Fall Reading WWeek Short/Small Game - Interest/Signup thread

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Stagg viewed Mel-AM interactions to be V/W and I’m seeing similar from above. Also Mel’s feels are similar to shelter’s and Pawsy’s feels with AM dismissing all as shading her. But I keep reading Stagg’s reads on AM and it just seems that he viewed AM to be wolfy in a way and that led to him getting nightkilled.
 
Whatever. I'm not playing this game. Everyone can cry at me when it ends that they're sorry but I'm staying on the wolf.
 
Crayola227 said:
To make you ask the question. It's pure WIFOM and a great wolf move.

Also, sobriety with me is always a relative term, even though I don't drink all that often. Also, well read thoughts? I laughed out loud.

I think lynching absentee people is the exact wrong thing in this game. I think that works better in larger games where losing a few quiet villagers in the hunt for quiet wolves isn't as damning. Plenty of wolves wolf by hiding in plain sight.

I think if we want to look at less activity, than Mel is suspicious, but that's true no matter what he does.

Stagg has proven to be a vocal wolf. He's also pulled the whole "let's go for Cray and then when that looks like a push for easy mislynch back off" as a wolf. He's therefore hard to read and a great threat.

AM will run village as a wolf. I sometimes detect a change in her posting, not always. I don't feel wolf from her this game. However, as soon as I say that, when she's a wolf, she'll do a 180 and come at me HARD.

Paws has also proven that she will "run" village as a wolf.

PBC did this too.

I haven't seen Lawper play many games. He did coast as a noob wolf before, however I absolutely would not expect that from him now, if a wolf.

Honestly, the most suspicious people to me right now are the ones calling for the deaths of more quiet players.

Plenty of wolves will do this, especially as we get to parity and their voices are sounding out as much as the villagers' are.
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Cray’s read on AM is interesting especially with her prior warning on never to underestimate AM

“AM will run village as a wolf. I sometimes detect a change in her posting, not always. I don't feel wolf from her this game. However, as soon as I say that, when she's a wolf, she'll do a 180 and come at me HARD.”

Cray probably got nightkilled for being an outed power role but that read is just a bit striking in a way.
 
Lawper said:
It’s more like capri following AM’s lead for whatever reason. It would fit well given the timing of these votes, with capri blaming her delay on reading slow.
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Here, I'll give you some reasons for my D1 voting. They were there, but I'll repeat myself.
I voted you originally as a joke for the rehab game. (Edit: And I said I was going to do this in sign-ups, which you conveniently omitted, so trying to use that as an indication of affiliation is a little odd.)
When I came back I was tied for the lead with Shelter.
So I switched my vote to Shelter for obvious self-preservation.
Literally none of this has anything to do with AM or following her voting pattern.
As for the slow-reading "excuse," it's true, I've even said it before in WWedding, when I was village:
capri1722 said:
I'm getting there! I just read slow... 😳
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The context was that it was ~45 minutes before lynch close and I was getting my usual early game sketch votes. I hadn't voted yet and was reading to catch up before I cast a non-self-prez vote (if possible).
 
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capri1722 said:
Here, I'll give you some reasons for my D1 voting. They were there, but I'll repeat myself.
I voted you originally as a joke for the rehab game. (Edit: And I said I was going to do this in sign-ups, which you conveniently omitted, so trying to use that as an indication of affiliation is a little odd.)
When I came back I was tied for the lead with Shelter.
So I switched my vote to Shelter for obvious self-preservation.
Literally none of this has anything to do with AM or following her voting pattern.
As for the slow-reading "excuse," it's true, I've even said it before in WWedding, when I was village:

The context was that it was ~45 minutes before lynch close and I was getting my usual early game sketch votes. I hadn't voted yet and was reading to catch up before I cast a non-self-prez vote (if possible).
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Who are your two wolves
 
Stagg737 said:
This is something that had me thinking, WIFOM incoming on AM potentially being a wolf:

On the surface it's an okay move, because she could begin to shade Dandy then Dandy dies and it looks like someone is trying to frame her. More experienced players could easily see through that strategy though as it just draws unnecessary attention to her in the wrong way. As a wolf you want to draw some attention (usually), but it has to be the right kind. This would not typically be the right kind imo and could easily be called out as a dumb wolf move, to which she could say "yea it would, so it supports me being village". My question is would wolf AM do that? It's definitely a more high-risk type of move and Idk what AM's wolfing style is, but it seems like it would be pretty bold for her.

