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Let's be honest. Black students are preferred at these schools. No matter what anyone says.

To say otherwise is to be delusional. It would be like saying that managers don't hire attractive secretaries, but the most qualified. While there are shades of truth to that, we all know what easily determines the tie breakers.

Finally, someone without the wool over their eyes

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What do you consider a handout? Getting into medical school with an MCAT or GPA that is deemed by you to be low? There are people of all races and ethnic groups that get into medical school with low mcat and gpas. It may seem more pronounced because of the small number of underrepresented minorities applying to medical school but there are many more asian and caucasian applicants that get in with a below 30 MCAT and below 3.6 GPA just because of the sheer number of asian and caucasian applicants versus underrepresented minorities.

In addition, MCAT and GPA do not tell the whole picture of an applicant. We can stare at numbers all we want but applicants are not only numbers. There is a story to every person and its up to the adcom to decide whether or not they believe that given the information they have that they could succeed at their medical school. GPA is arbitrary because of so many compounding factors like school difficulty, professor attitude, class composition etc. The MCAT does not tell how well a student will do in medical school. As a predictor of future success, it is a pretty weak one. That is why the interview, activities and letter of recs are used to help decide if this student is "worthy" of a seat at X medical school.

Every person who applies to medical school has the opportunity to tell the tale of their hardships and difficulties and passion. If someone is disadvantaged then they should put it, regardless of race or background. Aside from a second look for a interview at some medical schools, what handouts are minorities receiving? Being URM, like LizzyM and other people have said, only can get you to a certain point (the interview). It is up to you to wow the interviewer and state your case for yourself. If a URM has a seat in a medical school it wasn't a seat he/she stole from anyone, they deserved the seat and worked for it.

Also, as another point, URMs are given extra consideration because we need a physician workforce that mirrors the population. People are usually more comfortable with people of their background (yes, it sucks but people are only human). We need more minority doctors to man not only the urban clinics and underrepresented area hospitals but all specialties so we could be truly representative of the population.

My 2 cents...


Your point about URMs being given extra consideration holds some face validity, but is not the main reason. Schools are either required or receive extra funding if they increase their proportions of URMs. This is simply unethical. Affirmative action was set in place to undo the ignorance that prevented women and minorities from being considered equally in the workplace. We have reached the equilibrium point with this and its tipping way over. If you disagree with this, than what is your objective and quantifiable reason why we have not reached equality? No disrespect to anyone, i respect anyone who has had to overcome obstacles to get to where they are at. I'm 1st generation college and i had to work 35+ hours a week through undergrad to make it to an ivy.
 
I live in the DC area, and we jokingly refer to Howard as HUH? ( Howard University Hospital.) In the hospital I work in, you will get some good-natured flack if you go there, but at the end of the day you're still a doctor is what I say. They are notorious for being problematic to deal with. My advisor warned me not to go there, but with those stat requirements...?

So you bet, I applied. No shame in that.

As a nurse, I've seen good residents come from there, and bad ones. I've also seen good and bad ones come from Harvard. So I truly think it's what you make of it and has more to do with the work ethic of the individual than the school.
 
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uh huh . . .

what do YOU think the demographic is in most "underserved" communities?

i already regret posting in this thread at all, but come on. i just can't understand people with this mindset. where do you grow up? how are you not exposed to the extreme inequality that minorities still face every day? i don't know where you live but in here in Chicago it makes me sick to see the vast differences in the quality of education and healthcare (among other things) from neighborhood to neighborhood- that is, neighborhoods with a primarily black population are getting screwed. it didn't get that way overnight, and it isn't so easy to just break the cycle either. again, not to generalize across the country, but based on my experience attending/ tutoring at various schools in the chicago area, it's easy for me to see why inequality persists. parents live in a crappy neighborhood because it's what they can afford. kids are born into the neighborhood, the schools are crappy, and they are already at a disadvantage. they have a crappy education, so they can't move somewhere better, and then THEIR kids are born into the same neighborhood with crappy schools. and so on. being driven is not always enough to break the cycle of a crappy situation that you couldn't help being born into. sometimes, you need some help, and thats where HBCUs and the URM thing come in.

corpsman, perhaps you should spend some (or a lot of) time volunteering in such an underserved community before you presume to know what it's like. or at least spend some more time reading* or thinking about how and why things are the way they are. that way next time you express your opinion it won't sound so uninformed.

OP, don't be sorry, it isn't your fault that people . . . you know.

*http://www.nymbp.org/reference/WhitePrivilege.pdf
http://www.raceandhistory.com/selfnews/viewnews.cgi?newsid1024893033,80611,.shtml
those are just a couple things, of course, you could find much more . . .


