Class of 2021 . . . how ya doin?

[that redhead]

Are you all not allowed to ask a rotation-mate to handle treatments on a certain day or time of day? My class was super collaborative and we’d help each other out a lot especially on hospital-heavy rotations like internal med.

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[Coopah]

Are you all not allowed to ask a rotation-mate to handle treatments on a certain day or time of day? My class was super collaborative and we’d help each other out a lot especially on hospital-heavy rotations like internal med.

We definitely do this, it's how we're able to travel at all, have a classmate cover you!

 

[Coopah]

We have a policy that went into effect last year for hours--at least for the required rotations--that is more or less not supposed to exceed 60 in a week and it's supposed be 10 hours for five days of the week and the remaining hours used for on call time and/or weekend patient care. And then you're supposed to be given 10 hours of rest if you work more than 16 hours in a 24 hour period or something.

The rotations I've been on so far--which is only two--follow this pretty well actually, but I've heard there are other rotations that consistently go over hours... but I don't know if that's them intentionally ignoring the policy vs students just not saying anything about it and no one is tracking their hours but them.

My only real complaint about the policy we have is that it seems we're not guaranteed any days off ever. If you have patients in hospital you may literally not get any days completely off for a long period of time because you still have to come in on weekends for patient care and I think that kind of sucks. Like, it's actively depressing to think about.

I also wish we had a better policy allowing us to miss a day of rotation for a doctor's appointment or some other reasonable thing that has to be scheduled during a week day. Because while we technically can miss a day and not have to make it up... it's contingent on the moderator approving it and you have to have done well in the rotation. I feel like we should just be able to miss a day for a valid reason regardless. It's just one day of a three week rotation. It's not going to make or break anything.

Yeah I feel you. Especially on neuro or internal med, you may not get any day off. I know a few professors who would either say no or dock your grade if you asked to go game after so many hours

 

[WildZoo]

Do they not have similar work rule restrictions in vet school?

Anyway, no idea how I got tagged to this post in notifications, but I figured Id contribute somehow!

Edit: I was actually kinda excited to come in and answer tarsorrhaphy questions again, or maybe something brand new eyeball related, alas in wasnt meant to be

SDN glitch probably

The SAVMA duty guidelines are relatively new, and also they are guidelines, not rules, so it's still up to the individual schools. I'm not sure how much the AVMA or COE or whoever has oversight on these kinds of things.

Progress is being made, but slowly, and the changes also have to made in consideration with not overextending interns and residents more than they are already overextended too. Much of our issue, and probably the issue at other schools too, is due to understaffing in the technician and vet assistant areas.

 

[Coopah]

SDN glitch probably

The SAVMA duty guidelines are relatively new, and also they are guidelines, not rules, so it's still up to the individual schools. I'm not sure how much the AVMA or COE or whoever has oversight on these kinds of things.

Progress is being made, but slowly, and the changes also have to made in consideration with not overextending interns and residents more than they are already overextended too. Much of our issue, and probably the issue at other schools too, is due to understaffing in the technician and vet assistant areas.

That was one of the points we talked about yesterday. We're so understaffed. "We've been trying to get a neuro tech for two years and nobody wants the job" maybe they should pay their techs more

 

[WildZoo]

My only real complaint about the policy we have is that it seems we're not guaranteed any days off ever. If you have patients in hospital you may literally not get any days completely off for a long period of time because you still have to come in on weekends for patient care and I think that kind of sucks. Like, it's actively depressing to think about.

Yeah we have this too...really sucks to go 3+ weeks without a single day where you don't have to be in the hospital.
Some rotations are trying to fix this. I was just on equine med and each of us got a full day off guaranteed, so other students on the rotation would cover inpatient treatments on a weekend day. We also made it work so each of us were actually able to get a second day, since we didn't have a ton of intensive inpatients. On farm animal they get a full day off as well, and it can be a weekday, which is nice for getting adult things done. It's kind of clinician dependent there. But nice to see these things getting implemented as rules instead of something you have to try to coordinate with rotationmates, which mich not always work out.

 

[WildZoo]

That was one of the points we talked about yesterday. We're so understaffed. "We've been trying to get a neuro tech for two years and nobody wants the job" maybe they should pay their techs more

Pay??? Pay the staff????? Preposterous.

