My daughter has a difficult descision to make and I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions. She is a senior in HS and has been accepted to all 8 of the universities she has applied to. She would like to be a physisian and understands the demands of obtaining that goal. I spoke to a friend of mine who is a young physician and he said if he were to do it all over again he would do the nursing route then apply to med school. My daughter is seriously looking at Creighton's Pre-Med Nursing Program. It is a 5 year commitment and it is structured, which is nice. She will get a lot of clinical experience which is great (according to Doc friend) when and if residency comes about. Any thoughts about this type of program or Creighton Pre-Med Nursing in general?
Pre-Med Nursing Creighton
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Creighton is a great pre-med school. I would just be a biology major (or something else that interests her) rather than a nursing major, because nursing school can really hurt your GPA and take up time that could be used studying for the MCAT (plus it takes an extra year). Go Jays!
Is she interested in nursing? And would she be able to explain her choice in an interview and reflect on why that would make her a better physician?
I took a year between my undergrad and med, and have thought quite a few times that I wish I would have gone to nursing school. I think nursing is cool, you get great experience, and I could have made a decent salary in my year off. And had a job to fall back on if I hadn't been accepted, because nothing in bio really interested me. However -- there's a lot to consider if someone is just doing this for med school. Tons of your classes will be science based and nursing focused, compared to having another major and including the pre-requisite classes at medical school.
At my interviews I was often asked about my non-science classes and study abroad experiences. Just things to think about. I am totally convinced that your major doesn't matter at all, so long as you volunteer, get good grades, find things you're interested in, and get some clinical experience one way or the other. College should be about exploring tons of things and finding the profession that is best suited towards your interests.
I took a year between my undergrad and med, and have thought quite a few times that I wish I would have gone to nursing school. I think nursing is cool, you get great experience, and I could have made a decent salary in my year off. And had a job to fall back on if I hadn't been accepted, because nothing in bio really interested me. However -- there's a lot to consider if someone is just doing this for med school. Tons of your classes will be science based and nursing focused, compared to having another major and including the pre-requisite classes at medical school.
At my interviews I was often asked about my non-science classes and study abroad experiences. Just things to think about. I am totally convinced that your major doesn't matter at all, so long as you volunteer, get good grades, find things you're interested in, and get some clinical experience one way or the other. College should be about exploring tons of things and finding the profession that is best suited towards your interests.
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Assuming there are not other issues (money, family, etc) she should go to her favorite school and major in something that interests her. I was not a science major (double in math and basically religion) and I have never regretted it. You will never have the opportunities you have as an undergrad to take your liberal arts and humanities classes - you will find a way to take orgo if you decide you want to go to med school. (And the reality is many students start college pre-med and end up somewhere else which is fine too!)
I picked my college based on my gut instinct where I thought I would be happy. It worked out great!
College is a fun time and I am sure she will be happy anywhere she goes. My friends who ended up at their last choices still had a great time and got really good educations. She earned the priviledge or picking her favorite school, but I dont think she can go wrong!
Any chance she wants to be a nurse practicioner? I think thats another great career option as you get to see pts and make medical decisions after far fewer years of training. I dont think you get the breadth or depth of practice you get as an MD, but I bet it would be a really satisfying career and the ones I have worked with are all really happy. In which case nursing school is the way to go.
Final question - how hard would it be for her to change majors if she decides nursing isnt for her or she wants to go to med school?
So if she is passionate about nursing or the money is really tight (who isnt having trouble this year!) and it gives her a chance to earn a bit before med school, she should go for it. If she is doing it so it looks good or helps her get into or excell in med school, I would recommend a different route.
I picked my college based on my gut instinct where I thought I would be happy. It worked out great!
College is a fun time and I am sure she will be happy anywhere she goes. My friends who ended up at their last choices still had a great time and got really good educations. She earned the priviledge or picking her favorite school, but I dont think she can go wrong!
Any chance she wants to be a nurse practicioner? I think thats another great career option as you get to see pts and make medical decisions after far fewer years of training. I dont think you get the breadth or depth of practice you get as an MD, but I bet it would be a really satisfying career and the ones I have worked with are all really happy. In which case nursing school is the way to go.
Final question - how hard would it be for her to change majors if she decides nursing isnt for her or she wants to go to med school?
So if she is passionate about nursing or the money is really tight (who isnt having trouble this year!) and it gives her a chance to earn a bit before med school, she should go for it. If she is doing it so it looks good or helps her get into or excell in med school, I would recommend a different route.
