HoWWrses: Game Thread

[Crayola227]

You were blocked last night when no one died?

God I wish we could stop with the sort of chatter about abilities that gets people killed. I get it that we want to talk about it enough to make decisions on Mel's claim, which is really the only place I see utility in it imho.

Best believe Mel would ability claim as a wolf, knowing that he can't be NK for it, in an attempt to get people to come forward with their PRs. Then it's on the thread and then it doesn't implicate any PM partners, just anyone that can read. Then when he doesn't die, it can just look like the wolves have all the other obvs outed village PRs to kill first, and the wolves are saving him because he's gonna be an attractive lynch target over it. So much WIFOM to use to hide behind.

In fact, I've seen him do just this sort of bait/leak thing as a wolf before. I think it was CO or Michigan, whichever was first. Could be wrong I tend to be about past games.

No, I was NOT blocked. Thankfully we only have my word to take for that, and we had to have a big chat about abilities.

I have a suspicion not only about a watcher/tracker in this game, but who that might be. But I'm leaving it alone beyond saying that I think a watcher/tracker and not just a blocker exists in this game. I think it is the huge presence that visited me N7.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Caiter92]

I'm still not getting it.

If there's one blocker, they're automatically a wolf?
Is that what you believe or are you saying thats what Cray's logic is dictating?

That's what cray is saying if I'm reading it right. If we only have one blocker left, it would make most sense they'd be wolf. We already had a delayed village blocker. Would village really have two blockers and wolves have none?

 

[Crayola227]

I'm still not getting it.

If there's one blocker, they're automatically a wolf?
Is that what you believe or are you saying thats what Cray's logic is dictating?

I'm not following mechanics well right now since I'm perpetually tired and missing a lot of pages of game and suck at mechanics.

You have claimed blocker. I believe we have a huge presence that does not block actions. This could be a watcher/tracker or some such. I make NO claims on almost any ability being AI. IMHO it is not abilities but how they are used and what agenda it appears to serve, that I use to assess them.

 

[genny]

I have a suspicion not only about a watcher/tracker in this game, but who that might be. But I'm leaving it alone beyond saying that I think a watcher/tracker and not just a blocker exists in this game. I think it is the huge presence that visited me N7.

You weren't watched/tracked by a villager N7. I think you may have skipped a few posts here and there.

 

[Melchizedek]

That's what cray is saying if I'm reading it write. If we only have one blocker left, it would make most sense they'd be wolf. We already had a delayed village blocker. Would village really have two blockers and wolves have none?

a passive delayed blocker is not the same as a blocker. There is no active utility for blocking kills, the two are not opposite.
Thats not me defending my role, thats just me talking about good game design from a mod's POV. I'd be making this same point regardless of being the blocker or not.

 

[SkiOtter]

You were blocked last night when no one died?

I thought that was interesting too.

 

[SkiOtter]

I think we have assumed this whole time it was a blocker but no one is getting blocked

Stagg got blocked by the huge presence.

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

Stagg got blocked by the huge presence.

Stagg's action didn't go through because his target died

 

[SkiOtter]

Stagg got blocked by the huge presence.

wait jk I remember now he said his action didn’t go through because sar also died that night and was the target

 

[genny]

a passive delayed blocker is not the same as a blocker. There is no active utility for blocking kills, the two are not opposite.
Thats not me defending my role, thats just me talking about good game design from a mod's POV. I'd be making this same point regardless of being the blocker or not.

This sounds like something I've heard recently.... a mimic is not the same as an ability seer, both could be village..... Now who was it who said that?

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

How the HECK has it not come up earlier that there aren't 2 blockers? It has taken 7 days to clear this up???

 

[SkiOtter]

How the HECK has it not come up earlier that there aren't 2 blockers? It has taken 7 days to clear this up???

Well if it’s not tracking and I don’t think it’s protection then what the hell is it

 

[Melchizedek]

This sounds like something I've heard recently.... a mimic is not the same as an ability seer, both could be village..... Now who was it who said that?

