2020-2021 Waitlist Support Thread

[KnightDoc]

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This question was on a thread from a couple years ago when the new Traffic Rules were put out, but the question never got answered. I still see speculation regarding this topic in more recent threads. Does anyone have an answer here?

The answer is that there is no answer! You are correct -- two years ago, the speculation was that fewer initial As, due to the adcoms' lack of visibility under the new rules, would lead to more WL movement. It never happened, probably because fewer initial As also led to fewer people holding multiple As, which actually led to LESS WL movement, which partially or totally offset the expected increase in WL movement caused by fewer initial As. 🙂

This year, the speculation is that virtual IIs led to superstars attending IIs they would have skipped in the past, which will lead to more of them holding more multiple As, which will lead to increased WL movement when they are forced to reduce to one A. Will it actually happen? Nobody knows, until it does. Or doesn't.

You can drive yourself crazy trying to reason through all the possibilities. What you can take to the bank is that, when orientation rolls around, every seat will be filled, and nobody will be sitting in more than one of them.

As long as you are on at least one WL, you are still in the game. The more WLs, the better your chances to score at least one A when it's all over.

It's easy for me to tell you to try to relax, since I didn't apply this year, but, I've been closely following this since 2019 in anticipation of applying this year. My plans changed due to COVID, but I will be applying next year, so I do kinda sorta have some idea what I am talking about. Trust me, it's been a very long year, and you are very near the finish line. You will have MUCH more visibility into your situation a mere two months from now. Between now and then you can either drive yourself crazy, or, you can try to relax.

 

[NNH2018]

The answer is that there is no answer! You are correct -- two years ago, the speculation was that fewer initial As, due to the adcoms' lack of visibility under the new rules, would lead to more WL movement. It never happened, probably because fewer initial As also led to fewer people holding multiple As, which actually led to LESS WL movement, which partially or totally offset the expected increase in WL movement caused by fewer initial As. 🙂

This year, the speculation is that virtual IIs led to superstars attending IIs they would have skipped in the past, which will lead to more of them holding more multiple As, which will lead to increased WL movement when they are forced to reduce to one A. Will it actually happen? Nobody knows, until it does. Or doesn't.

You can drive yourself crazy trying to reason through all the possibilities. What you can take to the bank is that, when orientation rolls around, every seat will be filled, and nobody will be sitting in more than one of them.

As long as you are on at least one WL, you are still in the game. The more WLs, the better your chances to score at least one A when it's all over.

It's easy for me to tell you to try to relax, since I didn't apply this year, but, I've been closely following this since 2019 in anticipation of applying this year. My plans changed due to COVID, but I will be applying next year, so I do kinda sorta have some idea what I am talking about. Trust me, it's been a very long year, and you are very near the finish line. You will have MUCH more visibility into your situation a mere two months from now. Between now and then you can either drive yourself crazy, or, you can try to relax.

As someone who was on a WL last year and never got off, I appreciate this realistic but not overly negative viewpoint. WL suck and you never know if a school just put you there because they don't want to outright reject you post-interview or if you actually have a shot. I wish schools could be more transparent about your position on the list. It's an incredibly frustrating place to be as you feel like your life plan is slipping away, but many schools do understand this and last year one even offered to help me review my app for reapplication. I have sympathy for everyone here as I also have 3 WL and no As at the moment.

Sorry for venting but I feel like yall are some of the few people who understand how frustrating this is. We can rack our brains and hope for lots of movement but I don't think anyone really knows what's going to happen. Let's try to stay positive and enjoy that at least our lives will hopefully be a bit more normal this summer. I'm rooting for every one of you.

 

[KnightDoc]

As someone who was on a WL last year and never got off, I appreciate this realistic but not overly negative viewpoint. WL suck and you never know if a school just put you there because they don't want to outright reject you post-interview or if you actually have a shot. I wish schools could be more transparent about your position on the list. It's an incredibly frustrating place to be as you feel like your life plan is slipping away, but many schools do understand this and last year one even offered to help me review my app for reapplication. I have sympathy for everyone here as I also have 3 WL and no As at the moment.

