Case (with money) vs UCLA vs UVA

[ClarKent]

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I withdrew from Pitt (because its not entirely p/f), Tufts (too expensive) and my state school already. I got a 25,000/year merit scholarship from Case, and I was wondering if that would make it a nobrainer to pick over UCLA and UVA (OOS for both), which will not be giving me money.

I am also waitlisted at some schools (columbia, WashU and a couple others), but am thinking about withdrawing from all but WashU. If I got in to WashU, would it make sense to choose it over Case with money?

 

[alibai3ah]

In my opinion, it's for sure not a no brainer. I would pick UCLA despite the 25K scholarship. I know that's tough to just give up, but I feel like UCLA would give you a much higher chance at a Cali residency (if that's what you want). Plus UCLA is a significantly better location (I wouldn't want to be miserable in Ohio). And UCLA beats the other two schools in reputation/prestige as well. So I would swallow the extra debt, for UCLA. But that's just me 🙂

 

[jturkel]

25k a yr at a top tier school? avoid the debt, follow the money....and go to case.

 

[ilovebear]

if you want a cali residency then go for ucla. if you dont care, then go for case.

 

[pumpkin patch]

You didn't mention if you're a Cali resident or not, but if you are, the cost between Case and UCLA should be comparable (with your scholarship). Go with your gut feeling, and pick the place where you'll be happy! In the long run, there's not much difference.

 

[ClarKent]

You didn't mention if you're a Cali resident or not, but if you are, the cost between Case and UCLA should be comparable (with your scholarship). Go with your gut feeling, and pick the place where you'll be happy! In the long run, there's not much difference.

Hey, I mentioned I was OOS for both UVA and UCLA.

 

[metallica81788]

Hey, ClarKent. Long time no see.

I don't know what you should do, but I really liked UVA and wish I could have gotten in there. That being said, Case did give you money. It is in Cleveland, though. 👎 You might like CVille or LA better.

If you're following money, go Case.

 

[Myuu]

Why does everyone hate on Cleveland? It's not Charlottesville, for crying out loud...

Cleveland might not be LA, but it's still a nice place and a lot cheaper for sure.👍

(Disclaimer: As a Case student, I will invariably push you in the direction of Case.😍 Unless, of course, UCLA is your dream school and you liked the environment there better. In which case, ignore the money and go where you'd be happiest.)

 

[Steeler7588]

Where are you from? Home state and college... basically, where is your support system located?

Also, what did you like about the schools? Btw, I don't believe UVA has given out many scholarships yet and no financial aid packages have been calculated, so I'd wait for final word from them.

 

[ClarKent]

Hey, ClarKent. Long time no see.

I don't know what you should do, but I really liked UVA and wish I could have gotten in there. That being said, Case did give you money. It is in Cleveland, though. 👎 You might like CVille or LA better.

If you're following money, go Case.

Hey whats up man. Yeah, I remember when we were interviewing at UVA, it seemed amazing. But, at the same, I don't know if I can take on that much debt when I have the option not to at a school that I like equally as much. I guess I'll have to brave the Cleveland weather haha.

Anyways, I'll be visiting Louisiana soon, and I can't wait!

Where are you from? Home state and college... basically, where is your support system located?

Also, what did you like about the schools? Btw, I don't believe UVA has given out many scholarships yet and no financial aid packages have been calculated, so I'd wait for final word from them.

I'm from CT, so UCLA would be far far away from the "support system." But Case and UVA would be pretty much equidistant to friends and family. My girlfriend actually got into the same schools and got the same scholarship, so that definitely helps in terms of that.

As for UVA merit aid, I guess I should wait a bit longer. I'm positive that I won't be getting any type of need based aid though :/.

 

[ApoK]

Hey whats up man. Yeah, I remember when we were interviewing at UVA, it seemed amazing. But, at the same, I don't know if I can take on that much debt when I have the option not to at a school that I like equally as much. I guess I'll have to brave the Cleveland weather haha.

Anyways, I'll be visiting Louisiana soon, and I can't wait!




I'm from CT, so UCLA would be far far away from the "support system." But Case and UVA would be pretty much equidistant to friends and family. My girlfriend actually got into the same schools and got the same scholarship, so that definitely helps in terms of that.

As for UVA merit aid, I guess I should wait a bit longer. I'm positive that I won't be getting any type of need based aid though :/.

UCLA trumps the other two schools in every conceivable way. Also, you can become in-state after a year in CA, right? That's how it was at least for UCSF students... I imagine it's the same for UCLA kids too. The low CA in-state tuition completely negates the Case cost advantage. Also, even with 100k extra, UCLA so much better that I'd definitely take the debt. Cleveland is horrible... just awful... and Lebron is leaving so there is really is no reason to go there!

lol, ironically, this is coming from someone who was accepted to Case and UVa but declined his OOS interview invite to UCLA (lack of funds...).

 

[ClarKent]

UCLA trumps the other two schools in every conceivable way. Also, you can become in-state after a year in CA, right? That's how it was at least for UCSF students... I imagine it's the same for UCLA kids too. The low CA in-state tuition completely negates the Case cost advantage. Also, even with 100k extra, UCLA so much better that I'd definitely take the debt. Cleveland is horrible... just awful... and Lebron is leaving so there is really is no reason to go there!

lol, ironically, this is coming from someone who was accepted to Case and UVa but declined his OOS interview invite to UCLA (lack of funds...).

