CAGE FIGHT: Case Western vs. Ohio State

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chemsmith

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Disclaimer: I know threads comparing Ohio schools have been done before. I have read them. I am looking for additional opinions.

These two schools are my choices, and I love 'em both. By some (seemingly intentional) stroke of fate both schools are holding their second looks on the same weekend, which of course compounds my problem even further since attending one but not the other will most certainly bias me towards that one school.

So here I am, asking for your opinions. Consensus from previous threads was that both schools are good and you will have equal opportunities at both, blah blah blah - which really doesn't help me at all.

I trust your opinions (sometimes) so please, if you were to decide between the two, which would you pick and why? Oh, and assume equal cost for the sake of argument.

Thank you for your patience
 
What're your thoughts on location? Having grown up in Ohio, I've always thought of Cbus as a younger, fun city and Cleveland a **** hole. EDIT: Also have you thought about the opportunities that the school provides outside of academics? eg would you be interested in going to OSU football games?
 
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My general opinion was that Case seemed more research oriented while Ohio State had more of a service vibe; maybe consider what you'd like to do more?
 
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I don't know much about Ohio State, but I absolutely loved CWRU's curriculum. Most afternoons free with lots of case-based learning (no pun intended 😳) - takes a pretty self-directed student but sounded awesome to me.
 
Disclaimer: I know threads comparing Ohio schools have been done before. I have read them. I am looking for additional opinions.

These two schools are my choices, and I love 'em both. By some (seemingly intentional) stroke of fate both schools are holding their second looks on the same weekend, which of course compounds my problem even further since attending one but not the other will most certainly bias me towards that one school.

So here I am, asking for your opinions. Consensus from previous threads was that both schools are good and you will have equal opportunities at both, blah blah blah - which really doesn't help me at all.

I trust your opinions (sometimes) so please, if you were to decide between the two, which would you pick and why? Oh, and assume equal cost for the sake of argument.

Thank you for your patience

Though tons of people would kill to be in your position, that's a pretty tough decision to make.

I agree, you're going to be fine wherever you go. If price, location, curriculum, class size, etc, has not made you chose one over the other, honestly I would say go wherever you felt more comfortable on your interview day. Every school has a certain "feel" about it. You're going to do the best where your personality 'fit in' the most. Be proactive - ask if you can get in contact with some students and talk to them, see what they like best and worst about it, etc etc. It might sound cheesy but really I think it comes down to a gut feeling.

My own opinion between these two schools -
To make some sweeping generalizations, I felt a lot more comfortable and welcomed when I interviewed at Case. Ohio State (though it was my "dream school" at the time) seemed somewhat more competitive and less "laid back" all around. These are my own perceptions from only spending a few hours there though -- so they could be totally wrong.

As far as location, I grew up in Cleveland and went to college at Ohio State in Columbus. Though I do resent Cleveland being called a sh*thole, I know there is reason why it does have that reputation. However I think lately Cleveland has been pretty "up and coming" and there are a lot of positive changes being made there, ESPECIALLY around the University Circle area where Case is located. Columbus has Ohio State so obviously you know it will be fun. To me there are equal pro's and cons of each city -- it would be hard for me to decide based on location alone.
 
"I want to go into academic medicine" ----> Case Western

"I want to enjoy medical school" ----> OSU
 
I loved OSU on my visit, the LSI curriculum gives you a ton of flexibility (e.g. online modules) students seemed laid back. Faculty was outstanding (the students I talked to had a lot of good to say). It is very much an academic institution with plenty of research. I don't really see how it could be a poor choice in academia, they have distinguished faculty in many disciplines (especially the heart hospital and children's hospital). That said Case is amazing too, but I don't think there is a significant difference between their ability to position one in academics (case is definitely slightly better known in academia, but not overwhelmingly so) They were also committed to moving up in the research rankings (back to their previous position in the 20s).

Overall, I just got a great feeling from everyone I talked to at Ohio State and I loved Columbus. It didn't seem overly competitive from what I saw, maybe a little bit in the upper quartile where merit money is available. Everyone seemed cooperative and the school has an amazing budget to do so much. Everything they do, they do big.

I'd love some current students to weigh in on competition and how the rank and h, hp, p, f being reported on the deans letter influences it.

I am actually facing a hard decision between Ohio State and one other great school much closer to home, so I'm interested in seeing what students have to say in this thread as well.

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Edit:I wish I had a dime for every time I said a variation of the word academic. 🙄
 
I don't think going to OSU means you can't go into academic medicine...

The first two years are drastically different. How do you feel about the LSI vs. the TBL style? Plus, locations are very different as others have said.

It doesn't, but Case has the better reputation for research.

Nevermind the Cleveland Clinic. That by itself would decide it for me if everything else (personal opinion, etc.) was equal.

