Johns Hopkins v. NYU with Full COA Scholarship

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eleveneleven

eleveneleven

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Hello!

So here's the deal. I'm absolutely thrilled and very grateful to have the options that I do. It's all still very surreal having come into this whole thing not expecting much. I understand that I'm in a very fortunate position, and can't thank SDN enough for helping me along the way.

That said, after receiving news of a full cost of attendance offer from NYU yesterday I am struggling to make a decision, and really would like any advice on the matter. I was pretty set on going and looking forward to going to Hopkins, but now am reconsidering.

About Me: Very interested in healthcare for the underserved, public and global health, community health, health systems/policy research, health disparities, interdisciplinary (antrhopology/sociology/economics) research on healthcare, etc. Hope to go into academics.

Here are some pros/cons:

Hopkins: Ideal. Costs aside, this is where I would like to be.

Pros:
  • Outstanding research and opportunity to work with faculty doing exactly the type of work I'm interested in.
  • Clinical training at #1 hospital.
  • Huge connections in global health with international name recognition.
  • Great vibe from current and prospective students during second-look weekend.
  • Bloomberg School of Public Health: Interested in getting an MPH. Get essentially guaranteed admission with likely possibility of near to full tuition funding for MPH.
  • Beautiful new facilities.
  • Great curriculum.
  • Enjoyed Baltimore. Great location for what I'm interested in and within striking distance of other great cities.
Cons:
  • More expensive.
  • Granted $37,000 in need-based aid, leaving me with ~$150,000 in debt after 4 years. Generous need-based aid leaves a fairly manageable debt load, though. Potential MPH tuition funding would also help with debt if I do go that route.
  • Perhaps I'm overestimating the value of opportunities?

NYU: Wow! Full cost of attendance scholarship. Great school in a great city with a great hospital.

Pros:
  • Full cost of attendance scholarship. Lots of benefits of financial freedom after medical school. I am interested in primary care specialties, and would not have debt hanging over me and possibly influencing my specialty choice. Flexibility to pursue and potentially explore non-traditional (and less lucrative) paths (easier to do international work/community health, etc.) in medicine.
  • New York City! Confident I would love living in New York. Definitely prefer a big-city environment. And the chance to do so without much financial constraints is awesome.
  • Bellevue Hospital. Training at Bellevue would be phenomenal. Largely underserved, very diverse population.
  • Great curriculum with protected research time.
Cons:
  • Possibly less availability of mentors/faculty working in areas I'm interested in.
  • Got a weird vibe from students on interview day. Afraid I wouldn't fit with student culture here.
  • Slight dip in "prestige" compared to Hopkins, though not sure how much that's even worth considering.
  • Would possibly incur more MPH debt if I do go that route.

Finally, I also have University of Michigan on the table with a generous scholarship and need-based grant (~48k given per year total. ~90k more expensive than NYU), but had more or less ruled that out due primarily to little interest in living in Ann Arbor. Should I give this one more thought?

Thank you so much for reading through all of that and any and all advice is welcome!
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cyberchicken001 said:
Insert some variation of "you cannot go wrong!" or "go with your heart!" here.
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since we are changing things up
upload_2014-5-2_10-35-19.jpeg
 
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I would say NYU. Especially if you're interested in primary care. Not having that 150k hanging over you is a huge deal - plus if you got living expenses paid for as well with NYU you would actually be pocketing some money! It seems like the name/ranking of Hopkins is something you're having a hard time passing over, but they're both top 20s so I wouldn't worry too much - although if you're interested in global health it might make some kind of a difference. Then again I'm just biased because I'm coming from the NYU thread 😉
 
Go to NYU, take a year off and do your MPH at Hopkins. You'll get connections at both places and save a ton of money.

Also even if you feel like you might not fit in the student culture at NYU a) it's hard to tell that from interview day and b) you're in NYC.
 
eleveneleven said:
Hello!

So here's the deal. I'm absolutely thrilled and very grateful to have the options that I do. It's all still very surreal having come into this whole thing not expecting much. I understand that I'm in a very fortunate position, and can't thank SDN enough for helping me along the way.