According to the UCLA website, its difficult to get instate tuition. You have to prove you're financially independent from your parents (meaning you have to get loans out for everything), and I would still like my parent to pay for my living costs, insurance, etc. UCLA OOS tution should be around 35,000 (if you take out the 5,000 everyone gets), but the housing is significantly more expensive than the other two schools. With that said, UCLA is definitely considered more prestigious and is in a better location. But is that worth the extra money I have to pay?

Also, one thing I didn't like about UCLA was how disorganized their admissions committee/office was. It seemed like they had no idea when decisions would be released, and didn't give me my decision until over a month after they said they would (some people seem to have been waiting for 6 months+ without decisions). It seemed like the decisions had to run through many different committees or something. I have an uneasy feeling that UCLA's other departments may be this bureaucratic and disorganized.

 

[metallica81788]

I would do Case. LA is really expensive, I think.

You get a nice school for like 20k/year and pretty cheap living expenses.

Congrats on your gf getting all the good acceptances, too.

 

[ClarKent]

I would do Case. LA is really expensive, I think.

You get a nice school for like 20k/year and pretty cheap living expenses.

Congrats on your gf getting all the good acceptances, too.

Thanks man. I guess me and her are just really similar candidates, haha.

 

[Meat]

I would do Case. LA is really expensive, I think.

You get a nice school for like 20k/year and pretty cheap living expenses.

Congrats on your gf getting all the good acceptances, too.

I currently live in LA and will be attending Case in the Fall. I won't comment on the merits of each school, as I wasn't invited for an interview in LA, however, cost wise:

I live in a 1 bedroom with my girl in an extremely cheap (for the area) apartment just a few minutes east of LA. Our rent is $1,100 a month + utilities (really hot in the summer). Everything is expensive here, be it food, gas and entertainment, even more so in the city.

When I visited Cleveland I consistently saw Case students renting for ~ half of what I do, it just blew my mind.

Everyone bags on Cleveland, but have you been to Los Angeles? Sure, there are some rich areas, but LA isn't all Hollywood and Pasadena, there are some pretty ugly parts

 

[ClarKent]

I currently live in LA and will be attending Case in the Fall. I won't comment on the merits of each school, as I wasn't invited for an interview in LA, however, cost wise:

I live in a 1 bedroom with my girl in an extremely cheap (for the area) apartment just a few minutes east of LA. Our rent is $1,100 a month + utilities (really hot in the summer). Everything is expensive here, be it food, gas and entertainment, even more so in the city.

When I visited Cleveland I consistently saw Case students renting for ~ half of what I do, it just blew my mind.

Everyone bags on Cleveland, but have you been to Los Angeles? Sure, there are some rich areas, but LA isn't all Hollywood and Pasadena, there are some pretty ugly parts

Your sdn name and picture are making me want to go grill some steak...good thing I got some in the freezer 😎

 

[justinbaily]

Wait on the UVA aid before making a decision. You could also give them a call and explain that you would love to go to their school, but have a great financial offer from Case that's difficult to turn down. They may be willing to take that into consideration. I would personally be happiest at UVA with the beautful campus, relaxing environment and updated facilities. They're all strong research-intensive schools and I don't believe that you would be losing anything by choosing any of them.

If they were all the same price, then I would personally be between UVA and UCLA. Then I would consider which place would make me happier and if I prefered to be on the west coast or the east coast.

 

[BlueElmo]

With the money you're getting from Case, I would choose Case.

 

[vc7777]

I challenge the pre-med formulated idea that going to medical school in a particular state inherently increases your chances that you can do a residency there or vice-versa that if you are out-of-state for medical school it will hurt your chances getting a residency later on. That doesn't hold water, IMHO.

I see plenty of Case students matching into programs in CA this year.

Most importantly, Case will not limit you personally on where you end up. Your scores on your Step 1 and 2 are yours to screw up or crush. So are your rotations and LORs. There are plenty of people at Case that wind up in California by choice. Come here or don't come here OP. But don't make that decision based on the silly notion you will not be able to get a residency back home.

This is the match list for all c/o 2010 grads of Case (UP + CCLCM + MSTP):

Anesthesiology:
Stanford University
Cedars-Sinai Medical Center
Maine Medical Center

Derm:
University of Texas Southwestern
University of Texas Southwestern

EM:
University Hospital, Cincinnati
Brigham & Women's Hospital
Johns Hopkins University
Virginia Commonwealth University
Hennepin County Medical Center
Hennepin County Medical Center
Brigham & Women's Hospital
University of California, San Francisco

Family Med:
Oregon Health & Science University
Lancaster General Hospital
Family Medicine Residency of Idaho
Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania
University Hospitals/Case
Christiana Care

Gen Surg:
University of Colorado
Wright State University
Mt. Sinai Hospital
University Hospitals/Case
Duke University
University of Michigan
Massachusetts General Hospital
Cleveland Clinic
Cleveland Clinic
University Hospitals/Case
University of Washington
Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center
University Hospitals/Case
University of California, San Francisco
University of Colorado
St. Elizabeth Hospital