IDK what you're alluding to, but thats a very valid point. If the mimic is a villager, it allows village to double up on PR's.

I've said this multiple times before. Using PR's to wolf hunt is a ****ty way to wolf hunt. Fullstop. Just because it works one time/in one game, does not mean it translates across the board.

Look how the ability is used. That'll net you wolves more consistently.

 

[SkiOtter]

IDK what you're alluding to, but thats a very valid point. If the mimic is a villager, it allows village to double up on PR's.

Jfc please start reading. Jil was the mimic and was a wolf. You’re welcome for that btw.

 

[Melchizedek]

Jfc please start reading. Jil was the mimic and was a wolf. You’re welcome for that btw.

Take your own advice

Just because it works one time/in one game, does not mean it translates across the board.

Screw if I'm a villager/wolf this is advice I will stand by and defend to the death any day of the week.

 

[SkiOtter]

Take your own advice

Excuse you I have been reading this whole game. The 30 minutes after lynch close I haven’t been. You’ve been too distracted to even remember that jil was killed and was a wolf mimic.

 

[genny]

IDK what you're alluding to, but thats a very valid point. If the mimic is a villager, it allows village to double up on PR's.

I've said this multiple times before. Using PR's to wolf hunt is a ****ty way to wolf hunt. Fullstop. Just because it works one time/in one game, does not mean it translates across the board.

Look how the ability is used. That'll net you wolves more consistently.

Now I feel like you're just trolling me. Because if you're village, then this level of condescension is insufferable.

You blocked a wolf once, made sure you could confirm on thread that you had used your ability to block a wolf, and you blocked one of the few people I considered a confirmed villager last night. I think you've used your ability in a very wolfy way. So that's in addition to the whole passive delay block vs. blocking / "how many blockers does a village need" debate.

Don't act like I didn't think this through just because I forgot to buy whip cream and raspberries at the store.

 

[SkiOtter]

Contingency lynch cheez

 

[SportPonies]

Pretty sure all night results are in, so you have like 15 minutes to make any changes, fronds.

 

[Melchizedek]

Turning "lets tunnel Mel" time into productivity time:

MJ's lynch avoid means these things to me:
Dina - village. If she was wolf, I was up for lynch when she started replying to thread. Could have easily voted me and just let me get lynched. Didn't need to swing lynch to a wolf with a lynch avoidance.

Mutts - If wolf, would have known about MJ's lynch avoidance, and defending the village blocker and voting to secure a lynch against a lynch avoiding wolf could have been a ploy to reap village cred.

Weim - I know genny says its not likely Weim is a wolf, but staying off both mine and MJ's lynch smells like her not wanting to catch flak for if/when I flipped, and also not wanting to use up a lynch avoidance on a pack mate.

these are the people I'm waking up tomorrow and looking at. Or if the wolves have the decency to put me out of my misery so my blood pressure doesn't keep spiking, take it as a list of people to look into.

that being said. In the immortal words of the great MJ

If it does doesn't die once...

Contingency Lynch MJ

 

[SnowshoeDog143]

I think we have assumed this whole time it was a blocker but no one is getting blocked

What. I can't believe no one mentioned this yet. Its probably the protector then.

Take your own advice



Screw if I'm a villager/wolf this is advice I will stand by and defend to the death any day of the week.

Like its good advice and its been proven wrong many times to find a wolf based on ability. But the fact the villagers had a ability seer and not an affiliation seer, leads me to think that this game abilities do matter...

contingency lynch mel

And with this thought.. lynch avoidance wolfy or not? Do we think there were 5 original wolves?

 

[Caiter92]

a passive delayed blocker is not the same as a blocker. There is no active utility for blocking kills, the two are not opposite.
Thats not me defending my role, thats just me talking about good game design from a mod's POV. I'd be making this same point regardless of being the blocker or not.

I fully realize it's not the same. BUT it makes way more sense to me to have a village delayed blocker and a wolf blocker than two village blockers and no wolf blocker.

