CHOOSE YOUR OWWN II - Game Thread

[Coopah]

Ok so I think I'm gonna start with my strongest read and that's sunshine so

Yeet sunshine

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[Animal Midwife]

Day 4 Yeet Tally
sunshine (1) - Coop

1/7
yeet close in ~35 hours

 

[supershorty]

There are 7 of us left, so only 4 to maj, so guys can we please at least consider being a little conservative with throwing votes down before we have discussion?

 

[cubsrule4e]

I'm planning to go through alley, please, and Coop's posts over the course of this game day.

and then I will have ISOed everyone left in the game, so we can box them up and sell them as a companion series to Bioshock when I also ISOed nearly everyone in the game.

Keep those box sets in mint condition. Could be worth big $ someday.

 

[Coopah]

There are 7 of us left, so only 4 to maj, so guys can we please at least consider being a little conservative with throwing votes down before we have discussion?

Yeah let's not do what I did please

 

[cubsrule4e]

Obviously there can be a too high scum:village ratio, but I asked mods if there could also be a too low scum:village ratio besides 0 and got the shrug answer that I was expecting. So presumably there could be anywhere from 1-3 actual scum players left, with no real way to know how many factions. There was no hinting of mylyskyhylo (joking because I never remember the actual definitions), so I'd think more like 1-2 scum players.

 

[Coopah]

Obviously there can be a too high scum:village ratio, but I asked mods if there could also be a too low scum:village ratio besides 0 and got the shrug answer that I was expecting. So presumably there could be anywhere from 1-3 actual scum players left, with no real way to know how many factions. There was no hinting of mylyskyhylo (joking because I never remember the actual definitions), so I'd think more like 1-2 scum players.

I kinda doubt that too because we can reach parity between village and factions and if different factions are still alive the game goes on. Just something to consider

 

[cubsrule4e]

Yeah let's not do what I did please

Is that why you put down your vote first? lol. (joke)

 

[Coopah]

Is that why you put down your vote first? lol. (joke)

... Maybe

 

[cubsrule4e]

I kinda doubt that too because we can reach parity between village and factions and if different factions are still alive the game goes on. Just something to consider

I thought it was still parity between actual scum players? Did I miss that in the rules? Like when you read the descriptions on that website it says stuff like "you win when there is AT LEAST one mafia player still alive."

 

[Coopah]

I thought it was still parity between actual scum players? Did I miss that in the rules? Like when you read the descriptions on that website it says stuff like "you win when there is AT LEAST one mafia player still alive."

No I thought it was last faction standing??? Idk help

 

[Viscernable]

No I thought it was last faction standing??? Idk help

It’s when there is no way to prevent there being only one faction standing, so once they reach parity and there are no threats to them still alive

 

[alleycat03]

I’m so confused on how Dubz was killed if she’s a PGO? Does anybody understand the OOO on what kills would’ve “overrode” the PGO? Is that a thing? Could a ninja or strongarm kill do that?

 

[cubsrule4e]

I’m so confused on how Dubz was killed if she’s a PGO? Does anybody understand the OOO on what kills would’ve “overrode” the PGO? Is that a thing? Could a ninja or strongarm kill do that?

It said 1 time PGO. So what we presume to happen was N1 cray or wonder interacted with her, so the PGO ability went into effect, killing that player. After that her ability is no longer useable.

 

[supershorty]

I’m so confused on how Dubz was killed if she’s a PGO? Does anybody understand the OOO on what kills would’ve “overrode” the PGO? Is that a thing? Could a ninja or strongarm kill do that?

Hmmm.

We know there's not a strongarm in the game because there's only 1 on the list and it was a discard.
Same with ninja.

And we just talked about how this probably happened, on posts that you read before you posted this (because I got notifications that you'd reacted to my comments).

 

[Viscernable]

I’m so confused on how Dubz was killed if she’s a PGO? Does anybody understand the OOO on what kills would’ve “overrode” the PGO? Is that a thing? Could a ninja or strongarm kill do that?

No but someone immune to NKs wouldn’t have died. I think it’s more likely her oneshot PGO was used N1 considering we haven’t a second kill N2 or N3, but it’s not a sure thing.

 

[alleycat03]

Hmmm.

We know there's not a strongarm in the game because there's only 1 on the list and it was a discard.
Same with ninja.

And we just talked about how this probably happened, on posts that you read before you posted this (because I got notifications that you'd reacted to my comments).

Yeah I’m still confused so I’m looking over the greater roles page. Ninja and strongman were both discarded?

 

[alleycat03]

Okay so I went back and looked and pleasy discarded mafia strongman and chaos discarded ninja werewolf. So those aren’t possibilities.

 

[supershorty]

Yeah I’m still confused so I’m looking over the greater roles page. Ninja and strongman were both discarded?

Yes, remember the discussion about Chaos and please at the beginning of the game?

 

[alleycat03]

Yes, remember the discussion about Chaos and please at the beginning of the game?

I remember pleasy discarded an important scum role but that’s about it. I know Zenge discussed her with his theory that scum might’ve picked “lesser” roles. But I didn’t remember what exactly they discarded so I just went back and looked

 

[supershorty]

I remember pleasy discarded an important scum role but that’s about it. I know Zenge discussed her with his theory that scum might’ve picked “lesser” roles. But I didn’t remember what exactly they discarded so I just went back and looked

That wasn't Zenge's theory. He felt the opposite.

 

[alleycat03]

It said 1 time PGO. So what we presume to happen was N1 cray or wonder interacted with her, so the PGO ability went into effect, killing that player. After that her ability is no longer useable.

This makes a lot more sense. Thanks Cubs. So after her one-time PGO, she essentially became vanilla.

 

[alleycat03]

That wasn't Zenge's theory. He felt the opposite.