 

[Coopah]

Yeah we have this too...really sucks to go 3+ weeks without a single day where you don't have to be in the hospital.
Some rotations are trying to fix this. I was just on equine med and each of us got a full day off guaranteed, so other students on the rotation would cover inpatient treatments on a weekend day. We also made it work so each of us were actually able to get a second day, since we didn't have a ton of intensive inpatients. On farm animal they get a full day off as well, and it can be a weekday, which is nice for getting adult things done. It's kind of clinician dependent there. But nice to see these things getting implemented as rules instead of something you have to try to coordinate with rotationmates, which mich not always work out.

According to our meeting yesterday, strangely we're the opposite. They emphasized if one person has an inpatient, we should all be there to help. I'm sure it is super helpful but I do want a day off at some point please

 

[Karabiner13]

Are you all not allowed to ask a rotation-mate to handle treatments on a certain day or time of day? My class was super collaborative and we’d help each other out a lot especially on hospital-heavy rotations like internal med.

Agree. On my rotations we would split up weekend duties so you didn't have to be there all the time and sometimes ended up with a weekend off

 

[WildZoo]

According to our meeting yesterday, strangely we're the opposite. They emphasized if one person has an inpatient, we should all be there to help. I'm sure it is super helpful but I do want a day off at some point please

Yeah that's dumb
Some people are into that because "things get done faster" but nah...if they can handle it themselves and get it done in an hour or less, no reason for everyone to come in. And if it turns out one person has an inpatient the whole time, then sure, everyone else can work together to get them a day off too.

 

[Coopah]

Yeah that's dumb
Some people are into that because "things get done faster" but nah...if they can handle it themselves and get it done in an hour or less, no reason for everyone to come in. And if it turns out one person has an inpatient the whole time, then sure, everyone else can work together to get them a day off too.

I like that way better

 

[PippyPony]

Is ophtho that intensive??? Dang

Ophtho is supposedly one of the cushy rotations at my school haha

 

[battie]

Is ophtho that intensive??? Dang

Imagine exclusively treating 1-3 year olds who can’t treat themselves, their parents don’t want/ can’t put medication in their eyes regularly so they hospitalized instead, and the child doesn’t understand that it’s for their own good and fights you every time.

at least, that’s my take of how it works. Plus there’s only 2 ophthalmologists and like 4-6 students per ophtho rotation for the whole hospital and horses like to do stupid things to their eyes

Our head of ophtho is hard core about business hours. Hardly on call, get in get out mentality. Shes really into having a life outside of the hospital, and feels students do way better when they have time away. Shes goals, to be honest.

Are you all not allowed to ask a rotation-mate to handle treatments on a certain day or time of day? My class was super collaborative and we’d help each other out a lot especially on hospital-heavy rotations like internal med.

We can do this and a lot of people try, but it is so class dependent. I've heard bad things about how the current fourth years are getting less and less flexible with each other. But this is the only way any of us will be able to go to our off campus stuff cause we're expected to do 7 am treatments for inpatients on Mondays before starting a new rotation.

is due to understaffing in the technician and vet assistant areas

Abso-****-alutely. We are free labor. Our current fourth years are working on getting the SAVMA guidelines implemented at my school, but they also wanted a compliance officer to be hired. I'd honestly rather that one compliance officer salary be used to pay for 2 more techs in literally any of our hardcore departments.

 

[SkiOtter]

Our head of ophtho is hard core about business hours. Hardly on call, get in get out mentality. Shes really into having a life outside of the hospital, and feels students do way better when they have time away. Shes goals, to be honest.

Amazing. Love her.

 

[cdo96]

Abso-****-alutely. We are free labor.

Free? No no no. We are labor that paid $50,000+ to be there. I don’t know who thought of the idea of making students pay thousands to work 60+ hours a week, but I hate them

Edit: and on top of that, study for the biggest (and most trivial) exams of your career so far

 

[Lupin21]

But, you have to learn somehow, and that is clinics. Keeping a positive attitude and having classmates all support each other makes 4th year a beast, but you get through it and hopefully come away with a decent foundation of knowledge for the next chapter in your career. Most of the time if something horrible comes up, you just do what you have to do. They have to put up the text that you have to follow this rule and that, but life is what it is. You can't let things seem like the end all be all when in reality, it is a tiny blip in time.

