Penn versus Weill Cornell -- Advice Needed

[rfk1234]

Hi all,

First off, let me say that I feel extremely fortunate to have some GREAT choices. That being said, I've whittled down my list to 2 schools -- Penn and Cornell -- and would really appreciate some help/opinions. As both of these schools gave me pretty decent financial aid, the costs will be about the same (I'm also not too worried about the cost of living being somewhat higher in NYC) so we can ignore that.

I currently live in NYC and grew up there. In terms of geography, my preference would definitely be to stay in NY. That being said, Philly is fairly close and I would be willing to move if this is really a better choice for me. In terms of my interests, I have some interest in exploring the surgical specialities but really am open to just about anything. I think the research opportunities are exceptional at both institutions (Penn is Penn and Cornell is associated with HSS, MSK and Rockefeller which obviously present tremendous opportunities). Regarding my interest in surgery, I've noticed that Cornell seems to send fewer to surgical residency positions when compared to schools with similar reputations -- I'm curious as to why you all think this is???

In terms of curriculum, both seem to be pretty similar. Cornell is switching to a 1.5 year curriculum this year, so they're similar in this regard. Both schools do a lot of small group work. I'm a little worried about being the guinea pig for Cornell's new change but it does sound like the administration has planned this very carefully. Penn's curriculum is obviously well established and battle tested. However, I don't like that it is H/P/F. I know that general opinion is that this doesn't caused increased competition among students but I have spoken to Penn students who've said it does cause increased pressure on the individual (depending on who you are but I will probably be in this camp).

Couple more pros and cons of each: I love that Penn has CHOP and the associated research and clinical opportunities that come with it. I also really like that Penn is located on a campus with other graduate schools -- this creates enormous opportunities for dual degrees and cross-disciplinary research (weakness for Cornell). Penn also has stellar global clinical/research opps. For Cornell, I really like that it is a somewhat smaller class size -- I think this might mean slightly more guidance and advice when it comes to choosing specialities and finding research mentors.

I know Penn has the edge in prestige (somewhat big if you go by US News). Weill Cornell is obviously great as well but there does seem to be somewhat of a difference in their match lists. What do you all think?

Thanks!!!

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[supermintyfresh]

Hi all,

First off, let me say that I feel extremely fortunate to have some GREAT choices. That being said, I've whittled down my list to 2 schools -- Penn and Cornell -- and would really appreciate some help/opinions. As both of these schools gave me pretty decent financial aid, the costs will be about the same (I'm also not too worried about the cost of living being somewhat higher in NYC) so we can ignore that.

I currently live in NYC and grew up there. In terms of geography, my preference would definitely be to stay in NY. That being said, Philly is fairly close and I would be willing to move if this is really a better choice for me. In terms of my interests, I have some interest in exploring the surgical specialities but really am open to just about anything. I think the research opportunities are exceptional at both institutions (Penn is Penn and Cornell is associated with HSS, MSK and Rockefeller which obviously present tremendous opportunities). Regarding my interest in surgery, I've noticed that Cornell seems to send fewer to surgical residency positions when compared to schools with similar reputations -- I'm curious as to why you all think this is???

In terms of curriculum, both seem to be pretty similar. Cornell is switching to a 1.5 year curriculum this year, so they're similar in this regard. Both schools do a lot of small group work. I'm a little worried about being the guinea pig for Cornell's new change but it does sound like the administration has planned this very carefully. Penn's curriculum is obviously well established and battle tested. However, I don't like that it is H/P/F. I know that general opinion is that this doesn't caused increased competition among students but I have spoken to Penn students who've said it does cause increased pressure on the individual (depending on who you are but I will probably be in this camp).

Couple more pros and cons of each: I love that Penn has CHOP and the associated research and clinical opportunities that come with it. I also really like that Penn is located on a campus with other graduate schools -- this creates enormous opportunities for dual degrees and cross-disciplinary research (weakness for Cornell). Penn also has stellar global clinical/research opps. For Cornell, I really like that it is a somewhat smaller class size -- I think this might mean slightly more guidance and advice when it comes to choosing specialities and finding research mentors.

I know Penn has the edge in prestige (somewhat big if you go by US News). Weill Cornell is obviously great as well but there does seem to be somewhat of a difference in their match lists. What do you all think?

Thanks!!!

You mentioned more pros for Penn than Cornell, so it looks like you're leaning towards it! Philadelphia is a great city (comparable to NYC, speaking as someone who also grew up in the city) -- I have a friend at Penn who really enjoys his time there. In regards to going into a surgical subspeciality, I think you have equal chances at both as they're both very prestigious, albeit Penn is one of the top 5 in USNWR. The H/P/F curriculm may be stressful, but not so much more than a P/F system where everyone is gunning for the AOA.

 

[Lya]

You really cannot go wrong here. Both places should give you great opportunities for competitive specialties like surgery. If you somehow don't get into competitive specialties for whatever reasons, it would not be because you chose one medical school over another.

With that said, I would have to go with Penn. Pre-clinical grades don't matter, so if I were you, I don't think I would weigh H/P/F that heavily. Sure, the added pressure might be still there. But at the end of the day, I don't think this is the most important aspect of medical school people should consider when comparing schools. Even though I am not in medical school yet, it seems like you will get great research mentors and advisers anywhere if you actively seek out through connections, word of mouth, and e-mails. Small class size might matter to some extent, but compared with what Penn could offer and comparing two schools in the grand scheme of things, the class size alone should not be the only thing you would look forward to in medical school. I would be more excited for dual degree opportunities and etc.

 

[jturkel]

Penn

 

[kevinus]

I think the reputation of U Penn. heavily outweighs that of Cornell. Perhaps it's the time to try living outside of NYC. Philly is a nice place. 🙂

 

[JBOB]

When considering schools of this caliber, the difference in reputation will have essentially zero effect on your future career.

 

[hopefulMD12]

I think the reputation of U Penn. heavily outweighs that of Cornell. Perhaps it's the time to try living outside of NYC. Philly is a nice place. 🙂

Be more specific. In medicine penn is slightly more well reputed. As an overall institution, it depends. Where I'm from, cornell is extremely highly thought of but no one really knows penn. Id say their reputations are overall even. Several people I met at cornell second look were deciding between Cornell, penn, wash u and Columbia, so people seem to think these schools offer similar opportunities.

Also don't make your judgements based on what SDN folks think. Most votes will mimic us news rankings.

 

[ChEMD]

If you'd like to stay in NYC, definitely go to Cornell, it's as simple as that. You're choosing between two top tier Ivy League schools, so prestige is not an issue, regardless of what some people on SDN think. Congrats on your acceptances!