Wait whose theory was it then? Because I know it was discussed. Sorry I’m on mobile rn so the search function isn’t the best.

 

[alleycat03]

I know somebody brought up that people might have picked “weaker” scum roles to appear more village and try to get village cred. I thought it was Zenge but apparently it was someone else.

 

[supershorty]

I know somebody brought up that people might have picked “weaker” scum roles to appear more village and try to get village cred. I thought it was Zenge but apparently it was someone else.

No, it was sunny. And they argued about it. I talked about it in her ISO.
Zenge felt (and I agreed) that it would be a poor scum strategy to discard a strong scum role that could shorten the length of the game by killing more effectively and take a weaker role in the HOPES of getting some village cred.

 

[Coopah]

It’s when there is no way to prevent there being only one faction standing, so once they reach parity and there are no threats to them still alive

... I'm still not sure I understand but I guess it doesn't matter

 

[alleycat03]

Okay I think I understand the Dubz death thing now, but tbh the parity stuff is still confusing to me.

This is what I get for trying to work on 6 hours of sleep and multitask by reading the thread My reading comprehension is trash rn

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

what the heck
ugh
ok well then sunshine is probably where im going today but the majority is low so im not gonna do that yet
shortys the only person i feel really solid in my read on

shorty>>visc>cubs>alley>coopah>>sunshine

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

what the heck
ugh
ok well then sunshine is probably where im going today but the majority is low so im not gonna do that yet
shortys the only person i feel really solid in my read on

shorty>>visc>cubs>alley>coopah>>sunshine

i think i need to solidly sort alley today. i usually have a pretty strong lean on her by now and it makes me nervous that i dont

 

[alleycat03]

i think i need to solidly sort alley today. i usually have a pretty strong lean on her by now and it makes me nervous that i dont

I was just going to ask why I dropped in your list below Visc and cubs. Do you have more reasonings for your ordering? I do appreciate the color coding though.

 

[sunshinefl]

what the heck
ugh
ok well then sunshine is probably where im going today but the majority is low so im not gonna do that yet
shortys the only person i feel really solid in my read on

shorty>>visc>cubs>alley>coopah>>sunshine

Okay well I’m town so since town keeps being all the deaths that’s a stupid plan. Unless you yourself are bad in which case it is smart.

 

[sunshinefl]

Updated rankings.

5. @sunshinefl TOWN!!!!!

14. @cubsrule4e okay

11. @Coopah meh

1. @supershorty concerned

Overreacting to zenge

6. @alleycat03 concerned

3. @vetschoolsletmeinplease concerned

4. @Viscernable sus

 

[sunshinefl]

Notable: please droppedddddddddddd

I am considering voting there vs Visc again (for the third day in a row. Her wagon always seems to dissipate)

 

[Coopah]

Updated rankings.

5. @sunshinefl TOWN!!!!!

14. @cubsrule4e okay

11. @Coopah meh

1. @supershorty concerned

Overreacting to zenge

6. @alleycat03 concerned

3. @vetschoolsletmeinplease concerned

4. @Viscernable sus

This is... Concerning

Explain please, alley and shorty positioning

Also why are you ok with cubs??? Actually everything explain everything

 

[cubsrule4e]

Notable: please droppedddddddddddd

I am considering voting there vs Visc again (for the third day in a row. Her wagon always seems to dissipate)

Can you or anyone else scumming her, walk me through the pleasey read? My problem with her is that she just blends into villageness all day every day (maybe its the avatar?) and I can never seem to find wolf points for her (and sometimes I find myself just skating by her posts not really scrutinizing them perhaps as I should). Which at this stage of the game is wanting me to take a second look, especially with only one scum player flipped, and it was like the first of the whole game, but I kinda need a starting point.

 

[cubsrule4e]

Also I think with dubbie confirmed village, that is another good place to start rereading knowing we can view them without hesitancy.

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

people talking about alley/interactions w alley

Spoiler: Day 1

They’re mad because I was pocketed and they were too sketch for me to believe BOTH of them were villagers.

Hey, y’all could’ve yeeted her without my vote

this is in reference to stagg and cubs' salt vote

But their salt *should* be directed at samac, not me. However, since she’s not playing I get why they’re both directing the salt at me.

so is this
this doesn't really ping me either way. like i didn't understand the salt but it's not something super strong to go off of

alley - Town Nymphomaniac : understandably discarded because who wants to willingly be lovers with someone

from wonder's reads post, and keeping in mind that wonder would die this night

Alley:
A lot of fluff (note: I haven’t really played with alley so I don’t know how they normally sound)
Examples -

Also their stagg vote felt off - overexplaining

Also if scum, went the “safe” affiliation route by claiming vanilla townie

@alleycat03 If you were given the choice of vanilla townie or town nymphomaniac for affiliation, is there a reason you chose vanilla townie for your affiliation over town nymphomaniac if both options would have given you town affiliation?

(this is part of a larger post about players that pinged her) and then wonder voted alley
fluff is par for the course when alley or i play bc we interact w people in an overall light and jokey way, so I don't wanna put too much weight into it. but i did agree with vanilla townie, now that we have 2 confirmations of that for other people, is a little less likely for alley

alley - alley is tough for me to read. She feels kind of like village!alley to me, but I feel like in more recent games where she was village, I saw more wolf hunting from her than I feel like I'm seeing right now. Going back through her posts, many of them are either fluff or talking about herself, but there isn't a lot of analysis about other people other than a sentence here and there. I wouldn't put my vote here today, but I want to see more content from her.

(from shortys reads post)
i agree that im used to more wolfhunting than ive seen from her overall in this game

I like your last question but disagree alleys vote felt overexplainy.