I urge you to read the five faces of oppression, maybe it will give you a litle more perspective.

What you, and many people on here, are describing is poverty. I lived the majority of my life in slums (including the north side of chicago) and can tell you that they are full of blacks, whites, latinos, and so forth. Poverty is not just a black problem, and for a school to declare it wants doc's to practice in underserved BLACK communities is horrible
 
uh huh . . .

what do YOU think the demographic is in most "underserved" communities?

i already regret posting in this thread at all, but come on. i just can't understand people with this mindset. where do you grow up? how are you not exposed to the extreme inequality that minorities still face every day? i don't know where you live but in here in Chicago it makes me sick to see the vast differences in the quality of education and healthcare (among other things) from neighborhood to neighborhood- that is, neighborhoods with a primarily black population are getting screwed. it didn't get that way overnight, and it isn't so easy to just break the cycle either. again, not to generalize across the country, but based on my experience attending/ tutoring at various schools in the chicago area, it's easy for me to see why inequality persists. parents live in a crappy neighborhood because it's what they can afford. kids are born into the neighborhood, the schools are crappy, and they are already at a disadvantage. they have a crappy education, so they can't move somewhere better, and then THEIR kids are born into the same neighborhood with crappy schools. and so on. being driven is not always enough to break the cycle of a crappy situation that you couldn't help being born into. sometimes, you need some help, and thats where HBCUs and the URM thing come in.

corpsman, perhaps you should spend some (or a lot of) time volunteering in such an underserved community before you presume to know what it's like. or at least spend some more time reading* or thinking about how and why things are the way they are. that way next time you express your opinion it won't sound so uninformed.

OP, don't be sorry, it isn't your fault that people . . . you know.

*http://www.nymbp.org/reference/WhitePrivilege.pdf
http://www.raceandhistory.com/selfnews/viewnews.cgi?newsid1024893033,80611,.shtml
those are just a couple things, of course, you could find much more . . .

I do not believe my opinions are uninformed, they are based on my personal experiences LIVING (not tutoring) in underserved areas
 
I'm glad that my desire for equality is comical to you

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

oh gawd...lost soul...confused beyond what I could originally fathom

The one thing I have learned on this site is to never waste too much time attempting to help others (especially premeds) view something from a different perspective.

It is always sad when several posters, who most likely come from different walks of life, ALL recognize the issue with said statements and yet the person who presented these statements does not realize why he/she received such acerbic &/or cynical responses.

But then again, maybe that is just a character trait of most premeds...
 
That all depends on your stats. I also noticed that Howard has lower GPA and MCAT scores than a lot of other allo schools according to the 2010 MSAR, but am really thrown off by the "historically black" university. I personally refuse to give any application money to a school that has such a large percentage of one race. On the other hand, their website states that you only need a 22 MCAT to be compeitive and there is no residency requirement. I dont know if this is true or just a ploy to get more people to apply (and get more money). Either way, no thanks



Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. You gave me a great laugh.


I know, right?! :laugh: that seriously cracked me up!
 
You people , except for Corps and one other, are living in a dream world.

I have not only grown up poor as hell, I have worked, volunteered, taught, and everything else with poverty stricken people, uneducated people, of every race and creed under the sun. You would be hard pressed to find someone on this thread with more experience than me in healthcare working with varying populations, with my sort of background.

80-90% of my patients are poor and black or hispanic. Some are poor and white. Of those poor people, most of whom ARE black and hispanic, the majority live in goverment subsidised housing. They get welfare, food stamps, and everything else for free from the government. Their kids go to camp for free, get free daycare while their parents sit on their a*** or go to training programs that they never get jobs after, and everything else. Know what else? THEY HAVE THE BEST HEALTHCARE ON THIS PLANET. They have Medicaid, because they have no real income. FOR FREE.

On the other hand, my patients that work their asses of in jobs that they make a pittance at to barely PAY their rent (rather than getting free rent through Section 8 or some such thing), can't get any health care coverage vbecause they "make too much" for Medicaid type programs. So tell me who is "underprivilaged" here, huh?

My parents came from another country with two cents to their name. My grandfather didn't even get past the 4th grade because he had to drop out of school to start working to help support his family when he was only ten years old. But want to know what? My family STRESSED EDUCATION. My parents had 10 of us living in a studio apartment that they struggled to pay for themselves, working all day, so that me and my siblings could go to decent public schools. Poor, poor, poor by any standards, but they would have rather cut out their own kidneys and sold them than accept a hand out, food stamps, welfare, or anything else. When I was in school I remember being horrified when I was told my family was eligible for free food lunches because we were poor, but my mother refused that help in lieu of working to feed us herself. It's a matter of pride, not race. It's a matter of personality, not color of your skin. Dont blame the fact that some people are just stupid on race. If you are an intelligent person you can make things happen for your kids. If you are a ***** then I guess that's your effing problem, but somehow it becomes tax payer's problems like myself.

