Program Specific Questions

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Hey everyone! I could really use some help deciding which of the following interviews to cancel. I've been on 2 so far, so I think I should cut 3 interviews from my list so that I go on 15 total. I'm struggling because from their websites many of these programs look very similar. Any help/advice/insight would be greatly appreciated!

1. Albany Medical Center
2. Bridgeport Hospital/Yale
3. Cleveland Clinic
4. Lenox Hill
5. Washington Hospital Center/Georgetown
6. Beth Israel
7. St. Luke's-Roosevelt
8. Jacobi
9. Norwalk Hospital/Yale
10. Roger Williams
11. Santa Barbara Cottage
12. Stony Brook
13. SUNY downstate
14. UConn
15. Waterbury hospital/Yale
16. Winthrop
 

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I am a very average student from lower tier US schools trying to maximize my chance of matching to cards fellowship later. Could you please rank the following programs in terms of reputation? Really appreciate your input!

California Pacific Medical Center
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine at MetroHealth Medical Center
Hofstra North Shore-LIJ School of Medicine at Staten Island University Hospital Program
Indiana University Health Ball Memorial Hospital
Loma Linda University
New York-Presbyterian/Queens
Southern Illinois University School of Medicine
Spokane Teaching Health Center Program
St Lukes University Hospital
SUNY Downstate
Texas Tech University (Amarillo) Program
University of Arizona College of Medicine at South Campus
University of Hawaii
University of Miami Palm Beach Regional Campus
University of Nevada Reno
University of Nevada School of Medicine (Las Vegas)
University of New Mexico
University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center
Winthrop University Hospital
 
I see a strong bent to the West Coast here.

DO NOT go to Palm Beach. DO NOT. My first year was like their first or second year even as a program, so they wouldn't even had had seniors there. Obviously they had attendings, and by now some seniors. I wouldn't even hate on a program just for being new, but I bet unless they can guarantee taking you into a cards position via their affiliation (and they likely can't) I can't imagine is a good idea for fellowship matching, especially competitive likely out of the question.

Even if I'm wrong on the fellowship thing, if they have had the same PD since the start (and looking at the page they still have the guy who was chief when I was there) it was the only program I knew within 5 min of interviewing was a no go. They were yelling at each other during AM report and it was frankly hostile. So much so they had to be reminded interviewees were there, and they tried to laugh it up later but it was clear that was them on their good behavior. The PD is old and gruff, and while he may have perfectly great experience, said some things that really turned me off. He is either ex-military or close to it. Old school East Coast conservative medicine culture.

If you're wondering what that means, you should read and learn more about East and West coast medical training culture and ask some people from your alma mater. Look it up, you can see what docs teaching you now did med school or residency or fellowship or academics on the East Coast, or, if you are East going West, still look it up even though you're going from military to civilian life. I know a new fellow from the East coast that didn't appreciate the "laid back" culture of the West and while it is laid back, let's just say they were getting hell for not being "nice" enough to nurses. Before you think that's not a big deal, think again. "Laid back" can also equal passive aggressive. Not being liked by laid back types can still **** you as hard as anywhere.

Indiana Ball may be the hospital in Indiana that is an IMG mill, did not fill in last year's main match, may have not in prior years, possibly related to a series of publicized lawsuits on IMG abuse, some really atrocious racial and sexual harassment stuff. For a resident suit to WIN, means it really was that bad and there was proof. I might be wrong but google "Indiana hospital residency program lawsuit" and read on. Could be fine for an AMG and the training could be fine, but logistically any program struggling to fill multiple years in a row could spell schedule disaster for you (I know residents who had to give up their precious cards and elective time to fill in for holes in the schedule for years) and is chock full of IMGs is not where cards fellows are made typically. I'm not trying to **** on them, it could be a great place to be. But you want to know everything you can on a program, especially the dirty.

I was told all New York hospitals are the most scut heavy programs ever and to avoid them at almost all costs. They are traditionally IMG grist mills. Perhaps the specific one is good for fellowship, I dunno.

I personally liked UNM, Spokane, Univ of Arizona (but not specifically South, I dunno on that one) but couldn't speak to fellowship prospects.

Traditional wisdom has apparently said University always > community program for fellowship, but that's not strictly true. I can't say that UNM and U of A are better than the other on the list for fellowhip but you have to do research to see which community programs are superior to which Uni programs for fellowship.

There are threads to indicate what to look for to see what makes for a good program for fellowship, and what questions to ask. The websites can actually help. Things like elective time, opportunities for research, fellowship advising/mentorship programs, fellowship match lists/rates, board pass rates, representation at meetings, publications, affiliation with fellowships or other academic institutions (and what that really means on a practical level).