 

[yankees26]

Penn. They have a long track record of sending students to competitive surgical specialties. I have also heard the Penn curriculum is top-notch and the H/P/F really is nothing to worry about. I think Pennmedstudent posted a lot of information about the impressions of the grading system- and all the students seem to really enjoy it- if its not broke, dont fix it. If that is something you are worried about, think about how competitive people are going to be in the P/F curriculum during clincal years when they are gunning for AOA. It looks like youre leaning towards Penn, and I think that would be a wise decision in the long run for your goals in medicine.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that cross-disciplinary collaboration really doesnt occur at Cornell, coming. Dont let anyone tell you the tech campus is going to really change anything in that regards. I asked Dean Bardes and he was blunt and said not really- its really just tech. There may be some biotech dont the road, but that will probably predominate at the Ithaca campus

 

[rfk1234]

Thanks for all the comments! Keep them coming... would love to hear from more current/matriculating Cornell and Penn students.

More organized pros/cons list:

Weill Cornell
Pros:

• It's in NYC which is home for me and the city I love.
• Small Class Size -- maybe translates into tighter class and more advising/guidance from faculty?
• Pass/Fail Curriculum
• Relationship with NYC science corridor- Hospital for Special Surgery/ Sloan-Kettering/Rockefeller, means outstanding research/shadowing oppertunities
• innovative learning formats -- flipped classroom, PBL, etc.
• Students seemed very happy and relaxed (at least during my interview)
• Is in the city that I most likely would like to match (although this could change...)

Cons:

• Not as highly ranked as Penn
• Match list great but not quite Penn's
• Not as many students match in surgical specialities (I'm interested although certainly not committed to surgery) -- still wondering why this is???
• New Curriculum (could be good or bad but just untested)
• Hospital is phenomenal but I do wonder how diverse the patient base is given it is in upper east side manhattan

Penn
Pros:

• More Prestigious (Higher US News Ranking)
• A LOT of resources -- tons of funding for student research/global study (although Cornell seems to have a good amount too)
• On Penn campus means more opportunities for dual degrees/cross-disciplinary research (if I choose to go this route -- no current plans to)
• Stellar Match List -- A lot match is surgery
• New Medical School Building (looks amazing) opening in winter
• CHOP -- I do like working with kids so this is a nice perk

Cons:

• Move to Philly -- I know a lot of people like the city but it's not NY/home
• H/P/F pre-clinical curriculum (worried about pressure that I'll put on myself)
• Larger Class Size compared to Cornell
• Probably wouldn't want to stay in Philly for residency (again could change but for now...)

Decision coming soon so I appreciate any and all opinions. Thanks again!

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

In your original post, you seem to have way more positives for Penn. Since cost is the same, I'd go with Penn. Plus, Penn is stronger in surgery vs. Cornell -- this would probably be my #1 consideration if I were you.

 

[alpinism]

Thanks for all the comments! Keep them coming... would love to hear from more current/matriculating Cornell and Penn students.

More organized pros/cons list:

Weill Cornell
Pros:

• It's in NYC which is home for me and the city I love.
• Small Class Size -- maybe translates into tighter class and more advising/guidance from faculty?
• Pass/Fail Curriculum
• Relationship with NYC science corridor- Hospital for Special Surgery/ Sloan-Kettering/Rockefeller, means outstanding research/shadowing oppertunities
• innovative learning formats -- flipped classroom, PBL, etc.
• Students seemed very happy and relaxed (at least during my interview)
• Is in the city that I most likely would like to match (although this could change...)

Cons:

• Not as highly ranked as Penn
• Match list great but not quite Penn's
• Not as many students match in surgical specialities (I'm interested although certainly not committed to surgery) -- still wondering why this is???
• New Curriculum (could be good or bad but just untested)
• Hospital is phenomenal but I do wonder how diverse the patient base is given it is in upper east side manhattan

Penn
Pros:

• More Prestigious (Higher US News Ranking)
• A LOT of resources -- tons of funding for student research/global study (although Cornell seems to have a good amount too)
• On Penn campus means more opportunities for dual degrees/cross-disciplinary research (if I choose to go this route -- no current plans to)
• Stellar Match List -- A lot match is surgery
• New Medical School Building (looks amazing) opening in winter
• CHOP -- I do like working with kids so this is a nice perk

Cons:

• Move to Philly -- I know a lot of people like the city but it's not NY/home
• H/P/F pre-clinical curriculum (worried about pressure that I'll put on myself)
• Larger Class Size compared to Cornell
• Probably wouldn't want to stay in Philly for residency (again could change but for now...)

Decision coming soon so I appreciate any and all opinions. Thanks again!

This is definitely not a pro.

 

[Amygdarya]

Disclaimer: Cornell is currently my front runner of the schools I'm accepted to, and I'm waitlisted at Penn. Just like you, I like the fact that Cornell is in NYC (I love the city and have a lot of good friends there), I like its small class size and its diverse, interesting and chill students (I also believe that Cornell's class size and student housing contribute to students being so tight; I went to Cornell's second look and absolutely loved the atmosphere and the students, both current and accepted).
However, in the unlikely case I get accepted from Penn's waitlist, I'll most likely choose it over Cornell. (I'm kind of going against my best interests by writing this post, ha.) The main reason for this is that Penn has a more established curriculum with a solid track record of strong Step scores and fantastic matches (as mentioned above, for gen surg and surgical subspecialties in particular). Plus, while there are great research opportunities at Cornell as well, it seems like there is more support for a research year and/or additional degrees at Penn, not to mention all the interdisciplinary collaborations that are encouraged at Penn. (Plus, more of a personal note, Penn is particularly strong in my area of interest.)

Still, I'd like to clarify some misconceptions you have about Cornell:
1) Hospitals: while NYP-Cornell, MSK and HSS are closest to Weill Cornell geographically, they are far from the only hospitals Cornell students get their clinical experience at. In fact, there is a substantial diversity in Cornell-affiliated hospitals and their patient populations. I actually think that in terms of hospital and patient diversity Cornell may beat Penn. The thing is, besides the Upper East Side hospitals mentioned, Cornell's student can also rotate at community hospitals in the 4 boroughs of New York: Lincoln Memorial in the Bronx (lower income African American and Hispanic population; I've heard from Cornell students that you get *a lot* of hands on experience there, the busiest emergency department in NYC, plus it's great for trauma surgery), New York Downtown Hospital in lower Manhattan (a large Chinese population), Brooklyn Hospital Center and New York Methodist Hospital in Brooklyn, New York Hospital Medical Center of Queens (one of the most ethnically diverse urban communities in the country). Plus, there are clinics and hospitals in Westchester, Upstate New York and Houston, TX, all of which you can rotate at. Talk about hospital setting and patient diversity!
Speaking of other hospital settings, correct me if I'm wrong but I think neither Cornell nor Penn is affiliated with a VA hospital (if this matters to you). Unlike Penn, Cornell doesn't have a dedicated children's hospital, although NYP-Cornell pediatric department is very strong in general peds and many subspecialties (to be perfectly honest, it's not quite as strong as CHOP, but I don't think it will make any difference in medical student training).
But, in any case, there is *tons* of hospital and patient diversity at Cornell. In fact, if I had to choose one word to characterize pretty much any aspect of Weill Cornell, I'd say diversity.