I think the varying curriculums are incredibly overrated as a reason to choose one place over the other, unless you have a particular style that absolutely doesn't mesh with you. Most everyone has to transition into medical school and learn how to study again, and you'll adjust to fit whichever curriculum you end up picking.
 
It doesn't, but Case has the better reputation for research.

Nevermind the Cleveland Clinic. That by itself would decide it for me if everything else (personal opinion, etc.) was equal.

I think the varying curriculums are incredibly overrated as a reason to choose one place over the other, unless you have a particular style that absolutely doesn't mesh with you. Most everyone has to transition into medical school and learn how to study again, and you'll adjust to fit whichever curriculum you end up picking.

Some people will never like the TBL style. Just wait until you've tried it.

I must preface this by saying my friends at CW love it as the school has been doing it for a long time and makes it go really smoothly, so it probably isn't that big of a deal.

I really don't think the research is that big of a difference. It's not like PD's care that much who you worked with and both institutions have ample amounts of research. I can't argue with the fact that CW has more prestige associated with their name overall.
 
I'm actually making the same decision you are. I think I'm going to go with Case because
1. I know a few kids at each school and while everyone says they love the school they're at I've heard more things I like about Case, specifically the learning environment and the collaboration and helpfulness among students.
2. Cleveland, especially the area that Case is in, is not a sh*thole.
3. Contrary to what bearstronaut said, you will have fun at both schools and Case is obviously not only for those that want to go into academic medicine.
 
Columbus is not a great city to live in as a student. It's very boring (although I could see myself settling down in UA or something when I'm old) and public transportation isn't that reliable. In the immediate campus area, you have really crappy bars and food (except for Chipotle and Panera), grocery stores are kind of far, and there isn't really a whole lot to do on campus either. The area around the medical school isn't the safest, and there've been a lot of car/house/apartment break-ins in the area (look up the story of the dead homeless guy two kids found in their apartment).

The school itself is great though, and a lot of students who got into the combined undergrad/medical school program (before it was phased out) have chosen to stay on, rather than apply out. I'm just an undergrad though, so I don't know much about the med curriculum and how it works. The hospital facility is amazing though, and the new building will be ready in about a year or so for you to use 😀

Also, I don't know how much this matters to you, but I work at the OSU Medical Center and the nurses and other non-physician staff members have a very poor opinion of how OSU trains their medical students...basically the thought is that OSU teaches its students to get out of a patient's room as fast as possible and go do better things, and to make sure that patients talk as little as possible so that you can get out as fast as you can.
 
Columbus is not a great city to live in as a student. It's very boring (although I could see myself settling down in UA or something when I'm old) and public transportation isn't that reliable. In the immediate campus area, you have really crappy bars and food (except for Chipotle and Panera), grocery stores are kind of far, and there isn't really a whole lot to do on campus either. The area around the medical school isn't the safest, and there've been a lot of car/house/apartment break-ins in the area (look up the story of the dead homeless guy two kids found in their apartment).

The school itself is great though, and a lot of students who got into the combined undergrad/medical school program (before it was phased out) have chosen to stay on, rather than apply out. I'm just an undergrad though, so I don't know much about the med curriculum and how it works. The hospital facility is amazing though, and the new building will be ready in about a year or so for you to use 😀

Also, I don't know how much this matters to you, but I work at the OSU Medical Center and the nurses and other non-physician staff members have a very poor opinion of how OSU trains their medical students...basically the thought is that OSU teaches its students to get out of a patient's room as fast as possible and go do better things, and to make sure that patients talk as little as possible so that you can get out as fast as you can.

As someone who went to OSU as an undergrad I couldn't disagree more with you on Columbus being a boring city. It's not NYC, Chicago, or LA by any means but it for sure has as much going on as cinci and cleveland... And there is for sure more to do on campus at OSU than almost any other campus I have ever been to, do you just never get out or what?

OUAB is a university organization that puts on tons of stuff for OSU. http://ouab.osu.edu/browse_event.aspx
We have SNL's Bill Hader coming here. Next month we have Kendrick Lamer and Steve Aoki coming to fundraise for Buckeyethon. Last year we had tons of performers come that OSU gave students deeply discounted tickets to. There are also HUNDREDS of student clubs you are free to join associated with the undergrad campus. Some of my friends have joined the korean american club and indian clubs.

During the summer there are VERY cheap tickets to the columbus clippers games and during the NHL season they almost given away tickets to the columbus blue jackets for free. Many of the medical students go to bar's in the short north which is very close to the medical center and has some of the best food in columbus. It is literally a five minute bus ride (which we have unlimited access to as students) to some of the best bars and food in columbus (sushi rock, Martini, etc, etc...) during the summer there are endless festivals such as the asian festival, jazz and rib fest, gay pride festivals, the state fair is in columbus and very close to campus and so on and so on. Not to mention OSU has some of the best gym facilities in the world (and that is not an exaggeration). There is also intramural going on for something, all the time. I have done soccer twice this year already and there are many other medical students who do two or three intramurals at a time.