Thanks you guys for your feedback. I am concerned about the rigors of the major. The schedule is planned for her all 5 years. I just don't know about the first statement about how it might hurt her gpa. Our thought was if she was successful she could pull some shifts in med school to suppliment her income. My wife and I are commited to her financially, whatever she does. Certainly majoring in Biology would be easier for her but I just look at all the Pre-Med Biology majors out there that don't get in. I don't think she will be happy as a lab tech in a hospital. I know there are other options such as dental, podiatry and pharmacy. We just thought, if she wasn't the caliber, that continueing her education as a PA or NP would be great also and rewarding both finacially and emotionally. She currently attends an all girls catholic prep high school. She is big into community service and wishes to continue. Creighton indicated they take care of their own. From what I hear they take about 50% of there undergrads into there graduate programs.
To be honest, nursing is an incredibely difficult major. There is a shortage of nurses due to lack of faculty as it is, and for someone to take a spot in a nursing program that isn't actually going to practice as a nurse is taking a spot from someone who is actually going to make it their profession. Also, nursing and being a physician are two completely different things. Their approach to medicine is different, so if she wants to be a doctor, it is a much better idea to major in something like biology than go on to medical school.
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While there are tons of bio majors who don't get into med school, there are tons of bio majors who do! And plenty of other majors too! And there are plenty of other good careers out there.
She might not be happy as a lab tech in a hospital. But she may decide to get a PhD and pursue a research or academic career, or she might love working on health policy or going into social work and advocating for pts, etc. If she majors in bio and decides she wants to be a nurse, there are lots of programs that will allow her to do so.
Which is why its important for her to pursue a major she is passionate about rather than one that will prepare her for professional school.
My advice would be for her to go to the schools she is interested in (if you live far away tell her to just pick a few favorites), sit in on classes, spend a night in the dorm if she can, eat in the cafeteria, etc and see where she feels most at home. If she is happy, she will thrive and suceed regardless of the school or her major.
Does she have until May 1st to decide where she wants to go? If so, maybe she could spend some time shadowing - spend a few days with an in-patient nurse, a few afternoons with a NP or PA. When she goes to visit colleges, maybe a professor or two will talk to her about his or her research and academic career.
Finally make sure she is making the decision for herself. She is the one who has worked hard in HS (and previously) to have this difficult choice, and she is the one who has to live with the consequences of her decision. While you might think that a school and major is best and as parents its your role to give her advice and help her decide, its ultimately her choice.
Finally, I think it would be very hard to do nursing shifts during med school! Maybe during vacations and breaks, but most weeks I had enough trouble just keeping up with my coursework without being on my feet for 8 or 12 hours over the weekend working really hard caring for pts!
She might not be happy as a lab tech in a hospital. But she may decide to get a PhD and pursue a research or academic career, or she might love working on health policy or going into social work and advocating for pts, etc. If she majors in bio and decides she wants to be a nurse, there are lots of programs that will allow her to do so.
Which is why its important for her to pursue a major she is passionate about rather than one that will prepare her for professional school.
My advice would be for her to go to the schools she is interested in (if you live far away tell her to just pick a few favorites), sit in on classes, spend a night in the dorm if she can, eat in the cafeteria, etc and see where she feels most at home. If she is happy, she will thrive and suceed regardless of the school or her major.
Does she have until May 1st to decide where she wants to go? If so, maybe she could spend some time shadowing - spend a few days with an in-patient nurse, a few afternoons with a NP or PA. When she goes to visit colleges, maybe a professor or two will talk to her about his or her research and academic career.
Finally make sure she is making the decision for herself. She is the one who has worked hard in HS (and previously) to have this difficult choice, and she is the one who has to live with the consequences of her decision. While you might think that a school and major is best and as parents its your role to give her advice and help her decide, its ultimately her choice.
Finally, I think it would be very hard to do nursing shifts during med school! Maybe during vacations and breaks, but most weeks I had enough trouble just keeping up with my coursework without being on my feet for 8 or 12 hours over the weekend working really hard caring for pts!
Thank you again for your comments. I understand that the two professions are different ,yet the same in many ways. As a father I have to let my daughter make up her own mind. I had a roommate at U C Davis who was pre-med and I remember the difficult schedule he had. I am sure she will be successful in anything she does. Having fun and staying focussed is important. I know parents put a lot of pressure on there kids and I don't want to do it. I work with a lot of nurses in my profession and to be honest most are not brain surgeons. I am not putting down the profession but I thought with an undergraduate degree in nursing wouldn't be that difficult, and therefor boost that gpa and thus increase her chances to get into med school. Maybe I am wrong about how difficult it is but my doc friend is thinking the same as I. Why would the school be offering the major as a Pre-Med Nursing degree? Certainly an admissions officer would see she intended to go into medicine! She could always change her major if she didn't like it.