2) Global health: Penn has great global health opportunities, but so does Cornell. I really can't tell if one has better global health opportunities than the other because both are *very* strong. Penn's Botswana program sounds awesome (especially for those interested in AIDS/ID), but Cornell has its own clinic in Tanzania and its own medical college in Qatar, and it's also affiliated with hospitals in Brazil, Peru, Haiti (GHESKIO, a major international HIV/AIDS initiative in Haiti, of which Cornell is one of the main players) - and these are only the sites that Cornell has long-term established programs with, you have the option of going to a different location. Global health activities/research is highly encouraged at Cornell (just like additional degrees and interdisciplinary collaboration are encouraged at Penn) and well funded, whether you go for a summer or a whole year.

 

[trino]

Disclaimer: Cornell is currently my front runner of the schools I'm accepted to, and I'm waitlisted at Penn. Just like you, I like the fact that Cornell is in NYC (I love the city and have a lot of good friends there), I like its small class size and its diverse, interesting and chill students (I also believe that Cornell's class size and student housing contribute to students being so tight; I went to Cornell's second look and absolutely loved the atmosphere and the students, both current and accepted).
However, in the unlikely case I get accepted from Penn's waitlist, I'll most likely choose it over Cornell. (I'm kind of going against my best interests by writing this post, ha.) The main reason for this is that Penn has a more established curriculum with a solid track record of strong Step scores and fantastic matches (as mentioned above, for gen surg and surgical subspecialties in particular). Plus, while there are great research opportunities at Cornell as well, it seems like there is more support for a research year and/or additional degrees at Penn, not to mention all the interdisciplinary collaborations that are encouraged at Penn. (Plus, more of a personal note, Penn is particularly strong in my area of interest.)

Still, I'd like to clarify some misconceptions you have about Cornell:
1) Hospitals: while NYP-Cornell, MSK and HSS are closest to Weill Cornell geographically, they are far from the only hospitals Cornell students get their clinical experience at. In fact, there is a substantial diversity in Cornell-affiliated hospitals and their patient populations. I actually think that in terms of hospital and patient diversity Cornell may beat Penn. The thing is, besides the Upper East Side hospitals mentioned, Cornell's student can also rotate at community hospitals in the 4 boroughs of New York: Lincoln Memorial in the Bronx (lower income African American and Hispanic population; I've heard from Cornell students that you get *a lot* of hands on experience there, the busiest emergency department in NYC, plus it's great for trauma surgery), New York Downtown Hospital in lower Manhattan (a large Chinese population), Brooklyn Hospital Center and New York Methodist Hospital in Brooklyn, New York Hospital Medical Center of Queens (one of the most ethnically diverse urban communities in the country). Plus, there are clinics and hospitals in Westchester, Upstate New York and Houston, TX, all of which you can rotate at. Talk about hospital setting and patient diversity!
Speaking of other hospital settings, correct me if I'm wrong but I think neither Cornell nor Penn is affiliated with a VA hospital (if this matters to you). Unlike Penn, Cornell doesn't have a dedicated children's hospital, although NYP-Cornell pediatric department is very strong in general peds and many subspecialties (to be perfectly honest, it's not quite as strong as CHOP, but I don't think it will make any difference in medical student training).
But, in any case, there is *tons* of hospital and patient diversity at Cornell. In fact, if I had to choose one word to characterize pretty much any aspect of Weill Cornell, I'd say diversity.

2) Global health: Penn has great global health opportunities, but so does Cornell. I really can't tell if one has better global health opportunities than the other because both are *very* strong. Penn's Botswana program sounds awesome (especially for those interested in AIDS/ID), but Cornell has its own clinic in Tanzania and its own medical college in Qatar, and it's also affiliated with hospitals in Brazil, Peru, Haiti (GHESKIO, a major international HIV/AIDS initiative in Haiti, of which Cornell is one of the main players) - and these are only the sites that Cornell has long-term established programs with, you have the option of going to a different location. Global health activities/research is highly encouraged at Cornell (just like additional degrees and interdisciplinary collaboration are encouraged at Penn) and well funded, whether you go for a summer or a whole year.

Minor note. Philadelphia VA is just west of Penn on University Ave (its basically right next to the hospital). I'd be really surprised if Penn wasn't associated with it. But in this day and age of medical politics...who knows

 

[rfk1234]

Disclaimer: Cornell is currently my front runner of the schools I'm accepted to, and I'm waitlisted at Penn. Just like you, I like the fact that Cornell is in NYC (I love the city and have a lot of good friends there), I like its small class size and its diverse, interesting and chill students (I also believe that Cornell's class size and student housing contribute to students being so tight; I went to Cornell's second look and absolutely loved the atmosphere and the students, both current and accepted).
However, in the unlikely case I get accepted from Penn's waitlist, I'll most likely choose it over Cornell. (I'm kind of going against my best interests by writing this post, ha.) The main reason for this is that Penn has a more established curriculum with a solid track record of strong Step scores and fantastic matches (as mentioned above, for gen surg and surgical subspecialties in particular). Plus, while there are great research opportunities at Cornell as well, it seems like there is more support for a research year and/or additional degrees at Penn, not to mention all the interdisciplinary collaborations that are encouraged at Penn. (Plus, more of a personal note, Penn is particularly strong in my area of interest.)

Still, I'd like to clarify some misconceptions you have about Cornell:
1) Hospitals: while NYP-Cornell, MSK and HSS are closest to Weill Cornell geographically, they are far from the only hospitals Cornell students get their clinical experience at. In fact, there is a substantial diversity in Cornell-affiliated hospitals and their patient populations. I actually think that in terms of hospital and patient diversity Cornell may beat Penn. The thing is, besides the Upper East Side hospitals mentioned, Cornell's student can also rotate at community hospitals in the 4 boroughs of New York: Lincoln Memorial in the Bronx (lower income African American and Hispanic population; I've heard from Cornell students that you get *a lot* of hands on experience there, the busiest emergency department in NYC, plus it's great for trauma surgery), New York Downtown Hospital in lower Manhattan (a large Chinese population), Brooklyn Hospital Center and New York Methodist Hospital in Brooklyn, New York Hospital Medical Center of Queens (one of the most ethnically diverse urban communities in the country). Plus, there are clinics and hospitals in Westchester, Upstate New York and Houston, TX, all of which you can rotate at. Talk about hospital setting and patient diversity!
Speaking of other hospital settings, correct me if I'm wrong but I think neither Cornell nor Penn is affiliated with a VA hospital (if this matters to you). Unlike Penn, Cornell doesn't have a dedicated children's hospital, although NYP-Cornell pediatric department is very strong in general peds and many subspecialties (to be perfectly honest, it's not quite as strong as CHOP, but I don't think it will make any difference in medical student training).
But, in any case, there is *tons* of hospital and patient diversity at Cornell. In fact, if I had to choose one word to characterize pretty much any aspect of Weill Cornell, I'd say diversity.