(in response to wonders vote)

Spoiler: Day 2

Neutral:
sunny, alley, zenge, chaos

keeping in mind that Dina would be killed N2

alley - I'm feeling a little better about alley today. Her early D1 content didn't give me a lot of warm fuzzy feelings, but I felt like she stepped up the game solving efforts after that. Her excitement about Stagg's yeet seemed genuine.

a caveat, if she was in a different faction then she is still genuinely excited about some other faction dying. multiballs hurt my brain

I mentioned yesterday that I thought multiple existing roles (like vanilla town) were a safe option for scum to choose as their aff role reveal and it looks like stagg did just that.

Looking at the list it seems alley, dubz, & coop also claimed it. I'd have to go through the list to see how many people claimed an aff role that was able to be rolled by multiple people

Towny
zenge
chaos
alley
please
shorty

But generally feeling good about you and okay about Alley was a factor in my decision certainly.

talking about where he placed his vote, and how feeling good about voting w two village reads was a factor

I'm like, basically caught up now. I think. Decided to split hairs.


Dina
Vis
sunny
chaos
coop
cubs
zenge
please
alley
shorty

Dude I was afraid I was going to say the wrong word (and like mix them up) and accidentally get stuck as a lover. I was so confused on my first roll trying to pick two of the options and I still worried on my 2nd and 3rd rolls that I would accidentally pick the wrong option. (AM and flushy probably hated me because I asked so many questions about all of my possible combinations). So me discarding the town nymphomaniac was me ensuring I didn’t end up as a lover somehow.

this is absolutely fair- if she was offered all 3 spots town

Idk why my first instinct after I have a few drinks is getting on SDN but I’m just gonna roll with it. Stay tuned for inebriated catch-up with alley™️

I can’t see alley pointing this out if she and please were on a team together. I’m not scumreading either of them anyway but want to note this in case one of them looks worse in the future.

in response to a post by alley saying that her and i were the only ones who hasn't voted

Feel okay about alley

@alleycat03, what seemed off about Dina's reads list to you? You mentioned it twice, but never elaborated.

Concerned is very slightly scum side of neutral. She just largely hasn’t done anything villagey.

(this is in response to shorty asking why alley had moved on the reads list from nothing to concerned)

pretty colorsssss

Why is alley so village? I can’t get a read on her this game so far so I’m interested in hearing more

(in response to my reads list)

i like this reads list even though it's mostly neutrals. nothing is striking me as having reads from TMI of being a scum faction (but ofc that is harder to see in multiball) but as far as how she explains her current thoughts on people it aligns with what im used to seeing from village alley

how shes interacting with people, and openly talking about/drawing attention to her own habits when non-village

and then this level of sass combined with feeling joking and villagingly casual on the thread. she's half getting a pass bc she's been having fun this weekend, and she'll slide down the gradient if she doesn't make more contributions in the next couple of days, but i like what i see when taking her business/drinkiness into consideration so far



ew the quote thing did them backwards
so look above lol

(my feelings about alley sounding villagey)

Did you see my post about her ticky tack sus basis for some people? add that as well. Alley im pretty comfortable with.

This is not village alley. I really don’t see that. This only made me feel worse about her.

(in response to one of alley's catchup posts)

Really? Can you explain more, like what about it seemed not like village alley?

Feels like she’s unwilling to see what a lot of us are seeing and just piling on him instead

hedging

I feel like village alley doesn’t frame things this way

Don’t see “village frustration” from dubz at all. Just her defending dubz.

Okay, that’s not really a new insight but sure “looks helpful”

Meh

As above

Priority as of now is something like :

Cubz > Dubz > Vetschools > Coopah/Alley > Sunshine > Dina > Shorty > Vis

Please and Alley , not sure

(talking about our reasons for voting z)

I accidentally deleted some stuff i think when my page refreshed, so there may be a gap in between the last D2 post and things I missed at beginning of D3

Spoiler: Day 3

Can someone (probably Dubz) explain why Vis posting the messages from her mod PM are so important? Maybe I’m just not understanding the significance. All it does is show Vis was possibly venting about being misyeeted. She could’ve sent those messages in wolf chat or in a role PM. It doesn’t say anything about her affiliation because she could’ve faked them or they could be legit. Just not sure why people are focusing on it so much and wondering if it’s fake or not.

Did you end up doing this? I’m having a hard time reading chaos because his actions seem pro-village (especially getting us to name the discards) but his general tone and tunneling on Cubs prevent me from thinking he’s 100% definitely village.

Now this is the sassy!Sunny that I expect to see.

What was the result of this?


I rely mainly on VCA and mechanics (sorry AM) so I’m feeling pretty lost too. If we had even just 1 scum flip we could analyze a lot better.

Quoting this to remind myself to read it later b/c I’m on mobile rn and it’s a lot to comprehend

Pleasy read my mind when it came to these comments. I was wondering the exact same thing about Chaos’ position on Vis and why she’s his top village read. Chaos, did you elaborate on this at all?

Reminder to myself to read this. Shorty, I appreciate the long ISOs and the tldr you provide. Your effort is greatly appreciated. Just can’t focus long enough to read them all at once.

This has already been discussed by others on the thread, but I wanted to share my input too. Just because you add “lol” and say it’s a joke doesn’t mean it’s not true or that you accidentally let it slip that you know chaos is not the same affiliation as you. I think your response to people questioning your joke actually sounds more like a wolfy lack of humor from you. The new generation can still joke around and have fun, it’s just those jokes will still be analyzed when scum hunting and you have to be okay with that.


again quoting this so I can read it later on my actual laptop screen. But this whole interaction seems to be a v/v kerfuffle from my skimming.

Maybe every (both?) scum faction targeted Dina. Maybe one of them was blocked. Maybe there’s an alien out there so they could only kill once and they used it up. There’s so many possibilities and I don’t think we’ll know until we flip scum. But I do enjoy the hypotheticals and tinfoiling.

Sorry I was absent. If you have any specific questions, please ask away because I’ll be here all night.