Columbus is the biggest city in Ohio and is the cultural hub of the state, it has a much younger population than either cinci or cleveland. Obama visited here TWICE during the election cycle and is speaking for our graduation this spring. What other university in ohio (Or the US?) can say that? Housing is crappy immediately adjacent to the medical center but many medical students live in the much nicer victoria village or the short north.

Also, don't listen to the nurses about how medical students should be trained. I assure you they aren't the best judges of that...

Edit: there is also a kroger on high and king that many medical students go to. It is literally a 2 minute walk from my apartment.
 
Thank you all for the responses thus far, they have been informative and interesting.

I know that a large component of my decision will be the difference in curriculum. As a strongly motivated self leaner, there are aspects of Case's PBL that both appeal to me and make me hesitant. However, I am having trouble understanding just what Ohio State's LSI is all about. Since they got rid of the up front anatomy block and made anatomy longitudinal throughout the first two years isn't LSI nearly identical to the western reserve 2 curriculum, only varying in the time spent in PBL type teams?

Which curriculum would you say allows more free time for self-studying, gym time, etc. ?
 
Which curriculum would you say allows more free time for self-studying, gym time, etc. ?

I am not in LSI so sorry I cant be of more help. Here is a sample week. http://medicine.osu.edu/students/lsi_curriculum/Documents/Sample%20Curricular%20Week.pdf

The M1s have a ton more stuff in the afternoons than I do. They have a bunch of required clinical skills stuff each week. I don't know much about case's weekly structure. I would guess if you value more time outside of class lean towards Case.
 
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I am not in LSI so sorry I cant be of more help. Here is a sample week. http://medicine.osu.edu/students/lsi_curriculum/Documents/Sample%20Curricular%20Week.pdf

The M1s have a ton more stuff in the afternoons than I do. They have a bunch of required clinical skills stuff each week. I don't know much about case's weekly structure. I would guess if you value more time outside of class lean towards Case.

Thank you for your responses. Yes, I was looking at the sample week and the other LSI online materials earlier today. Some of the components included in the sample week had time lengths and others did not, hence why I was a little confused. I think that LSI does seem like it thoroughly prepares for step 1 even if it involves more structured time.
 
I agree, for a medium sized city, Columbus was awesome (I visit friends there often). I'm from one of the cities that everyone always makes a big deal about, and trust me even huge cities can lose there shine after you've been there long enough. Just the OSU campus itself offers more than the cities of most medical schools I interviewed at. Columbus has its charm (and it's far enough away from the lakes that a boat load of Lake effect doesn't get dumped on it) Also, most students I talked to in the medical school lived in Victorian Village and felt very safe. There is also very little violent crime (high theft, property damage etc but relatively low violent crime)
I think nurses complaining that schools don't teach doctors to spend enough time with a patient is a fairly typical sentiment everywhere.
There is a video about LSI on the site. I was told that it allows a lot of independence due to interactive online modules (one married student lived a half hour away and only came in for tests and his clinical longitudinal) from what I remember the mandatory clinical is only 1 or 2 times a week.

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To add on
I am going with Case because of the overall gut feeling of the interview day.
Also I have a few friends who are there right now and they love how nice and relaxed it is.
Also for me it is close to home but still far enough away

For the curriculum, I loved loved the IQ teams because it is a lot like how some of my upper level sciences were taught and I thought it worked very well for me.
Also the free time works for me because I feel like I can learn more if I choose how to learn the material.
Additionally, the clinical training seems amazing. You get to rotate at Cleveland Clinic, Case's Hospital, or Metrohealth.
I am looking forward to Second Look to learn even more.
 
I am actually facing a hard decision between Ohio State and one other great school much closer to home
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Me too, I've made lists, gone over every detail and it keeps coming to a tie.

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One of the attendings on here was giving some advice to ppl ranking residency programs, basically the quote was

"flip a coin, while it's in the air, you'll know which one you're hoping for"
 
One of the attendings on here was giving some advice to ppl ranking residency programs, basically the quote was

"flip a coin, while it's in the air, you'll know which one you're hoping for"

😀 that's good advice-I'll have to try it. It just seems like their is no wrong answer between these two schools for me-which I am greatful for-but it doesn't make choosing easier (1st world problems 🙄 ) lol

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US news releases 2014 rankings in less than two weeks. It will be interesting to see if there are any major changes from the last year's rankings. I know these rankings are to an extent arbitrary but people do pay attention to them and they are a factor (albeit a small one) to consider when comparing programs.
 