 

[battie]

We are labor that paid $50,000+ to be there. I don’t know who thought of the idea of making students pay thousands to work 60+ hours a week, but I hate them

One of my besties was told that we pay less for fourth year. It broke my heart to disillusion her.

But, you have to learn somehow, and that is clinics. Keeping a positive attitude and having classmates all support each other makes 4th year a beast, but you get through it and hopefully come away with a decent foundation of knowledge for the next chapter in your career. Most of the time if something horrible comes up, you just do what you have to do. They have to put up the text that you have to follow this rule and that, but life is what it is. You can't let things seem like the end all be all when in reality, it is a tiny blip in time.

I follow this for the most part, and I actually think clinics will be better with my class cause we are definitely way more collaborative. And I even get why we pay for fourth year. Just the safety aspect of having someone work 36 hours straight doesnt sit well with me.

 

[Lupin21]

One of my besties was told that we pay less for fourth year. It broke my heart to disillusion her.



I follow this for the most part, and I actually think clinics will be better with my class cause we are definitely way more collaborative. And I even get why we pay for fourth year. Just the safety aspect of having someone work 36 hours straight doesnt sit well with me.

It is happening less and less. It will always be possible as shifts have to be covered, but students advocating for each other and paying attention to their classmates is key. For instance, three of my rotation mates on internal medicine kept ending up with critical patients while I either euthanized or treated and sent home. I made sure to cover for them if they needed a little time for a nap or did their ER checks if they had more clients to see. This is what I mean by taking care of each other. It may be a 36 hour shift, but it doesn't mean it is done all by yourself.

 

[Coopah]

One of my besties was told that we pay less for fourth year. It broke my heart to disillusion her.



I follow this for the most part, and I actually think clinics will be better with my class cause we are definitely way more collaborative. And I even get why we pay for fourth year. Just the safety aspect of having someone work 36 hours straight doesnt sit well with me.

We actually pay more for forth year because we're paying summer "tuition" that just doesn't make sense to me personally.

 

[Lupin21]

We actually pay more for forth year because we're paying summer "tuition" that just doesn't make sense to me personally.

yeah, most pay more since summer semester is included. Plus, I had to take out more as I needed to cover cost from end of school to first paycheck. It gets tight.

 

[WildZoo]

School covers summer tuition for us but considering I was able to make some money the previous two summers and there are added costs (externships and NAVLE and all that) 4th year still ended up being more expensive for me.

 

[WildZoo]

I will reiterate though that even with the issues I prefer clinics to sitting in the classroom by far. A lot of it has been super cool and fun. I'd rather be sleep deprived from actually working and taking care of patients vs studying for exams any day.

 

[Coopah]

yeah, most pay more since summer semester is included. Plus, I had to take out more as I needed to cover cost from end of school to first paycheck. It gets tight.

Add in registering for NAVLE, state boards, DEA if your practice doesn't cover it. Then if you're an intern your first paycheck isn't gonna cover much

 

[Coopah]

I will reiterate though that even with the issues I prefer clinics to sitting in the classroom by far. A lot of it has been super cool and fun. I'd rather be sleep deprived from actually working and taking care of patients vs studying for exams any day.

Yes, for the most part I am extremely looking forward to clinics. I just wish things could be better planned

 

[Lupin21]

I will reiterate though that even with the issues I prefer clinics to sitting in the classroom by far. A lot of it has been super cool and fun. I'd rather be sleep deprived from actually working and taking care of patients vs studying for exams any day.

yeah, having the concepts turn into practical application is marvelous. Plus, the light from the end of that tunnel is so beautiful once the NAVLE is done. It's really like the first flower blooms in spring and the world seems a little more colorful again. lol

 

[cdo96]

Oh yeah I definitely understand why everything’s done, just kinda annoying

And then if anyone questions anything, we get hit with the “well that’s how it’s always been done” which as we all know is a fantastic approach to everything

 

[Lupin21]

Oh yeah I definitely understand why everything’s done, just kinda annoying

And then if anyone questions anything, we get hit with the “well that’s how it’s always been done” which as we all know is a fantastic approach to everything

Hard to change policies just like people. :/

 

[SkiOtter]

One of my besties was told that we pay less for fourth year. It broke my heart to disillusion her.