So what did you determine after your skimming? Does he seem like he’s scummy after you read through the other thread?

Drunk thoughts are honest thoughts. Tbh I didn’t go back and read what I said so hopefully I didn’t say anything incredibly stupid.

hmmm
so
overall; i don't feel great about alley. someone sus'd her on D1 and dedded and then Dina gave her some lw sus on D2 and dedded. now thats not nail in the coffin bc they did sus other people but it's part of a larger picture
the larger picture being i feel like you aren't villaging as hard as i usually see you village. last game when we shared pm yes we had a lot of mechanics on our side and this time we don't, but I still feel like I'm used to seeing more analysis from you rather than the speculation i saw above.

alley i saw your question about why you've moved down and i actually answered that on day 2 haha
i told dubz in response to your very village position on my reads at the time; " she's half getting a pass bc she's been having fun this weekend, and she'll slide down the gradient if she doesn't make more contributions in the next couple of days, but i like what i see when taking her business/drinkiness into consideration so far" and i just feel like the level of contributions you've made since the week started don't really match the level of wolf hunting im used to seeing from you.

next I'm gonna do an iso of just posts by alley and see if my opinions on her level of wolfhunting change

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

Updated rankings.

5. @sunshinefl TOWN!!!!!

14. @cubsrule4e okay

11. @Coopah meh

1. @supershorty concerned

Overreacting to zenge

6. @alleycat03 concerned

3. @vetschoolsletmeinplease concerned

4. @Viscernable sus

so you dont have a single town read?

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

the hedginess ive seen from sunny this game is unreal. every single list is only leans, no solid reads.

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

I was just going to ask why I dropped in your list below Visc and cubs. Do you have more reasonings for your ordering? I do appreciate the color coding though.

yeee
the level of hunting and effort ive seen from shorty feels genuine and very provillage
visc kinda similar, has a very provillage attitude and this is not the same vibes overall that happened when visc wolfed with me, but this ones below shorty bc i want to look more like critically at visc's logic.
then cubs out of this seems very similar play to last game where cubs was village
you; see wallpost haha
coopah i am all over the place about. I believe the this isnt fun anymore i wanna die on D1, im honestly not sure if i believe accidental hammering yesterday, and overall i don't know how to feel in a bad way
and then sunny i think ive made relatively clear over the past couple of calendar days

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

My laptop died and the charger is in the office where Tim is taking a proctored final, so the second iso will have to wait lol

 

[sunshinefl]

This is... Concerning

Explain please, alley and shorty positioning

Also why are you ok with cubs??? Actually everything explain everything

Can you or anyone else scumming her, walk me through the pleasey read? My problem with her is that she just blends into villageness all day every day (maybe its the avatar?) and I can never seem to find wolf points for her (and sometimes I find myself just skating by her posts not really scrutinizing them perhaps as I should). Which at this stage of the game is wanting me to take a second look, especially with only one scum player flipped, and it was like the first of the whole game, but I kinda need a starting point.

5. @sunshinefl TOWN!!!!!

Obvious and dutiful townsperson

14. @cubsrule4e okay

Using logic

11. @Coopah meh

Sus’ ing me but not echoing

1. @supershorty concerned

Overreacting to zenge; doing her ISO thing but tldr and reaches some inevitable conclusion (anchoring bias vs scum agenda)

6. @alleycat03 concerned

Alternates absent and echoing

3. @vetschoolsletmeinplease concerned

Echoing; yeet voting out of her sus order to pick off town (I wasn’t a real possibility yesterday but now that she picked off chaos she can focus on me with the momentum there today); threw a bunch of shade on me over zenge when she herself said he wasn’t making sense his last day of life (which is actually when he made the most sense)

4. @Viscernable sus

Saying lots of things that are nothing or echoing

so you dont have a single town read?

Myself

the hedginess ive seen from sunny this game is unreal. every single list is only leans, no solid reads.

would love to hear from you or anyone how you are so sure of your reads in this multi-faction game with zero true bad guys flipped yet

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

eet voting out of her sus order to pick off town (I wasn’t a real possibility yesterday but now that she picked off chaos she can focus on me with the momentum there today)

Nah nah nah
I very clearly stated that I was voting my second sus read to give you an extra day of evaluation. Since then you have done nothing IMO that’s more provillage than precious days.
and where am I focusing on just you? I literally just dedicated like an hour and a half to looking into alley
You’ve framed it so that no matter if I look at you or if I don’t, I’m sus for doing so.

threw a bunch of shade on me over zenge when she herself said he wasn’t making sense his last day of life (which is actually when he made the most sense)

I stand by my vote on zenge for the reasons I stated. He wasn’t making sense to me, I wasn’t following his logic. Am I sorry he was village? Yes. It’ll make me better at reading him next game
meanwhile, you sus’d zenge until near end of day then used shortys reactions to build a hedge around yourself and call everyone else shady but yourself

would love to hear from you or anyone how you are so sure of your reads in this multi-faction game with zero true bad guys flipped yet

absolutely, navigate to any of my reads lists and in the posts surrounding it directly on them you’ll see my reasoning.
im not saying you have to be 100% sure on anyone, but by your definitions your lists are almost completely composed of slight leans. Aka hedges

 

[supershorty]

alley

I didn't come out of this where I thought I would. I was feeling okay about alley at the beginning of the game, but I'm feeling less so now.

tl;dr:
-First reads list felt like village!alley to me. I didn't agree with all of her reads, but I could follow her logic and I thought what she was saying matched up with where she was ranking people.
-The second reads list, on the other hand, I can't say the same for. I still agree with some of her reads and reasoning for them, but some of them, I feel like there's a disparity between what she's saying about them and where she has them ranked.
-She makes an interesting turnaround in her Vissy read and uses some phrasing that's very close to what sunny said, which has me squinting a little. Most of the reason that I find the Vis turnaround so interesting is because sunny susses her, alley doesn't have much discussion about it herself, and then does almost a 180 on her, going from saying her analysis was good to calling it a distraction.
-There's very little discussion of sunny herself and then alley puts her as a pretty high village read, with reasons that seem more wishful thinking than reflective of reality. Now, this in itself isn't an indictment of sunny. But I could see a scum!alley (or scum!anyone, really) giving sunny a village read to keep her off their backs.
-I really don't feel like I saw the kind of active wolf hunting from alley that I'd expect from her when she's village.
-Threadloom is giving me the finger about ISOs and is being really fussy today.
-I'd like to discuss alley more. She wasn't really on my radar before, but now I want to put some pressure on her.

