Northwestern HPME, Brown PLME or Pittsburgh Guaranteed adimission

[medicaldoc1]

Need true and humble advice, so i can make an intelligent choice. thanks!

What i concern most:
1. School has great research potential, (40% weight)
2. School has good residency match not limited to mid-west area, (30%)
3. Residency match has higher acceptance rate in specialty, i.e. not limited to primary care or family doctors, or internal medicine. (30%)

Facts found:
School GPA to maintain seat/current research rank (2009)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Northwestern 3.2/19
Brown n/a /34
Pitt 3.75/13

Here are the average mean GPA and MCAT score to get in through regular application - link http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/careers/wiki/Medical_School_Admissions_Statistics_-_US_and_Canada

Northwestern University, Feinberg SOM avg GPA 3.8 avg MCAT 37
Brown University avg GPA 3.8 avg MCAT 35
University of Pittsburgh avg GPA 3.8 avg MCAT 35

Brown - Ivy league, med school rank remain steady
Northwestern - med school rank climbing a little bit
Pitt - med rank remain steady


The following information i gathered, if not accurate, please correct me.
======================================================
Brown has no biding if apply out after 4 years of college work, you still can keep the seat. But school would not be happy, if you choose so.

Clinical experience may obtained - Pitt > Northwestern > Brown (?), Brown has no its own hospital system, but Pitt and Northwestern have.

Residency match comparison - Brown > Northwestern > Pitt (?)

Residency match region comparison - most Pitt and Northwestern's residency match confined within mid-west area. Brown has higher rate match in both east and west coast.

One caveat - Brown's residency match has a lot of internal medicine, why?, i don't know, because students don't do well in USMLE test i/ii/iii?
?

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[drizzt3117]

I would personally go to Brown. It's a great place to do ug and would put you in a good position to succeed; the fact that the program isn't binding is a nice bonus, as you can try your luck and then fall back on Alpert if things don't work out.

Your analysis of the match list just isn't accurate. If premeds don't know how to read match lists, pre-premeds certainly don't. I was commenting in another thread that Alpert's 2010 list was a little funny, lots of primary care. I think Pitt is the strongest of these programs for academic medicine, esp surgery, but they're all good schools. If you're just evaluating the home programs, though, I'd pick Pitt > Nu > brown, though.

 

[ElegantWeapon]

if you are from the northeast/want to match in the northeast and are concerned with all of the above, Brown for sure....non binding program which has a wonderful program with lots of research potential that you can mold to your liking (scholarly concentrations, etc)...I know someone in the 8 yr program and they love it...

 

[NightSwim]

Seems like you want to make this choice based on which school will help you most with your career as a doctor. However, because these schools are so similar in terms of academic prowess, it's seriously six or one and half-dozen of the other (or whatever the saying is). I highly recommend just going with the school you think you might like best. Each of them will get you a top-notch residency and provide endless research opportunities.

I didn't even know what "residency" was when I was in high school. You seem pretty knowledgable about this stuff.

 

[medicaldoc1]

I am so grateful for all your inputs. I am still have some confusion and anxiety though.

 

[JokerMD]

Residency match comparison - Brown > Northwestern > Pitt (?)

Residency match region comparison - most Pitt and Northwestern's residency match confined within mid-west area. Brown has higher rate match in both east and west coast.

One caveat - Brown's residency match has a lot of internal medicine, why?, i don't know, because students don't do well in USMLE test i/ii/iii?
?

I feel that this part is not entirely correct.

I'd go with the cheapest place and take into account that the three locations are very very different. Chicago does seem pretty cool tho.

 

[medicaldoc1]

Just visit Brown's med school 2010 match list link - http://med.brown.edu/about/match, it seems they have made some improvements on its residency match, i.e. has less ppl in primary care compare to previous years. Maybe the medical school's research is improving, it shall boost its rank. I also found its residency match has many specialties in Harvard medical school, that is Nu and Pitt lack of.