That said, after receiving news of a full cost of attendance offer from NYU yesterday I am struggling to make a decision, and really would like any advice on the matter. I was pretty set on going and looking forward to going to Hopkins, but now am reconsidering.

About Me: Very interested in healthcare for the underserved, public and global health, community health, health systems/policy research, health disparities, interdisciplinary (antrhopology/sociology/economics) research on healthcare, etc. Hope to go into academics.

Here are some pros/cons:

Hopkins: Ideal. Costs aside, this is where I would like to be.

Pros:
  • Outstanding research and opportunity to work with faculty doing exactly the type of work I'm interested in.
  • Clinical training at #1 hospital.
  • Huge connections in global health with international name recognition.
  • Great vibe from current and prospective students during second-look weekend.
  • Bloomberg School of Public Health: Interested in getting an MPH. Get essentially guaranteed admission with likely possibility of near to full tuition funding for MPH.
  • Beautiful new facilities.
  • Great curriculum.
  • Enjoyed Baltimore. Great location for what I'm interested in and within striking distance of other great cities.
Cons:
  • More expensive.
  • Granted $37,000 in need-based aid, leaving me with ~$150,000 in debt after 4 years. Generous need-based aid leaves a fairly manageable debt load, though. Potential MPH tuition funding would also help with debt if I do go that route.
  • Perhaps I'm overestimating the value of opportunities?

NYU: Wow! Full cost of attendance scholarship. Great school in a great city with a great hospital.

Pros:
  • Full cost of attendance scholarship. Lots of benefits of financial freedom after medical school. I am interested in primary care specialties, and would not have debt hanging over me and possibly influencing my specialty choice. Flexibility to pursue and potentially explore non-traditional (and less lucrative) paths (easier to do international work/community health, etc.) in medicine.
  • New York City! Confident I would love living in New York. Definitely prefer a big-city environment. And the chance to do so without much financial constraints is awesome.
  • Bellevue Hospital. Training at Bellevue would be phenomenal. Largely underserved, very diverse population.
  • Great curriculum with protected research time.
Cons:
  • Possibly less availability of mentors/faculty working in areas I'm interested in.
  • Got a weird vibe from students on interview day. Afraid I wouldn't fit with student culture here.
  • Slight dip in "prestige" compared to Hopkins, though not sure how much that's even worth considering.
  • Would possibly incur more MPH debt if I do go that route.

Finally, I also have University of Michigan on the table with a generous scholarship and need-based grant (~48k given per year total. ~90k more expensive than NYU), but had more or less ruled that out due primarily to little interest in living in Ann Arbor. Should I give this one more thought?

Thank you so much for reading through all of that and any and all advice is welcome!
Click to expand...

Ann Arbor native here, and Ann Arbor isn't NYC, Boston, SF, LA, and is 4 hours away from Chicago. But, cheap to live here, so I can afford to travel the world. My Dad is an academic, and the academic salaries are not as lucrative as for-profit physician practices. If you are intending to seek academic life, my advice would be to go where it is cheapest. Best wishes
 
Hopkins. Sounds like your ideal program. While $150 K pre-compounded is a lot, it's not unreasonable for med school frankly... primary care docs can handle it.

If it were me, I'd take the full ride, esp if I were pursuing global health/under served/primary care/academics.
 
Str8Baller said:
You don't think people are underestimating the potential to go to one of the best medical schools in the world?
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I think they are grossly overestimating the difference between going to one top-20 school vs another. If you want to drown in debt, that's fine, but crazy imo.
 
^ $150K is not "drowning in debt." I know it seems that way as a college senior making barista coin at Starbucks. Anyway, OP has posted legitimate reasons for preferring JHU beyond prestige.
 
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Also, have you run the cost difference through https://services.aamc.org/30/first/home/calculatorinput? I was surprised at how much I would have to pay back for a loan much smaller than 150k. The monthly payments especially were very revealing (make sure you manually subtract out the income tax). I'd suggest being a bit conservative when running the numbers, use the low end of residency/fellowship stipends, the low end of your expected salary, and the high end of the the number of years you spend in residency/fellowship. Play around with the different payback periods and plans to get a better sense of how a 150k loan will affect you later on. A 150k loan is really going to end up being a lot closer to 300K after payback, so you should think of it as 300k, not 150k. If you're still okay with those numbers, then I'd suggest choosing Hopkins. 300K is going to be manageable, no doubt, with your future earnings, but you have to think about if it's worth it to you.
 