I say this because you will have to feel some of this out yourself, you listed enough community programs and uni programs of similar tier that many will not be able to tell you as much as you will be able to figure out by researching, asking questions of the programs yourself.

If you are interested in cards, run your list by some cards people on SDN, or better yet, IRL. If those types won't talk to you, you can at minimum research the academic underpinnings of cards people at your school on the webpage. See where they did residency. Ask them about it. Granted it was a long time ago for them and things change, but while emailing a stranger "help me with this list" emailing a cards guy you don't know saying "I'm a student here considering residency at your alma mater residency program, I'm interested in cards, I would appreciate any words of wisdom" you'd be shocked how many docs love the chance to tell you about the good old days when they wouldn't want to spend 10 seconds acknowledging your presence and teach on rotation.

Just my 5 cents since this was clearly more than 2 cents.
 
I kind of like programs that do a lot of yelling at each other, just not at one person. My program is so etiquette based it's weird. People smile and talk like robots. We spend 60% of our patient care time on communication skills rather than clinical knowledge
 
James ij said:
I kind of like programs that do a lot of yelling at each other, just not at one person. My program is so etiquette based it's weird. People smile and talk like robots. We spend 60% of our patient care time on communication skills rather than clinical knowledge
Click to expand...

Maybe the administration used poisonous gases and poisoned their asses.

Binary solo!
 
Crayola, where can I read more about West Coast vs East coast residency styles? Also, what did you like a lot about New Mexico and what was the interview and dinner like?
 
The only two I know anything about on that list are Case and LIJ, both of which are good residency programs. NSUH is in Long Island and LIJ is in Queens, but the nursing and ancillary support is much better than anything in Manhattan and it has a good fellowship match.

I never went to Winthrop, but I've heard it's decent comparatively speaking.
 
a3344305 said:
I am a very average student from lower tier US schools trying to maximize my chance of matching to cards fellowship later. Could you please rank the following programs in terms of reputation? Really appreciate your input!

California Pacific Medical Center
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine at MetroHealth Medical Center
Hofstra North Shore-LIJ School of Medicine at Staten Island University Hospital Program
Indiana University Health Ball Memorial Hospital
Loma Linda University
New York-Presbyterian/Queens
Southern Illinois University School of Medicine
Spokane Teaching Health Center Program
St Lukes University Hospital
SUNY Downstate
Texas Tech University (Amarillo) Program
University of Arizona College of Medicine at South Campus
University of Hawaii
University of Miami Palm Beach Regional Campus
University of Nevada Reno
University of Nevada School of Medicine (Las Vegas)
University of New Mexico
University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center
Winthrop University Hospital
Click to expand...

usc, NSLIJ, Downstate, winthrop that said, I know nothing about university of new mexico, arizona, hawaii, loma linda university. on your list usc should be #1
 
SUNY Downstate will help you get into cardiology, but that place will make you miserable.
 
For california programs , USC>LLU> CPMC for cardiology placement IMO. LLU often takes their own for cardio fellowship I don't know how this fits into the larger scheme of programs.
 
IMreshopeful said:
The only two I know anything about on that list are Case and LIJ, both of which are good residency programs. NSUH is in Long Island and LIJ is in Queens, but the nursing and ancillary support is much better than anything in Manhattan and it has a good fellowship match.

I never went to Winthrop, but I've heard it's decent comparatively speaking.
Click to expand...

FYI, Case Metrohealth is not the real Case, it's the one that's primarily DO/IMG.
 
copperpenny189 said:
Crayola, where can I read more about West Coast vs East coast residency styles? Also, what did you like a lot about New Mexico and what was the interview and dinner like?
Click to expand...

UNM has the rep for being the most laid back program in the country. They have a family atmosphere, the good thing being that people will pitch in if someone's struggling. The bad thing being that people can get kinda lost that way. Big program, like 30ish. What I just said was what everyone including the PD to me personally.

The negative was that apparently the nursing staff leaves something to be desired (high turnover at Uni like most Uni programs, especially if they have a nursing school), you'll get paged about urgent CBGs of 140 in the middle of the night. On the other hand, at the VA, the nurses have been working there for 40 years union, so they can be *too* competent in that they won't page you when they really really really should. None of what I said is particular to anywhere, it's true of most places.

They felt they did more SW than they would have liked (true everywhere) but it sounded like particularly true there. They said that year there was a project to hire more SW/Behavioral health people to help with that.

They do a lot of rotations at the VA and they love it. The thing about the VA is that it is its own beast, that is true everywhere. Residents have things they love about the VA and things they don't. VA is more laidback, but at the same time that means it takes FOOOOOREEEVVVVER for anything to happen.

Very very very nice atmosphere and comraderie. The dinner had great turn out.