Spoiler

After WoWP I am terrified of any and all lover roles. So I said eff that

I can believe that after being burned in WoWP, she wanted to get a role with even a mention of lovers as far away from her as possible. And there's really zero way that being a lover helps any faction, it's kind of a ****ty role, so I don't think it was a weird discard at all. I'd have yeeted that option far away from me if I'd gotten it.

But their salt *should* be directed at samac, not me. However, since she’s not playing I get why they’re both directing the salt at me.

Ehhhhh. Doesn't affect this game, but I think it's perfectly reasonable for their salt to be aimed at her too.

Stagg gets my salt vote for being an awful seer last game. Also liked Vis’ point about him choosing scum, but idk if we should assume too much about that.

Yeet stagg

First vote is following Vissy onto Stagg. Vissy eventually came off and wanted to vote Coop, but was unwilling to go there that day. I think alley says later on why she's staying on the Stagg vote, if I remember correctly from my speed read last night, but I don't recall it being super strong reasoning, more that she wasn't sure where else to go. We'll see when we get there.

Nope, never mind. She says she's staying there, but no new reasoning given:

There’s not a *ton* of info to work off of right now even though we don’t have a lot of time left before yeet deadline. I’m going to stick with my Stagg vote for now, but that might change if a lot of discussion happens in the next few hours.

Not that it matters, but I would pretty much never pick wolf in a CYO game because I already am so sketchy. Plus, every game I wolf I'm inevitably the D1 or D2 vote for several games after. Plus you never know, I may or may not have forgotten to submit my choices by deadline

The WIFOM is strong in this post

Turns out Stagg wasn't lying since he used a wolf ability, not a wolf aff. I don't think that affects anything about alley's statement here and whether it's AI or not, I just find it amusing that it turned out to be true in this game.

Decent logic but do you really know Stagg that well? This feels like an overstatement.

Do *any* of us know Stagg that well? I got the same vibe as Vis that he would pick scum roles, but he sounds legit when he said he had no idea how to properly choose his role.

This felt a little strange to me because while Stagg hasn't played with my noob class all that much, it's not like he's new to the site. My understanding is that he used to play quite a bit. So it felt a little scrambley to me when she said that.

This also sounds like something extremely similar to what you’ve told me in wolfchat before. I think it was in bioshock. I agree with you, I don’t really like wolfing and honestly find it to be burdensome. I hope you understood that I was trying to say it was more likely you chose a village PR over a scum role and *that* was the reason you chose to discard vanilla townie.

Reiterating this point that she'd made about Cray probably choosing a village PR vs a scum role with the vanilla townie discard. This gives me some slight feels because in normal games, I'd be hella nervous about highlighting that someone might have a PR, but with this game being such crazy role madness, I'm not sure if that ping is misplaced. I've had other pings from other people that don't fit as well in a multiball game as they would in a normal game.

supershorty- Village lean. Her recent posts feel very village. I have a hard time believing she would willingly pick a scum role. She loves vanilla villager so I could see her picking a PR or vanilla townie but I definitely have a hard time imagining that she would pick a scum role (especially since she discarded a village role, so she could have been village affiliation with the discard).

Crayola227- neutral. Liked our earlier discussion and her thread contributions.

vetschoolsletmeinplease- neutral, slight village lean. So far, sounds like her village tone. Haven’t seen a whole lot from her but she is another person who I would be SHOCKED if she willingly chose to be (edit: scum/NOT) village.

Viscernable- neutral. She was very analytical with the discards earlier, and I followed her logic there. Also, when she and chaos kind of got into a disagreement, her tone sounded genuine. I think she’s a very strong wolf and I could see her picking a scum affiliation.

sunshinefl- MIA

WildZoo- neutral. I think she would pick 3P if she had a choice, and she’s so good at wolfing that she’d actually be a great scum choice. Haven’t noticed a lot from her tone wise, but she sounds identical to me when she’s wolfing and when she’s village.

Stagg737- wolf-lean. The whole “I forgot to pick” and not understanding the role selection seemed legit, but I agree with shorty that he had plenty of opportunities to ask for clarification. I fully admit that I suck at reading him, so I’m probably biased because I always think he’s sketchy.

Zenge142- Neutral, slight village lean. He sounds village so far, but his early defense of me from the salt votes felt kind of like pocketing. He’s a terrifying wolf player, but right now I do like his contributions and he seems pro-village.

Dinashadow- Neutral. I need to see more, but I find myself nodding along with her posts and agreeing with her logic. Thought her Cubs vote makes sense.

Coopah- neutral, leaning wolf. Her frustration seems genuine, so maybe she truly didn’t pick her role. As far as I know I’ve never played with her before. She’s on the same level as Stagg right now when it comes to me not fully understanding what/why she was so confused.

WonderingStudent- wolf-lean. I get sketchy vibes from her. At first I appreciated the analysis she gave of the discards, but it seems like she is being purposely confusing and I get why Dubz and shorty have said she’s sus.