Sorry for venting but I feel like yall are some of the few people who understand how frustrating this is. We can rack our brains and hope for lots of movement but I don't think anyone really knows what's going to happen. Let's try to stay positive and enjoy that at least our lives will hopefully be a bit more normal this summer. I'm rooting for every one of you.

The shame of it is, some schools ARE very transparent, so there is no reason they can't all be. They just choose not to because their market power (sellers' market) allows them to do whatever they want with no consequence. They can treat applicants like crap and still have absolutely no problem filling their class.

Many, but not all, schools take advantage of this, and applicants are left hanging. That's why it is so important to try to relax and not obsess at this point in the process, where, other than at the schools that actively encourage begging (aka, submission of multiple LOIs), it is totally out of your control.

 

[snoo98]

Joining the waitlist thread. 4 II --> 3 WL, pending one decision (but assuming WL too). .... 🙁

 

[Rabz1223]

Extremely frustrating cycle. Seeing applicants with 5+ waitlists is terrifying, and it's really hard to hang on to some hope. Not sure how it's possible to be a strong enough candidate to receive multiple interviews and no As. Wishing for the best for all of us.

 

[Talldoctor96]

Extremely frustrating cycle. Seeing applicants with 5+ waitlists is terrifying, and it's really hard to hang on to some hope. Not sure how it's possible to be a strong enough candidate to receive multiple interviews and no As. Wishing for the best for all of us.

If you read through last years WL thread you would see the same things you are seeing this cycle. A big misconception on SDN is comparing the chances of getting a II with getting accepted.
For example: at my school to get an interview you need a good score from 2 reviewers.

to get accepted, you need good reviews from your 2 interviewers. Then 3 people read your entire app and look at your file and scores and give you a final score. The executive committee then meets and discusses/votes those with a high enough score over the threshold. You need a majority vote to be accepted.

getting a II and getting an A are 2 very different goal posts.

 

[HockeyAndBanjos73]

If you read through last years WL thread you would see the same things you are seeing this cycle. A big misconception on SDN is comparing the chances of getting a II with getting accepted.
For example: at my school to get an interview you need a good score from 2 reviewers.

to get accepted, you need good reviews from your 2 interviewers. Then 3 people read your entire app and look at your file and scores and give you a final score. The executive committee then meets and discusses/votes those with a high enough score over the threshold. You need a majority vote to be accepted.

getting a II and getting an A are 2 very different goal posts.

Pretty sure everyone on this thread is aware of the difference between getting an interview invite and getting an acceptance. Ya know, considering this is the WAITLIST Support Thread. We’re all just here to vent.

 

[KnightDoc]

Pretty sure everyone on this thread is aware of the difference between getting an interview invite and getting an acceptance. Ya know, considering this is the WAITLIST Support Thread. We’re all just here to vent.

I'd add that since 80%+ of applicants are screened out pre-II at each school, just receiving an II is an accomplishment, and one that is a necessary predicate to receiving an A.

The fact remains that while receiving an II is far from a guarantee of progressing to an A, depending on the school, something between 15% and 75% of IIs do ultimately convert to As, after taking WL movement into account. There is no getting away from the fact that, unless there is a fatal deficit in interpersonal skills that are exposed during an interview, the more WLs a person has, the greater the odds they will ultimately receive an A, with 3 WLs being the point at which the expected value of As >= 1, just based on historical numbers.

Everyone needs to remember that, while super stars tend to do better early in the process, all of them can ultimately only occupy one med school seat, and every seat needs to be filled. That is why, every single year, a substantial number of people with zero As in the middle of April are called off at least one WL by the time the music stops between May and July, depending on the school!!!

 

[cardamom_coffee]

I'd add that since 80%+ of applicants are screened out pre-II at each school, just receiving an II is an accomplishment, and one that is a necessary predicate to receiving an A.

The fact remains that while receiving an II is far from a guarantee of progressing to an A, depending on the school, something between 15% and 75% of IIs do ultimately convert to As, after taking WL movement into account. There is no getting away from the fact that, unless there is a fatal deficit in interpersonal skills that are exposed during an interview, the more WLs a person has, the greater the odds they will ultimately receive an A, with 3 WLs being the point at which the expected value of As >= 1, just based on historical numbers.