East Coast is just more militaristic. More yelling. More f*bombs. More scut work. More formality. You should never refer to an attending by their first name unless they specifically demand it of you, however on the East coast that ain't gonna happen, so no worries about that.
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/05/are-east-coast-doctors-different-from.html
But seriously just google "east coast versus west coast doctors"
In fact, it would make for fun convo to ask some of your attendings, I'm sure they'd love to tell you all about it

I have more specific examples, but most of them include yelling and cursing and tears mostly.
 
I was wondering if anyone knew of the reputation of these programs: Cincinatti, Minnesota, Indiana, UPMC Mercy, Southern Illinois, Cook County. How would you rank them depending on prestige/how good of programs they are?
 
How would you rank these programs based on prestige/how good of programs they are: Indiana, Minnesota, Cincinatti, UPMC Mercy, Southern Illinois, Cook County? And what tier would you classify them in? Any place that you would cut out of this list (if I get more interviews)? I think Henry Ford and William Beaumont are low tier so I'm planning on dropping those ones.
 
medstudent7860 said:
How would you rank these programs based on prestige/how good of programs they are: Indiana, Minnesota, Cincinatti, UPMC Mercy, Southern Illinois, Cook County? And what tier would you classify them in? Any place that you would cut out of this list (if I get more interviews)? I think Henry Ford and William Beaumont are low tier so I'm planning on dropping those ones.
Click to expand...

Probably the order you listed them in right there. I saw from another thread you have about 12 interviews. I honestly wouldn't cut any, most people I know from last year went on roughly that much so unfortunately it's just the norm these days because everyone is applying to more places than previously
 
Cincinatti & Indiana are solid.

prestige? if it's not recognizable by name as part of an academic institution, no prestige, I would say that about Cook and UPMC Mercy although they could be fine programs, I don't know anything about them except that

don't know about the other programs
 
How would you rank the following programs based on prestige/how good they are?

St Luke roosevelt (NYC)
University of Kansas
UConn
St louis University
Lenox Hill
University of tennessee health science center
Sunny Upstate
Baystate Medical Center
 
Just wanted to point out that it was St. Vincent that had the civil rights lawsuit and didn't fill last year not IU Ball Memorial. Haven't been there myself but I did rotate at Indiana U and talked to students/residents who had rotated there. It's about half IMG and fellowship match ain't so great but their residents do have the option to do electives at IU so you have the odd person who does cards or crit care. No one had anything nasty to say about the place regarding malignancy/abuse/etc.
 
ordersol7 said:
Just wanted to point out that it was St. Vincent that had the civil rights lawsuit and didn't fill last year not IU Ball Memorial. Haven't been there myself but I did rotate at Indiana U and talked to students/residents who had rotated there. It's about half IMG and fellowship match ain't so great but their residents do have the option to do electives at IU so you have the odd person who does cards or crit care. No one had anything nasty to say about the place regarding malignancy/abuse/etc.
Click to expand...
What's Indiana University's IM program like? Is it half IMG, etc., too?
 
Indiana University is fine & not an IMG mill.

Given your list, I would prioritize going to the Uni programs over community unless you really get a feel that a Uni program seriously sucks compared to an outstanding community program. Then just research it heavy at the interview to compare. You are comparing apples & oranges with uni vs community.

I would definitely check out Minnesota if it's that vs community unless you hear otherwise that the community program is stronger than 'sota. Minnesota is nondescript but as I understand it just fine.

I would take it over a NY program personally, except as a poster said above, you know a NY program is going to get you what you want.
 
TheGauze said:
How would you rank the following programs based on prestige/how good they are?

St Luke roosevelt (NYC)
University of Kansas
UConn
St louis University
Lenox Hill
University of tennessee health science center
Sunny Upstate
Baystate Medical Center
Click to expand...
Kansas, uconn near the top. SLU, UTHSC are just fine though. Don't know about the others.
 
Minnesota is a solid mid-tier program. It is definitely on the same level as Indiana and comparable in reputation to UIC, Loyola, Rush, Cincinnati. I would put it below state programs like Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, and Wisconsin; however I think it is better than KU, SLU, SIU, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kentucky and any community programs in the Midwest (based on match lists and competitiveness of the residency itself). Obviously Midwest programs like Vandy, UC, Northwestern, and WUSTL have superior reputations. Definitely just my opinion, but I think it's pretty close to accurate. The best program is the one that takes you, you like the most, and will allow whichever opportunities you are looking for (strong primary care, subspecialty strength, established hospitalist tracks, etc).
 
Is it true USC interviews a lot of people but mainly matches their own in the end ?
Just concerned I won't even have a chance with my low stats.
 