IM:
University of Southern California
Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania
University of California, Los Angeles
California Pacific Medical Center
Duke University
New York Presbyterian/Cornell
Brigham & Women's Hospital
Barnes-Jewish Hospital
University of Chicago
University of Colorado
Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania
New York Presbyterian/Cornell
Massachusetts General Hospital
Mayo School of Graduate Medical Education
Oregon Health & Science University
Johns Hopkins University
Massachusetts General Hospital
Yale University
University of Michigan
MetroHealth Medical Center
St. Mary Medical Center
University of Washington
University of Alabama
University of Washington
University Hospitals/Case
Cleveland Clinic
University of Colorado
Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania
University of California, San Francisco
University of Vermont
Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania
Methodist Hospital

Neuro:
Yale University
Massachusetts General Hospital
Massachusetts General Hospital

Neurosurg:
Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania
University of Utah
St. Joseph's Hospital
Oregon Health & Science University
University Hospitals/Case

OB/gyn:
University of Chicago
Northwestern University/McGaw
University of Texas Southwestern
Duke University
University of California, San Francisco
MetroHealth Medical Center
Barnes-Jewish Hospital
Boston University Medical Center
University of Alabama
Northwestern University/McGaw

Ophtho:
Northwestern University
Georgetown University
University of Southern California
University Hospitals/Case
University of Texas Southwestern

Ortho:
Cleveland Clinic
Ohio State University
Hospital for Special Surgery
Baylor College of Medicine
Wright State University
University of Rochester/Strong Memorial
University of Maryland
NYU School of Medicine
Rhode Island Hospital/Brown University
National Capital Consortium
Rush University

ENT:
Oregon Health & Science University
Stanford University
Barnes-Jewish Hospital
Baylor College of Medicine
Massachusetts Eye and Ear Infirmary
Cleveland Clinic
University of New Mexico
University Hospitals/Case

Path:
Massachusetts General Hospital
Barnes-Jewish Hospital
New York Presbyterian/Cornell

Peds:
Cincinnati Children's Hospital
University of Pittsburgh
Children's Hospital Boston
University Hospitals/Case
Children's Hospital Philadelphia
University Hospitals/Case
University of Washington
Vanderbilt University
The Hospital for Sick Children
Johns Hopkins University
Stanford University
University of Pittsburgh
Cincinnati Children's Hospital
Wright State University

Child Neuro: Johns Hopkins University

PM&R:
Stanford University
VA Greater Los Angeles Health System
University of Pittsburgh

Plastic Surgery:
University Hospitals/Case
University Hospitals/Case

Psych:
Medical College of Georgia
University of Pittsburgh

Rads:
Emory University
University of North Carolina
Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center
University Hospitals/Case
University Hospitals/Case
University of Washington
Harbor- UCLA
Loyola University
University of New Mexico
University of Chicago
University of Colorado
Mayo School of Graduate Medical Education
Kaiser Permanent, Southern California
Northwestern University/McGaw
Duke University
University of California, Los Angeles

Rad Onc: University of Utah

Urology: Lahey Clinic

Vascular Surgery: University of Pittsburgh

Transitional (Preventive Med): SUMMA Health

 

[FluffyRabbit]

I challenge the pre-med formulated idea that going to medical school in a particular state inherently increases your chances that you can do a residency there or vice-versa that if you are out-of-state for medical school it will hurt your chances getting a residency later on. That doesn't hold water, IMHO.

I see plenty of Case students matching into programs in CA this year.

Most importantly, Case will not limit you personally on where you end up. Your scores on your Step 1 and 2 are yours to screw up or crush. There are plenty of people at Case that wind up in California by choice. Come here, don't come here OP. But don't make that decision based on the silly notion you will not be able to get a residency back home.

There is an advantage, but it's not terribly significant. It's easier to network and make connections if it's your own institution, where you'll likely end up knowing the attendings/residents pretty well. It's the same reason why people do away rotations at the places they want to go.

There is self selection, but when the rest of your class wants to match in California and everyone is applying to the same places, you'll possibly get more support and advice from them.

If I'm not mistaken, residency programs, much like medical schools, like seeing students that want to go there. If I was born in California, grew up, went to college, and medical school there, it would be difficult for me to convince an East Coast program that they weren't just my backup. The converse is likely true - CA programs will probably know they are high up my list.

That being said, Case is well regarded enough that you won't have an issue matching in CA provided you did reasonably well. There are so many other factors that are so much more important - cost of attendance, curriculum, location (for four years), etc. that the above shouldn't be a big part of your decision.

 

[vc7777]

Hey Fluffy!

Excellent points

There is an advantage, but it's not terribly significant. It's easier to network and make connections if it's your own institution, where you'll likely end up knowing the attendings/residents pretty well. It's the same reason why people do away rotations at the places they want to go.

I agree that if you are trying to get into your our health system associated with the medical school you can't do better than that. But the argument has been at the state level, not at the school/hospital level.
Right, but you CAN complete away rotations for that very reason. I think the personal connections you make trump what state your medical school is located in. And I understand your Step scores may even trump your medical school, for that matter.