Chaostrodon- neutral, village-leaning. If he’s scum, he’s an incredibly bold scum considering he claimed an affiliation role that only 1 person could have. Maybe he’s a wolf/mafia vig or something (and he used the vig for ability and not for affiliation) but that also seems way too bold/risky.

cubsrule4e- neutral. my judgement is semi-clouded right now because of his saltiness directed towards me, but I think he has more of a village tone. He seems more upbeat and playful? Like as opposed to the serious vibes I got from him during Madagascar.

First reads list. I don't agree with all of them, but I understand her thought process behind them and can follow it. Feels more committal and less hedgy than what I've seen wolf!alley do in the past.

Making note that I really like this post from Vis. In the past she’s been known to make “wall posts” when she’s wolfing to look like she’s wolf hunting, but this analysis seems pretty solid.

I've seen wolf!Vis do the wall post thing (in Basics, and I fell for it), but I don't recall her making a lot of posts like that in Baby Animals. It's interesting that alley liked the analysis in this post because it's one that I almost entirely disagreed with when I was looking at it - it was the post where Vis was sussing Coop for the jokes and joke editing, and shading cubs for his saying that Stagg was who he'd vote for next. I agreed with her that Coop had asked me a question that felt like fishing, but most of the rest of that post, I felt like was kind of stretchy reasons. alley saying that the analysis seems pretty solid surprises me.

I get what you’re saying, but this also just sounds like chaos’ “normal” tone to me? I remember him sounding like this in previous games. It did ping me a bit early on, but now I have kind of gotten used to it. However, the “you have my sheep” was weird phrasing imo. It’s usually encouraged to not sheep people, and that was an odd thing to say.

I remember agreeing with this. I wasn't used to seeing Chaos be quite that active, but he sounded very similar to other games.

I think this may have been stated earlier but to say it again/agree with prior sentiment, I dont think you can rely heavily on "what someone likes to be." The whole point in a game like this is to do what people wouldnt expect, especially if youre usually a hardcore village that hates being a wolf. Thats how you easily get a village (not even meta?) read just for existing as a player who doesnt like wolfing. On the other hand, the reverse for someone like myself, who the general consensus is that i "like wolfing." Actually I find it stressful as hell, although I do enjoy it when it happens. That doesnt mean I always want to do that, especially when im non stop read as wolfy. Same for Stagg or whoever else. Im not trying to discredit anything youve said, but like shorty for instance is basically getting an automatic early pass from you because you just dont believe she'd ever pick a scum role. You also never thought samac would betray you (not saying that to bring up salt, using it as a legit example) and look what happened. That long Cray post from yesterday also, a perfectly believable thing for her to say (and it may be the truth 99% of the time), but it gives her a leg up if she did want to pick a scum/3P role.

My main point with that was that some people definitely have preferences. I know shorty and Pleasy both prefer village roles significantly, but I included other things in my reads of them besides knowing their personal preferences. I do not want to village read anybody based solely on their likelihood of whether or not they would pick a scum role. It’s just a piece of the puzzle to me.

I talked about this post yesterday in cubs' ISO, so I don't want to repeat myself too much. To reiterate, I thought cubs made a valid point, but then it was a weird decision to hone in on one of alley's reads where she WASN'T doing that and use that as an example. Her read on please would have made much more sense since it was based on tone and on her not liking to play scum.

YESSSSS WE GOT A WOLF

hydrated!alley was very excited, but also mistaken.

Her posts mainly include: jumping on Stagg which is the easy thing to do, and random things that look like she's saying something but its not really... like about making AM angry, roles that no one has, fighting with chaos about math, etc.

Hmmm, this is interesting to me. I was agreeing with Vis’ posts so far and I definitely did not interpret those things the same way as Sunny. They seemed like genuine scum hunting and analytics to me. I do agree that there has been some fluffiness from her, but nothing she’s done jumps out as scum to me.

This interaction is interesting to me. Not so much sunny's statement overall - I talked about that yesterday. But what's really interesting to me is the bolded part. We saw a very similar sentence last night - from alley.

Other reasons I am concerned about Vis being scum:

The fact that she knew that wonder died, made a post referring to Wonder's reveal to me wondering (lol) why Wonder would lie, and then she forgot later on that she died? Seems weird to me. I don't think the mod PMs clear her or implicate her for faking. They're a moot point to me. She could type whatever she wanted in the PM and then post it on thread. Frankly, I'm getting those same vibes I had during endgame of baby animals where Zenge and Vis were wolfing together. I felt like something was off with vis (ie her efforts were misplaced or something like she was focusing on the wrong people and unimportant information), and I'm getting those vibes here too. From reading too much into Cubs' jokes and saltiness to getting into a disagreement with Chaos over statistics to now giving us reads on people not even on the board, I'm not seeing a lot here that focuses on pro-village effort and a lot of it seems like a distraction.

This in particular feels like it's really watering down that whole discussion...

I'm confused, are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? Was the disagreement over statistics not a distraction?

I'm disagreeing with you because I think that just calling that discussion a disagreement over statistics is neglecting a lot of the content therein.

So I'm curious to see the progression for her to get there.

Dude I'm telling you that you should joke around, because WW is supposed to be fun! It's not enjoyable when everyone hates each other. I'm just saying that jokes can often still include truthful information and not be 100% non-related to the thread.

Agree with this.

Other Vis mentions that I didn't already have in here - chronologically, these should be ordered within their group of 4, but I pulled these after the search function gave me the finger (I guess it hates ISOs just like some people), so they might not be in the right spot chronologically relative to the other posts.

Someone remind me to look over Vis again when I’m not intoxicated.

Vis could go either way at this point. I need to iso her once I wake up more (and maybe take a nap, I only got like 6 hours of sleep) but I would consider voting there if she seems scummier than Dubz after my ISO of her.

