepted applicant

2020 MD application cycle
50804 processed apps * 1.72 As/applicant = 87383 As handed out --> 13377 accepted applicants = 6.5 As per accepted applicant


Posts quoted below are from the MD-PhD PDs (bolding mine): they're also seeing that more of their accepted applicants have more As, which isn't a huge shocker at this point.
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This analysis is incorrect. Second column in table is "accepted" applicant. Number of A's handed out is 20559 vs. 23008 at same time last year. Very poor labeling by AAMC.
 
Honestly, someone needs to tell AAMC to use median instead of mean for a skewed distribution. The mean is .... meaningless.
 
So, for those of you keeping score at home, welcome to what has turned out to be the most insane application cycle ever!!!

99,033 primaries started and 60,127 actually submitted, an 18% increase over last cycle, as reported earlier. This means the overall accept rate is going to go from 43% last year to 36% this year, assuming there are no new MD seats this year.

For those who were always planning on applying this cycle, it is always possible that the additional 9300 applicants threw in half baked, last minute applications that weren't competitive, and your results won't be as bad as the top line numbers suggest, but, we'll never really know for sure.

The good news for everyone on a WL is that, as of 2/8, only 12,613 people had at least one A, a 764 decrease from last year. While a month has passed since then, this still means literally thousands of people (9,000 as of 2/8) who do not have As will have at least one before school starts this summer. Some will come from initial As, but many will come from WLs. The only people eligible to receive one of these As will be those who had interviews and have not yet been rejected, which is a pretty small subset of the total applicant pool, so it is way too soon to give up hope for this cycle if you are presently on WLs. Good luck!!!!
 
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KnightDoc said:
So, for those of you keeping score at home, welcome to what has turned out to be the most insane application cycle ever!!!

99,033 primaries started and 60,127 actually submitted, an 18% increase over last cycle, as reported earlier. This mean the overall accept rate is going to go from 43% last year to 36% this year, assuming there are no new MD seats this year.

For those who were always planning on applying this cycle, it is always possible that the additional 9300 applicants threw in half baked, last minute applications that weren't competitive, and your results won't be as bad as the top line numbers first appear, but, we'll never really know for sure.

The good news for everyone on a WL is that, as of 2/8, only 12,613 people had at least one A, a 764 decrease from last year. While a month has passed since then, this still means literally thousands of people (9,000 as of 2/8) who do not have As will have at least one before school starts this summer. Some will come from initial As, but many will come from WLs. The only people eligible will be those who had interviews and have not yet been rejected, which is a pretty small subset of the total applicant pool, so it is way too soon to give up hope for this cycle if you are presently on WLs. Good luck!!!!
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I'm just confused on where you got that 9,000 number from?
 
Quil98 said:
I'm just confused on where you got that 9,000 number from?
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12,613 individuals held at least one A as of 2/8. There were 21,625 US-MD MS1 seats last year. 21,625-12,613=9,012 additional people who will have at least one A by the time all the schools begin classes this summer.
 
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KnightDoc said:
So, for those of you keeping score at home, welcome to what has turned out to be the most insane application cycle ever!!!

99,033 primaries started and 60,127 actually submitted, an 18% increase over last cycle, as reported earlier. This mean the overall accept rate is going to go from 43% last year to 36% this year, assuming there are no new MD seats this year.

For those who were always planning on applying this cycle, it is always possible that the additional 9300 applicants threw in half baked, last minute applications that weren't competitive, and your results won't be as bad as the top line numbers first appear, but, we'll never really know for sure.

The good news for everyone on a WL is that, as of 2/8, only 12,613 people had at least one A, a 764 decrease from last year. While a month has passed since then, this still means literally thousands of people (9,000 as of 2/8) who do not have As will have at least one before school starts this summer. Some will come from initial As, but many will come from WLs. The only people eligible will be those who had interviews and have not yet been rejected, which is a pretty small subset of the total applicant pool, so it is way too soon to give up hope for this cycle if you are presently on WLs. Good luck!!!!
Click to expand...