As a current Case student I think you are right to base a large portion of your decision on the curriculum. The IQ style is very unique and is certainly not for everyone. I am also an independent learner and was very apprehensive about the TBL based curriculum but have actually loved it. We have so much free time that the curriculum is very well suited toward this learning style. Here is a sample schedule for Case since you had one for OSU posted already.

Monday: 8-10am IQ, 10-12am lecture
Tuesday: 8-10am Foundations of Clinical Medicine, 10-12am histopath/anatomy
Wednesday: Same as Monday
Thursday: Optional lecture from 8am-Noon
Friday: Same as Monday

As you can see, lots of free time. One thing to point out however is that attendance on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday is REQUIRED. So while you have a lot of free time, you also have more commitment than most other schools, and also, you can forget about long weekend trips.

Honestly, if I had had the choice between the two I would have chosen OSU due to it being drastically cheaper (and this is coming from a Wolverine). However, I would hold out to see if you get any financial aid because if money is equal, then I think Case has the upper hand. And as for location, I would say that Cleveland and Columbus are pretty comparable on the sh*thole scale. However, both places will have something for you provided you go looking.
 
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What didyou think?

I was pretty set on case before second look, but that weekend really sold me. After receiving my financial aid, attending a state school wouldn't have been much cheaper and I really do think Case's name will help in the future. I also absolutely love the curriculum and the minimal time spent in class, as I learn well on my own.
 
What didyou think?

I was pretty set on case before second look, but that weekend really sold me. After receiving my financial aid, attending a state school wouldn't have been much cheaper and I really do think Case's name will help in the future. I also absolutely love the curriculum and the minimal time spent in class, as I learn well on my own.


Sorry for the late reply, didnt see your post. Yeah, I really like Case's curriculum as well. I just think that I might be happier in columbus than cleveland for 4 years. I do value Case's prestige but I also think that OSU has been on the come up lately. I mean, its not like we are comparing Case and neomed. This is a tough one for sure.
 
Sorry for the late reply, didnt see your post. Yeah, I really like Case's curriculum as well. I just think that I might be happier in columbus than cleveland for 4 years. I do value Case's prestige but I also think that OSU has been on the come up lately. I mean, its not like we are comparing Case and neomed. This is a tough one for sure.

Think about it this way, what the one thing you will be doing more off in med school, studying, so does it really matter what city you do it in, when you are going to be inside most of the time anyways.
 
Think about it this way, what the one thing you will be doing more off in med school, studying, so does it really matter what city you do it in, when you are going to be inside most of the time anyways.

Disagree. If all you do is study, and that is up to you, you will be bored very quickly. Some people say that your success at school will not depend on your studies, but rather what you do with your spare time, so you can recharge your batteries for studying.

You will definitely know what city you are in.
 
Sorry for the late reply, didnt see your post. Yeah, I really like Case's curriculum as well. I just think that I might be happier in columbus than cleveland for 4 years. I do value Case's prestige but I also think that OSU has been on the come up lately. I mean, its not like we are comparing Case and neomed. This is a tough one for sure.

Serious question: what's wrong with Neomed? Just curious.
 
Serious question: what's wrong with Neomed? Just curious.

I never said anything was wrong with it.

I meant to say that the difference in ranking between ohio state and case western is nearly negligible for most purposes. But if I were to compare one of those schools to neomed (an unranked school) then the difference in ranking and prestige is very large and it may thus be an important factor in the decision. I was just using neomed for the sake of argument and because it is also in ohio
 
Disagree. If all you do is study, and that is up to you, you will be bored very quickly. Some people say that your success at school will not depend on your studies, but rather what you do with your spare time, so you can recharge your batteries for studying.

You will definitely know what city you are in.

Look carefully, I didn't say all you will do is study, I just said a lot of your time will be spent studying. And Case gets off at noon pretty much everyday, and Thursdays are optional, so they have plenty of time to study and do extracurriculars.
 
Sorry for the late reply, didnt see your post. Yeah, I really like Case's curriculum as well. I just think that I might be happier in columbus than cleveland for 4 years. I do value Case's prestige but I also think that OSU has been on the come up lately.

I meant to say that the difference in ranking between ohio state and case western is nearly negligible for most purposes. But if I were to compare one of those schools to neomed (an unranked school) then the difference in ranking and prestige is very large and it may thus be an important factor in the decision.

If you truly feel this way, I think that you have already settled on Ohio state. If you feel like there is no prestige difference between the two schools and you really will be happier in Columbus, then go where you will be happy. I don't think that any of us will tell you to go somewhere where you wouldn't be happy.

Anyways, given that the decision date for case is tomorrow, I'm sure that you've already decided on where to go by now.
 
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