The other thing that made me raise an eyebrow there was Mel's response that it would be stupid wolf move. It could be, but played the right way it can be a strong move as well and the reasoning is pretty WIFOM. I feel like Mel gets plenty of tin-foil theories, but I feel like he tries to avoid wifom when possible and something about the wording and timing of that comment seemed off to me. I still need to go back and iso a bit, but I feel like this has been a bit of an odd/off game for me so far and I need to re-analyze things a bit.
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Despite an admitted WIFOM reasoning, Stagg seems to be onto something here regarding AM-Mel interactions on the context of Dandy. In a way, Stagg lays out a possibility on how it could make sense for a Dandy contingency vote to work with the Dandy nightkill. It might be bold but it might not be stupid.
 
Stagg737 said:
Let's think about that for a minute. I've played a total of 5 or 6 games. My most vocal village game was Colorado, which was my first time playing. Second game every was Smash, which was my second week of residency and an IM rotation, so I had almost no time to contribute and it was a 60+ page game. Next game I played was WWedding where I was lynched D1 for RNG voting. Next game was Lurking, aka my glorious return. The next game I played was Halloween, which I got NK'd N1. Which brings us to this game. So I've really only been active in my debut, my wolf game, and now. So what are you actually basing this statement off?

Also, this game has significantly fewer posts than most of the other games I was active in. Colorado ended up being over 40 pages and Smash was over 40 pages by the third day. So I think it seems like I'm more active because this game is so much less active than a lot of other recent games.



This is something that had me thinking, WIFOM incoming on AM potentially being a wolf:

On the surface it's an okay move, because she could begin to shade Dandy then Dandy dies and it looks like someone is trying to frame her. More experienced players could easily see through that strategy though as it just draws unnecessary attention to her in the wrong way. As a wolf you want to draw some attention (usually), but it has to be the right kind. This would not typically be the right kind imo and could easily be called out as a dumb wolf move, to which she could say "yea it would, so it supports me being village". My question is would wolf AM do that? It's definitely a more high-risk type of move and Idk what AM's wolfing style is, but it seems like it would be pretty bold for her.

The other thing that made me raise an eyebrow there was Mel's response that it would be stupid wolf move. It could be, but played the right way it can be a strong move as well and the reasoning is pretty WIFOM. I feel like Mel gets plenty of tin-foil theories, but I feel like he tries to avoid wifom when possible and something about the wording and timing of that comment seemed off to me. I still need to go back and iso a bit, but I feel like this has been a bit of an odd/off game for me so far and I need to re-analyze things a bit.



That seemed a bit off to me as well, as said above.



Really? I had no idea I pocketed anyone other than BJ. Seriously though, my ego about that game is already big enough, I don't need more encouragement.



My point wasn't just that I saw you were on. My point was that you were on, people here were asking you to check in, then when you did your initial response was not well thought-out and seemed retaliatory/overly defensive. It reminded me of Safari before you were confirmed as alpha. If this were a large game or you had a ton of posts to catch up on that would be one thing. But at that point we weren't even on page 5 yet, so I expected at least something other than you saying the two people who voted for you/tagged you to be suspicious. I also thought your initial post after you found out you were leading the lynch made me want to leave my vote on you. Because if you were a wolf, the blocker claim is a great way to try and gain some desperate village cred. If you're village, you potentially screwed village by revealing that without even trying other ways to defend yourself. It did not help village either way. Here's the response I initially wrote up to your post, but decided to wait to post because you decided to actually catch up and play:

"Okay, kind of pissed about this post. If you read the literally 3 pages of game play (that's nothing Cray, c'mon) you'd know the seer is already dead. Got NK'd last night.