Also you tried real hard to push cubs had to be a wolf and it couldn't be that there was a conversion. I don't think you're sketch just cause of what cray said, but it makes you even more suspect to me if crays info is true and the other presence isn't a block like has been assumed.

 

[Caiter92]

What. I can't believe no one mentioned this yet. Its probably the protector then.



Like its good advice and its been proven wrong many times to find a wolf based on ability. But the fact the villagers had a ability seer and not an affiliation seer, leads me to think that this game abilities do matter...

contingency lynch mel

And with this thought.. lynch avoidance wolfy or not? Do we think there were 5 original wolves?

Personally I think there is a strong possibility this game will have 6 wolves total with a 29 person roster, especially with two rezzes to help balance things. So 5 originals + a convert seems completely possible to me.

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

Contingency lynch MJ

 

[SnowshoeDog143]

Personally I think there is a strong possibility this game will have 6 wolves total with a 29 person roster, especially with two rezzes to help balance things. So 5 originals + a convert seems completely possible to me.

Welp I think there's a higher chance mel is wolf over mj, so lynch mel today and mj the next day I guess. And then on to convert hunting.

 

[Melchizedek]

You blocked a wolf once, made sure you could confirm on thread that you had used your ability to block a wolf, and you blocked one of the few people I considered a confirmed villager last night. I think you've used your ability in a very wolfy way. .

Okay fine, completely toss a valid data point out the window

Sure Cubs was apparently a confirmed villager. TO YOU. I don't have the info you have. I'm not going to sit down and shut up and just listen to your lead, thats not how I operate. I get why you can't spit out whatever you've been chewing on, but at the same time, don't analyze people as if they have all the information you have.

Comment on any of my other block choices, go ahead. How are you going to tunnel them?

 

[SkiOtter]

What. I can't believe no one mentioned this yet. Its probably the protector then.

I don’t believe it is. I’ve gotten other results that sound more like they could be protection.

 

[SkiOtter]

Personally I think there is a strong possibility this game will have 6 wolves total with a 29 person roster, especially with two rezzes to help balance things. So 5 originals + a convert seems completely possible to me.

I’m glad SOMEONE agrees with me....
I was thinking 5+1 or even 4+2

 

[SportPonies]

Night 8

No one has died

​

The Roster:
1. @CoffeeQuestionMark
2. @muttmanager
3. @SnowshoeDog143
10. @Melchizedek
11. @Dinashadow
12. @Crayola227
15. @cubsrule4e
16. @genny
17. @Caiter92
18. @MSUcvmHOPE
19. @Mad Jack
27. @WeimMama
23. @killerleaf
8. @SkiOtter
—-
Deep in our imaginations:
(30.) @StayingPositive2017

The Renderer:
13. @Barkley13 - Sleipnir - 2x Vig
21. @Miranda Senft - Barn Cat - PMer
4. @dolphin106258 - Spirit - Redirector
29. @ziggyandjazzy - Horace Horsecollar
25. @sheltermed - A Horse With No Name - Anon Messenger
22. @Gwenevre - Secretariat - Tinkerer
9. @Animal Midwife - Mine That Bird - 3x kill, vote controller
7. @WildZoo - The Old Gray Mare
6. @SARdoghandler - Bullseye - Ability seer
24. @capri1722 - Bucephalus - Strongarm wolf
20. @Stagg737 - Bojack Horseman - Post restrictor
5. @Skimble - Shadowfax - Mimic wolf
28. @Karabiner13 - Blue Hors Matine - Passive delay block
14. @Lupin21 - Mr. Ed - Info giver
26. @bryndiana.jones - Alborozo - Wolf xtra kill/protect
F. @PippyPony - ModGod

It is now Day 9.​

 

[Caiter92]

Such an informative write up

 

[genny]

Okay fine, completely toss a valid data point out the window

Sure Cubs was apparently a confirmed villager. TO YOU. I don't have the info you have. I'm not going to sit down and shut up and just listen to your lead, thats not how I operate. I get why you can't spit out whatever you've been chewing on, but at the same time, don't analyze people as if they have all the information you have.

Comment on any of my other block choices, go ahead. How are you going to tunnel them?