2) Global health: Penn has great global health opportunities, but so does Cornell. I really can't tell if one has better global health opportunities than the other because both are *very* strong. Penn's Botswana program sounds awesome (especially for those interested in AIDS/ID), but Cornell has its own clinic in Tanzania and its own medical college in Qatar, and it's also affiliated with hospitals in Brazil, Peru, Haiti (GHESKIO, a major international HIV/AIDS initiative in Haiti, of which Cornell is one of the main players) - and these are only the sites that Cornell has long-term established programs with, you have the option of going to a different location. Global health activities/research is highly encouraged at Cornell (just like additional degrees and interdisciplinary collaboration are encouraged at Penn) and well funded, whether you go for a summer or a whole year.

Amygdarya -- Really helpful and thorough post. Thank you!!!

I'm still really struggling with the decision. I keep flip flopping back and forth, and am having trouble pulling the trigger in either direction. I do feel that I'd be happier/more comfortable at Cornell (which in the end could help me do better) but I'm have a very hard time turning down Penn and its reputation. I guess I'm wondering what Penn being the "better" school really translates into. If it's just so that I can say that I go to a top 5 medical school, this seems like a very silly reason. If, on the other hand, Penn will truly mean that I will be challenged more, be given far more resources and opportunities to grow as a student and future physician (possibly a surgeon), and be exposed to a higher caliber of mentors, peers, and residents, then I believe it would be worth leaving my comfort zone.

In regards to Penn having a stronger record of helping students achieve higher board scores, I have a really hard time believing that this is not simply due to the students they accept. If you've been accepted to Penn, isn't it likely that you will achieve a similar board score regardless of the institution you choose (at least when you're considering schools of a similar caliber, which I believe these are)? Or is the curriculum at Penn so much better than that of Cornell's that this alone makes a big difference? I honestly don't have an answer.

In the end, I'm having a hard time believing that choosing between 2 schools as highly regarded as Penn and Cornell really presents students with vastly different opportunities. Am I just being naive/practicing wishful thinking???

Most of this is just me thinking out loud but I really am very torn and appreciate all the advice and opinions!

 

[fhg]

In the end, I'm having a hard time believing that choosing between 2 schools as highly regarded as Penn and Cornell really presents students with vastly different opportunities. Am I just being naive/practicing wishful thinking???

Most of this is just me thinking out loud but I really am very torn and appreciate all the advice and opinions!

THIS. The distinction here should really be your gut feeling. Both will provide you with an excellent education. Both will provide immense resources. Both will surround you by talented peers and many resources. I, personally, would trust your gut feelings, not a minor distinction in ranking.

 

[ChEMD]

Amygdarya -- Really helpful and thorough post. Thank you!!!

I'm still really struggling with the decision. I keep flip flopping back and forth, and am having trouble pulling the trigger in either direction. I do feel that I'd be happier/more comfortable at Cornell (which in the end could help me do better) but I'm have a very hard time turning down Penn and its reputation. I guess I'm wondering what Penn being the "better" school really translates into. If it's just so that I can say that I go to a top 5 medical school, this seems like a very silly reason. If, on the other hand, Penn will truly mean that I will be challenged more, be given far more resources and opportunities to grow as a student and future physician (possibly a surgeon), and be exposed to a higher caliber of mentors, peers, and residents, then I believe it would be worth leaving my comfort zone.

In regards to Penn having a stronger record of helping students achieve higher board scores, I have a really hard time believing that this is not simply due to the students they accept. If you've been accepted to Penn, isn't it likely that you will achieve a similar board score regardless of the institution you choose (at least when you're considering schools of a similar caliber, which I believe these are)? Or is the curriculum at Penn so much better than that of Cornell's that this alone makes a big difference? I honestly don't have an answer.

In the end, I'm having a hard time believing that choosing between 2 schools as highly regarded as Penn and Cornell really presents students with vastly different opportunities. Am I just being naive/practicing wishful thinking???

Most of this is just me thinking out loud but I really am very torn and appreciate all the advice and opinions!

The caliber of students at Cornell and Penn is the same, as is any top-ish medical school. Remember, extracurriculars play a large role when determining who gets accepted at these schools, everyone has high stats and is very intelligent.

 

[metview]

Going to Cornell isn't going to hold you back from getting into a certain specialty; you would have an equal chance if you went to Penn or Cornell. The quality of students, mentors, faculty, and resources will be identical at any top institution. Once you get into these top schools it comes down to where you would be happy (location, curriculum, etc.). But Penn does have slightly more prestige because it is ranked higher, but that added prestige isn't going make a difference in matching when you compare it to Cornell. If it was Penn vs a state school, then the prestige would make a difference, but you are comparing two top ivy med schools.

In another thread someone posted highest combined step 1+step 2 scores, and the schools ranked at the top (WashU, Penn, Chicago, Northwestern) are usually those which accept students who have high stats to begin with.

 

[pyrrion89]

The caliber of students at Cornell and Penn is the same, as is any top-ish medical school. Remember, extracurriculars play a large role when determining who gets accepted at these schools, everyone has high stats and is very intelligent.

This is a huge point that is often overlooked. You find that the top-25 schools generally have about the same average MCAT and GPA scores, meaning everyone within this pool is pretty homogeneously intelligent. At a top-5 school, the applicants aren't more talented cognitively... they usually have something else going on unrelated to extra cognitive talented: Life experience, amazing hobby, etc. Maybe that makes for a more interesting menagerie of students with whom you'll interact... (You could also argue these people tend to be more type-A jerks, making for a more intimidating environment, unless you thrive on that)

But you'll find at any of these top-25, you'll meet bright students. I know two guys at Case Western with 41+ MCAT scores; their intelligence would blow away some kids at the top-5, no question. You can find this caliber of student at any top-25.

 

[yankees26]

Penn's reputation in medicine is definitely better than Cornell's. Sorry, that is a fact. It has one of the longest history of excellence in medicine. there is a reason besides the caliber of students why they year in year out produce one of the best match lists.

As people have been saying, going to WCMC would not hold you back from any specialty. However, Penn will help give you the edge for any speciality. If you are thinking about something competitive, especially surgical, I think Penn would be a better bet. Cannot beat Perelman's reputation. I think that this outweighs the other things you mention, especially if you are good with both schools

 

[ChEMD]

Penn's reputation in medicine is definitely better than Cornell's. Sorry, that is a fact. It has one of the longest history of excellence in medicine. there is a reason besides the caliber of students why they year in year out produce one of the best match lists.

As people have been saying, going to WCMC would not hold you back from any specialty. However, Penn will help give you the edge for any speciality. If you are thinking about something competitive, especially surgical, I think Penn would be a better bet. Cannot beat Perelman's reputation. I think that this outweighs the other things you mention, especially if you are good with both schools

You can match to any program in any specialty from either school. When you're talking about schools of this caliber, what you accomplish there is probably much more important than which school you went to.