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No way will she be able to work as a nurse during medical school, it is too time consuming. I only know one pre-med nursing student at creighton, and her GPA has been damaged because of the major (plus shes there an extra year). I really would recommend that you let your daughter pick a BS or BA that interests her, and supplement it with the pre-med pre-reqs. Sending her to Creighton would be a great step if thats where she wants to go, because it is true that their graduate schools prefer their undergrads. If she doesn't get in, that doesnt mean she has to be a lab tech like you indicated. In fact, she could still go to nursing school if she wanted. Good luck!
PS: the best way to boost your GPA is to take summer school courses and then lighten your schedule during the semester.
I just looked at the website for the program, and it looks like a terrible idea to me--perhaps it is designed simply for those students who desperately need to make some money during college or during a year(s) they plan to take off before applying to medical school.
Med schools are going to ask your daughter why she did the nursing program. I can't really think of a good reason to give them if she is going to go straight from undergrad to med school. One of the killer questions to under-prepared, young applicants, is:
Q: "why do you want to be a doctor?"
A: generic answer like, I like taking care of people and I'm good at it...
Q: "then why don't you just go into nursing?"
A: unprepared applicants fumble
This program puts her in a catch 22--if she realized from the beginning that she wanted to do "pre-med" why'd she do nursing, which is a career-path degree. Or if she claims she was just doing it for the nursing degree...why is she sitting there applying for a medical degree now, and why didn't she leave the program earlier and get a different degree, when she realized nursing wasn't appropriate for her?
There are lots of other ways to make money during school that don't require you to focus your education on earning that money. You only get to do undergrad once.
Study what you love.
I am a non-traditional applicant: In undergrad I earned degrees in structural engineering & Russian literature. Medical schools LOVE applicants who don't bring the same old stuff to the table.
Med schools are going to ask your daughter why she did the nursing program. I can't really think of a good reason to give them if she is going to go straight from undergrad to med school. One of the killer questions to under-prepared, young applicants, is:
Q: "why do you want to be a doctor?"
A: generic answer like, I like taking care of people and I'm good at it...
Q: "then why don't you just go into nursing?"
A: unprepared applicants fumble
This program puts her in a catch 22--if she realized from the beginning that she wanted to do "pre-med" why'd she do nursing, which is a career-path degree. Or if she claims she was just doing it for the nursing degree...why is she sitting there applying for a medical degree now, and why didn't she leave the program earlier and get a different degree, when she realized nursing wasn't appropriate for her?
There are lots of other ways to make money during school that don't require you to focus your education on earning that money. You only get to do undergrad once.
Study what you love.
I am a non-traditional applicant: In undergrad I earned degrees in structural engineering & Russian literature. Medical schools LOVE applicants who don't bring the same old stuff to the table.
Well, your post got my attention since I was a nursing major (BSN) and did pre-med at the same time, so I say this is very possible. I graduated this May and I'm planning to apply next year for med school. Overall, it took me 4.5 years to finish everything up, so just one extra semester. But I used all my summers within that four years to take my pre-med prerequisites since there is no way you can fit the pre-med classes with the nursing classes especially if you move to your junior and senior year where you have to do your clinical rotations for 2-3 days a week.
I agree with what everbody is saying. You should take a major that really interests you and that you will enjoy the most. Based from my experience, nursing
can be a good way to prepare you in going to med school since you are gonna have hands-on experience with the patients and physicians, which might be a plus factor in your resume for med school. The only problem I had is the load of work that I have to take in taking science and nursing classes at the same time. They are completely different, nursing classes are designed for career-path. But I recommend taking pre-med classes during summer I and II, you'll have time to focus on your nursing class and premed classes. This can really boost your gpa.
If you have any questions, just feel free to let me know!!
I agree with what everbody is saying. You should take a major that really interests you and that you will enjoy the most. Based from my experience, nursing
can be a good way to prepare you in going to med school since you are gonna have hands-on experience with the patients and physicians, which might be a plus factor in your resume for med school. The only problem I had is the load of work that I have to take in taking science and nursing classes at the same time. They are completely different, nursing classes are designed for career-path. But I recommend taking pre-med classes during summer I and II, you'll have time to focus on your nursing class and premed classes. This can really boost your gpa.If you have any questions, just feel free to let me know!!
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