There is self selection, but when the rest of your class wants to match in California and everyone is applying to the same places, you'll possibly get more support and advice from them.

Yes, there is self-selection. But once again, that isn't the assertion. The assertion is that the IS/OOS status of your med school is significant to competitiveness. Just because Case isn't in California doesn't preclude them from being competitive in the State.

I am not sure I understand your argument re: support from your peers, maybe you can elaborate?

If I'm not mistaken, residency programs, much like medical schools, like seeing students that want to go there. If I was born in California, grew up, went to college, and medical school there, it would be difficult for me to convince an East Coast program that they weren't just my backup. The converse is likely true - CA programs will probably know they are high up my list.

Good point, I can see if you are In-state all the way that you will have an advantage because your story will be 'coherent'. Still I am not sure how you can prove/disprove this. Like you said that advantage may be small at best?

That being said, Case is well regarded enough that you won't have an issue matching in CA provided you did reasonably well. There are so many other factors that are so much more important - cost of attendance, curriculum, location (for four years), etc. that the above shouldn't be a big part of your decision.

👍 Well put, my furry friend!

[OP - sorry the Case kids are highjacking your thread! ]

 

[ClarKent]

Most importantly, Case will not limit you personally on where you end up. Your scores on your Step 1 and 2 are yours to screw up or crush. So are your rotations and LORs. There are plenty of people at Case that wind up in California by choice. Come here or don't come here OP. But don't make that decision based on the silly notion you will not be able to get a residency back home.

Hey just wanted to let you know that I am not making my decision based on that at all. I believe that is the topic of another thread ("UCI vs Case").

 

[vc7777]

Hey just wanted to let you know that I am not making my decision based on that at all. I believe that is the topic of another thread ("UCI vs Case").

😳 Like I said, didn't mean to highjack...Sorry, ClarKent! I was responding to other posts within your thread, though. Yes, the same assertion was made in both threads - neither time by you. But you know what they say about us: "We's Case Western folks - An' we's fights alot!"

Moving on: do you have your award letters from each school in hand yet? I don't think you could do wrong at any of those schools. But I would opt for the lowest cost once you have concrete numbers to work with.

 

[ClarKent]

😳 Like I said, didn't mean to highjack...Sorry, ClarKent! I was responding to other posts within your thread, though. Yes, the same assertion was made in both threads - neither time by you. But you know what they say about us: "We's Case Western folks - An' we's fights alot!"

Moving on: do you have your award letters from each school in hand yet? I don't think you could do wrong at any of those schools. But I would opt for the lowest cost once you have concrete numbers to work with.

No award letters yet because I haven't done my financial aid forms for these schools yet. But I am positive that I won't be receiving any need based assistance from any one of them. So, financially, it just comes down to merit aid.

 

[CCLCMer]

No award letters yet because I haven't done my financial aid forms for these schools yet. But I am positive that I won't be receiving any need based assistance from any one of them. So, financially, it just comes down to merit aid.

I want to be the first to welcome you to the Dark Side.

Seriously, ClarKent, you should come to Case. It's a lot cheaper, it's P/F, it's closer to your family, and your girlfriend can come with you. What more could you want? 😀

 

[vc7777]

No award letters yet because I haven't done my financial aid forms for these schools yet. But I am positive that I won't be receiving any need based assistance from any one of them. So, financially, it just comes down to merit aid.

Well assuming no other merit aid, AND your GF got the same merit aid at Case? Did I read that correctly?

I think it is a double no-brainer. ClarKent needs to stay behind, give up his superpowers (UCLA) and marry (go to the same school as) Lois Lane - a la Superman II - the 1980 movie...$200k is a heck of a lot of money to turn down regardless what school you two would end up at.

I don't know why Fluffy and I can't have a beer with you after the white-coat ceremony in July...both of you!
EDIT: ...and Meat and CCLCMer...and Myuu...can't have a drink of choice with you two in July...

 

[FluffyRabbit]

I am not sure I understand your argument re: support from your peers, maybe you can elaborate?

What I meant was that it helps when the people around you have similar goals, because you can talk to them about the various programs and you'll be more aware of little nuances - for example, I would have not known that UCSF IM only interviews kids with Honors in IM had I not talked to a resident from a UC school. If everyone in your class wants to go to the East Coast, you'll feel a little more isolated - kind of like wanting to do radiology when everyone in your class wants to do PC.

Still, the point is any advantage you get is unlikely to be significant, so pick based on things that you actually care about.

[OP - sorry the Case kids are highjacking your thread! ]

Is there any wonder why our thread is by far the longest? 😀

I want to be the first to welcome you to the Dark Side.

Seriously, ClarKent, you should come to Case. It's a lot cheaper, it's P/F, it's closer to your family, and your girlfriend can come with you. What more could you want? 😀

I'm in line. 🙂

 

[Appless]

If money were equal id say UCLA, but that 25k scholarship is crazy. Becuase of the money its a no brainer case. Case is equally as well regarded basically as ucla in the medical world and its not like its going to hold you back in any way. Combine that with the free money and for me id be packing my bags to clevaland.