 

[OrgasmicChemistry]

Even if your goal is surgical sub-specialty, don't delude yourself into thinking that the name difference between these schools will matter much. What will matter FAR MORE is the school that allows YOU to achieve the highest step 1 score. Personally, I'd be wary of being a guinea pig for a new curriculum. There are always kinks that get ironed out over the first few years (sometimes they don't allow enough step 1 study time at first, the information isn't arranged logically, etc.). I've heard of class averages taking a hit in the first year of a new curriculum (anecdotal, but I'd be interested to see some numbers if anyone can cite them).

That said, if I loved NYC I'd go there. If I loved Philly I'd go there.

 

[ace12345]

Perhaps some will disagree, but after a long application season and even longer time preparing for that I have found that it all operates on a curve. Are there students at the #30 school that can keep up with the #5? Sure. Are there students at the #60 school that can keep up with the #30? Sure. Can you do whatever you want out of any of those places? Sure. People argue over this significance of this curve all the time. I have asked about this curve in the past.

But at Penn, you don't think about this curve. You don't have to think about this curve, or prove to anyone anything about its existence of lack thereof. You are at the very top of the curve, and there is a deference that comes with that. There is a degree of respect, consciously or subconsciously, from lay people and very informed medical practitioners who hold the keys to your career alike. Maybe it sounds elitist or whatever, but in medicine and elsewhere, there are benefits to having the benefit of the doubt. I would go to Penn and never look back.

 

[Patros]

I don't think anyone can dispute that overall, UPenn has several advantages over Cornell. As an overall university, its only real rivals are Harvard and Yale, when you compare all of the schools and colleges under the UPenn name. In terms of research, it has so much NIH money pouring out of its pockets (>$450M in 2013, more than Weill+MSK+Rockefeller combined) that I imagine the medical students take showers in ultrapure water delivered straight from invitrogen. And of course, it has the longest track record of any US medical school. I don't think anyone can argue that UPenn will give you an edge in your career, although one can quibble whether or not it will be career-altering.

The only thing you should be considering at this point is whether you want to stay in NYC or not. At least in my opinion, Manhattan >>> Philly in terms of excitement and things to see/explore. However, Philly is a pretty big place and a good city to be a student in, so I think you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by going there.

 

[ChEMD]

I don't think anyone can dispute that overall, UPenn has several advantages over Cornell. As an overall university, its only real rivals are Harvard and Yale, when you compare all of the schools and colleges under the UPenn name. In terms of research, it has so much NIH money pouring out of its pockets (>$450M in 2013, more than Weill+MSK+Rockefeller combined) that I imagine the medical students take showers in ultrapure water delivered straight from invitrogen. And of course, it has the longest track record of any US medical school. I don't think anyone can argue that UPenn will give you an edge in your career, although one can quibble whether or not it will be career-altering.

The only thing you should be considering at this point is whether you want to stay in NYC or not. At least in my opinion, Manhattan >>> Philly in terms of excitement and things to see/explore. However, Philly is a pretty big place and a good city to be a student in, so I think you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by going there.

I'm trying to figure out what advantages you're talking about, but I'm having trouble. Seriously though, the opportunities at both of these schools will be no different for a medical student and will have no differential impact on your career.

 

[darkjedi]

I am quite biased since I go to Penn, and I agree with the other posters in this thread. However I do very much believe that your state of mind and overall happiness is much greater than any prestige bump that Penn may or may not have over cornell. The USNWR rankings should not be a factor at all in your decisions, but rather which institution you believe will be best able to suit your career. The percentage of surgery matches in each school does not reflect their reputation but merely the interests of the student that happen to match that year. If you decide on either Cornell or Penn, it should be because you believe that you will be able to take most advantage of what they have to offer.

Minor note. Philadelphia VA is just west of Penn on University Ave (its basically right next to the hospital). I'd be really surprised if Penn wasn't associated with it. But in this day and age of medical politics...who knows

Speaking of other hospital settings, correct me if I'm wrong but I think neither Cornell nor Penn is affiliated with a VA hospital (if this matters to you).

Penn is indeed associated with the Philadelphia VA and is one of our rotation sites. We all even get those fancy government VA badges to be able to work there.

 

[rfk1234]

Hi all. Thanks for all the feedback... It actually is helping and getting me to think about the choice from a few angles. Keep the comments coming.

@darkjedi: I completely agree with everything you're saying. Speaking of taking advantages of the plentiful opportunities that Penn has to offer, are there any that stand out to you that you think differentiates it from other schools? Obviously, this depends on what you're interested in but I'm curious if you can think of anything that hasn't been mentioned already?

@rfenzo and @Underu : To some degree, I agree with what you all are saying and I do know that Penn as an overall university is rivaled by very few. Having gone to a prestigious undergraduate institution, I also know that this can open additional doors and give you "the benefit of the doubt" in certain situations. Still though, Cornell is also a top university (although I know it's not quite Penn). Will I really get significantly more of this "benefit" by going to Penn over Cornell? If people think yes, let me know...

I'm leaning more towards the argument that I should go to the school at which I'll feel more comfortable taking advantage of the opportunities offered (like what darkjedi and chEMD are saying) and have the overall better quality of life (this is 4+ years of our lives). Problem is that I still haven't figured out where this will be... I'll have to soon!

 

[darkjedi]

Hi all. Thanks for all the feedback... It actually is helping and getting me to think about the choice from a few angles. Keep the comments coming.

@darkjedi: I completely agree with everything you're saying. Speaking of taking advantages of the plentiful opportunities that Penn has to offer, are there any that stand out to you that you think differentiates it from other schools? Obviously, this depends on what you're interested in but I'm curious if you can think of anything that hasn't been mentioned already?

Someone mentioned global health, which is something Penn I think prides itself off. Penn offers travel funding for those interested in global health experiences to help offset the expenses involved, including airfare and housing. Botswana is our flagship global health program, and faculty at all levels are involved with them.

If you are at all interested in dual degrees, Penn has amazing schools in almost all areas of study, but probably most popular being their MBA and MPH programs. Cornell also has good graduate schools, but since Cornells campus is split, I think there is more difficulty in being able to interact with other graduate faculty.

 

[Patros]

I'm trying to figure out what advantages you're talking about, but I'm having trouble. Seriously though, the opportunities at both of these schools will be no different for a medical student and will have no differential impact on your career.

I thought I already mentioned the advantages are the other schools/colleges in the UPenn name, huge amount of research, and track-record/prestige.
Other schools/colleges:
- One of the best business schools
-One of the best law schools
- One of the best engineering schools
- One of the best education schools
- Many of the best-funded biology graduate departments
- Formal public health school, don't know if it's "one of the best," but I'm sure UPenn has deep pockets to fund your public health interests
Last time I checked, Weill Cornell doesn't have most of the previous resources in Manhattan, and not sure if any med students go up to Ithaca.