Everyone needs to remember that, while super stars tend to do better early in the process, all of them Can;can ultimately only occupy one med school seat, and every seat needs to be filled. That is why, every single year, a substantial number of people with zero As in the middle of April are called off at least one WL by the time the music stops between May and July, depending on the school!!!

Can't wait for this game of musical chairs to be over!!!

This is pure speculation...but wouldn't you think that due to COVID schools might have interviewed more and thus have larger WLs this cycle? So the post-II A rate might have been, say 75% in prior years but only 65% this year (just using random numbers as an example). Perhaps there's no way to tell, ever, smh

 

[KnightDoc]

Can we really expect waitlist movement to pickup in April? Doesn't it start on May 1st when CTE becomes avaliable?

Nope! 🙂 It picks up as soon as they have spots. People have been dropping As all along. It really picks up in the middle of April, because the protocols require people to drop to 3 As on 4/15. Even though there is no enforcement mechanism for this, a lot of people comply.

For the record, CTE being available on 4/30 is not the trigger. The 4/30 trigger is most schools requiring people to select PTE on that date, and you can only have one PTE at a time, so that causes all the excess As to be dropped by then. But, a lot of people do not wait until the last minute, so the WL movement really picks up in the middle of April, and continues at a decent clip until the middle of May, at which point it continues, but at a much slower pace, through the balance of the cycle.

 

[KnightDoc]

Can't wait for this game of musical chairs to be over!!!

This is pure speculation...but wouldn't you think that due to COVID schools might have interviewed more and thus have larger WLs this cycle? So the post-II A rate might have been, say 75% in prior years but only 65% this year (just using random numbers as an example). Perhaps there's no way to tell, ever, smh

Some schools did do this, but many schools did not. There really is no way to tell what will happen until it happens, so it's pointless to drive yourself crazy speculating. As I said in another post, it will all be over in around 2 months, so it's important to focus on the fact that it's been the worst year ever, there is light at the end of the pandemic tunnel, and you will have a lot more visibility into your future in a mere 2 months.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

Nope! 🙂 It picks up as soon as they have spots. People have been dropping As all along. It really picks up in the middle of April, because the protocols require people to drop to 3 As on 4/15. Even though there is no enforcement mechanism for this, a lot of people comply.

For the record, CTE being available on 4/30 is not the trigger. The 4/30 trigger is most schools requiring people to select PTE on that date, and you can only have one PTE at a time, so that causes all the excess As to be dropped by then. But, a lot of people do not wait until the last minute, so the WL movement really picks up in the middle of April, and continues at a decent clip until the middle of May, at which point it continues, but at a much slower pace, through the balance of the cycle.

If you CTE to a school, say April 28, but are also on a couple WL's, can you change your CTE to one of the waitlist schools if accepted after April 28 (in my example) ?

 

[cardamom_coffee]

If you CTE to a school, say April 28, but are also on a couple WL's, can you change your CTE to one of the waitlist schools if accepted after April 28 (in my example) ?

There's a difference between P(lan)TE and C(ommit)TE. Once you CTE you give up all rights to be on other WL's--and are required by traffic rules to drop all other WLs. But if you PTE then get off another WL you can totally change your PTE!

 

[KnightDoc]

If you CTE to a school, say April 28, but are also on a couple WL's, can you change your CTE to one of the waitlist schools if accepted after April 28 (in my example) ?

CTE is not available until 4/30. Once you select it, it is irrevocable and you are done, so they key is to only PTE, which allows you to stay on all WLs, and only CTE when you are required to do so. Every school has a different deadline, so it's important to check with the school to know what it is. Most schools, other than the total dicks, set it around 3 weeks before orientation, so you will find most are in June or July, although a few have set it as early as 4/30.

 

[Talldoctor96]

Pretty sure everyone on this thread is aware of the difference between getting an interview invite and getting an acceptance. Ya know, considering this is the WAITLIST Support Thread. We’re all just here to vent.

No one of course, I will take it a step further then. My point was receiving an acceptance is a huge hurdle, I was a reapplicant. BUT getting a waitlist means you are very close. Theres a lot to be positive and hope for.