 

[SpaceDementia]

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[Steeler7588]

What did you like about each school?

I don't know if I can take on that much debt when I have the option not to at a school that I like equally as much.

If you liked Case and UVA the same, then the financial difference seems like it'd be a pretty easy decision between those two. I'd say you liked UCLA more for this to be a difficult decision, then?

Personally speaking, UCLA would be too far away from my family / friends, but then again I wouldn't want to live in Cleveland / Ohio / the Midwest either. I'd rank them UVA > UCLA > Case, just because I really like the 1.5 curriculum format at UVA and I can't be that far away from a beach in Cleveland. But those are my personal feelings about the schools - without telling us what you liked about each, it's hard to give you advice when the only thing sticking out is the $100k scholarship at Case.

 

[ilovebear]

so had this thread helped you come to a decision?

 

[alibai3ah]

I challenge the pre-med formulated idea that going to medical school in a particular state inherently increases your chances that you can do a residency there or vice-versa that if you are out-of-state for medical school it will hurt your chances getting a residency later on. That doesn't hold water, IMHO.

I see plenty of Case students matching into programs in CA this year.

Most importantly, Case will not limit you personally on where you end up. Your scores on your Step 1 and 2 are yours to screw up or crush. So are your rotations and LORs. There are plenty of people at Case that wind up in California by choice. Come here or don't come here OP. But don't make that decision based on the silly notion you will not be able to get a residency back home.

Showing us the match list doesn't mean much, b/c it doesn't show how many people DIDN'T get into Cailfornia. There is no way to gauge that.

What I'm saying with UCLA is that you don't have to make that gamble. It's a near guarantee that you will. Anyone who says that the region you go to school doesn't matter is lying. It does matter.

Can you get into California from Case? Sure. Does everyone get in? We don't know....However, with UCLA you do know (unless you really screw up there).

My reasons were also based on location. I personally would be miserable in Cleveland but Los Angeles (especially Westwood area) is really nice.

 

[alibai3ah]

If money were equal id say UCLA, but that 25k scholarship is crazy. Becuase of the money its a no brainer case. Case is equally as well regarded basically as ucla in the medical world and its not like its going to hold you back in any way. Combine that with the free money and for me id be packing my bags to clevaland.

I disagree, I think UCLA is regarded as the better school and hospital. Case is a solid mid-tier school. I put UCLA with the likes of Harvard, Hopkins, UCSF, Stanford, etc.

 

[bobsmith]

Showing us the match list doesn't mean much, b/c it doesn't show how many people DIDN'T get into Cailfornia. There is no way to gauge that.

What I'm saying with UCLA is that you don't have to make that gamble. It's a near guarantee that you will. Anyone who says that the region you go to school doesn't matter is lying. It does matter.

Can you get into California from Case? Sure. Does everyone get in? We don't know....However, with UCLA you do know (unless you really screw up there).

My reasons were also based on location. I personally would be miserable in Cleveland but Los Angeles (especially Westwood area) is really nice.

First of all, this entire argument is unnecessary because the OP specifically indicated that (1) he's not from California and (2) matching into California isn't something that he's considering when making his decision at all.

That being said, I think your argument that you "just don't know how many people didn't match into the area they wanted" could potentially be used both ways. I mean, can you -- just by looking at the UCLA match list -- tell me that every single person that wanted to match in the northeast was able to do so? I bet this sounds insane to you since you clearly love UCLA ("of course they were able to! they just wanted to stay in California instead!"), but my point is just that you obviously can't know either way. What you can tell is that people from both schools are matching at "strong" programs ("strong" in quotes before someone jumps on me for trying to read a match list for strength) all over the country, so it's not like coming from a certain area is going to pigeonhole you into that spot for the rest of your life

 

[FluffyRabbit]

Showing us the match list doesn't mean much, b/c it doesn't show how many people DIDN'T get into Cailfornia. There is no way to gauge that.

What I'm saying with UCLA is that you don't have to make that gamble. It's a near guarantee that you will. Anyone who says that the region you go to school doesn't matter is lying. It does matter.

Can you get into California from Case? Sure. Does everyone get in? We don't know....However, with UCLA you do know (unless you really screw up there).

My reasons were also based on location. I personally would be miserable in Cleveland but Los Angeles (especially Westwood area) is really nice.

No one said the region doesn't matter. I'm only saying that it doesn't matter as much as people often think.

I concede that UCLA is generally regarded as the more prestigious school, and has nicer weather, whereas Case is offering you 100K each. The decision is really just based on how important CoA is to you.

First of all, this entire argument is unnecessary because the OP specifically indicated that (1) he's not from California and (2) matching into California isn't something that he's considering when making his decision at all.

That being said, I think your argument that you "just don't know how many people didn't match into the area they wanted" could potentially be used both ways. I mean, can you -- just by looking at the UCLA match list -- tell me that every single person that wanted to match in the northeast was able to do so? I bet this sounds insane to you since you clearly love UCLA ("of course they were able to! they just wanted to stay in California instead!"), but my point is just that you obviously can't know either way. What you can tell is that people from both schools are matching at "strong" programs ("strong" in quotes before someone jumps on me for trying to read a match list for strength) all over the country, so it's not like coming from a certain area is going to pigeonhole you into that spot for the rest of your life

+1

The UCLA match list shows that students from there who want to stay in CA generally get to do so. This interpretation is fine. The interpretation that other schools don't all end up in the Golden State and thus have trouble matching to CA isn't.