I already detailed the research. I think UPenn has about 3-4x the research funding that Weill has (and about double what Weill+MSK+Rockefeller has), but it probably doesn't translate to any significant difference for med students. Probably, I don't know, to be honest.

As for track-record/prestige, I won't harp on that. I think it's fair to say that UPenn is generally more famous and may have a more influential network. I don't think this should be a major part of your decision, besides for giving you that warm fuzzy feeling.

As for the OP, I'm from the NYC area and can confidently say that Cornell and NY-Presbyterian are household names around here, as are Sloan-Kettering and to a degree, Rockefeller. It used to be my top choice (before rejection, sniff), so I'm definitely not saying it's subpar in any way. Weill also has some advantages, namely in cancer thanks to MSK and orthopedics thanks to the HSS. And you probably know that the upper East side is one of the best parts of Manhattan, so I'm sure it'll be a blast. You won't go wrong with Weill, and you definitely won't go wrong with UPenn.

 

[ChEMD]

I thought I already mentioned the advantages are the other schools/colleges in the UPenn name, huge amount of research, and track-record/prestige.
Other schools/colleges:
- One of the best business schools
-One of the best law schools
- One of the best engineering schools
- One of the best education schools
- Many of the best-funded biology graduate departments
- Formal public health school, don't know if it's "one of the best," but I'm sure UPenn has deep pockets to fund your public health interests
Last time I checked, Weill Cornell doesn't have most of the previous resources in Manhattan, and not sure if any med students go up to Ithaca.

I already detailed the research. I think UPenn has about 3-4x the research funding that Weill has (and about double what Weill+MSK+Rockefeller has), but it probably doesn't translate to any significant difference for med students. Probably, I don't know, to be honest.

As for track-record/prestige, I won't harp on that. I think it's fair to say that UPenn is generally more famous and may have a more influential network. I don't think this should be a major part of your decision, besides for giving you that warm fuzzy feeling.

As for the OP, I'm from the NYC area and can confidently say that Cornell and NY-Presbyterian are household names around here, as are Sloan-Kettering and to a degree, Rockefeller. It used to be my top choice (before rejection, sniff), so I'm definitely not saying it's subpar in any way. Weill also has some advantages, namely in cancer thanks to MSK and orthopedics thanks to the HSS. And you probably know that the upper East side is one of the best parts of Manhattan, so I'm sure it'll be a blast. You won't go wrong with Weill, and you definitely won't go wrong with UPenn.

The thing is, the things you've listed don't really impact a medical student at all. That's all I want to point out. Those "best" undergraduate and graduate programs don't mean anything for a medical education. Faculty research funding is not the same as student dollars. Once you get to a certain point of funding, the amount going to students does not change, I'm confident that there's plenty of research funding to go around for any student that wants it at either of these schools. I definitely wouldn't say that Penn is more famous as a blanket statement, it definitely depends on where you are. Me, not being from the northeast, I had never even heard of Penn before this year, and neither had many of my friends, but everyone has heard of Cornell.

 

[Amygdarya]

I do feel that I'd be happier/more comfortable at Cornell (which in the end could help me do better) but I'm have a very hard time turning down Penn and its reputation. I guess I'm wondering what Penn being the "better" school really translates into. If it's just so that I can say that I go to a top 5 medical school, this seems like a very silly reason. If, on the other hand, Penn will truly mean that I will be challenged more, be given far more resources and opportunities to grow as a student and future physician (possibly a surgeon), and be exposed to a higher caliber of mentors, peers, and residents, then I believe it would be worth leaving my comfort zone.

In regards to Penn having a stronger record of helping students achieve higher board scores, I have a really hard time believing that this is not simply due to the students they accept. If you've been accepted to Penn, isn't it likely that you will achieve a similar board score regardless of the institution you choose (at least when you're considering schools of a similar caliber, which I believe these are)? Or is the curriculum at Penn so much better than that of Cornell's that this alone makes a big difference? I honestly don't have an answer.

This is exactly what I've been wondering, too. I am also accepted to a school that is ranked higher than Cornell and that has a somewhat better reputation in medicine. However, I feel like Cornell is a much better personal fit for me on so many levels (location, curriculum, school "philosophy", the kind of students each school tends to attract - not that there is anything wrong with students at either school, I'm just looking for students who are more like me, and there are a lot more of these at Cornell). So I've been wondering if I could do at Cornell as well as at the other school (a relevant discussion with some very insightful answers is here).
The difference in prestige between these schools is marginal, while the opportunities (I think there are a lot more opportunities at any top school than any student can realistically take advantage of 🙂 seriously, think of what kind of opportunities *you* need rather than about the million opportunities the school has to offer) and the students (and, therefore, peer pressure) are great at both . So ultimately I agree with those who say that it comes down to how productive you will be in each environment, which in most cases correlates with how happy/comfortable you are there. So I'm choosing Cornell. The problem is, of course, that your schools are a lot more similar than my schools, so you have a harder decision to make 🙂

Personally, I'd be wary of being a guinea pig for a new curriculum. There are always kinks that get ironed out over the first few years (sometimes they don't allow enough step 1 study time at first, the information isn't arranged logically, etc.). I've heard of class averages taking a hit in the first year of a new curriculum (anecdotal, but I'd be interested to see some numbers if anyone can cite them).

This. If there is one thing I'm wary about regarding Cornell it's the new curriculum. As great as it sounds, glitches are pretty much guaranteed to happen. (Plus, it seems like they are still working on it... which is not particularly encouraging.) And this is where Penn wins with its established curriculum, hands down.
However, I'd like to clarify something. In the new curriculum, Cornell will allow 6-7 weeks for Step 1 prep (which, I believe, is the same length of time they allow now), which you will schedule any time you like during your first clinical year. It seems like there is a consensus that 6 weeks is an appropriate length of time to prepare for Step 1. Plus I wonder if one could schedule Step 1 after an "easier" rotation (psych, FM, public health at Cornell), which could possibly add some prep time during that rotation (this one, I admit, is hypothetical).

There is a degree of respect, consciously or subconsciously, from lay people and very informed medical practitioners who hold the keys to your career alike. Maybe it sounds elitist or whatever, but in medicine and elsewhere, there are benefits to having the benefit of the doubt. I would go to Penn and never look back.

Just as an aside, lay people often confuse Penn with Penn State 😀 and Cornell is often a more recognizable name for them (as mentioned above, there is probably some geographic variation). Not that this should have anything to do with choosing a medical school whatsoever.