 

[FloatingHead]

Joining the thread. My one and only II --> WL. Preparing for the worst, hoping for the best.

 

[loosecriminal]

If I want to reapply this May, are my letters of rec still valid or do i need to get all new ones?

 

[Hello_There_117]

I believe you can reuse a committee letter of recommendation but I'm not sure about individual letters. I have also been wondering about this approach as it looks more likely that I will be reapplying. My plan is to reuse the committee letter but to include a letter from my research mentor that I've been working under for the past year.

 

[LiteralLungs]

Many (most?) schools have an unranked waitlist. Thus, at this point, there is nothing to tell.

How do schools decide who to pull off the waitlist if it is unranked?

 

[MrSlark]

How much would schools that we're waitlisted at care about grades that weren't on our initial application from the summer and fall? How about midterm grades for this spring semester?

 

[zorcandpals]

I got 2 WL from 6 interviews (one school still hasn't respond). Do you guys think I should start looking for a gap year job or should I wait until late April/early May before panicking?

I would start asap. When I applied 6 years ago I ended up on 7 or so waitlisted that never worked out and while it sucked to not have gotten in; what really screwed me was not having a job lined up after graduation since all of the recruiting cycles were over and it was hard scrambling to find something. Probably took an extra several months to land back on my feet than needed.


This cycle is killing me though :/. On 2 waitlists and waiting to hear back from 3 more schools still and I feel like my night mare of repeating that cycle again is happening :'(

 

[gyngyn]

How do schools decide who to pull off the waitlist if it is unranked?

It will depend on the areas of under-enrollment or imbalance. If there is a large surplus of men, the next several (equally acceptable) women would be a good idea...

 

[deleted936329]

How do schools decide who to pull off the waitlist if it is unranked?

I’m speaking generally here so correct me if I’m wrong. I believe for the most part they look at the applicant holistically.
Where if they determine that they need to pull off the WL they’ll go through who’s on it and select the one that they believe fits with the school the best as well most likely to matriculate at the school while also considering stats and interview performance and other parts of the application.

I imagine going through the entire list multiple times might be time consuming so they probably have a form of a stream lined process to make it go faster. Maybe once they go through a list once they have a better understanding of the prioritization that isn’t necessarily a ranked list.

Whenever they find a candidate they do like I suppose they would vote on it to determine if that candidate should be pulled off the WL, just like how schools vote to determine if they should accept/WL/reject a candidate after an interview.

This is sort of how I envision it from what I’ve read but I could be wrong.
I definitely feel you though and want to know more about the process since my neurotic self just wants more transparency while I’m on the WL.

 

[deleted936329]

How much would schools that we're waitlisted at care about grades that weren't on our initial application from the summer and fall? How about midterm grades for this spring semester?

I believe if schools are receptive of updates and said they would like to see grades it doesn’t hurt to keep them informed! I think it also gives you a chance to circle it back to the school and reiterate your interest in their program!

 

[KnightDoc]

I’m speaking generally here so correct me if I’m wrong. I believe for the most part they look at the applicant holistically.
Where if they determine that they need to pull off the WL they’ll go through who’s on it and select the one that they believe fits with the school the best as well most likely to matriculate at the school while also considering stats and interview performance and other parts of the application.

I imagine going through the entire list multiple times might be time consuming so they probably have a form of a stream lined process to make it go faster. Maybe once they go through a list once they have a better understanding of the prioritization that isn’t necessarily a ranked list.

Whenever they find a candidate they do like I suppose they would vote on it to determine if that candidate should be pulled off the WL, just like how schools vote to determine if they should accept/WL/reject a candidate after an interview.

This is sort of how I envision it from what I’ve read but I could be wrong.
I definitely feel you though and want to know more about the process since my neurotic self just wants more transparency while I’m on the WL.

I'm not an adcom, and I hope @gyngyn will correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think unranked implies the holistic, fresh review you imagine. My understanding is that a ranked list has to be followed in strict order in order to comply with LCME standards, so most schools stay away from that to allow them some flexibility. This does not, however, mean constantly reviewing and voting on candidates.