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solitarius said:
^ $150K is not "drowning in debt." I know it seems that way as a college senior making barista coin at Starbucks. Anyway, OP has posted legitimate reasons for preferring JHU beyond prestige.
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I was a college senior almost 10 years ago.
 
Bro, you got accepted to Johns Hopkins for medical school, basically everyone's dream that has ever even thought about opening this website.

Go to Johns Hopkins for medical school.
 
Congratulations! I am looking at that much debt if I choose my school A so I understand your concern. It's nice to have the financial freedom to choose your career as you see fit. If that might mean working half-time and spending the other half of the time in global health endeavors or community service projects, it's nice to have half the debt. 🙂

For what it's worth, I think you'll be able to afford the $150K loan just fine. I think I can. (Hell, you're going to be paying bills until you die anyway. Just think of it as your medical school mortgage). But what I don't think one can easily stomach is the idea of turning down your top choice. Your career will most certainly be bright wherever you go but every so often, you might think back and wonder "what if"...And that's not the kind of debt one can as easily pay off.
 
As soon as I saw you are interested in academics and global health, I just scrolled down all the way. I would still go to Hopkins. I would rather be happy with relevant opportunities (like global health that you are excited about) a medical school offers than being happy with a full ride and trying to convince yourself for 4 years you made the right choice without asking "What if?"

The connections, mentors, and networking will take you a long way. I am saying this if you are one of those active go-getters who are ambitious and willing to go above and beyond. Otherwise, go to NYU and look into MPH at Hopkins.
 
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QuinnTheEskimo said:
Please. Do you really think that there is such a huge difference between a Hopkins degree and an NYU degree? If so, you are in for a shock.
Click to expand...

I don't know if its the degree itself as much as it is the people you will meet and the connections you will make. If you are a mover and shaker and a networker then going to a place like Hopkins will allow you to knock on doors that aren't available at other schools (even top 20s). If you are simply going to go to class, join some interest groups, and plan to beat the heck out of STEP1 and your clerkships then you could do that at either school just as well.

OP, if you plan to either make moves in academia, policy, or global health then I think it would serve you best to be at a school where you will be able to make the most connections and branch out the furthest beyond the standard medical school curriculum. NYU is absolutely no slouch, but JHU is going to have some of the top people in the world right down the hall from you. If you are interested in staying on the clinical side of things then I think you could match into a great residency coming out of either school and that lack of debt at NYU will definitely allow you to do whatever specialty you'd like.

To me I guess it comes down to what you want out of your career. I can see JHU opening far more doors in the realms of healthcare that you are interested in, especially academics.
 
My vote is for Hopkins. It seems to be the better fit and what you would enjoy more. The extra 150k would be worth it IMO.
 
anon9301 said:
Or unlimited opportunities in medicine.
Click to expand...

yeah those nyu kids can't even match derm

jesus seriously op? I know Johns Hopkins is great and all but a full cost of attendance scholarship? As in no debt whatsoever?
It sounds like you want to go to Johns Hopkins but if you don't owe anyone money, no one owns you.
 
My unqualified opinion is: go to Hopkins. You clearly have your heart set on it (aka you're not just interested in the name) and $150k is still a good deal (not a full ride, obviously, but still good). Like someone else mentioned, if you go there, do make sure to take advantage of all the unique opportunities/connections. Whatever you decide, good luck.

Edit: oh, and congrats on being such an epic beast :bow:
 
Why dont you try to bargain and let JHU know that NYU gave you a massive scholarship and see if they can give you any more money? Tell them your compelling reasons for wanting to go there over NYU but the money is just dragging you that direction. Obviously write it better than that explanation but you get my drift
 
Definitely try to bargain with your credentials! I believe JHU is the right choice for you as well, and the free MPH is a very good deal. You'll still be left with less debt than most people at one of the best schools in the nation for your interests.
 