 

[darkjedi]

Just as an aside, lay people often confuse Penn with Penn State 😀

yup, the number of times I've been asked about Sandusky

 

[Patros]

The thing is, the things you've listed don't really impact a medical student at all. That's all I want to point out. Those "best" undergraduate and graduate programs don't mean anything for a medical education. Faculty research funding is not the same as student dollars. Once you get to a certain point of funding, the amount going to students does not change, I'm confident that there's plenty of research funding to go around for any student that wants it at either of these schools. I definitely wouldn't say that Penn is more famous as a blanket statement, it definitely depends on where you are. Me, not being from the northeast, I had never even heard of Penn before this year, and neither had many of my friends, but everyone has heard of Cornell.

You mean they don't impact you as a medical student? I can't speak for the UPenn students, but at least from my own interviews, I saw lots of people pursuing additional degrees. I'm matriculating into a dual-degree program, so I'm super jelly of UPenn's graduate's programs in science and bioengineering (which is why I mentioned engineering previously). In any case, surely you can agree that it's better to have the resources available and decide you don't need them, as opposed to not having the resources and wishing you had them.

And I don't know if "everyone" has heard of Cornell (lots of people don't know their med school is in Manhattan), but you're probably right in saying that the difference in prestige is negligible.

 

[ChEMD]

You mean they don't impact you as a medical student? I can't speak for the UPenn students, but at least from my own interviews, I saw lots of people pursuing additional degrees. I'm matriculating into a dual-degree program, so I'm super jelly of UPenn's graduate's programs in science and bioengineering (which is why I mentioned engineering previously). In any case, surely you can agree that it's better to have the resources available and decide you don't need them, as opposed to not having the resources and wishing you had them.

And I don't know if "everyone" has heard of Cornell (lots of people don't know their med school is in Manhattan), but you're probably right in saying that the difference in prestige is negligible.

Nah, I meant the majority of medical students (percentage wise) who will graduate with only an MD. But you're right, if there is a specific dual-degree that someone is interested in, they should absolutely consider the level of those programs at each medical school. Having a bunch of other opportunities available is nice, but the reality is, the majority of students won't ever use them. So I guess it's up to each individual to decide if they can see themselves actually pursuing an opportunity that another school may not have, or do they just like that it's there, but have no intention of using it.

 

[rfk1234]

Nah, I meant the majority of medical students (percentage wise) who will graduate with only an MD. But you're right, if there is a specific dual-degree that someone is interested in, they should absolutely consider the level of those programs at each medical school. Having a bunch of other opportunities available is nice, but the reality is, the majority of students won't ever use them. So I guess it's up to each individual to decide if they can see themselves actually pursuing an opportunity that another school may not have, or do they just like that it's there, but have no intention of using it.

Yes, I think this a good way of putting it. Correct me if I'm wrong but the majority opinion seems to be that if you pursue/take advantage of similar opportunities at Cornell or Penn, you're future career prospects will be essentially the same. If however, you're interested in taking advantage of Penn's extended resources, i.e. additional dual degrees, cross-disciplinary research, etc., you're prospects may change... seems obvious but also helpful way of framing it.

For me, I'd say I'm not all that likely to pursue those extended resources that are unique to Penn. Although I've thought about an MBA (which would obviously favor Wharton), I think it is ultimately unlikely that I will go in this direction. Plus, if I did, I could do an MBA at Johnson in Ithaca (not as good but still excellent). More realistically, I'm interested in pursuing in depth basic science/translational/clinical research (most likely in neuroscience or cardiovascular disease, although this could change). I'd strongly consider taking a year-out for research after 3rd year, especially if I decide to pursue a specialty that favors this. Penn and Cornell both offer plenty of high quality research (I also doubt that the increased NIH funding at Penn substantially affects the med student experience) , and many students take a year-out at both institutions. The mechanism by which I'd do so might be different -- at Cornell, you seem to usually apply for outside funding (Howard Hughes Grant, etc.) whereas at Penn, you might pursue a funded dual degree such as an MTR (Masters in Translational Research). I'm not sure how much of a difference this makes. Penn does have more bio-engineering/bio-medical hybrid research which is intriguing as someone interested in surgery and technology (although I do not have an engineering background) and Cornell has intriguing opportunities at HSS, Rockefeller, MSK. As for global health, it sounds like both present excellent chances for student to do a foreign clinical/research rotation.

 

[Amygdarya]

Nah, I meant the majority of medical students (percentage wise) who will graduate with only an MD. But you're right, if there is a specific dual-degree that someone is interested in, they should absolutely consider the level of those programs at each medical school. Having a bunch of other opportunities available is nice, but the reality is, the majority of students won't ever use them. So I guess it's up to each individual to decide if they can see themselves actually pursuing an opportunity that another school may not have, or do they just like that it's there, but have no intention of using it.

I enthusiastically agree with both of these statements, but Penn (and, apparently, Penn's students) is an exception here. From Penn interview materials, of 2013 Penn Med graduates: 63% graduated in 4 years, 14% earned MD/PhD, 18% earned MD/MS, 14% stayed an extra year for a time out study, and 19% earned certificates (the numbers don't add up to 100% because some students earned both dual degrees and certificates - speaking of overachievers 🙂). So, dual degrees/extra research time etc. seem to be Penn's specialty, as is interdisciplinary collaboration, and for students pursuing either of these all the extra opportunities and all the surrounding schools come in handy. Now, there is some selection/self-selection going on here of course (during my interview day we were told that Penn was looking for students who would take advantage of the opportunities it had to offer, and I'm sure there are students who select Penn precisely for specific opportunities/dual degrees), so it's not like someone who just comes for an MD suddenly decides to do an MS in bioengineering simply because there is a top engineering school around the corner, but my point is, many Penn students actually take advantage of these opportunities.

 

[Amygdarya]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the majority opinion seems to be that if you pursue/take advantage of similar opportunities at Cornell or Penn, you're future career prospects will be essentially the same. If however, you're interested in taking advantage of Penn's extended resources, i.e. additional dual degrees, cross-disciplinary research, etc., you're prospects may change... seems obvious but also helpful way of framing it.

For me, I'd say I'm not all that likely to pursue those extended resources that are unique to Penn. Although I've thought about an MBA (which would obviously favor Wharton), I think it is ultimately unlikely that I will go in this direction. Plus, if I did, I could do an MBA at Johnson in Ithaca (not as good but still excellent). More realistically, I'm interested in pursuing in depth basic science/translational/clinical research (most likely in neuroscience or cardiovascular disease, although this could change). I'd strongly consider taking a year-out for research after 3rd year, especially if I decide to pursue a specialty that favors this. Penn and Cornell both offer plenty of high quality research (I also doubt that the increased NIH funding at Penn substantially affects the med student experience) , and many students take a year-out at both institutions. The mechanism by which I'd do so might be different -- at Cornell, you seem to usually apply for outside funding (Howard Hughes Grant, etc.) whereas at Penn, you might pursue a funded dual degree such as an MTR (Masters in Translational Research). I'm not sure how much of a difference this makes. Penn does have more bio-engineering/bio-medical hybrid research which is intriguing as someone interested in surgery and technology (although I do not have an engineering background) and Cornell has intriguing opportunities at HSS, Rockefeller, MSK. As for global health, it sounds like both present excellent chances for student to do a foreign clinical/research rotation.