KnightDoc said:
12,613 individuals hold at least one A as of 2/8. There were 21,625 US-MD MS1 seats last year. 21,625-12,613=9,012 additional people who will have at least one A by the time all the schools begin classes this summer.
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this seems like absolutely great news
 
Thanks to those of you out there who cranked out these numbers and interpreted them!
To my friends on WL's but no A's yet, how are you staying sane? I think I'm slowly losing my mind (2 WL's + 4 post-interview silences, which I'm not too optimistic about at this point) and would appreciate any advice!
 
Waitlisted at my top choice and only in state school earlier this week. Was disappointed to find that last cycle they didn’t seem to dip into the waitlist very much! Here’s to more waiting!
 
gonnif said:
The thing I am curious about is while there was a 20% increase in the actual number of applications processed but there was a 75% increase in the number of transcript received.
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Yeah. Nice observation. Sounds like more transcripts per applicant. Any conclusions you'd like to share? I have my own thoughts, but I'd not sure people will appreciate them coming from a lowly premed, so I'd love to hear your thoughts as a respected, experienced adcom.
 
Rheopecty said:
My theory:
>People send in transcripts.
>People see their MCAT score (or any myriad of personal disqualifying reasons for applying).
>People no longer send in their app.
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But, that happens every year. He's asking why 13% more applications were started, 18% more applications were submitted, but a whopping 72% more transcripts were received? On its face, it seems incongruent.

FWIW, the percent of apps started that ultimately were submitted actually went UP this cycle, from 58% to 61%! And, maybe that's part of the explanation, because people who are going to submit are more likely to order transcripts than people who start and then abandon an application, but that doesn't account for a 72% increase associated with a 3% increase in completed apps.
 
Lily_C said:
Thanks to those of you out there who cranked out these numbers and interpreted them!
To my friends on WL's but no A's yet, how are you staying sane? I think I'm slowly losing my mind (2 WL's + 4 post-interview silences, which I'm not too optimistic about at this point) and would appreciate any advice!
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To be honest, not coping well. This is my second cycle. Waitlisted at my top choice for the second time. It’s really damaging to your spirit to have worked this hard and been through so much just to be told you aren’t good enough. So far, the only thing that has given me any sort of comfort has been talking to people here on the SDN who really know how hard this is and have shared experience. I urge you to reach out to any kind of support you have and talk through things. Aside from that, always ALWAYS hope for the best, but plan for the worst so you can set yourself up for success moving forward.

Feel free to DM me if you or anyone needs to vent or chat.
 
Lily_C said:
Thanks to those of you out there who cranked out these numbers and interpreted them!
To my friends on WL's but no A's yet, how are you staying sane? I think I'm slowly losing my mind (2 WL's + 4 post-interview silences, which I'm not too optimistic about at this point) and would appreciate any advice!
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I feel like by default anybody who puts themselves through this bs does not qualify as sane (aka all of us). I forgot what unadulterated sanity feels like after I hit submit on AMCAS.
 
Does anyone know whether it's appropriate to reach out to schools to see where on the waitlist you are? Sitting on a couple of waitlists right now, but those schools seem to have waitlisted a lot of applicants...
 
monsteraqueen said:
Does anyone know whether it's appropriate to reach out to schools to see where on the waitlist you are? Sitting on a couple of waitlists right now, but those schools seem to have waitlisted a lot of applicants...
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Totally. Some will be transparent but, unfortunately, many will not tell you anything.
 
Lily_C said:
Thanks to those of you out there who cranked out these numbers and interpreted them!
To my friends on WL's but no A's yet, how are you staying sane? I think I'm slowly losing my mind (2 WL's + 4 post-interview silences, which I'm not too optimistic about at this point) and would appreciate any advice!
Click to expand...
On 5 WLs currently with two more most likely coming. Honestly not doing amazing but life goes on, trying to figure out if I'm gonna apply this summer or wait. This was my 3rd time already. Just trying to hang with friends/family/do the things I love so things feel normal.
 