Harvard has less CA matches than any UC, and I'd doubt it's because those kids aren't getting what they want. I agree that looking at "strength" of matches is a much more reasonable metric - if someone can match MGH/JHU IM, he could have probably got a CA residency if he really wanted, no problem.

 

[ApoK]

I challenge the pre-med formulated idea that going to medical school in a particular state inherently increases your chances that you can do a residency there or vice-versa that if you are out-of-state for medical school it will hurt your chances getting a residency later on. That doesn't hold water, IMHO.

I see plenty of Case students matching into programs in CA this year.

Most importantly, Case will not limit you personally on where you end up. Your scores on your Step 1 and 2 are yours to screw up or crush. So are your rotations and LORs. There are plenty of people at Case that wind up in California by choice. Come here or don't come here OP. But don't make that decision based on the silly notion you will not be able to get a residency back home.

I'm pretty sure this posted list includes CCLCM. Those kids match really well and should be disaggregated from the traditional track.

 

[bobsmith]

I'm pretty sure this posted list includes CCLCM. Those kids match really well and should be disaggregated from the traditional track.

yeah, it does. here's CCLCM's: http://www.clevelandclinic.org/cclcm/match_2010.html

i still think his overall point stands, though

 

[alibai3ah]

No one said the region doesn't matter. I'm only saying that it doesn't matter as much as people often think.

I concede that UCLA is generally regarded as the more prestigious school, and has nicer weather, whereas Case is offering you 100K each. The decision is really just based on how important CoA is to you.



+1

The UCLA match list shows that students from there who want to stay in CA generally get to do so. This interpretation is fine. The interpretation that other schools don't all end up in the Golden State and thus have trouble matching to CA isn't.

Harvard has less CA matches than any UC, and I'd doubt it's because those kids aren't getting what they want. I agree that looking at "strength" of matches is a much more reasonable metric - if someone can match MGH/JHU IM, he could have probably got a CA residency if he really wanted, no problem.

I guess I did make the assumption that most people want to go TO California but not leave it (but I think it's a fairly valid one). Why would someone from a UC want to go to the Northeast when we have fairly competitive programs right here in our own state....And yes you can say why would someone want to leave Ohio for California, but again my assumption was that most people would rather live here. But maybe I'm wrong

And in terms of the OP's situation, I don't think Case carries the same weight as MGH/Harvard

 

[Myuu]

I'm pretty sure this posted list includes CCLCM. Those kids match really well and should be disaggregated from the traditional track.

The other 160 do just fine, I promise.

 

[FluffyRabbit]

I guess I did make the assumption that most people want to go TO California but not leave it (but I think it's a fairly valid one). Why would someone from a UC want to go to the Northeast when we have fairly competitive programs right here in our own state....And yes you can say why would someone want to leave Ohio for California, but again my assumption was that most people would rather live here. But maybe I'm wrong

There are plenty of reasons why someone may not want to be in CA. In fact, the OP has already said that this isn't a big deal for him. Maybe they have family elsewhere. Maybe they like their home institution. Maybe the best programs in their specialty are in other places. Maybe they want to live on the East Coast or in NYC.

And in terms of the OP's situation, I don't think Case carries the same weight as MGH/Harvard

It doesn't. I was just trying to say that thinking that everyone wants to match into CA, and thus extrapolating that a school's list not being filled with CA matches must be because they can't get them is a flawed line of reasoning, and Harvard happens to be the best example of this.

 

[vc7777]

(Sorry Clark...)

I'm pretty sure this posted list includes CCLCM. Those kids match really well and should be disaggregated from the traditional track.

Us parents at CCLCM will probably not fair as well as those kids...

 

[vc7777]

I guess I did make the assumption that most people want to go TO California but not leave it (but I think it's a fairly valid one). Why would someone from a UC want to go to the Northeast when we have fairly competitive programs right here in our own state....And yes you can say why would someone want to leave Ohio for California, but again my assumption was that most people would rather live here.

I guess I assume everyone wants to move to Ohio. Heck, I AM moving there in a couple of months. And since I am the center of my own universe this is all the proof I need that OHIO >> CALIFORNIA. To support my unfounded but deeply held belief I have convinced myself that UCLA's match list is evidence that while a few ended up in Ohio, the vast majority likely DIDN'T and had to settle for staying back in podunk California.

To reinforce my view, I suggest to others that really, the only reason most med students aren't ALL moving to Ohio for residency MUST be due to their inability as OOS med students in getting into residency there. This makes me feel good. So I repeat it on public forums and try to convince others that I am right - especially in threads where the OP has decided it isn't a factor for him at all.

But maybe I'm wrong.

You are wrong.