 

[drizzt3117]

Just visit Brown's med school 2010 match list link - http://med.brown.edu/about/match, it seems they have made some improvements on its residency match, i.e. has less ppl in primary care compare to previous years. Maybe the medical school's research is improving, it shall boost its rank. I also found its residency match has many specialties in Harvard medical school, that is Nu and Pitt lack of.

The latest list from Brown isn't as impressive as their past lists, as I mentioned before, over half their class is in primary care, probably out of choice. I counted about 10% elite matches, I haven't looked at Pitt's list but I would be surprised if it was that low. (edit, it looked like at least 20% from a quick glance)

just for future reference (not because they're necc the best but for educational purposes for the op) harvard's teaching hospitals are brigham
and women's, mass general, and Beth israel deaconess, and Pitt matched people into great surgical specialties there.

 

[Physicalmusic]

The following information i gathered, if not accurate, please correct me.
======================================================
Brown has no biding if apply out after 4 years of college work, you still can keep the seat. But school would not be happy, if you choose so.

In fact, Brown changed its policy this year. Starting with next year's entering class, if a PLME student decides to apply to outside schools they forfeit their seat at Warren Alpert (Brown Med). That being said, Brown (my undergrad) is a fantastic place, so who knows if you would even want to jump all the pre-med hurdles that PLME students avoid (2nd semester of organic chemistry, MCAT, etc...) in order to leave after 4 years?

 

[medicaldoc1]

The latest list from Brown isn't as impressive as their past lists, as I mentioned before, over half their class is in primary care, probably out of choice. I counted about 10% elite matches, I haven't looked at Pitt's list but I would be surprised if was that lit ow. (edit, it looked like at least 20% from a quick glance)

just for future reference (not because they're necc the best but for educational purposes for the op) harvard's teaching hospitals are brigham
and women's, mass general, and Beth israel deaconess, and Pitt matched people into great surgical specialties there.

Here is my count on Brown:
Dermatology - 3, Radiology - 5, Nurology/Nurosurgery -1, Surgery - 9, Otolaryngology - 3, Anesthesiology - 3, Neurology -1

Total # of elite specialties from above is 25.
25/94(total class) = 27%.

Same category count on Northwestern on 2009 class, total ppl - 167, elite specialties total is roughly 62.
62/167 = 37%.

 

[TaylorMDhopeful]

Here is my count on Brown:
Dermatology - 3, Radiology - 5, Nurology/Nurosurgery -1, Surgery - 9, Otolaryngology - 3, Anesthesiology - 3, Neurology -1

Total # of elite specialties from above is 25.
25/94(total class) = 27%.

Same category count on Northwestern on 2009 class, total ppl - 167, elite specialties total is roughly 62.
62/167 = 37%.

Did you take into account location? While most of these specialties are competitive, I wouldn't necessarily call them "elite". Most people decide specialties based on what they think will make them happy and what they envision themselves doing for their career not what is the hardest to get into. This will skew match lists each year based on a person's preference of specialty within a class. Residency directors and faculty members make the determination of what are top programs. Location matters in that determination.

 

[ElegantWeapon]

They will all give you whatever specialty you want...I would still go to Brown-it has all the same resources, support, and interesting academic medical opportunities while offering something more, which is the ability to be at Brown and avoid all of the aforementioned "premed" hurdles. This means if you don't want to just be a robot, it will be so easy to get involved in many other diverse studies of academics...It doesn't even look like you need a minimum GPA (not that you should slack completely) but you won't be stopped from taking "risky" courses (perhaps you wanted to take that advanced quantum class but didn't want to kill your gpa).

Brown all the way-I wish I had done better in HS and applied to this program...

Also consider the city you'd want to live in for 8 years. I think Chicago is amazing, but the only way I'd choose Northwestern over brown (and I was accepted to Northwestern for MD) is if you KNEW you wanted to do a dual degree in business or law.

good luck with your choice

 

[BBender716]

Why not go for the Wash U BA/MD I kid, I kid!