You people are blind and pathetic if you think that things like affirmitive action and "historically"-any-colored colleges are acceptable. You know how racism perpetuates? By continuing to flag people as different.

I have had NO better opportunities in my life by being white and of a background that some consider to be "rich", which is ridiculous because that's as stupid as saying all blacks are poor. There are poor, underserved whites, and rich, affluent blacks. I have had NO hand outs, and NO benefits from being white. NONE. In fact, one of my best friends, a perspn I've known and is like my sibling my entire life, and who also has a simliar financial background and grew up in the same neighborhood, except they're black, has been actually BLESSED to be black.

When we applied to college, I had marginally better grades than them. I did about 100 points better on the SAT's. I worked my a**s off even in high school in a job to have some spending money, and worked 40-60 hours a week all throughout undergrad to support myself. My friend never had a job until they graduated college. They had worse extra-curriculars than I did. They couldn't even pass the exam to get into the high school I went to, but hey, because they were black and also poor they got a full ride to a boarding school on a 'minority' scholarship.

guess who also got into Yale with a scholarship? They did. Guess who didn't get any of that? Me. Did I have better grades and experiences? Yep. I didn't fit their URM mold tho. I ended up in a good university anyway, but I guarantee you I had to try much harder than my friend did. I love this person like a family member, we are close friends to this day, but even they will admit they had a leg up in the school process.

So before you tell me I "don't understand" the "struggles" of "minorities" (the word itself is a joke...as a person of a certain background, which I won't list for anonymity, I am more of a minority than a black person as there are far fewer of us...isn't that what the word 'minority' means???), then think that I do, very much so understand, both from growing up poor AND working in so-called 'underserved' communities. I understand VERY well that the ability to succeed has little to do with skin color. It has NOTHING to do with it. It has to do with how much you want it and how much your family supports you. Family support also has nothing to do with skin color. It's not my fault that black and hispanic men have such a high rate of leaving their children with single mothers, whereas in my culture it was not even a question-- if you got a girl pregnant, you married her and stayed with the kids. Different cultures....but somehow I am punished for being white, right?

In fact, I went to a special high school that I got into because I worked hard to get in there, and I recall 'minority' parents protesting my school one year because they felt the entrance requirements were 'biased' to minorities. Are you effing kidding me? The entrance requirements tested natural intelligence. My black friend who went to Yale couldn't get into my high school as they took the exam and failed miserably. This person WENT TO YALE and couldn't pass an IQ test to the level my school required. What's the point of testing intelligence if you make allocations for lower scores based on skin color? I never understood that. It's like black people or other minorities who protest such things are saying that THEY themselves feel they are too stupid to pass the standards us "white" people do, so we should dumb down the admissions process for them. Isn't that an insult to themselves? Don't you want to be based on the same merits as everyone else? In my world, and I have been in healthcare a long time now, the black doctors are treated exactly equal to the white ones. They are respected based on their knowledge and work ethic, not on their skin color.

You people who think we are still living in 1943 where segragation was a feasible alternative for some people....YOU are the only ones perpetuating the race issues.

There will ALWAYS be bigots, racists, and idiots on BOTH sides of the fence. It is a part of humanity to be hateful and stupid and ignorant, you can't erase that from all of humanity. But nowadays there is no such thing as blacks not being allowed entrance to a school just because they are black and therefor the notion of a "black" university or anything simliar is idiotic. Do you see Asian univerisities? Jewish ones? Hispanic ones? There's Yeshiva University, but I guarantee you they arent allowed to classify themselves as "historically jewish" and show obvious preference to anyone with the last name of Steinberg. Give me a break. If I have to have a 32 MCAT and 3.6 GPA to get into a certain school, you better believe that someone who is Protestant, Jewish, Christian, Black, Asian, Indian, male, female, and everything else should be measured by the SAME EXACT expectations. To say that given two people, one black and one white, and given the same EC's, experience, and background, that the black person should be admitted to this school over the white person purely on skin color is absolute bull.

The only people who are racist and blind are you ignorant fools who really think that underserved medical communities are that way because of race. Underserved medical communities are that way for ONE reason and one reason only...MONEY. Poor people have less money for medical facilities, it has nothing to do with black or white. If you go to the country my mother is from, there are not really any black people. You want to know what's funny? My mother's "people" were considered "black", even though here we are considered "white". Strange eh? But hey, this is America. Land of the racist *****s. I lived in Europe for years and there was not NEAR this level of OBSESSION as there is in this country with focus on race. There are no historically "black" colleges in England, because people realise how STUPID that notion is. Underserved areas are such for ONE color and that is GREEN...money, not race, dictates where doctors want to work and hospitals want to be built. MRI machines aren't cheap. Doctors don't want to pay a quarter of a million dollars for school so they can be paid half as much as the guy in Johns Hopkins.