Nah we just don’t pay summer tuition but it’s still the same cost

 

[vetmedhead]

Yeah, I'm worried about the sleep deprivation aspect the most because I have a variety of health things that make serious sleep deprivation a really bad idea for me

But I am excited to see actual patients and clients, troubleshoot cases, and generally not sit for 4-8 hours a day

 

[cdo96]

Hard to change policies just like people. :/

You’re not wrong

but despite my outward pessimism that I frequently get in trouble for, I really am excited for fourth year and my externships. I have a lot of experience in a similar sort of set up, and I know that sleep deprivation aside, I do much better getting grilled in clinics than sitting for written exams

 

[Lupin21]

You’re not wrong

but despite my outward pessimism that I frequently get in trouble for, I really am excited for fourth year and my externships. I have a lot of experience in a similar sort of set up, and I know that sleep deprivation aside, I do much better getting grilled in clinics than sitting for written exams

I guess I was lucky. I never felt I was overtaxed, except for equine med. I was the only one comfy around horses that rotation and had my hands full with Sassy, a wicked little filly who tried to kill me at every turn. lol

 

[PippyPony]

I guess I was lucky. I never felt I was overtaxed, except for equine med. I was the only one comfy around horses that rotation and had my hands full with Sassy, a wicked little filly who tried to kill me at every turn. lol

I start official rotations with equine medicine, and as a horse person who has worked in the hospital for a couple of years, I'm already anticipating being called upon to work like heck haha

On the plus side, I'm starting off on a service where I theoretically will have a leg up, so I'm grateful for that

 

[PippyPony]

will have a leg up

...lulz...equine lingo drop not intended

 

[PippyPony]

Yeah, I'm worried about the sleep deprivation aspect the most because I have a variety of health things that make serious sleep deprivation a really bad idea for me

I routinely oversleep through multiple alarms as it is, and as an older student, don't have the all-nighter capacity I once had.

My biggest clinics-related worry for sure.

 

[Lupin21]

I routinely oversleep through multiple alarms as it is, and as an older student, don't have the all-nighter capacity I once had.

My biggest clinics-related worry for sure.

You have to take care of yourself and do what you need to do to get sleep during the day. I honestly think I survived without issue because I know my body well as an older student and adapted to the changes by providing it what it needed both before and after hour changes. I do that now as well when I pick up ER shifts here and there for extra monies and experience.

 

[PippyPony]

Well...sleep ...and also puking when I see worms, vomit, or stomach comments... or fainting when I see gushing blood... because all of those things have happened to me with relative consistency despite exposure therapy.

My mind says "let's do this!" and my body says "nope, i don't think so."

(But that is less of an actual worry and more of a resigned feeling that I'm going to be justifiably mocked my unsympathetic classmates for being a such a n00b)

 

[Coopah]

I start official rotations with equine medicine, and as a horse person who has worked in the hospital for a couple of years, I'm already anticipating being called upon to work like heck haha

On the plus side, I'm starting off on a service where I theoretically will have a leg up, so I'm grateful for that

... They said we'd have our schedules by the end of February

 

[Lupin21]

Well...sleep ...and also puking when I see worms, vomit, or stomach comments... or fainting when I see gushing blood... because all of those things have happened to me with relative consistency despite exposure therapy.

My mind says "let's do this!" and my body says "nope, i don't think so."

(But that is less of an actual worry and more of a resigned feeling that I'm going to be justifiably mocked my unsympathetic classmates for being a such a n00b)

I have faith in you!! You'll pull through. Don't carry the negative with you, learn from whatever and move on. That works best. Carrying every mistake or bad day is what takes people down a dark path. Compliments given and received are very necessary as well from your classmates and if they aren't providing it, come over here and I'll pat you on the back!