If you're prepared to live a somewhat middle class lifestyle as a doctor, Hopkins all the way. At some point you have to realize going to an epic med school is not just a means to an end. It is an end in itself.
 
I'd say it sounds like you wanna go to Hopkins, so go for it.

You can pay of loans, but not regret.

On a side note, I was not super impressed by NYU so I might be biased.
 
QuinnTheEskimo said:
Please. Do you really think that there is such a huge difference between a Hopkins degree and an NYU degree? If so, you are in for a shock.
Click to expand...

Yes, there is a significant difference.

Hopkins is one of the best med schools in the world, has the most research funding of any med school, has the best public health school, has top residencies in nearly every specialty, and has the best hospital in the world. You get taught by faculty who are passionate and inspirational as well as leaders in the field of medicine including Nobel laureates, Rhodes scholars, and MacArthur fellows.

NYU is a great school but it has none of those things.

Depending on the OP's future career plans and aspirations, 150K might be well worth the extra opportunities.

Obviously i'm biased though.
 
Hi I'm in a very similar position 🙂 Feel free to PM me! (don't want to discuss too much here)
 
alpinism said:
Yes, there is a significant difference.

Hopkins is one of the best med schools in the world, has the most research funding of any med school, has the best public health school, has top residencies in nearly every specialty, and has the best hospital in the world. You get taught by faculty who are passionate and inspirational as well as leaders in the field of medicine including Nobel laureates, Rhodes scholars, and MacArthur fellows.

NYU is a great school but it has none of those things.

Depending on the OP's future career plans and aspirations, 150K might be well worth the extra opportunities.

Obviously i'm biased though.
Click to expand...
How many free meals are they giving you for writing that? 😉
 
Reckoner said:
How many free meals are they giving you for writing that? 😉
Click to expand...

I don't understand why there is such a "all med schools are the same" culture in SDN. They are not, not even when comparing Top 20 v. Top 5.

Sure, if you just want to be a good physician, it probably will not make a difference, but if you want to be a leader in your field, I'm betting it will. The opportunities are just not the same, and the people you meet will not be of the same caliber. Lets face it, the average capacity of medical students is not the same everywhere (just as in UG). Sure there are exceptions, but I'm betting the people you will meet at Hopkins will provide you with a more challenging environment. For me, that is key, I feel you can't put a price on the quantity of amazing people you meet.
 
So full disclosure, I didn't apply to either school (so I'm not really biased in that way towards one school or another), but did consider the money issue heavily in my own decision-making process. With that being said I'd take NYU. You're not comparing Hopkins to a no name school. Just as is the case with Hopkins, there are more people for you to connect with at NYU (or in NYC) than you could possibly incorporate into your network, there are more possibilities for research, for public health work, and more. Since you can't possibly take advantage of every opportunity that will be available, it's all about thresholds, and both these schools have far surpassed the threshold where opportunities are concerned.

I'm fine spending money for a superior product, but personally, I don't see what 150k is buying (because I don't think you're getting more utilizable opportunities, all that much better classmates, a better location, etc with Hopkins) other than helping you not to feel like you turned down a good med school - to me, that's definitely not worth the money. Everybody complains about the debt issue because, unlike the med school you choose when comparing two top institutions (which mostly only those of us at this stage of life seem to really worry about too much), your quality of life, level of stress, and potentially professional opportunities will be affected when you're paying back loans (who knows what opportunities, for personal pleasure, for your family, or professionally, you'll be forced to pass on due to the loans?) As such, I'd take NYU.

Just my two cents. Don't obsess over the counterfactual after you make your decision and I'm sure that regardless of what you pick it'll feel like the right decision (which is all that really matters in the end anyway). Good luck and congrats!
 
Gotmedical said:
I don't understand why there is such a "all med schools are the same" culture in SDN. They are not, not even when comparing Top 20 v. Top 5.

Sure, if you just want to be a good physician, it probably will not make a difference, but if you want to be a leader in your field, I'm betting it will. The opportunities are just not the same, and the people you meet will not be of the same caliber. Lets face it, the average capacity of medical students is not the same everywhere (just as in UG). Sure there are exceptions, but I'm betting the people you will meet at Hopkins will provide you with a more challenging environment. For me, that is key, I feel you can't put a price on the quantity of amazing people you meet.
Click to expand...