Dead is @Lupin21 - Mr. Ed - Info Giver
who could use her power of speech to whisper a bit of game info into someone's ear each night

So who do you think Lupin was whispering all of that info to? And that's the person you picked to block?

 

[Animal Midwife]

***********
That F next to Pippy's name on the roster makes me so happy every time I see it.
***********

 

[Caiter92]

Okay fine, completely toss a valid data point out the window

Sure Cubs was apparently a confirmed villager. TO YOU. I don't have the info you have. I'm not going to sit down and shut up and just listen to your lead, thats not how I operate. I get why you can't spit out whatever you've been chewing on, but at the same time, don't analyze people as if they have all the information you have.

Comment on any of my other block choices, go ahead. How are you going to tunnel them?

Pot, meet kettle. Like you haven't tunneled at all

Who did you block last night?

 

[muttmanager]

I didn't vote for anyone I thought was village and wasn't a wolf, that's pretty rad. The tie didn't stick, but it did show who was gonna move off who they were voting for. So it was on purpose to gain possibly useful info. Pretty rad too.

I can think of a reason no one else has claimed blocker, and indeed, not really sure there is a blocker. Someone standing around another player isn't always blocking.

Also, I don't think you should be judging what a night result means for affiliation without checking with someone else. Have you?

If you think Mel can't do a good job faking anything when he wolfs, not sure you've seen enough.

You made it an either/or. I made a choice. Others have discussed the small and formidable, you may have missed it. I’m sure he can, though I can only make comparisons based on my experiences.

That's what cray is saying if I'm reading it right. If we only have one blocker left, it would make most sense they'd be wolf. We already had a delayed village blocker. Would village really have two blockers and wolves have none?

I forgot Karas role was a blocker. Were you always comparing his role claim to Kara as the 2nd village blocker?

 

[SportPonies]

***********
That F next to Pippy's name on the roster makes me so happy every time I see it.
***********

Very intentional hahaha

 

[Melchizedek]

Blocked Weim last night
Had something big stand over me.
Cray's not lying, my block went through, as far as I'm told.

So which is it? Did I block the kill? Oh I know! There was ANOTHER conversion!

ETA: I've had enough I'm going to bed. Good night all.

 

[Caiter92]

I forgot Karas role was a blocker. Were you always comparing his role claim to Kara as the 2nd village blocker?

I was comparing his role to Kara based on cray's info.

 

[Crayola227]

So you don't think there are two blockers left? Why didn't you say this earlier? If you think there's only one blocker left, then Mel would be the wolf blocker.

Note that I came in awfully late to the discussion, and expressed a lot of confusion about the mechanics chat. Also that yesterday I was late to the discussion about Mel being a blocker. I have zero history of following night result claims and their implications for the most part.

I did not come in with anything to say about night results until genny said that someone wasn't reporting their night action, upon which I doublechecked my results.

Most days when I go to my PM and see a night notification, I don't mention it and I don't think much about it because like I said, I find most night notifications and abilities to be pretty vague and NAI. For that reason and my Alzheimer's, I tend to forget them about 5 minutes after I see them.

In the case someone is building a list of claimed results and it makes sense, and I'm reminded, then I will go and look and put it out there. Which is what I did when I saw genny ask.

 

[SnowshoeDog143]

Blocked Weim last night
Had something big stand over me.
Cray's not lying, my block went through, as far as I'm told.

So which is it? Did I block the kill? Oh I know! There was ANOTHER conversion!

ETA: I've had enough I'm going to bed. Good night all.

*Or you're a wolf and you didn't kill anyone on purpose for this reason.

Don't really think you blocked wolf kills 2 days in a row even if you are village.

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

*Or you're a wolf and you didn't kill anyone on purpose for this reason.

Don't really think you blocked wolf kills 2 days in a row even if you are village.

I was about to post this same thought. I think if there was a kill attempt we would've gotten a write up.

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

Unlynch MJ
Lynch Mel

 

[Animal Midwife]

**********************
Day 9 Lynch Tally

MJ (2) - genny, Cheezit
Cheezit (3) - Ski, Snowy, Coffee?