Everyone is scored, both before and after interviews. Everyone has a relative spot on a WL, whether or not it is "ranked" or disclosed to candidates Sure, schools can balance a class geographically, or ethnically, or by sex, or by whatever, when pulling people off an unranked list, but, everyone has a score, and those with higher scores are called before those with lower scores, within whatever group the adcom wants to fill, without a massive discussion or more than a perfunctory vote. This is where, at least at some schools, a LOI can make a difference, depending on how the school weighs the LOI relative to the score.

 

[deleted936329]

I'm not an adcom, and I hope @gyngyn will correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think unranked implies the holistic, fresh review you imagine. My understanding is that a ranked list has to be followed in strict order in order to comply with LCME standards, so most schools stay away from that to allow them some flexibility. This does not, however, mean constantly reviewing and voting on candidates.

Everyone is scored, both before and after interviews. Everyone has a relative spot on a WL, whether or not it is "ranked" or disclosed to candidates Sure, schools can balance a class geographically, or ethnically, or by sex, or by whatever, when pulling people off an unranked list, but, everyone has a score, and those with higher scores are called before those with lower scores, within whatever group the adcom wants to fill, without a massive discussion or more than a perfunctory vote. This is where, at least at some schools, a LOI can make a difference, depending on how the school weighs the LOI relative to the score.

Thanks for the clarification! Definitely something I can imagine happening haha
I’m curious on how others see it too unless an adcom has a more thorough answer
I’m not an adcom either haha and I guess the speculation helps my nerves a bit and I hope others find some enjoyment in it too

Maybe we’ll never know a full answer

 

[LiteralLungs]

Do you think it would be alright sending a letter of intent (LOI) if the school doesn't specifically state anything about LOIs? They say that updates do not impact waitlist position, but they do accept letters of interest. Or maybe I should call the school and ask them if they accept LOIs?

 

[deleted1054719]

Do you think it would be alright sending a letter of intent (LOI) if the school doesn't specifically state anything about LOIs? They say that updates do not impact waitlist position, but they do accept letters of interest. Or maybe I should call the school and ask them if they accept LOIs?

Since a letter of intent is just a letter of interest with stronger wording, I don't see why you can't send one!

 

[Goro]

How much would schools that we're waitlisted at care about grades that weren't on our initial application from the summer and fall? How about midterm grades for this spring semester?

A semester of good grades can never hurt.

An exam block? I doubt that they're care.

 

[Goro]

How do schools decide who to pull off the waitlist if it is unranked?

Proximity to he school can be a factor. Schools know the closer one is, the more likely that they'll attend.

Adding to the school's diversity also helps.

 

[DilNyethescienceguy]

I'm not an adcom, and I hope @gyngyn will correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think unranked implies the holistic, fresh review you imagine. My understanding is that a ranked list has to be followed in strict order in order to comply with LCME standards, so most schools stay away from that to allow them some flexibility. This does not, however, mean constantly reviewing and voting on candidates.

Everyone is scored, both before and after interviews. Everyone has a relative spot on a WL, whether or not it is "ranked" or disclosed to candidates Sure, schools can balance a class geographically, or ethnically, or by sex, or by whatever, when pulling people off an unranked list, but, everyone has a score, and those with higher scores are called before those with lower scores, within whatever group the adcom wants to fill, without a massive discussion or more than a perfunctory vote. This is where, at least at some schools, a LOI can make a difference, depending on how the school weighs the LOI relative to the score.

I had no idea about LCME standards adherence- very interesting. I always assumed schools with unranked/undisclosed position waitlists did so largely in part because demographic matching can be a controversial subject

 

[KnightDoc]

I had no idea about LCME standards adherence- very interesting. I always assumed schools with unranked/undisclosed position waitlists did so largely in part because demographic matching can be a controversial subject

LCME CONSENSUS STATEMENT ON
SATISFACTORY PERFORMANCE IN ELEMENT 10.2:
ACCEPTANCE FROM THE WAITLIST/ALTERNATE LIST
[Approved by the LCME® on October 19, 2016]
​

The key expectations in satisfying the requirements of Element 10.2 (final authority of the admission committee) are the following: 1) the admission committee maintains final responsibility for accepting medical students; 2) there is formal documentation establishing the committee’s structure, function, and authority; 3) faculty members constitute the majority of voting members; and 4) the selection of students for admission is not influenced by political or financial factors.