As long as we're going off of anecdotes/gut feelings, here's my $.02: I know a handful of academic docs who are VERY high up in their respective fields. With one exception, they all went to "mid" or "low" tier US allopathic schools. I also know a doc who failed miserably at reaching academic greatness, mainly due to poor interpersonal skills -- and he came out of a top 3 medical school.
 
Gotmedical said:
I don't understand why there is such a "all med schools are the same" culture in SDN. They are not, not even when comparing Top 20 v. Top 5.

Sure, if you just want to be a good physician, it probably will not make a difference, but if you want to be a leader in your field, I'm betting it will. The opportunities are just not the same, and the people you meet will not be of the same caliber. Lets face it, the average capacity of medical students is not the same everywhere (just as in UG). Sure there are exceptions, but I'm betting the people you will meet at Hopkins will provide you with a more challenging environment. For me, that is key, I feel you can't put a price on the quantity of amazing people you meet.
Click to expand...
The winky face at the end of my 11 word post indicates I'm joking. No need to read more into it.
 
QuinnTheEskimo said:
As long as we're going off of anecdotes/gut feelings, here's my $.02: I know a handful of academic docs who are VERY high up in their respective fields. With one exception, they all went to "mid" or "low" tier US allopathic schools. I also know a doc who failed miserably at reaching academic greatness, mainly due to poor interpersonal skills -- and he came out of a top 3 medical school.
Click to expand...

Also this crazy ass chick got into Hopkins so...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/26/dumped-by-text_n_3996576.html
 
Fabio Lanzoni said:
Also this crazy ass chick got into Hopkins so...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/26/dumped-by-text_n_3996576.html
Click to expand...

Haha. The first word that comes to my mind isn't that she's crazy, it's that she's vindictive. Okay, vindictively crazy. Nah, you're right, she's crazy.

But honestly, that guy is kind of an arrogant ass. "Sorry to be dumping you before your birthday but I'm sure you'll be fine." Thanks for your encouragement, those 2 dates were life altering and I truly couldn't imagine how I'd go on.
 
QuinnTheEskimo said:
As long as we're going off of anecdotes/gut feelings, here's my $.02: I know a handful of academic docs who are VERY high up in their respective fields. With one exception, they all went to "mid" or "low" tier US allopathic schools. I also know a doc who failed miserably at reaching academic greatness, mainly due to poor interpersonal skills -- and he came out of a top 3 medical school.
Click to expand...

OP you can't choose wrong, but I just want to say that I've experienced the exact same thing as Quinn.
 
eleveneleven said:
Hello!

So here's the deal. I'm absolutely thrilled and very grateful to have the options that I do. It's all still very surreal having come into this whole thing not expecting much. I understand that I'm in a very fortunate position, and can't thank SDN enough for helping me along the way.

That said, after receiving news of a full cost of attendance offer from NYU yesterday I am struggling to make a decision, and really would like any advice on the matter. I was pretty set on going and looking forward to going to Hopkins, but now am reconsidering.

About Me: Very interested in healthcare for the underserved, public and global health, community health, health systems/policy research, health disparities, interdisciplinary (antrhopology/sociology/economics) research on healthcare, etc. Hope to go into academics.

Here are some pros/cons:

Hopkins: Ideal. Costs aside, this is where I would like to be.

Pros:
  • Outstanding research and opportunity to work with faculty doing exactly the type of work I'm interested in.
  • Clinical training at #1 hospital.
  • Huge connections in global health with international name recognition.
  • Great vibe from current and prospective students during second-look weekend.
  • Bloomberg School of Public Health: Interested in getting an MPH. Get essentially guaranteed admission with likely possibility of near to full tuition funding for MPH.
  • Beautiful new facilities.
  • Great curriculum.
  • Enjoyed Baltimore. Great location for what I'm interested in and within striking distance of other great cities.
Cons:
  • More expensive.
  • Granted $37,000 in need-based aid, leaving me with ~$150,000 in debt after 4 years. Generous need-based aid leaves a fairly manageable debt load, though. Potential MPH tuition funding would also help with debt if I do go that route.
  • Perhaps I'm overestimating the value of opportunities?