Can someone (probably Dubz) explain why Vis posting the messages from her mod PM are so important? Maybe I’m just not understanding the significance. All it does is show Vis was possibly venting about being misyeeted. She could’ve sent those messages in wolf chat or in a role PM. It doesn’t say anything about her affiliation because she could’ve faked them or they could be legit. Just not sure why people are focusing on it so much and wondering if it’s fake or not.

For now, here’s my POE (aka the people I’m not reading as village): Cubs, Vis, Chaos, coop, and Dubz

Yeet Vis
I'm in the middle of shorty's ISO on her, and I don't like how the big picture looks when I'm looking at all of these posts compiled together.

I would be okay with a cubs or chaos yeet because I think we gain a good chunk of info from their flips, but Vis is scummier right now.

So this is pretty much the extent of what we get on alley's turnaround on Vis? The search is being fussy today so I'm going to go back through a couple of these pages to see if I missed something when it was having a tantrum, but I didn't see a lot of other discussion on her from alley. I mean, it can be helpful to have all the posts in one place like my ISOs do, but I'm just surprised by this turnaround. This vote tied Vis and Chaos with 85 minutes left to vote.
@alleycat03, now that Chaos has flipped, what info do you think we've gained?

She makes a reasons post that I already have in this ISO if you scroll up a bit. Note the similarities between what she said and what sunny said.

@supershorty You had this post in your ISO and said the bottom part gave you some feels but you didn't know why. It stood out to me too, and I think what felt weird to me was that she tried to sell us on getting rid of coop, but not by yeeting her. I kind of interpret it as a scum person trying to get someone (in this case, Coop) dayvigged so that she doesn't get the heat for misyeeting her. So the blame goes on the vig instead of her (Vis) for pushing the yeet. Just stood out to me because she was hypothesizing all of the ways to get coop killed without actually getting her hands "dirty" so to speak.

Dubz gave another interpretation of this after that I thought made a lot more sense. This feels like a convoluted explanation.

Most village

supershorty: Okay I don't want to get burned like I was during RvB with Samac, but like idk why anybody would question shorty being village. She's driving most of the discussion, is the top poster on thread by a substantial amount, and seems exactly like the village!shorty we all know and love. I cannot find a single thing from her posts that makes me feel off about her.

vetschoolsletmeinplease: It seems like she is reading my mind, because a lot of her commentary is extremely similar to what I'm thinking and I feel like her contributions are pro-village. I know discard analysis is ****, but she would not pick a scum role unless she absolutely had to. I know that we don't know for sure that her options were not only scum, but I also think we would be seeing a lot less uncertainty and hedginess from Please if she was scum.

sunshinefl: Yeah, we all know she's busy. And being busy does not mean that she is or is not scum. But the whole long post of her responding to shorty seemed reminscent of how she was responding to Zenge when he was focused on her in Baby Animals. Her frustration, insights, and commentary are pro-village, and based on her tone I think she is a villager.

Are they? I don't agree, and I think it's interesting that you have her so high up.

WildZoo: I feel like she is trying to control the thread less. I remember when she was wolfing in emojis it felt like she was controlling the discussion and really playing up the whole "I am a village who chokes and is wrong all the time" angle and she's not doing that here. I know at one point I was voting for her, but knowing now that Zenge was village makes me feel a bit better about her "buddying" with him. Also, if she's scum then her read on Coop is meaningless, and I'm semi-relying on her to read coop correctly. So I'm hoping she's village but I don't want to get bamboozled. The frustration she had when I voted for her and it was getting semi-close to being maj sounded legit.

Coopah: So we now know that her weird behavior on D1 was 100% her trying to get killed since she didn't want to keep playing. It seems like she has done a complete 180 and decided to be pro-village now. I'm a bit wary of her in general, especially with Dubz saying she would undoubtedly pick a scum role, but her contributions in the past few days have increased significantly and I feel better about her efforts in scum-hunting.

cubsrule4e: The main thing that has bothered me about him is playing up the sympathy card and the "woe is me" angle and being overly-defensive. It seems like he is very committed and involved with the game, but that doesn't mean anything definite when it comes to affiliation. I do think that cubs has definitely been throwing shade and trying to make the people who he feels are scummy look worse. His tone seems sketchy to me, but I am biased because his tone always seems sketchy to me. In conclusion, he just is borderline sketch to me and I will probably think he's suspicious until proven otherwise. I do think he looks less scummy when compared to Chaos though. I feel like it is a repeat of RvB where he is too sketchy for the scum to kill, but also not quite sketchy enough to get yeeted. One last thing, the sus that he put on shorty for her ISOs that "pinged" him makes me side-eye him a bit more because I am definitely not seeing what he's seeing.

Why is cubs this low in the list if you feel like this is a repeat of RvB, where he was village? His spot on the list doesn't seem to fit with what you're saying in this paragraph.

Chaostrodon: his efforts have really dropped off in the past few days. I remember when Zenge was thinking it was suspicious that he was so active early on in the game, and now he has gone to the other end of the spectrum and has barely posted. After reviewing shorty's ISO, I realized that he has not been as pro-village as I thought, and he's only dropped in here and there to give us a few reads and comments. I am still bothered by his confusing order of priorities regarding Vis' placement specifically (and then he put her as his most town read) but also seemed to be questioning her "starting" the yeet on Zenge. I think purposely dodging Cubs' question is also not a good look, and their tunneling on each other has been very counter-intuitive to scum hunting. Lastly, the way he omitted some of pleasy's posts and reordered them to cast more suspicion on her seemed pretty scummy to me.

This is how Chaos has played in every other game, so I'm not sure why she called it out.

Viscernable: Please see my posts above (purposely distracting, weird focus on things not pertinent to the game, comment about misyeets and her PM posting seemed off)

Scummiest

Hmmmm.

I’m so confused on how Dubz was killed if she’s a PGO? Does anybody understand the OOO on what kills would’ve “overrode” the PGO? Is that a thing? Could a ninja or strongarm kill do that?