Addressing post volume, it's a speed game and likely to last less than 4 days. If you're basically not here for 2 full days wtf are we supposed to do? Let you just skate? Because that's literally how wolves won last game. Everyone just ignored Allie because she wasn't around and she ended up being the wolf. If you're not going to play, then why shouldn't we vote for you?

I didn't WANT to vote for you because of inactivity. It was a pressure vote more than anything, which is why you've been tagged about 20 times. If you're literally going to contribute nothing though, I will vote for you. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Especially when you were posting on other threads instead of catching up on literally 2 pages of game play which takes all of 10-15 minutes it's shady.

Also, if you're actually village and just role revealed a PR like that, then you just screwed the village. Seriously, this actually makes you seem more like a wolf to me grasping at straws to try and last 1 more day."

I get that irl stuff takes priority and that you may do other things on SDN as well, but you came on and made a post implying you had at least read some of it because you gave opinions on wolfiness. So you should have seen how little there was to catch up on but your reasoning was still retaliatory. People weren't tagging you simply due to inactivity, it was because we were literally 1 day off of Mylo and you had contributed almost nothing. How are we supposed to figure out where you stand? Flip a coin? So the pressure wasn't just for inactivity, it was due to inactivity at what is likely endgame.
Click to expand...

By the way, this giant Stagg post likely alarmed the wolves into the thoughts of dealing with wall posts from a villager so they tragically axed him.
 
StayingPositive2017 said:
Who are your two wolves
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Honestly, and this might sound a little crazy, but I think Lawpy and AM might be like

Think about it, they're two of the top three targets today. 2/3 chance we lynch a wolf. It might be worth it for them to sacrifice one of their own and then push for a mislynch with added village cred tomorrow.
 
capri1722 said:
Honestly, and this might sound a little crazy, but I think Lawpy and AM might be like

Think about it, they're two of the top three targets today. 2/3 chance we lynch a wolf. It might be worth it for them to sacrifice one of their own and then push for a mislynch with added village cred tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I can say the same for you
 
Crayola227 said:
AM feels a little off. I feel like village AM tends to be a bit more decisive at least in directing questions. Wolf AM can be pretty decisive at FOS (finger of suspicion, pointing it) or in the shadows. I'm torn on her.
Click to expand...

I think this Cray read on AM continues with her uncertainty that she expressed. Cray also notes that wolf AM could be decisive at FOS or “in the shadows”, but the takeaway is she feels something is off about AM. This “little off” feeling is hard to describe as noted unsuccessfully by shelter in D1. But Cray also directly warned on never to underestimate AM, never to put AM on a pedestal as a village leader and also expressed concerns that AM’s no lynch suggestion might be a “plot”.

My point is to show Cray’s uneasy feelings towards AM that was shared by others like shelter.
 
Lawper said:
I think this Cray read on AM continues with her uncertainty that she expressed. Cray also notes that wolf AM could be decisive at FOS or “in the shadows”, but the takeaway is she feels something is off about AM. This “little off” feeling is hard to describe as noted unsuccessfully by shelter in D1. But Cray also directly warned on never to underestimate AM, never to put AM on a pedestal as a village leader and also expressed concerns that AM’s no lynch suggestion might be a “plot”.

My point is to show Cray’s uneasy feelings towards AM that was shared by others like shelter.
Click to expand...
You're grasping at straws with this one

What book are you?
 
muttmanager said:
I don't trust AM right now but, I also think that too obvious. If she's a wolf, why contingency lynch someone then kill them the same night, weird.