If anyone is going to tell me that a black student is more likely to work in a poor neighborhood out of some moralistic dedication to their "people" you are out of your mind. I work with doctors both black and white and they work where they get paid well to work. I work with one BLACK doctor who is working there specifically because she is in that program where she gets loans repaid in exchange for working in an "underserved' population, and not remotely because she wants to give back to her "people". She is planning on getting the hell out of dodge as soon as her contract is up and some loans are repaid by the program because she is sick of the salary and ungrateful patients who all live off the government. SHE IS NOT ALONE IN THIS> I see very educated, intelligent black physicians come through here with the same ideals, who are disgusted with the community because WE see first hand some of these people for who they really are. SOME are truly underserved. Some are just lazy a**h*les who spend generations living off our taxes.

Yes, it is true that people often feel comfortable talking to someone of the same race, but that gets less as time goes. You perpetuate race relations the way you are here, and things will STAY this way.

I am white. Probably 90% of my patients right now are black and hispanic, with the rest a mix of white and others. My patients love me, get along with me, and I treat them wonderfully no matter who they are, and they in return are comfortable with me. If I have ever had a person who was uncomfortable with me I can guarantee you it was not because I was just some white person, but because they themselves were brought up with a racist mindframe wherein only other black people can 'understand' them. Racism is racism, whether its black on white, white on black, asian on hispanic, or anything else. The term "reverse racism" is idiot at best, because it makes no sense.

Go tell schools you want to be treated the same as your white counterparts, which includes being admitted based on the same merits, grades, and everything else. But you won't, will you? No. Why? Because you are human and want a leg up just like anyone else. At least admit it.

You want equality? Then start practicing it.
 
YeahRightWhatev: TL;DR

OP, here is my advice:

Each medical school gets 5000 to 10,000 applications for a hundred spots. Trying to get into one specific school is like trying to shoot a basket while blindfolded. Having skill helps, but it really comes down to luck. You need to APPLY BROADLY and not rely on or hope for any one school.

You'll find lots of applicants who get rejected from "safety" schools while getting accepted into "reach" schools. You'll see 4.0 students with great ECs get rejected from a school while below-average students get accepted to that same school. That is how random this process seems.

That said, you have two options: apply now, or hold off and raise your GPA. With your low GPA, I highly recommend holding off. However if you do apply now, apply to everywhere including Howard. Do not rely solely on Howard or anywhere else because your stats fit.
 
OMG, I love these people that think that living on Welfare is awesome and you don't have to work and all of your rent and board are completely paid for. What a glamorous lifestyle living on EBT is.

The funny thing is, the people I run into with this mentality don't even make enough yearly to afford the taxes that pay for these programs. Some people just seem to really like blowing hot gas.

When I first started premed I considered Howard as a back up. Shoot, I even researched joining the 7th Day Adventists so I could backdoor myself into Loma Linda. Luckily I wised up and just got a decent gpa.

There was a South Park episode recently about Corpsmans problem. You just have to admit to yourself that you just don't get it. I mean, 'reverse racism'? WTF man.
 
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from hbcu to welfare...u can push this even further
 
OMG, I love these people that think that living on Welfare is awesome and you don't have to work and all of your rent and board are completely paid for. What a glamorous lifestyle living on EBT is.

The funny thing is, the people I run into with this mentality don't even make enough yearly to afford the taxes that pay for these programs. Some people just seem to really like blowing hot gas.

When I first started premed I considered Howard as a back up. Shoot, I even researched joining the 7th Day Adventists so I could backdoor myself into Loma Linda. Luckily I wised up and just got a decent gpa.

There was a South Park episode recently about Corpsmans problem. You just have to admit to yourself that you just don't get it. I mean, 'reverse racism'? WTF man.

You have no idea what you are talking about whatsoever. I deal with these people daily for 8 years. Out of every 10, maybe one is legitimately trying to get back on their feet. The rest are content getting free rent, bills, insurance, food and their meager montary payments, and then finding largely illegal "hustles" as they call them to supplment their "income". One clever one entails traiding food stamp vouchers to the local convenience store. You give the store $400 worth of vouchers, for nstance, which they in turn get from the government in cash. For that, you get $300 back to spend as cash as you please rather than on food like you are supposed to. Clever eh? I learned this one from many, many of my patients.