 

[medicaldoc1]

Why not go for the Wash U BA/MD I kid, I kid!

i believe they require you to maintain GPA 3.9?? if it is the case, then it is a kill and it is worthless in my opinion.

 

[drizzt3117]

Here is my count on Brown:
Dermatology - 3, Radiology - 5, Nurology/Nurosurgery -1, Surgery - 9, Otolaryngology - 3, Anesthesiology - 3, Neurology -1

Total # of elite specialties from above is 25.
25/94(total class) = 27%.

Same category count on Northwestern on 2009 class, total ppl - 167, elite specialties total is roughly 62.
62/167 = 37%.

When I said elite matches I meant the actual programs (top 5 in their respective specialty, or arguably so) not the specialties. IM @MGH is an elite match, even though it's not an "elite" specialty. Neurology has a step average about the same as the national average, so does Anesthesia. These numbers are pretty back of the envelope, I don't care enough to do research on every single match into every single program.

 

[ElegantWeapon]

i believe they require you to maintain GPA 3.9?? if it is the case, then it is a kill and it is worthless in my opinion.

I think its 3.8 + 36 MCAT if I'm not mistaken-pretty worthless IMO also since from washU you'd get into amazing schools with those stats regardless

 

[Infinitydrop]

Brown's ranking is not steady at all, they have climbed 10 ranks in the past couple of years.

Pitt as well has climbed about 10 ranks.

Northwestern if anything has been most steady.

 

[medicaldoc1]

Brown's ranking is not steady at all, they have climbed 10 ranks in the past couple of years.

Pitt as well has climbed about 10 ranks.

Northwestern if anything has been most steady.

Here is the NIH funding http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/NIH_Awards.htm, you can click on the 2009/2008/2007/2006 year. if any body has other source, please post.

 

[medicaldoc1]

Brown's ranking is not steady at all, they have climbed 10 ranks in the past couple of years.

Pitt as well has climbed about 10 ranks.

Northwestern if anything has been most steady.

Could you post the link to its med school rank by year over year in recent years, thanks!

 

[medicaldoc1]

When I said elite matches I meant the actual programs (top 5 in their respective specialty, or arguably so) not the specialties. IM @MGH is an elite match, even though it's not an "elite" specialty. Neurology has a step average about the same as the national average, so does Anesthesia. These numbers are pretty back of the envelope, I don't care enough to do research on every single match into every single program.

Could you elaborate? give some examples, i am learning. thx

 

[BubbaChuck3]

Could you elaborate? give some examples, i am learning. thx

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=689385

Read that, it should give you a better perspective on match lists.

Also as someone that has not even entered college yet. This is honestly the last thing that you should be thinking about as you enter college. So many things change along the way that you can and can't control. Who knows if you will even want to stay in the same place for 8 years (or more). Who knows if your motivation for medicine will change and you decide that your reasonings for wanting to be a doctor now do not warrant your pursuit of becoming a physician in the future. It sounds like you are motivated and smart enough. If that is the case you don't need a guaranteed MD track. You will get into plenty of schools if you handle your business.

That said I would personally go UPitt it is a decent undergraduate institution but the medical school is IMO much better than your other two options. Going to an ivy league and a better institution could help you out a little bit more if you decide you would like to play the playing field and apply to medical school in the traditional way.

 

[drizzt3117]

Could you elaborate? give some examples, i am learning. thx

Honestly it's really not helpful for you to look at the match lists in that way. My purpose in doing so was simply to show Brown's list wasn't better than Pitt's.

Suffice it to say that you won't be hurt in your ability to match by going to any of these schools, and you should go where you feel most comfortable.

 

[medicaldoc1]

thanks a lot all you guys input, i learn something today. Confusion still in my med school choice, may be after a couple of weeks later gathering more info, i will make up my decision. Anyway i am still full with enthusiasm in medicine.

 

[Infinitydrop]

There's thread on past USNEW Ranking with infomation on past rankings dating back about 10 year.Give it a search

 

[medicaldoc1]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-385075.html