The following summarizes methods for managing acceptance from the waitlist/alternate list that medical schools may use which conform to the requirements of Element 10.2.

The waitlist/alternate list is created by the Admission Committee according to school policy and procedure. The Admission Committee formally approves all applicants for the waitlist/alternate list as acceptable for admission.

Ranking of individuals on the waitlist/alternate list is not required by the LCME:

If the waitlist/alternate list is ranked:
This ranking is performed by the Admissions Committee. An individual can be admitted from a ranked waitlist/alternate list by one or a combination of the Admission Committee chair/associate dean for admissions/subgroup of the Admission Committee only based on his/her rank order number. The individual or subgroup has been formally delegated this authority by the Admission Committee. A vote by the Admission Committee on the individuals accepted from a ranked waitlist/alternate list is not required.

If the waitlist/alternate list is not ranked:
Individuals can be moved from the waitlist/alternate list to the accepted list based on criteria previously approved by the Admission Committee (e.g., to create balance in a class to support one or more of the missions of the school). The acceptance of applicants from the waitlist/alternate list could be done in a number of ways, for example:

By a vote of the full Admission Committee in person,
By an email ballot of the full Admission Committee, or
By a subgroup of the Admission Committee with formal delegated authority from the Admission Committee.

When a final class is assembled, in any of the above cases the Admission Committee should receive a report, including how many waitlist/alternate list individuals were admitted and on what general bases the admission decisions were made (e.g., rank order, contribution to school missions).

 

[deleted936329]

LCME CONSENSUS STATEMENT ON
SATISFACTORY PERFORMANCE IN ELEMENT 10.2:
ACCEPTANCE FROM THE WAITLIST/ALTERNATE LIST
[Approved by the LCME® on October 19, 2016]
​

The key expectations in satisfying the requirements of Element 10.2 (final authority of the admission committee) are the following: 1) the admission committee maintains final responsibility for accepting medical students; 2) there is formal documentation establishing the committee’s structure, function, and authority; 3) faculty members constitute the majority of voting members; and 4) the selection of students for admission is not influenced by political or financial factors.

The following summarizes methods for managing acceptance from the waitlist/alternate list that medical schools may use which conform to the requirements of Element 10.2.

The waitlist/alternate list is created by the Admission Committee according to school policy and procedure. The Admission Committee formally approves all applicants for the waitlist/alternate list as acceptable for admission.

Ranking of individuals on the waitlist/alternate list is not required by the LCME:

If the waitlist/alternate list is ranked:
This ranking is performed by the Admissions Committee. An individual can be admitted from a ranked waitlist/alternate list by one or a combination of the Admission Committee chair/associate dean for admissions/subgroup of the Admission Committee only based on his/her rank order number. The individual or subgroup has been formally delegated this authority by the Admission Committee. A vote by the Admission Committee on the individuals accepted from a ranked waitlist/alternate list is not required.

If the waitlist/alternate list is not ranked:
Individuals can be moved from the waitlist/alternate list to the accepted list based on criteria previously approved by the Admission Committee (e.g., to create balance in a class to support one or more of the missions of the school). The acceptance of applicants from the waitlist/alternate list could be done in a number of ways, for example:

By a vote of the full Admission Committee in person,
By an email ballot of the full Admission Committee, or
By a subgroup of the Admission Committee with formal delegated authority from the Admission Committee.

When a final class is assembled, in any of the above cases the Admission Committee should receive a report, including how many waitlist/alternate list individuals were admitted and on what general bases the admission decisions were made (e.g., rank order, contribution to school missions).

I guess my speculation was closer than I thought especially with the vote haha
This is interesting though thank you for putting it out there!

 

[KnightDoc]

I guess my speculation was closer than I thought especially with the vote haha
This is interesting though thank you for putting it out there!