Or the drug sales, the "off the truck" stolen goods sales, the other 'hustles'. How else do you think people on welfare walk around speaking on bloody iphones huh? I don't have a freaking iphone yet. How does my 26 year old patient, with 6 children by different fathers, and who is pregnant again, tell me how she contributes to anything in this life? Alas, she gets the same wonderful medical care I give to everyone else. She is waste of my time, but I do it anyway in the hopes that maybe one of her kids won't be a total waste of life like her, though it's likely they will go down the same route.

You are naive, and know now of what you speak, this much I assure you. I speak from experience, much of which I sometimes wish I never had. Naivette is easier to live with, believe you me, but this world is not flowers and poor people are not always innocent.

But I digress, the point I made was that if you want equality, then it seems illogical to them demand that you have different admissions standards than other people. Do poor people deserve more poorly trained doctors? No I dont think so. So why should it be ok for one race or "URM" to get away with being admitted with significantly inferior statistics and academic abilities?

You are only perpetuating the myth that blacks are dumber than whites and therefor need these special accomodations, or else they'd never get into school. And if that were true, I wouldn't want those idiots treating me medically anyway. But it isn't true, so these separations are irrelevant and idiotic. You want equality? Act like it, as I said. You can't want to be equal and then demand special treatment at the same time....those two things are mutually excusive. Get it past your small mind and realize that I speak not from crap I read online or information I magically decided in my head like you from limited or non-existant experience in these matters, but from significant daily interactions I experience in my 8 plus years in medicine.

Grow up. All you are doing is wah wah wah with no facts or real life to draw from, kiddie.
 
You're probably not even reading this anymore, but to succinctly answer your question, your ehtnicity has nothing to do with applying to Howard, though I have to tell you, I'd have rather done a D.O. at a more reputable school if it was betwen that and Howard. Go look up Howard University medical and accreditation problems they have been having with their rotations and you'll see why. I wouldn't want to go to a school with such poor standards of maintaining clinical education for their patients.

But if you do more research and decide you for whatever reason like this school, go for it. It is technically illegal for any school to discriminate based on race at all. And who knows, since technically you would be in the minority in this institution, you might even get the leg up here. Hahaha.

Seriously though, you're only at first year. See what your total grades and MCAT will be before you get paranoid. You may be better off in the long run than you think, many often are, and many are going D.O. nowadays. Schools like PCOM and MUCOM are very well respected. I went MD, I could hve done DO and been happy too.

Peace out. Hope you figure it out.
 
yawn

Welfare Fraud Costs <<< Military Spending, Tax Cuts for upper 1%, ect

It's just not a big enough problem for me to care about. Not until everything else that matters is solved first.

If you know someone defrauding welfare you have a duty to report them. If they exist at all that is. :strawman:
 
Bravo to YeahRightWhatev :thumbup:

I saw intelligent high school student drop out as soon as they turn 18 and live on welfare, and that make me sick to my stomach.

You must be REALLY old...as of 1996, TANF only lasts for 60 months. Period. End of story. That's all the welfare anyone can receive.

Hence the T.

What "welfare" are people living off of, that you know of?


http://www.amazon.com/American-Dream-Three-Nations-Welfare/dp/0670892750 You might want to read this - it describes the origins of AFDC and the TANF replacement in detail. Did you know AFDC was implemented to SUPPORT women not working? At the time, working mothers was considered a shame and something to be avoided. And you apparently didn't know that Temporary Assistance for Needy Families is, well, temporary...
 
You have no idea what you are talking about whatsoever. I deal with these people daily for 8 years. Out of every 10, maybe one is legitimately trying to get back on their feet. The rest are content getting free rent, bills, insurance, food and their meager montary payments, and then finding largely illegal "hustles" as they call them to supplment their "income". One clever one entails traiding food stamp vouchers to the local convenience store. You give the store $400 worth of vouchers, for nstance, which they in turn get from the government in cash. For that, you get $300 back to spend as cash as you please rather than on food like you are supposed to. Clever eh? I learned this one from many, many of my patients.

Or the drug sales, the "off the truck" stolen goods sales, the other 'hustles'. How else do you think people on welfare walk around speaking on bloody iphones huh? I don't have a freaking iphone yet. How does my 26 year old patient, with 6 children by different fathers, and who is pregnant again, tell me how she contributes to anything in this life? Alas, she gets the same wonderful medical care I give to everyone else. She is waste of my time, but I do it anyway in the hopes that maybe one of her kids won't be a total waste of life like her, though it's likely they will go down the same route.

You are naive, and know now of what you speak, this much I assure you. I speak from experience, much of which I sometimes wish I never had. Naivette is easier to live with, believe you me, but this world is not flowers and poor people are not always innocent.