5/14
lynch close in ~21.5 hours
**********************

 

[Caiter92]

*Or you're a wolf and you didn't kill anyone on purpose for this reason.

Don't really think you blocked wolf kills 2 days in a row even if you are village.

Glad I'm not the only one thinking this could just be a play to trick people.

***lynch Mel***

 

[Crayola227]

a passive delayed blocker is not the same as a blocker. There is no active utility for blocking kills, the two are not opposite.
Thats not me defending my role, thats just me talking about good game design from a mod's POV. I'd be making this same point regardless of being the blocker or not.

was the passive delayed blocker like she designated a target, and then it happened later, or was it based on whoever used their ability then found themselves delay blocked? don't recall

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

was the passive delayed blocker like she designated a target, and then it happened later, or was it based on whoever used their ability then found themselves delay blocked? don't recall

the latter

 

[Caiter92]

was the passive delayed blocker like she designated a target, and then it happened later, or was it based on whoever used their ability then found themselves delay blocked? don't recall

Whoever acted on her were blocked the next night.

 

[Crayola227]

You made it an either/or. I made a choice. Others have discussed the small and formidable, you may have missed it. I’m sure he can, though I can only make comparisons based on my experiences.



I forgot Karas role was a blocker. Were you always comparing his role claim to Kara as the 2nd village blocker?

well, there are blockers, jailers, watchers, trackers, and possibly more roles I could think of that all might have a notification like that.

Did we already have a protector? Because that would fit too, and not be OP in a game with so many kill abilities.

 

[SkiOtter]

Did we already have a protector?

I don’t THINK it’s the protector based on my own past night results, but could be wrong *shrug*

 

[Crayola227]

Whoever acted on her were blocked the next night.

not to support cheezit, in a game with so much killing possible, not sure you wouldn't see both a village delay blocker and some other village role that may do something similar for actions or have a similar notification. Especially in a game with a strongarm, a ninja, and a EON kill wolf.

granted I am not following this closely enough to say what is going on, but I will say I am not sure where we are coming from in our conclusions about the nature of this ability, I can understand that we are trying to make sense of he said/she said

I will say, that if we are making assumptions about what is possible and what that means for affiliation, that we are doing this wrong. That is what burns village so many freaking times.

Mechanics are fine, but where we get in trouble is when we make certain conclusions. Coffee the innocent child could have been converted. When I was mason with BJ, I was able to be converted. It was the assumption about how that ability worked that led to a village loss.

Most abilities can be either affiliation - be it watcher, tracker, protector, blocker, jailer, delayed blocker, rezzer, lynch avoidance, ability seer, on and on. Order of operations and lots of other factors can make it confusing what goes through and what doesn't.

Notifications are another place where you can see a lot of confusing variation, as far as what gets notified, what doesn't, and what it reads as.

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

not to support cheezit, in a game with so much killing possible, not sure you wouldn't see both a village delay blocker and some other village role that may do something similar for actions or have a similar notification. Especially in a game with a strongarm, a ninja, and a EON kill wolf.

granted I am not following this closely enough to say what is going on, but I will say I am not sure where we are coming from in our conclusions about the nature of this ability, I can understand that we are trying to make sense of he said/she said

I will say, that if we are making assumptions about what is possible and what that means for affiliation, that we are doing this wrong. That is what burns village so many freaking times.

Mechanics are fine, but where we get in trouble is when we make certain conclusions. Coffee the innocent child could have been converted. When I was mason with BJ, I was able to be converted. It was the assumption about how that ability worked that led to a village loss.

Most abilities can be either affiliation - be it watcher, tracker, protector, blocker, jailer, delayed blocker, rezzer, lynch avoidance, ability seer, on and on. Order of operations and lots of other factors can make it confusing what goes through and what doesn't.

Notifications are another place where you can see a lot of confusing variation, as far as what gets notified, what doesn't, and what it reads as.

I don't think there is a ninja. BJ had EON protection.