I wholeheartedly agree with you about this: if you want to use a certain specific opportunity that a school has to offer, go there; if both schools have similar kinds of opportunities in the area that is of interest to you, it doesn't matter where you go and who cares about the other opportunities that you're not going to use anyway.

I also agree with you that Penn and Cornell have very strong basic science and clinical/translational research in many areas, so research opportunities are abound at each school.

However, the funding mechanism does make a difference, in my view, and that's where Penn wins. Outside funding (HHMI, NIH, Fulbright etc.) is quite competitive, although, of course, if your proposal is strong you can get it. On the other hand, I don't really know how competitive internal funding/MTR etc. at Penn is, but I suspect that it may be easier to get if you're really interested, have a solid mentor, a project etc. Because basically, if a school has a lot of money (as Penn does) and you want to get funded bad enough, they are usually likely to fund you.
So, while Cornell offers great research opportunities and you can certainly take a year off for research if you like (at Cornell second look I met students who took a year to do basic research at HSS, clinical research at MSK and global health research with GHESKIO in Haiti through Fulbright grant), it is my understanding that Penn's setup is more conductive to pursuing combined degrees/funded year-long projects.

To reiterate, the 2 aspects I think Penn wins in (aside from prestige considerations, which are relative anyway) are the well established curriculum and the combined degrees/research support. It's up to you to decide how important these are for you and whether they outweigh Cornell's advantages over Penn.

Sorry for not making your decision any easier, I'm just trying to share the information I have about the schools because I obviously care about both of them myself 🙂

 

[hopefulMD12]

Once again, do not make your pro-Penn arguments based on lay prestige, because you will lose that fight in probably most of the world. At least in the two parts of the world that I grew up in (outside of America), the reputation/ prestige of Cornell>>> Penn. At the top 25 level, just do your future classmates a favor and pick based on where you'll be happy and thriving.

 

[rfk1234]

Hi all! Just wanted to let you know that I just withdrew from Penn. I'm very excited to be going to Cornell! It was a really tough decision but ultimately came down to the fact that I think I'll just be happier at Cornell. I really appreciate all the help and advice! Best of luck to all of you who are still making decisions!

 

[trino]

Hi all! Just wanted to let you know that I just withdrew from Penn. I'm very excited to be going to Cornell! It was a really tough decision but ultimately came down to the fact that I think I'll just be happier at Cornell. I really appreciate all the help and advice! Best of luck to all of you who are still making decisions!

🙁 good luck! Now if we can just snag the Wisconsin and Columbia guy...

 

[Amygdarya]

Congrats on making your decision @rfk1234 !

@trino haha, don't worry, Penn has no shortage of people who want to go there 🙂

 

[metview]

Congrats on your decision.

I find it funny how people are saying that Cornell has more lay prestige than Penn. People who don't know what Penn is probably don't know what Cornell is. People often call Cornell the odd ivy league school out or a "fake ivy." I don't agree with that because Cornell is a great school, but I am just sharing what I have experienced.

 

[rfk1234]

Thanks everyone!

@trino -- Penn is an amazing school! This was an insanely difficult decision and I have no doubt someone fantastic and deserving will fill my spot. Good luck!

@metview -- Not that I'm coming down on either side, but I assure you that this "lay prestige" discussion had less than zero impact on my decision. Both are fantastic institutions and I have little doubt that both turn out excellent physicians.

 

[ChEMD]

Congrats on your decision.

I find it funny how people are saying that Cornell has more lay prestige than Penn. People who don't know what Penn is probably don't know what Cornell is. People often call Cornell the odd ivy league school out or a "fake ivy." I don't agree with that because Cornell is a great school, but I am just sharing what I have experienced.

FWIW, I had no idea what Penn was before this year, and I'd say that's pretty normal for people where I am from. When people think Pennsylvania, they often think Penn State because of the athletics department.

 

[mmmcdowe]

FWIW, I had no idea what Penn was before this year, and I'd say that's pretty normal for people where I am from. When people think Pennsylvania, they often think Penn State because of the athletics department.

Also didn't know of Penn or Columbia or Brown or Dartmouth before applying. I knew of Cornell because of this:

 

[Amygdarya]

Hey, @rfk1234 in regards to surgical opportunities at Cornell: check out the PreOp flyer posted on the internal Cornell web site (the one that we got passwords to by email on April 8th). It's pretty much some OR and clinic shadowing and monthly basic surgical skills sessions for 1st year students interested in surgery. An invitation to apply to the program will be sent some time this summer. Apparently, this is a relatively new program that reflects the growing interest in surgery among Cornell students.

 

[rfk1234]

Hey, @rfk1234 in regards to surgical opportunities at Cornell: check out the PreOp flyer posted on the internal Cornell web site (the one that we got passwords to by email on April 8th). It's pretty much some OR and clinic shadowing and monthly basic surgical skills sessions for 1st year students interested in surgery. An invitation to apply to the program will be sent some time this summer. Apparently, this is a relatively new program that reflects the growing interest in surgery among Cornell students.

@Amygdarya -- Yeah, I saw that a while back. Definitely looks like something I'd be interested in... Do you think the fact that we have to apply to the program means that they will have a limited number of spots available, i.e. some people may not be able to participate? I'm hoping that a small class size means these types of potential issues won't be a problem for us...

On another note, if you did decide to stay on one or more wait lists (sounds like you were still hoping for Penn), I wish you the best of luck. However, if you do end up coming to Cornell, I look forward to meeting you next year! Should be a great group of people

 

[Amygdarya]

@Amygdarya -- Yeah, I saw that a while back. Definitely looks like something I'd be interested in... Do you think the fact that we have to apply to the program means that they will have a limited number of spots available, i.e. some people may not be able to participate? I'm hoping that a small class size means these types of potential issues won't be a problem for us...

On another note, if you did decide to stay on one or more wait lists (sounds like you were still hoping for Penn), I wish you the best of luck. However, if you do end up coming to Cornell, I look forward to meeting you next year! Should be a great group of people

I emailed the contact person for the program, and he replied that yes, the number of spots was limited, but he didn't know how competitive it was to get one. I think it's the nature of the program (skills labs) that necessitates a limited size. Also, I think one of the reasons to have applications to the program is to ensure that students who participate in the program have a commitment to it (it does require some time commitment), so it's not like there are 50 people at the first skills sessions and 5 at the next or something like that. I cannot possibly know this for sure, but I think if you express your interest in surgery, you'll have no problem getting into the program.
Speaking of skills, there is also an EM interest group that organizes certain skills sessions + apparently, Cornell is introducing more skills sessions for the whole class in the new curriculum.

Thank you for your wishes. Most likely, I'll see you in August 🙂 Cornell is going to have an awesome entering class (though, I'm sure, so is Penn).