But I digress, the point I made was that if you want equality, then it seems illogical to them demand that you have different admissions standards than other people. Do poor people deserve more poorly trained doctors? No I dont think so. So why should it be ok for one race or "URM" to get away with being admitted with significantly inferior statistics and academic abilities?

You are only perpetuating the myth that blacks are dumber than whites and therefor need these special accomodations, or else they'd never get into school. And if that were true, I wouldn't want those idiots treating me medically anyway. But it isn't true, so these separations are irrelevant and idiotic. You want equality? Act like it, as I said. You can't want to be equal and then demand special treatment at the same time....those two things are mutually excusive. Get it past your small mind and realize that I speak not from crap I read online or information I magically decided in my head like you from limited or non-existant experience in these matters, but from significant daily interactions I experience in my 8 plus years in medicine.

Grow up. All you are doing is wah wah wah with no facts or real life to draw from, kiddie.

i really doubt certain patients you see as a "waste of your time" are getting the desired amount of attention they deserve. Seeing as how you seem to care more about where they get their iphones and how they use their foodstamps. I'm not in favor URM/AA(don't really care either way), but I'd say that whole above mentality you have as a physician(allegedly) is the reason for HBCU and the goal to increase the amount of blacks/mexican/native american physicians. I think a large percentage of those groups would spend more time treating their patients and exhibiting better physician/patient interaction than worrying about why your patients have iphones and poor little you does not.

Seeing as how you have 3 whole posts to your name and you recently joined, I seriously hope you're just a pre-med trying to gain an edge in a "debate" with alleged physician status. If these people are a waste of your time, then go somewhere else and let someone either white/black/asian/hispanic that has shown that they want to work with this patient population take over, after all they need care too and it's the purpose of medical schools to select individuals that have a higher chance of serving these communities.

p.s. all doctors must pass their boards. mcat/gpa =/= medical knowledge
 
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i always forget that being a premed automatically makes you entitled to judge another human's worth
 
You must be REALLY old...as of 1996, TANF only lasts for 60 months. Period. End of story. That's all the welfare anyone can receive.

Hence the T.

What "welfare" are people living off of, that you know of?


http://www.amazon.com/American-Dream-Three-Nations-Welfare/dp/0670892750 You might want to read this - it describes the origins of AFDC and the TANF replacement in detail. Did you know AFDC was implemented to SUPPORT women not working? At the time, working mothers was considered a shame and something to be avoided. And you apparently didn't know that Temporary Assistance for Needy Families is, well, temporary...


Actually, this happened last year. I don't know the details, but the girl was very vocal about dropping out and live on welfare for the rest of her life. If laws are like what you said, then I don't know what she's gonna do in six years. I do know for now, she's not in school anymore, and she did not graduate from HS.
 
yawn

Welfare Fraud Costs <<< Military Spending, Tax Cuts for upper 1%, ect

It's just not a big enough problem for me to care about. Not until everything else that matters is solved first.

If you know someone defrauding welfare you have a duty to report them. If they exist at all that is. :strawman:

Welfare and Medicaid fraud is a serious issue, and if you can't understand the relevance to your life and your country's economy , then you are too stupid for me to even bother reasoning with, so I shan't bother. You can't teach someone with the brain of a flea to comprehend the world of the dog. Though I must say that if you intend to be a physician one day, your denial about the importance of people taking advantage of governmental systems and the effect that may have on the overall economy and thus availability of healthcare to many people is shocking. It really amazes me how many stupid people become med students nowadays, and sadly schools with these terribly pathetic admissions standards don't help. I mean, to think people get admitted to med school with a M on even the writing section, the easiest part of the whole exam.....to think someone who has to contemplate intricate personal and emotional situations who can't even fathom how to write a simple little essay or two in 30-60 minutes is really sad to me. Anywa I digress, this has gone way off topic. My original point was meant to argue against the purpose or even existance of ANY school that purposefuly markets itself as a "primarily ABC-ethnic" school....

As well, I cannot report people, thereby breaking confidentiality between them and I, because of rampant stories they tell me and no physical proof. Another reason you idiots scare me as future physicians, though I pray the importance of keeping patient info confidential becomes more apparent as your studies go on. You are immature now, but I'm hoping you get it sooner or later. The only time I would break confidence with a patient is if there was immediate threat of harm to themselves, or someone else. Your moral sense has no place in medical ethics as far as confidentiality goes. I've had a man come in and test positive for syphilis and refuse to allow me to speak to his wife about it. I had to smile at her as she left the waiting room, where she has probably already contracted it herself. The nature of the environment I work in would reveal alot about the person's treatment if I were to go blabbing based on what would eventually be considered hearesay anyway.

FYI- all that yawning could indicate poor oxygen levels, you might want to get that checked out.