KnightDoc said:
Totally. Some will be transparent but, unfortunately, many will not tell you anything.
Click to expand...
Many (most?) schools have an unranked waitlist. Thus, at this point, there is nothing to tell.
 
KnightDoc said:
But, that happens every year. He's asking why 13% more applications were started, 18% more applications were submitted, but a whopping 72% more transcripts were received? On its face, it seems incongruent.

FWIW, the percent of apps started that ultimately were submitted actually went UP this cycle, from 58% to 61%! And, maybe that's part of the explanation, because people who are going to submit are more likely to order transcripts than people who start and then abandon an application, but that doesn't account for a 72% increase associated with a 3% increase in completed apps.
Click to expand...
IMO, the most important metric for assessing year-over-year changes in applicant volume is completed secondaries - does this data exist? Without the completed secondaries benchmark, you can't really meaningfully speculate on the overall applicant picture.

As others have mentioned above, I think the application increase we saw this year (assuming this data is primary apps) is due almost entirely to those applying without an MCAT score. Transcript requesting is the easiest part of the app so it may very well be that this discrepancy is due to applicants knocking off the low-hanging fruit of the primary app while waiting on their scores w/o committing to the more intensive parts.

On a more positive note, I agree with others suggesting that we may actually see greater WL movement this cycle. Not sure if this is due to virtual interviews or a more conservative approach to acceptance offering throughout interview season but regardless, I'm optimistic about our chances!

Edit: Optimism bias disclosure: 0A, 2WL, 1 Post-II R, 4 post-II decisions pending
 
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Joining this thread as someone with 2WL post interviews in November (and haven’t received any other interviews). I know movement has barely begun but this waiting period sucks. Going to have to start studying for the mcat soon since that’s the only lacking part of my app. Hoping for the best for all of us 🥺
 
What do you all think about VITA for the next cycle? I think I would mind reapplying less if I didn't have to do VITA again next cycle.
 
This may have been asked already. If we get off WL after we CTE, do we get tuition from the place where we paid tuition back etc? Just trying to understand the WL process. Thank you in advance
 
r2med said:
This may have been asked already. If we get off WL after we CTE, do we get tuition from the place where we paid tuition back etc? Just trying to understand the WL process. Thank you in advance
Click to expand...
In general, it doesn't happen! The "C" in CTE stands for "Commit." Under the rules (guidelines) you are supposed to withdraw from ALL WLs when you select CTE. If the CTE school learns that you did not, your acceptance could be rescinded. In addition, if the WL schools are playing by the rules, they will kick you off the WL when they see you have selected CTE elsewhere, as they will be able to see beginning on 4/30.

So, no, if you break all the rules and somehow get away with it, there is no protocol to refund non-refundable money paid, and you will be at the mercy of the school. It's not worth worrying about, because it would be pretty rare to actually receive an A from a participating school after selecting CTE elsewhere. If you have an approaching CTE deadline, your play is to beg your WL school for a decision and then, if you don't receive an A before your deadline, to kiss it goodbye.

These protocols are not total BS. They are set up by the schools, to benefit the schools, by allowing them to manage their enrollment process. They are reasonably diligent in following them, as opposed to just ignoring them all over the place to benefit us. If that were really a thing, they wouldn't have set them up in the first place, and, if they allow us to ignore them with impunity, there will be chaos as people play musical chairs right through the first few days or weeks of classes at some early start schools.
 
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KnightDoc said:
In general, it doesn't happen! The "C" in CTE stands for "Commit." Under the rules (guidelines) you are supposed to withdraw from ALL WLs when you selected CTE -- if the CTE school learns that you did not, your acceptance could be rescinded. In addition, if the WL schools are playing by the rules, they will kick you off the WL when they see you have selected CTE elsewhere, as they will be able to see beginning on 4/30.