NYU: Wow! Full cost of attendance scholarship. Great school in a great city with a great hospital.

Pros:
  • Full cost of attendance scholarship. Lots of benefits of financial freedom after medical school. I am interested in primary care specialties, and would not have debt hanging over me and possibly influencing my specialty choice. Flexibility to pursue and potentially explore non-traditional (and less lucrative) paths (easier to do international work/community health, etc.) in medicine.
  • New York City! Confident I would love living in New York. Definitely prefer a big-city environment. And the chance to do so without much financial constraints is awesome.
  • Bellevue Hospital. Training at Bellevue would be phenomenal. Largely underserved, very diverse population.
  • Great curriculum with protected research time.
Cons:
  • Possibly less availability of mentors/faculty working in areas I'm interested in.
  • Got a weird vibe from students on interview day. Afraid I wouldn't fit with student culture here.
  • Slight dip in "prestige" compared to Hopkins, though not sure how much that's even worth considering.
  • Would possibly incur more MPH debt if I do go that route.

Finally, I also have University of Michigan on the table with a generous scholarship and need-based grant (~48k given per year total. ~90k more expensive than NYU), but had more or less ruled that out due primarily to little interest in living in Ann Arbor. Should I give this one more thought?

Thank you so much for reading through all of that and any and all advice is welcome!
Click to expand...
Based on your goals of primary care - "About Me: Very interested in healthcare for the underserved, public and global health, community health, health systems/policy research, health disparities, interdisciplinary (antrhopology/sociology/economics) research on healthcare, etc. Hope to go into academics." ----- NYU.
 
Fabio Lanzoni said:
Also this crazy ass chick got into Hopkins so...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/26/dumped-by-text_n_3996576.html
Click to expand...
I like her description of her book: http://www.linkedin.com/in/quinwoodwardpu
  • Type A+
    • Kindle, Amazon, Barnes & Noble
    • August 24, 2011
    When Quin Woodward Pu—a straight-A Asian-American extrovert from Georgia with a penchant for vodka, designer shoes, and older men—receives her acceptance letter from Johns Hopkins Medical School, she is forced to make a decision between giving up her hard-partying, man-eating ways and continuing her fabulous VIP lifestyle and pursuing a more glitzy and glamorous career. Type A+ is the memoir of her transition from MCAT-teaching pre-med free clinic volunteer to directionless, yet fabulous and resourceful, freelance writer. Like many Asian-Americans, she butts heads with her first-generation Chinese father when she strays from his life plan for her to attend a top medical program. She is encouraged by her histrionic but loyal friends—from an undiagnosed alcoholic roommate, to a bohemian BFFL, to a middle-aged playboy dermatologist boyfriend —to follow her champagne-soaked dreams of becoming a journalist.
 
DermViser said:
I like her description of her book: http://www.linkedin.com/in/quinwoodwardpu
  • Type A+
    • Kindle, Amazon, Barnes & Noble
    • August 24, 2011
    When Quin Woodward Pu—a straight-A Asian-American extrovert from Georgia with a penchant for vodka, designer shoes, and older men—receives her acceptance letter from Johns Hopkins Medical School, she is forced to make a decision between giving up her hard-partying, man-eating ways and continuing her fabulous VIP lifestyle and pursuing a more glitzy and glamorous career. Type A+ is the memoir of her transition from MCAT-teaching pre-med free clinic volunteer to directionless, yet fabulous and resourceful, freelance writer. Like many Asian-Americans, she butts heads with her first-generation Chinese father when she strays from his life plan for her to attend a top medical program. She is encouraged by her histrionic but loyal friends—from an undiagnosed alcoholic roommate, to a bohemian BFFL, to a middle-aged playboy dermatologist boyfriend —to follow her champagne-soaked dreams of becoming a journalist.
Click to expand...

Haha. Not sure if you really like it or I'm thickheaded to sarcasm...
 
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