Yup! It's worth noting that it definitely varies school to school, every school scores files to facilitated decision making (A, R, WL) and the catch-all in the LCME statement (By a subgroup of the Admission Committee with formal delegated authority from the Admission Committee) means that there is not necessarily a discussion and vote prior to selection.

It could very well be "we need a white guy from the midwest" and the subgroup just pulls the highest scored applicant with those characteristics from the WL. Other schools could do exactly what you envision. As you said, no way to know, unless it's a school like UCF that is totally transparent.

 

[blinkblink2]

7 IIs ---> 3 WL. I posted earlier but didn't want to leave personal details up.

LM 75. Interviews included 2 T10 and an Ivy. I'm not anyone's idea of diversity, nor am I someone that people take a look at and are likely to "feel bad for." In fact, I've actually dealt with a lot of trauma in my life, including of the very worst sort quite recently, it just isn't rooted in poverty or discrimination, and it isn't my way to burden others with it. That just isn't the sort of applicant they want.

I also think that my affect, as someone with a non-trad background who doesn't surround myself with intellectuals or academics might stick out to adcoms like a sore thumb. I could be considered either of those things from my experiences, but my closest friends are those I've known since childhood, and I do consider people who are really more based in that milieu to be very often out of touch and quite self-righteous. I'm frankly disheartened by the overt politicization of medicine and the near-ubiquity of newspeak within it. It's become increasingly evident to me that the big lie is that the "new medicine" respects diversity of opinion.

 

[MrSlark]

One of my advisors recommended seeing if I could get a mentor to write a letter to schools I've been waitlisted at advocating for my candidacy. I've never of that before, I was wondering if trying to do that would be something seen favorably by admissions committees or if it probably wouldn't be looked at at all. If it matters, the people that I think would say yes to potentially writing me this type of letter don't have any connections that I'm aware of to the schools I've been waitlisted at.

 

[KnightDoc]

One of my advisors recommended seeing if I could get a mentor to write a letter to schools I've been waitlisted at advocating for my candidacy. I've never of that before, I was wondering if trying to do that would be something seen favorably by admissions committees or if it probably wouldn't be looked at at all. If it matters, the people that I think would say yes to potentially writing me this type of letter don't have any connections that I'm aware of to the schools I've been waitlisted at.

I'm not an expert, but I've also never heard of that. That sounds like an additional LOR, which, to my knowledge, has to go through AMCAS and has to be part of your file at the time it is initially reviewed. I think @gonnif is the resident expert on this. Hopefully he will weigh in! 🙂

 

[cardamom_coffee]

Adding to the previous question...was wondering if we can expect most of the movement to occur in the 1st week of May? Am tentatively setting May 7th as the day I will start the process of reapplication (coming up with school lists, etc.)--am continuing with my EC's and brainstorming PS ideas in the meantime, of course. Is that a reasonable plan?

 

[0rion]

Is there any significant amount of WL movement in late April (after the April 15 deadline when accepted applicants must narrow their acceptances down to three), or does the vast majority happen in May?

Based on what I have gathered from last year's threads, there isn't much waitlist movement around April 15th. I'm hopeful that, collectively, we can wish this into changing. The new traffic rules were unveiled for the 2018/19 cycle iirc and, with the pandemic the following year, we really don't have much to go on in terms of trends for how waitlist movement will occur.

I predict that we'll see more WL movement than last year around April 15th, but nothing near as significant as what will be seen around April 30th and early May. I am one of the believers that this year we'll see more WL movement, so keep fingers crossed.

 

[DilNyethescienceguy]

Based on what I have gathered from last year's threads, there isn't much waitlist movement around April 15th. I'm hopeful that, collectively, we can wish this into changing. The new traffic rules were unveiled for the 2018/19 cycle iirc and, with the pandemic the following year, we really don't have much to go on in terms of trends for how waitlist movement will occur.

I predict that we'll see more WL movement than last year around April 15th, but nothing near as significant as what will be seen around April 30th and early May. I am one of the believers that this year we'll see more WL movement, so keep fingers crossed.

I think someone earlier in this thread had average # of acceptances/accepted applicant data from the AAMC as of February. Comparing that metric historically is probably the best proxy for anticipated WL movement relative to years past.