And, to whoever said I must be really old...I am not, I assure you. Before I graduated med school, I worked in the medical field in another capacity, but with a simliar patient population. I used to write on this board under another screename and felt there were too many "identifying" elements in my otherwise complacent posts, and seeing as how these are slightly argumentative, it would behoove me to remain anonymous here because, as I said, arguing with idiots generally only results in frustration, though perhaps my point is that if one or two people read this and see the other argument and it makes them think a little deeper into the situation rather than *Yawn* and ignore an obviously important subject like some dimwits, I've done my duty for the evening. Back to work with me.....my break is over and I can't sleep anyway. Insomnia is a terrible side effect of medicine sometimes, be prepared to never sleep again . Unless you do derm or ENT, then you can sleep alot ;-)

later.
 
The thing is, whether it is your fault or not, you are ignorant to the lives of certain minority groups. You just have no idea what you are talking about because you have never experienced life as one of these minorities. So until you do or educate yourself on this topic, chelala's responses to you are perfectly sufficient.

My problem with these programs, is that every black person I have met with below average stats that still gets in, came from an upper middle class family and will go back to the suburbs.

I also get angry when people assume white people come from privilege. I am from the trailer park, mom left early, dad drank himself to death.
finished in the top of my class and was never given a scholarship, but a black girl who finished 2nd to last was on a full ride, and I doubt she is going to the hood, all her friends and husband are white
 
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Moved to school-specific discussions.

As a reminder, everyone would benefit if this discussion were kept civil.
 
My problem with these programs, is that every black person I have met with below average stats that still gets in, came from an upper middle class family and will go back to the suburbs.

I also get angry when people assume white people come from privilege. I am from the trailer park, mom left early, dad drank himself to death.
finished in the top of my class and was never given a scholarship, but a black girl who finished 2nd to last was on a full ride, and I doubt she is going to the hood, all her friends and husband are white

That's the thing, you do come from privilege...white privilege. You've been through a lot and I'm sorry for that, but that doesn't negate the fact that you are white and for your entire life will never experience the prejudices a minority encounters on a daily basis (even upper-middle class minorities). Your situation looks like you would be disadvantaged and would get a leg-up for that. I love how people believe they know how to choose a med school class better than actual adcoms. Most of you make judgments based on gpa and mcat alone and do not consider any other aspects of the application. If it were up to yall, med schools would be full of a bunch of anti-social drones. Anyways, this topic will always be beaten to death from both sides and racism will never end. Why? This is because the majority will never understand what minorities go through because they don't care to. Although there is less racism than, for example, in the 60's, racism is still prevalent today everywhere but it is just not as blatant. So since racism will never end, minorities have to deal with it their whole lives and whites have to deal with what they consider to being discrimination in the med school admissions process. If they can deal, you can deal. So take control over what you can and forget about the rest. Like I said before, all of you won't mention this again after you get accepted because you don't care for the "non-urm cause," you just care about your own situation.
 
Actually, this happened last year. I don't know the details, but the girl was very vocal about dropping out and live on welfare for the rest of her life. If laws are like what you said, then I don't know what she's gonna do in six years. I do know for now, she's not in school anymore, and she did not graduate from HS.

DOn't try to apologize. There is, "technically" , supposed to be a limit and rules as to how to receive certain welfare, but this person only listed TANF, ignored SNA, and a million other categories. There are plenty loopholes to jump through if one wants to keep receiving welfare. I've got one patient who hasnt worked in well over 8 years and he's still happily receiving help. Yes, he had a "burp" in his benefits, wherein he had to go back to the shelther for a few months, but its all been taken care of.

I have another women living in the same facility, receiving the same public assistance as she was 7 years ago.

Don't ask me how they do it, but they find ways to do it. You have to know how to beat the system, and many of htese people make a career out of beating the system.

You guys really are sheltered. Don't believe everything you read in newspapers. Things that happen on the street are usually starkly in contrast.
 
That's the thing, you do come from privilege...white privilege. You've been through a lot and I'm sorry for that, but that doesn't negate the fact that you are white and for your entire life will never experience the prejudices a minority encounters on a daily basis (even upper-middle class minorities). Your situation looks like you would be disadvantaged and would get a leg-up for that. I love how people believe they know how to choose a med school class better than actual adcoms. Most of you make judgments based on gpa and mcat alone and do not consider any other aspects of the application. If it were up to yall, med schools would be full of a bunch of anti-social drones. Anyways, this topic will always be beaten to death from both sides and racism will never end. Why? This is because the majority will never understand what minorities go through because they don't care to. Although there is less racism than, for example, in the 60's, racism is still prevalent today everywhere but it is just not as blatant. So since racism will never end, minorities have to deal with it their whole lives and whites have to deal with what they consider to being discrimination in the med school admissions process. If they can deal, you can deal. So take control over what you can and forget about the rest. Like I said before, all of you won't mention this again after you get accepted because you don't care for the "non-urm cause," you just care about your own situation.