So, no, if you break all the rules and somehow get away with it, there is no protocol to refund non-refundable money paid, and you will be at the mercy of the school. It's not worth worrying about, because it would be pretty rare to actually receive an A from a participating school after selecting CTE elsewhere. If you have an approaching CTE deadline, your play is to beg your WL school for a decision and then, if you don't receive one, to kiss it goodbye.

These protocols are not total BS. They are set up by the schools, to benefit the schools, by allowing them to manage their enrollment process. They are reasonably diligent in following them, as opposed to just ignoring them all over the place to benefit us. If that were really a thing, they wouldn't have set them up in the first place.
Click to expand...
You really in every thread huh
 
So, after CTE, it's only for people with no As but all WLs
 
r2med said:
So, after CTE, it's only for people with no As but all WLs
Click to expand...
No. Read this:

KnightDoc said:
Nobody can see anything until 4/30. Unfortunately for you, if 4/30 is really your CTE deadline (please confirm this with the school), the "rules" require that you withdraw from all your WLs when you select CTE. Your WL school will see this on 4/30, and, if they are playing by the "rules" they will kick you off the WL if you don't withdraw, so you won't ever have to worry about being accepted.

This is what is evil about allowing schools to set arbitrary CTE dates. There is absolutely no connection between 4/30 and when classes start at any school, so there is no reason to require anyone to select it so early. It is merely the first date that the CYMS tool will allow you to select CTE. It is just a device to force you to attend your CTE school without affording you the opportunity to see if you are called off the WL at your top choice. An opportunity that thousands of other applicants across the country will not be denied. Evil.

@gyngyn, @LizzyM, @Moko -- Do you guys have any juice, or have access to people that do? You have all proven yourselves to be strong advocates for applicants and students, and AMCAS REALLY should consider not allowing the tool to be used for CTE selection until the end of May, a full month after the requirement to reduce to one A and to provide visibility to schools regarding PTE selections. This would provide the necessary buffer to allow the system to work its magic, and to allow everyone to participate as the bulk of WL movement occurs.

Does any school really need a CTE date before then? Do any schools actually begin orientation before the third week of June? It is honestly BS that people like OP are going to be disadvantaged like this, as some schools simply game the system to their advantage. It would be great if this glaring inequity were addressed, if not now, then maybe in time for me next year. 😎
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CTE dates are all over the place. After your CTE deadline, plenty of people could theoretically still be on those WLs while being PTE somewhere, which is totally unfair to people like you. It's definitely not just for people with no As. That's not until the very end, after classes have begun in most of the country, just like you'd expect.
 
KnightDoc said:
No. Read this:


CTE dates are all over the place. After your CTE deadline, plenty of people could theoretically still be on those WLs while being PTE somewhere, which is totally unfair to people like you. It's definitely not just for people with no As. That's not until the very end, after classes have begun in most of the country, just like you'd expect.
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It's probably going off-topic, but 4/30 is PTE and 6/30 is CTE, commonly used by AMCAS, I thought. No?
 
r2med said:
It's probably going off-topic, but 4/30 is PTE and 6/30 is CTE, commonly used by AMCAS, I thought. No?
Click to expand...

I may be wrong, but it seems each school has their own CTE to account for their different start dates. Like one school ik has theirs on June 1st.
 
r2med said:
It's probably going off-topic, but 4/30 is PTE and 6/30 is CTE, commonly used by AMCAS, I thought. No?
Click to expand...
No. Most, but not all, schools require you to reduce to one A and select PTE by 4/30. CTE dates are all over the place, and are determined STRICTLY by the schools. AMCAS recommends that it be 3 weeks before orientation, but it can be whenever schools decide, and some schools set it as early as 4/30, as I noted in my quote above.

You ABSOLUTELY have to reach out to the schools you have As at now (or, check their websites, portals, your e-mails, or wherever else they would provide this information to you) and find out what their dates are. Having a later CTE date (thereby allowing you to stay on WLs longer) might impact your decision!
 