 

[PippyPony]

I have faith in you!! You'll pull through. Don't carry the negative with you, learn from whatever and move on. That works best. Carrying every mistake or bad day is what takes people down a dark path. Compliments given and received are very necessary as well from your classmates and if they aren't providing it, come over here and I'll pat you on the back!

Oh, I didn't mean mocked in a bad way. I meant teased in a good natured way that's akin to when 3rd graders figure out they can make their friends screech by lobbing snot rockets at them at lunch lol

I'm lucky to have a great class overall and definitely hit the jackpot with the people who will be with me on rotation

(But thank you just the same -- I am sure I'll be here looking for additional cheerleaders. The best part of grueling experiences is the bonds, stories, and knowledge acquired along the way, and that applies to online as well as the "real" world!)

 

[Lupin21]

Oh, I didn't mean mocked in a bad way. I meant teased in a good natured way that's akin to when 3rd graders figure out they can make their friends screech by lobbing snot rockets at them at lunch lol

I'm lucky to have a great class overall and definitely hit the jackpot with the people who will be with me on rotation

(But thank you just the same -- I am sure I'll be here looking for additional cheerleaders. The best part of grueling experiences is the bonds, stories, and knowledge acquired along the way, and that applies to online as well as the "real" world!)

I definitely had a moment in jr surgery that I was getting too hot under the lights and I was like... I must step away or face plant into this dogs open abdomen. lol

And hey, you'll have a fun superlative to win for the "we've graduated" silly awards ceremony. (if your school doesn't do this, I highly recommend good natured ones.

 

[PippyPony]

Spoiler: Picture example - no quotes

I was trying to pass a stomach tube while not simultaneously puking into the poor cow... and so my friends took pictures in case I blew chunks, because memories are made of these precious moments

*poof*

^tell em how I really feel.

Maple is a real good cow.

 

[Caiter92]

The only time I've ever hated clinics was when I ended up working 7 am to 3 am on a Sunday with three back to back emergency surgeries and then had to be at school for patient care at 630 in the morning. We went from 5 to 8 ICU patients with that and there were only 4 of us and we had to be done by 8 am because it was the first day of a new rotation.

I literally fell asleep during rounds in my new rotation lol

Other than that, 1000000x better than all day lectures.

 

[Caiter92]

That Monday was also the first day of school for the underclassmen and I wanted to murder all the first years for being so full of happiness

I am glad no one asked me for directions that day to a classroom. I was so dead inside I probably wouldn't have been able to answer haha

 

[WildZoo]

Most of the time I probably could get more sleep. The problem for me is a misalignment with my natural sleep tendencies and the hours that I need to be awake. It's hard being a night owl sometimes lol

Very rarely has a lack of sleep been like, directly related to my clinics hours. I'm also very aware that I do pretty well on decreased sleep so it's just often not a huge priority for me if I want to spend the time doing something fun. Ymmv on that.

 

[Caiter92]

Most of the time I probably could get more sleep. The problem for me is a misalignment with my natural sleep tendencies and the hours that I need to be awake. It's hard being a night owl sometimes lol

Very rarely has a lack of sleep been like, directly related to my clinics hours. I'm also very aware that I do pretty well on decreased sleep so it's just often not a huge priority for me if I want to spend the time doing something fun. Ymmv on that.

I could easily get 8 hours of sleep a night on most rotations. I just prefer to stay up until like 1 watching Netflix and then get like 5 hours of sleep and be sad

 

[WildZoo]

Yeah I have to be up in a little less than 6 hours lol

 

[PippyPony]

I saw my parents last night and made the mistake of saying I had struggled on some recent exams and need to do as well as I can on the next ones to make up for it, and the conversation goes:

Mom: "you will do well."
Me: "oh, thanks Mom. I will certainly try."
Mom: "No. This is your mother speaking: you will do well on your exams." *piercing glare*
Me:

 

[battie]

@PippyPony sorry for your parents not being understanding

 

[PippyPony]

@PippyPony sorry for your parents not being understanding

They are, my mom just likes to think she speaks the word of God sometimes

 

[finnickthedog]

Only 4 days left of my second rotation (excluding patient care if I have one over the weekend). I'm going to miss neuro. Especially since I have to go deal with the large animals next. For 6 weeks.