Woooow, seriously, the only racist here is you if you think anyone coming from a poor, pathetic, abusive childhood is privileged purely because they are white. You must be out of your pea-brained mind.

Get your mind out of 1923. Black people have the same rights, opportunities, and everything else as anyone else nowadays. Sure, if you go to some southern or midwestern areas there might be a few more racist tendencies, but it's not just against black people. "White" people like Jews get bashed in these same areas too, so give me an effing break. I've had someone tell my jewish friend that she was a dirty, money grubbibg "****" and that they're sorry all her people didn't killed off in world war II, which, I might add, is 100 years more recent than any black slavery issues.

So really, your ideas of equality in america are antiquated and idiotic, at best.

In most coastal and northeastern and western cities, the whole notion of someone with good qualifications getting passed over because they are black is total baloney. In fact, in most schools around this country, you are at an ADVANTAGE if you are an intelligent black person, and at BEST you are neutral as an intelligent white person and most certainly NOT advantaged by that fact. Get your facts straight and stop going on hearesay and utter BS you picked up on some google search somewhere.
 
Looks like this thread has been hijacked by some bozos who were denied admission into Howard and now they are throwing a pitty party. Should I start playing my violin now?
 
Woooow, seriously, the only racist here is you if you think anyone coming from a poor, pathetic, abusive childhood is privileged purely because they are white. You must be out of your pea-brained mind.

Get your mind out of 1923. Black people have the same rights, opportunities, and everything else as anyone else nowadays. Sure, if you go to some southern or midwestern areas there might be a few more racist tendencies, but it's not just against black people. "White" people like Jews get bashed in these same areas too, so give me an effing break. I've had someone tell my jewish friend that she was a dirty, money grubbibg "****" and that they're sorry all her people didn't killed off in world war II, which, I might add, is 100 years more recent than any black slavery issues.

So really, your ideas of equality in america are antiquated and idiotic, at best.

In most coastal and northeastern and western cities, the whole notion of someone with good qualifications getting passed over because they are black is total baloney. In fact, in most schools around this country, you are at an ADVANTAGE if you are an intelligent black person, and at BEST you are neutral as an intelligent white person and most certainly NOT advantaged by that fact. Get your facts straight and stop going on hearesay and utter BS you picked up on some google search somewhere.

You don't get it and I'm not going to spell it out to you because it would take a semester-long course on African-American history for you to gain a small understanding. To gain a full understanding, be a minority...wait you can't do that. Oh well. I never said that Blacks don't have an advantage so get your facts straight. I've talked to a former adcom and was told that certain minorities are placed in their own pile and compete against each other for spots. My point is, this is done for a good reason (need of more minority physicians). So yes there is an advantage to Blacks and I believe it is rightfully so. And non-urms kill me. The school I'm matriculating to in about a week had 4 blacks last year, yet these 4 blacks out of like 180 are taking all your spots? That is laughable. I'm not living in the past; I'm just not ignorant (not necessarily your fault) to what occurs today. You simply do not know and do not care to know, like most non-urms, and I am not about to teach you something it would take months to get you to begin to understand. I knew someone just like you who used to say "everyone has equal opportunities blah blah blah." After informing themselves of the other side of the issue, they now speak a different tune and said to me personally, "wow I never thought about it that way. It makes sense." I could care less if you inform yourself or not because like said, racism will be out there forever. And once again you make another assumption. I never said anyone on here was racist; I simply said they are ignorant, merely uninformed. Just because I am saying racism will never end does not mean I'm racist, I'm just real, and if you believe it will end...wait you are a non-urm, so you probably think it already ended and is gone for good. Lol.
 
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Looks like this thread has been hijacked by some bozos who were denied admission into Howard and now they are throwing a pitty party. Should I start playing my violin now?

Seriously, or some who are only worried about themselves. Honestly, if this topic was brought up by med students, I would respect them for fighting for a cause and trying to help the future non-urm pre-meds. The fact is that all you care about is your situation and once you get accepted, who cares about the 4 blacks who got accepted that you don't think should have. Anyways, the vast majority of med students understand the significance of URM status and its pertinence to the field of medicine.
 
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Can I be URM for being left-handed? You righties will never know what it is like to be a southpaw. I have to sit in "special" designated desks, have trouble performing "handshakes", and scissors might as well be labeled "righties only".

You "privileged" right-handers will never understand the perils of living as a lefty in a righty's world.
 
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