 

[0rion]

I think someone earlier in this thread had average # of acceptances/accepted applicant data from the AAMC as of February. Comparing that metric historically is probably the best proxy for anticipated WL movement relative to years past.

Would you be able to point out what you are referring to specifically? I'm seeing what appears to be a lot of what you're referring to back on page 2 of this thread, I just was curious about which post exactly.

If you're referring to the post that said this year the average accepted student holds 7.8 As vs 2020's 6.5 As, wouldn't that mean we would be seeing more waitlist movement because they'll have to give up more of their acceptances over time?

Apologies, I'm new to a lot of this stuff.

 

[ilovelisa]

My post: 2020-2021 Waitlist Support Thread

This seems to suggest less waitlist movement since there's fewer acceptances per applicant? This is worrying

 

[0rion]

This seems to suggest less waitlist movement since there's fewer acceptances per applicant? This is worrying

It is.

Is there any truth to schools WL'ing more applicants due to students not really using the CYMS tool? Or is that purely speculation at this point with people seeming to be on more WLs?

 

[ohmggthissux]

It is.

Is there any truth to schools WL'ing more applicants due to students not really using the CYMS tool? Or is that purely speculation at this point with people seeming to be on more WLs?

At the same time though it says that there are fewer applicants with acceptances even though there are also fewer # of acceptances per applicants. This makes me think it's possible that fewer acceptances overall have been given out thus far and that this data is not worth reading into yet? Because how could there simultaneously be fewer accepted applicants AND fewer # of acceptances per applicant? It must just be overall lower so far right?

 

[DilNyethescienceguy]

At the same time though it says that there are fewer applicants with acceptances even though there are also fewer # of acceptances per applicants. This makes me think it's possible that fewer acceptances overall have been given out thus far and that this data is not worth reading into yet? Because how could there simultaneously be fewer accepted applicants AND fewer # of acceptances per applicant? It must just be overall lower so far right?

Agreed on all fronts. No sense stressing out at this point.

 

[KnightDoc]

Adding to the previous question...was wondering if we can expect most of the movement to occur in the 1st week of May? Am tentatively setting May 7th as the day I will start the process of reapplication (coming up with school lists, etc.)--am continuing with my EC's and brainstorming PS ideas in the meantime, of course. Is that a reasonable plan?

Absolutely, if you don't think you need to take the advice of @gonnif and many adcoms that applicants should strongly consider skipping a cycle before reapplying.

Most WL movement occurring the first week of May might be stretching it, since there will definitely be movement both before and after, but it's not crazy to be planning by then, if not sooner (like now! 🙂). AMCAS will open on 5/3, with first transmission on 5/27. By 5/27, you will have a very good idea whether you will be attending med school in 2021, and you should be prepared to submit by then, or soon thereafter, if you are not going to skip the next cycle.

 

[deme3]

Joining y’all here in the waitlist support group.! 4 interviews 3 waitlists and a deferral so hope that turns out a bit better, altho I’m not expecting anything. Comforting to see I’m not alone, but also hate to see it

 

[deleted1090502]

If anyone wants to look at some waitlist data and doesn't have access to MSAR, check out this link:

https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fastly.net/production/media/filer_public/37/04/3704b565-7282-45a5-905c-ca18cd9e472a/msar_waitlist_procedures_11_132_2020.pdf

 

[andrana14]

Really conflicted right now about whether to accept a new job offer that asked for a one-year commitment (no contract). In my case, they're sponsoring a visa for me which is huge. I know I shouldn't make a decision expecting to get off of a WL but how ****ty of a person would I be if I quit in July if I get in?

 

[KnightDoc]

Really conflicted right now about whether to accept a new job offer that asked for a one-year commitment (no contract). In my case, they're sponsoring a visa for me which is huge. I know I shouldn't make a decision expecting to get off of a WL but how ****ty of a person would I be if I quit in July if I get in?

Pretty. It costs them money to sponsor the visa, right? How do they get that back if you don't work the year? Are you sure there is no written commitment? Will you have to pay any financial penalties if you bail?