 

[IHeartSleep]

I guess I assume everyone wants to move to Ohio. Heck, I AM moving there in a couple of months. And since I am the center of my own universe this is all the proof I need that OHIO >> CALIFORNIA. To support my unfounded but deeply held belief I have convinced myself that UCLA's match list is evidence that while a few ended up in Ohio, the vast majority likely DIDN'T and had to settle for staying back in podunk California.

To reinforce my view, I suggest to others that really, the only reason most med students aren't ALL moving to Ohio for residency MUST be due to their inability as OOS med students in getting into residency there. This makes me feel good. So I repeat it on public forums and try to convince others that I am right - especially in threads where the OP has decided it isn't a factor for him at all.


You are wrong.

🤣Your response made me laugh. 👍

Anyway, YOU, my buddy, are wrong. I am the center of the whole universe (which includes your universe), and what I say goes. Repeat after me: California is the greatest state ever (without regards to our ailing budget crisis). By the way, aren't StepIIs only taken in certain places? Maybe you should use that as an excuse to visit CA and see for yourself how awesome it is to stroll down the boardwalk, encounter 3 subtypes of 20 different ethnic foods while sipping on your chai latte and the sun shining gloriously down, then drive 20 minutes inland to find Disneyland. You can't beat the Happiest Place on Earth. I dare you to. (Damn, now I don't want to leave.)

That being said, I'll be using every chance I get to go back to the great state of CA, including vacations and away rotations and residency. Already factored it into Financial Aid. 😉

 

[jbz24]

I challenge the pre-med formulated idea that going to medical school in a particular state inherently increases your chances that you can do a residency there or vice-versa that if you are out-of-state for medical school it will hurt your chances getting a residency later on. That doesn't hold water, IMHO.

I see plenty of Case students matching into programs in CA this year.

Most importantly, Case will not limit you personally on where you end up. Your scores on your Step 1 and 2 are yours to screw up or crush. So are your rotations and LORs. There are plenty of people at Case that wind up in California by choice. Come here or don't come here OP. But don't make that decision based on the silly notion you will not be able to get a residency back home.

Going to a medical school in a certain state 100% gives you an advantage when applying for residency in that state. First off, it gives an advantage to your home institution and any affiliated hospital. Secondly, program directors know each other, especially in the same state/region and communicate with each other. A program director who makes a phone call to another to put in a good word for an applicant goes a long way, and it goes a longer way if the program directors know each other well. Thirdly, there are certain networks that "share" applicants with each other, even across state boundaries. Take a look at how many students/residents/fellows at Harvard end up at UCSF and how many at UCSF end up at Harvard. I would wager there are stronger network ties between faculty at UCLA and UCSF than Case and UCSF. Now I know California is geographically a large state and I am making assumptions about the networks between these schools. I know for certain though, this is present in my state (NY) and I've spoken to my program director about it before to confirm.

 

[Myuu]

You know, a lot of applicants make a huge deal out of the match lists, but I certainly wouldn't base a decision off of it. Nowhere on the published lists does it say how the applicants ranked the programs or even which schools have the top programs for the specialties in question.

 

[vc7777]

🤣Your response made me laugh. 👍

Anyway, YOU, my buddy, are wrong. I am the center of the whole universe (which includes your universe), and what I say goes. Repeat after me: California is the greatest state ever (without regards to our ailing budget crisis). By the way, aren't StepIIs only taken in certain places? Maybe you should use that as an excuse to visit CA and see for yourself how awesome it is to stroll down the boardwalk, encounter 3 subtypes of 20 different ethnic foods while sipping on your chai latte and the sun shining gloriously down, then drive 20 minutes inland to find Disneyland. You can't beat the Happiest Place on Earth. I dare you to. (Damn, now I don't want to leave.)

That being said, I'll be using every chance I get to go back to the great state of CA, including vacations and away rotations and residency. Already factored it into Financial Aid. 😉

Hey Iheart! ...I stand corrected. Since I am but a subset of your universe, I lack the perspective you have so persuasively provided. It's like hearing directly from God...or at least the California Tourism Board...nearly the same thing, right?

You had me at 'subtype of ethnic food' (my new medical school motto is going to be "Too Big To Fail")
I will be moving there ASAP...

OP...Why choose Case? How many are posting on your thread from each school? Who has the all-time longest School Specific thread?

But seriously, my point in challenging this assertion is not so much for the original poster, but because some hapless folks reading the thread may get the wrong impression. I have nothing against California (heck, most of my winter crops come from there). But someone in [Name your state] is going to assume that to stay there she must go to medical school there too. It is ill-informed and not well thought out.

Oh, and there are no guarantees of residency if you attend any medical school. At all.

 

[IHeartSleep]

You had me at 'subtype of ethnic food' (my new medical school motto is going to be "Too Big To Fail")
I will be moving there ASAP...

Shall I list what is within a 5 mile radius of my home? Pho, Ethiopian, American (duh), authentic Mexican (we're not talking Qdoba/Chipotle here. These people are delighted if you speak Spanish or otherwise know enough English to take your money), probably 5 different types of Chinese food, Korean, Greek, Japanese, French, Italian, South/North Indian, Pakistani, Vietnamese, Mongolian (ok, as authentic as Mongolian BBQ can get). And I live in a quiet little town where neighbors get all riled up for two years if a Starbucks opens in the dead downtown. We all drive a mile to the next town for most of this stuff

Hey, let's go on food adventures in Cleveland.