Vikingbear16 said:
I may be wrong, but it seems each school has their own CTE to account for their different start dates. Like one school ik has theirs on June 1st.
Click to expand...
Is there a list floating around on SDN with those dates?
 
r2med said:
Is there a list floating around on SDN with those dates?
Click to expand...
Maybe, but don't rely on it. You have 2 As!!!! Go directly to the source and get the most accurate, up to date information!!!!!!
 
r2med said:
Ok - will reach out. Hope the CTE is August!!!
Click to expand...
The ethical schools set it 3 weeks before orientation, so start with that. Most schools have a timeline on their admissions websites, so you shouldn't have to actually personally reach out to anyone. Schools do start anywhere from June-August, so that drives some of the disparity, but, some schools do just go out of their way to screw you over by forcing you to commit early and drop all WLs, so be careful. I am pretty sure your schools are not dicks when it comes to this, so you should be reasonably okay.
 
5 WL, 1 R, and waiting to hear from 3. Of those 3, one has ghosted me since October and the other is basically guaranteed WL but I only interviewed there a couple weeks ago. Don't think I'll be reapplying so hopefully the waitlist comes through.
 
Hey guys, I am struggling to not be angry at this application process. I know that every spot is "earned" and not "deserved," but it is generally deflating to not see this pan out. To give some background, I am a first time applicant with a cGPA 3.98, sGPA 3.97, and 520 MCAT (delayed from April to July). I have unique research experience (educational/sociological to guide reformation of an entire undergraduate biology program), taught organic chemistry, tutored general chemistry, volunteered for many hours, scribed, shadowed, administered COVID-19 tests, washed colonoscopes, received good LOR, and was even picked to carry the banner for my college graduation because of my successes in undergrad (sadly canceled due to COVID :/ ). I applied to 16 schools (not many) but have only received one interview and I have been placed on the waitlist there. None of the 15 other institutions even gave me a chance to speak with them or have provided feedback. Honestly, I am unsure about what to do different this time other than apply earlier. Stay strong guys.
 
Studytrain said:
Hey guys, I am struggling to not be angry at this application process. I know that every spot is "earned" and not "deserved," but it is generally deflating to not see this pan out. To give some background, I am a first time applicant with a cGPA 3.98, sGPA 3.97, and 520 MCAT (delayed from April to July). I have unique research experience (educational/sociological to guide reformation of an entire undergraduate biology program), taught organic chemistry, tutored general chemistry, volunteered for many hours, scribed, shadowed, administered COVID-19 tests, washed colonoscopes, received good LOR, and was even picked to carry the banner for my college graduation because of my successes in undergrad (sadly canceled due to COVID :/ ). I applied to 16 schools (not many) but have only received one interview and I have been placed on the waitlist there. None of the 15 other institutions even gave me a chance to speak with them or have provided feedback. Honestly, I am unsure about what to do different this time other than apply earlier. Stay strong guys.
Click to expand...
I'm surprised. You sound like a strong candidate. First of all --- if the WL doesn't come through and you have to apply again, apply very broadly. It can really be a numbers game. Maybe 30-35 schools and hit a lot of mid-tiers. Second, make certain that your writing (PS and secondaries) is stellar. Good luck with coming off that WL!
 
Studytrain said:
Hey guys, I am struggling to not be angry at this application process. I know that every spot is "earned" and not "deserved," but it is generally deflating to not see this pan out. To give some background, I am a first time applicant with a cGPA 3.98, sGPA 3.97, and 520 MCAT (delayed from April to July). I have unique research experience (educational/sociological to guide reformation of an entire undergraduate biology program), taught organic chemistry, tutored general chemistry, volunteered for many hours, scribed, shadowed, administered COVID-19 tests, washed colonoscopes, received good LOR, and was even picked to carry the banner for my college graduation because of my successes in undergrad (sadly canceled due to COVID :/ ). I applied to 16 schools (not many) but have only received one interview and I have been placed on the waitlist there. None of the 15 other institutions even gave me a chance to speak with them or have provided feedback. Honestly, I am unsure about what to do different this time other than apply earlier. Stay strong guys.
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Holy s**t!!!! I was about to write a post lecturing you about limiting yourself to T20s, but I went back and saw from your WAMC post that you did everything right. What do you think happened????????????