I'd like to hear some sober, well read thoughts from Cray

and more from @Melchizedek what are your AM feels now?

I don't know if lynching absentee people is the right move this game.
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Crayola227 said:
To make you ask the question. It's pure WIFOM and a great wolf move.

Also, sobriety with me is always a relative term, even though I don't drink all that often. Also, well read thoughts? I laughed out loud.

I think lynching absentee people is the exact wrong thing in this game. I think that works better in larger games where losing a few quiet villagers in the hunt for quiet wolves isn't as damning. Plenty of wolves wolf by hiding in plain sight.

I think if we want to look at less activity, than Mel is suspicious, but that's true no matter what he does.

Stagg has proven to be a vocal wolf. He's also pulled the whole "let's go for Cray and then when that looks like a push for easy mislynch back off" as a wolf. He's therefore hard to read and a great threat.

AM will run village as a wolf. I sometimes detect a change in her posting, not always. I don't feel wolf from her this game. However, as soon as I say that, when she's a wolf, she'll do a 180 and come at me HARD.

Paws has also proven that she will "run" village as a wolf.

PBC did this too.

I haven't seen Lawper play many games. He did coast as a noob wolf before, however I absolutely would not expect that from him now, if a wolf.

Honestly, the most suspicious people to me right now are the ones calling for the deaths of more quiet players.

Plenty of wolves will do this, especially as we get to parity and their voices are sounding out as much as the villagers' are.
Click to expand...

The WIFOM part reads something similar to what Stagg pointed out
 
Roles are likely unrelated to the flavor and book name. I wouldn’t try to make too much sense on the flavor here since it’s easy to get misled.

But hey, feel free to think I’m a wolf because I got stuck with an appealing book name that’s been assigned to me randomly. I’m just more focused on showing why AM and capri are wolves.
 
Animal Midwife said:
@Melchizedek @StayingPositive2017 You're weirding me out by how much you're shading. What outside of my activity is bothering you?
Click to expand...

StayingPositive2017 said:
What activity? That's the problem. While some posts have had good content, that activity is few and far between (only four posts today, two of which JUST happened). Where are your questions? You even admitted that you are frozen, and we both know you have trouble overcoming that as a wolf. Who are you currently investigating? Also is it really "shading" if I am blatantly saying I am concerned by your play this game?
Click to expand...

I mentioned this before few times but just highlighting things for a specific emphasis
 
Lawper said:
Least wolfy = least i suspect to be a wolf.

After getting burned by getting pocketed in a powerwolfing strategy and getting burned by inactive wolves coasting through, I can't reliably assess who's village with confidence. All I can do is say who I most strongly suspect to be wolf and vote there.

Trusting no one is a valid village strategy.
Click to expand...

Just a heads up that I already pointed this out in D2 in case people forgot
 
Lawper said:
I had shelter in my lean wolf reads D1.



shelter flipping village affected my reads so I had to reassess. Still keeping my vote on Cray unchanged however. .​
Click to expand...

And also mentioned here about the changing reads and why i had to reassess. It’s common for villagers to see where they went wrong initially and what they missed to help identify wolves
 
Stagg737 said:
@StayingPositive2017 , you asked for my thoughts, here they are:

Cray: If she's village I'm pissed at her. Not for suspecting me, but because role revealing a PR like that out of spite without even trying to catch up on thread screws village. Kind of seems like a wolfy move to last an extra day in a speed game, but also something I could see emotional/pissed Cray doing, so willing to hold that vote for now.

Mutt: One of my top wolf candidates. In her first game she was much more active, inquisitive, and tried to give more reads. I feel like she's been laying low more. It also feels like she's been posting things which seem like she's participating without actually adding a lot of original thought. Could be a noob villager trying to be more analytical, but also gives me feels that it's a noob wolf trying not to draw too much attention. I guess when I've watched noobs play multiple games, their metas they have a style that changes gradually from game to game, but Mutt's seems to be noticeably different to me which I don't like.