It's like hearing directly from God...or at least the California Tourism Board...nearly the same thing, right?

LIKE? Oh, so I'm not God? 🙁

...😀

 

[CCLCMer]

I'm pretty sure this posted list includes CCLCM. Those kids match really well and should be disaggregated from the traditional track.

The University Program students match equally well. There's no need to separate us.

I guess I did make the assumption that most people want to go TO California but not leave it (but I think it's a fairly valid one).

Funny. I've always wanted to avoid going to CA, and if forced to go there against my will, then I want to leave as quickly as possible. 😛

So seriously, there's no reason to make that assumption except that YOU feel that way.

Why would someone from a UC want to go to the Northeast when we have fairly competitive programs right here in our own state....And yes you can say why would someone want to leave Ohio for California, but again my assumption was that most people would rather live here.

There are lots of good reasons to not want to move to CA. Living in CA is expensive, the taxes are high, the liberals run rampant, the people are plastic, and some day your state is going to fall off the continent into the Pacific Ocean, assuming that the western half of the state doesn't end up as part of Alaska first. And lest you think that life in CA is entirely sun and fun, did you know that the Golden Gate Bridge is the most popular place to commit suicide in the entire world? They even made a documentary about it. I mean, who wouldn't want to be part of all that?

But maybe I'm wrong.

To quote vc7777: you are wrong.

And in terms of the OP's situation, I don't think Case carries the same weight as MGH/Harvard

I'm trying to find the post where the OP said he was debating between MGH (which isn't even a med school) or Harvard versus Case, but I'm not seeing it. Must be that Midwest myopia striking again....

I guess I assume everyone wants to move to Ohio. Heck, I AM moving there in a couple of months. And since I am the center of my own universe this is all the proof I need that OHIO >> CALIFORNIA. To support my unfounded but deeply held belief I have convinced myself that UCLA's match list is evidence that while a few ended up in Ohio, the vast majority likely DIDN'T and had to settle for staying back in podunk California.

To reinforce my view, I suggest to others that really, the only reason most med students aren't ALL moving to Ohio for residency MUST be due to their inability as OOS med students in getting into residency there. This makes me feel good. So I repeat it on public forums and try to convince others that I am right - especially in threads where the OP has decided it isn't a factor for him at all.

I want you to know that this post was simply genius. 🤣

I am the center of the whole universe (which includes your universe), and what I say goes.

Uh oh, don't tell me we're going to start with these parallel universes again. I can already feel myself getting time-sick.

Now I know California is geographically a large state and I am making assumptions about the networks between these schools.

Why shouldn't you make assumptions? Everyone else is--might as well join in on the fun!

LIKE? Oh, so I'm not God? 🙁

You can't be THE god, because that job's already taken. But you can be a minor deity if you like. How about being the goddess of online histology slides? Don't be too quick to shoot me down--you can collect all of the microscope money as an offering.

 

[metallica81788]

God, SDN is so California geocentric. 🙄

ClarKent, don't elt these Cali bums tell you where to go.

Not that I think you would.

 

[IHeartSleep]

There are lots of good reasons to not want to move to CA. Living in CA is expensive, the taxes are high, the liberals run rampant, the people are plastic, and some day your state is going to fall off the continent into the Pacific Ocean, assuming that the western half of the state doesn't end up as part of Alaska first. And lest you think that life in CA is entirely sun and fun, did you know that the Golden Gate Bridge is the most popular place to commit suicide in the entire world? They even made a documentary about it. I mean, who wouldn't want to be part of all that?

1. Yes, living in CA is expensive, but a) salaries are higher here on average, and b) it makes for vacations over to other states or other countries very nice. 😉

2. Eh, Illinois has a higher sales tax. At least when I do sales tax in my head, I can round down from 10% instead of up.

3. But...but...it's so fun to watch a former bodybuilder-turned-actor, a porn star and the founder of Hustler battle it out for the state's highest office!

4. Personally, I don't know of anyone who has gone under the knife. Maybe the people you are referring to are Barbie and Ken dolls? (Hehe)

5. Haven't you heard of the California secession movement? Get on that!! There have been hilarious things I've read on the Internet. It's where I learned that 1 in 7 people in the US live in CA and if CA were its own country, it would have the 7th largest economy in the world.

6. Eh, can't argue about the Golden Gate Bridge. I guess if you think about it, what is one famous structure in the U.S. that is suicide-able? I can't imagine it to be easy to jump off a dam or high tower because of the small area security needs to monitor. They've been making big changes to decrease suicides and I'm glad for all the suicide hotlines that are popping up. On an interesting note, did you know there is a guy who paints the Golden Gate Bridge from one end to the other, then immediately goes back and starts again because it takes 6+ months each time? He gets paid like $75k/year.

I would say NYC is probably the next best place, so I'm not totally 100% CA! Thank CA for your fresh veggies next time! 😀

(I'm making this very hard for the OP to leave CA, aren't I? And I wonder if I'll change my mind once I live in another state for a couple years. Cleveland, don't disappoint me!)