If this happened to you it could happen to anyone. When you talk about applying earlier, just how late did you apply? Given your stats, you should have received a look no matter when you applied, as long as it was before the deadline!

There are no obvious weaknesses in what you stated above, so there almost has to be a bomb somewhere in your app (essays, LORs, etc.). 16 schools is a little on the light side, but the schools you were talking about seem fine. Crazy as it might sound, I wonder if there is a chance that your list wasn't heavy enough, and that you found yourself yield protected out at most of your schools, without enough shots at the higher ranked schools to give yourself a reasonable chance to be successful this cycle?

I'd love to hear other opinions, but it kind of has to be one of these two (terrible essays and/or LORs, or terrible school list). It's not your interview skills, because you didn't get that far. Given the profiles of everyone else reporting success this cycle, it sure isn't your stats or ECs, which are the two most important metrics. I feel terrible for you, and hope people who know what they are talking about weigh in here.
 
Studytrain said:
Hey guys, I am struggling to not be angry at this application process. I know that every spot is "earned" and not "deserved," but it is generally deflating to not see this pan out. To give some background, I am a first time applicant with a cGPA 3.98, sGPA 3.97, and 520 MCAT (delayed from April to July). I have unique research experience (educational/sociological to guide reformation of an entire undergraduate biology program), taught organic chemistry, tutored general chemistry, volunteered for many hours, scribed, shadowed, administered COVID-19 tests, washed colonoscopes, received good LOR, and was even picked to carry the banner for my college graduation because of my successes in undergrad (sadly canceled due to COVID :/ ). I applied to 16 schools (not many) but have only received one interview and I have been placed on the waitlist there. None of the 15 other institutions even gave me a chance to speak with them or have provided feedback. Honestly, I am unsure about what to do different this time other than apply earlier. Stay strong guys.
Click to expand...

Hey dude/dudette, are you me!? 3.97/520 here, with only one II ---> one WL (at my top choice too, unfortunately). Granted, I applied in Sept/Oct (MCAT was delayed due to COVID lockdowns here in Canada), and I'm international, but still... The pain is real. It's getting hard to keep trying anymore. Keeping my fingers crossed for us. Feel free to PM me if you ever need to talk.
 
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Hermes. said:
Hey dude/dudette, are you me!? 3.97/520 here, with only one II ---> one WL (at my top choice too, unfortunately). Granted, I applied in Sept/Oct (MCAT was delayed due to COVID lockdowns here in Canada), and I'm international, but still... The pain is real. It's getting hard to keep trying anymore. Keeping my fingers crossed for us. Feel free to PM me if you ever need to talk.
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near identical stats and international (grew up here though which makes the pain even worse lol). I applied on the first day and submitted secondaries within a week of receiving them so I was lucky enough to get multiple IIs but they all led to WLs...the process is brutal for everybody but I think it especially harder for internationals since a lot of state schools aren't open for us

as someone else also said, if I don't get in off of a WL, not applying again bc there would be too many visa issues to figure out in my case
 
andrana14 said:
near identical stats and international (grew up here though which makes the pain even worse lol). I applied on the first day and submitted secondaries within a week of receiving them so I was lucky enough to get multiple IIs but they all led to WLs...the process is brutal for everybody but I think it especially harder for internationals since a lot of state schools aren't open for us

as someone else also said, if I don't get in off of a WL, not applying again bc there would be too many visa issues to figure out in my case
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You pointed out something really interesting... the international part, and that has kinda shed some light on my situation. Also very similar stats, submitted on day one, but I grew up overseas (although am a US citizen). Fun fact, even though my parents paid taxes to the state I'm attending undergrad in for the past 20 years, I STILL am OOS for that state (and every other state in the US too!). Got zero love from the state schools in that state 🙁--gotta love the IS/OOS politics...

Good luck to us both; here's to us getting in somewhere soon!
 
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