Hmmm.

We know there's not a strongarm in the game because there's only 1 on the list and it was a discard.
Same with ninja.

And we just talked about how this probably happened, on posts that you read before you posted this (because I got notifications that you'd reacted to my comments).

Yeah I’m still confused so I’m looking over the greater roles page. Ninja and strongman were both discarded?

Okay so I went back and looked and pleasy discarded mafia strongman and chaos discarded ninja werewolf. So those aren’t possibilities.

Yes, remember the discussion about Chaos and please at the beginning of the game?

I remember pleasy discarded an important scum role but that’s about it. I know Zenge discussed her with his theory that scum might’ve picked “lesser” roles. But I didn’t remember what exactly they discarded so I just went back and looked

That wasn't Zenge's theory. He felt the opposite.

Wait whose theory was it then? Because I know it was discussed. Sorry I’m on mobile rn so the search function isn’t the best.

I know somebody brought up that people might have picked “weaker” scum roles to appear more village and try to get village cred. I thought it was Zenge but apparently it was someone else.

No, it was sunny. And they argued about it. I talked about it in her ISO.
Zenge felt (and I agreed) that it would be a poor scum strategy to discard a strong scum role that could shorten the length of the game by killing more effectively and take a weaker role in the HOPES of getting some village cred.

These interactions this morning felt all sorts of weird to me. Like, she'd read the prior comments (indicated by her reacting to them), but then it was like she hadn't read them. It felt weird.

 

[Viscernable]

what the heck
ugh
ok well then sunshine is probably where im going today but the majority is low so im not gonna do that yet
shortys the only person i feel really solid in my read on

shorty>>visc>cubs>alley>coopah>>sunshine

This list makes me feel better about pleasey, as well as seeing a reminder of the thing I saw earlier that makes me feel alley/pleasey are not w/w considering I’ve felt much worse about alley recently. I’ll try to explain my reasoning more when I have time but her reasoning for suspecting me feels very off and I really see sunny’s reasoning for her back in that first post sunny made on her. I don’t think sunny and alley are wolfing together but I feel one may be wolf/mafia/sk and one an alien (I don’t think there are two factions with a kill each night).

 

[Viscernable]

I guess I don’t see any reason against cubs/pleasey theoretically but I don’t see any reason to suspect it either. And I guess pleasey could be lone scum and replicating her village tone really well but she still sounds really village to me and I don’t see her with alley or sunny who along with cubs I feel worst about. Discard analysis is also a weak point in her favour, I still think she would not turn down a strong scum role for a weak one just for the WIFOM. It’s possible she thought there was another role option that was even better but strongman is quite strong (no pun intended)

 

[sunshinefl]

Nah nah nah
I very clearly stated that I was voting my second sus read to give you an extra day of evaluation. Since then you have done nothing IMO that’s more provillage than precious days.

Yes and nowhere did I say you didn’t say that at the time, but it doesn’t make it “village” to announce I am your most sus read but not vote there, pick off chaos where there was momentum, and then pick me off now that you and your scum friends are coordinating my yeet.

and where am I focusing on just you? I literally just dedicated like an hour and a half to looking into alley
You’ve framed it so that no matter if I look at you or if I don’t, I’m sus for doing so.

I didn’t say you were only talking about me. You’re exaggerating while claiming I am.
I’m saying (and this is the last time I am willing to repeat myself) that yesterday there was enough chaos momentum to make him a viable yeet so you picked him off yesterday despite saying he was your #2. Thereby setting it up so that with him out of the way you could work on picking me off today.

I stand by my vote on zenge for the reasons I stated. He wasn’t making sense to me, I wasn’t following his logic. Am I sorry he was village? Yes. It’ll make me better at reading him next game
meanwhile, you sus’d zenge until near end of day then used shortys reactions to build a hedge around yourself and call everyone else shady but yourself

Bro. No. I was sus’ing him yes but he was less and less sus (I demoted him back to concerned) the day you magically couldn’t understand anything he was doing. And I stand by my NOT voting for him. That’s not a hedge, that’s just not being so anchored in your initial read that you won’t take into account new information. And you can’t say I pushed and then suddenly dipped end of day when I was voting Visc the whole ****ing cycle.

absolutely, navigate to any of my reads lists and in the posts surrounding it directly on them you’ll see my reasoning.
im not saying you have to be 100% sure on anyone, but by your definitions your lists are almost completely composed of slight leans. Aka hedges

And yet, I was required to post things with my reads list rather than NEAR my reads list which is apparently acceptable for you.

you are correct. As an uniformed innocent in a multi-faction game without any bad guys flipped, I don’t feel very strongly about anyone. But I repeatedly post my RANKED reads list for all to see.

WHY DO I KEEP HAVING TO GO IN A CIRCLE ABOUT THIS WITH YOU GUYS?! I FIND IT MORE SUSPICIOUS YOU DONT FEEL UNSURE.

 

[sunshinefl]

YEET Pleasey

Also could go Visc but I need to get her on the board because her logic has really devolved.

 

[sunshinefl]

HERE YOU GO. A READ STRONGER THAN A LEAN.

3. @vetschoolsletmeinplease SCUM

Echoing; yeet voting out of her sus order to pick off town (I wasn’t a real possibility yesterday but now that she picked off chaos she can focus on me with the momentum there today); threw a bunch of shade on me over zenge when she herself said he wasn’t making sense his last day of life (which is actually when he made the most sense), logic is devolving badly now that I’m shining the spotlight on her

 

[Coopah]

YEET Pleasey

Also could go Visc but I need to get her on the board because her logic has really devolved.

For what it's worth I follow her logic quite well. Yours not so much. This looks rather retaliatory considering she was suspicious of you yesterday and only today you drag her down on your reads list.

Is literally anyone else susing pleasy? Buller? Buller?