Mel: Per typical Mel he's making some good points but also seems sketchy to me. There've been a few things that were said that pinged me a bit because I thought "that would be a something an experienced wolf might do" then he addressed it. I'm not sure if that means we're just seeing the same things or if he's the experienced wolf. I'll also add that the Mel/AM interactions don't feel V on V to me, and I'd be more surprised to have them both flip village than have one of them flip wolf.

AM: A lot of my observations on her have already been addressed in thread. Not as many questions early on. Decent post volume but felt like there was more side-convos than normal for AM. I'm not sure where I'm at on her, so she's sitting in my neutral to wolfy-lean pile with Mel.

Paws: Feels village to me, but is also apparently a fairly strong wolf, so sitting in my neutral to village-lean pile with Capri and Lawper.

Lawper: I've only played one game with him and haven't really seen him play much. I don't really know his norm let alone what wolfy Law looks like. He hasn't voted to lynch himself yet, so I guess that's a plus? Or is it? Lol. While I have village feelz from him, my gut/brain is saying to keep him in the neutral pile.

Capri: Not feeling wolfy vibes from her. Will have a better grasp on her when I go back and iso her.

Me: Totes a villager, obvs.
Click to expand...

Another detailed Stagg post but in its complete form. Already mentioned about Stagg’s thoughts on AM-Mel interactions
 
Crayola227 said:
OK, now that I realize Dandy was Seer and was NK, it's quite possible that she did seer me last night, and I got the notification. I've definitely seen games where the seer gets to go down with results. If I modded a game, I would do the same, because it's sadistic for them to die with the knowledge.
Click to expand...

What i’m getting confused here is Mel also reported being watched in N2. That went unexplained because Mel isn’t currently active
 
Crayola227 said:
This makes no sense to me. For a wolf move it's just dandy. I don't know if AM would do that, my sense is that she's generally conservative as a wolf, just as she is as a villager.
Click to expand...

This returns to the conservative vs bold WIFOM interpretation. I think if anything, this further supports the WIFOM question employed smartly by wolves so it’s smart and bold
 
Crayola227 said:
Doesn't matter that you're dead, it's worth stating, that it is FAR FAR easier for wolves not to waffle to please the crowd. Villagers truly being in the dark, unless they tunnel which isn't good play, will be FORCED to waffle, there's no other way to play. They will have thoughts and they will be wrong, and they will need to backtrack and adjust as needed.
Click to expand...

An important Cray post here. The bolded statement is also key and something to note.
 
StayingPositive2017 said:
Ok, so just gonna lay it all out since its mylo.
Village Leans: AM, Mel, Cray these are based on things they've said and done
Neutral (so wolf?) leans: Capri and Lawper hasn't done anything to convince me otherwise, though Lawpy sounds a lot like he does in spec chat so conflicted there.

Convince me i'm wrong in either direction
Click to expand...

I think this is falling into the overtrust trap that Cray was referring to before
 
Crayola227 said:
I actually saw you write this once in spec chat, and I wrote essentially a one page treatise on where you have this wrong that I never finished and sent off.

Maybe I've just been burned too many times by wolves using me as their distraction and easy mislynch. So my suspicion of people voting me for very little reason actually has something to it, it's not just purely retaliatory.

In wolf chats I've been in, it's frequently discussed who is a difficult village mislynch (WZ being one) and who doesn't need to have a NK wasted on because village will kill them for you. So yeah, the paranoia of wolves going for me on thread is real.
Click to expand...

I have a similar paranoia of wolves too Cray. Thanks for elaborating
 
StayingPositive2017 said:
Contingency lynch Cray

I'm still feeling nervous about AM which is abnormal for me.

Mel is null because not enough content. Stagg I'm feeling good about right now. Im going to read through again a bit later and think on the others, just wanted to get a couple thoughts in before night close
Click to expand...

Sometimes go with your gut
 
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