I thought I had written this down but apparently I didn't. Other than the 4+2 schedule at Vanderbilt, can someone let me know what the call schedule is like on wards itself? What about in the ICU? I've looked all over their website and can't find it. Thanks!
 
chrissyxf said:
I thought I had written this down but apparently I didn't. Other than the 4+2 schedule at Vanderbilt, can someone let me know what the call schedule is like on wards itself? What about in the ICU? I've looked all over their website and can't find it. Thanks!
Click to expand...

The call schedule shouldn't factor into your decision.
 
.
 
Last edited:
While it's not the only factor, when deciding between one or another program which is equal in other respects, the call schedule, for those of us with families, does, in fact, factor in. No, it's not the most important or even in the top 10 important things but I would still like to know.
 
boom-5420e6d8e9785.jpg
 
TheGauze said:
How would you rank the following programs based on prestige/how good they are?

St Luke roosevelt (NYC)
University of Kansas
UConn
St louis University
Lenox Hill
University of tennessee health science center
Sunny Upstate
Baystate Medical Center
Click to expand...

Baystate I hear is quite traditional East Coast mentality, and I heard it was quite rough from an attending that is from the East Coast, likes to drop f* bombs and make interns cry while at the same time is a really cool guy. If he thinks it's harsh... dunno know what to think. Especially given the PD reminded me of that attending a lot.

U of TN seemed a bit stuffy in Nashville and Knoxville. Didn't go to Memphis, that is a ROUGH patient population as I understand it and Memphis not a very nice city to live in from what I hear. Nashville is a fun town, and Knoxville while a small college town was quite likeable. I forget which program, I think it was Knoxville, was absolutely miniscule in size, like 8 residents. It almost seemed like the teaching program was an afterthought that way.

Of course the whole second hand opinion thing is useless but then again so is most of the word of mouth you'll ever get on a program that ain't from a current resident there. (and you can't just trust the interns' opinions on the place until at least December, before that they have no way to gauge anything, only past that and second years have any idea if things are any good as they should be or total ****).

But when it comes to community programs there's not a lot of info to go on anyway, and the program itself you can trust as much as a used car salesman. I think the feeling you get from the PD & Chief (even though they are not going to be chief by the time you roll in... you can actually always ask if they have their next chief picked out yet or not) says a lot, and if your perceptive the misery level on the faces of the residents.

Go to the interviews just to have enough places to rank in any case.
 
chrissyxf said:
I thought I had written this down but apparently I didn't. Other than the 4+2 schedule at Vanderbilt, can someone let me know what the call schedule is like on wards itself? What about in the ICU? I've looked all over their website and can't find it. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Vandy schedule for interns in the MICU is 5 in a row, alternating nights and days over your 2 week block. For example, you work 5 nights starting Monday-Friday, then come back in Monday morning for days. The night intern gets there at 7-8 pm and presents to everyone on rounds the next morning, then day intern takes over. You get something like 2.5 days off in between (I flew back home during one block for Halloween last year). You only have to present patients half of the time during your two weeks. There's three upper levels that rotate through 28 hr calls. For example, you come in Monday morning, leave Tuesday at 11 am, and come in half of the time for rounds on the third (pre-call) day to help out with transfers. 1 resident: 1 intern teams.

VA wards alternate admitting days - get there at 6am, leave at 7pm (later in the first part of the year) when you admit, and on off days you go home when the work is done (early afternoon). Days off have to be non-admitting days. 1 resident: 2 intern teams.

VUMC has a complicated but reasonable schedule for Morgan (gen med), but Rogers (subspecialty) services admit every day. Arrive 6-6:30, sign out 6-6:30. Your days off are very flexible on Rogers. 1:1 resident to intern ratio.
Overall, I like the schedule. I worked 20 hours weeks (non-ward block) a few times and 80 hr weeks a few times.
 
oncomine said:
I interviewed here; the place was nice, they have research options, clinical and basic science, if you want them; residents seemed happy

PD was not easy to talk to - obsessed with #'s (so it seemed)
Click to expand...

See what their fellowship match is like. It may not have the reputation of Penn within the Philly area but if your goal is a good fellowship in your specialty of choice you should inquire further into that.

I interviewed at a community program when I was applying for residency which balked and waffled a bit when I asked about fellowship competitiveness and they basically gave me a long winded answer that amounted to "if you work in research fellowships for three more years after finishing here then maybe you can match something somewhere". Huge red flag.
 
Anyone know if there are recommended hotels / special rates for NYU and where I can find that info?
 
Not sure where to ask this.. does anyone have a correct email address for Emory's program coordinator? I just emailed the PD and CC'd the PC, and it got rejected immediately as undeliverable. I used the one listed on FREIDA, yay.. thanks!
 
nola0716 said:
Not sure where to ask this.. does anyone have a correct email address for Emory's program coordinator? I just emailed the PD and CC'd the PC, and it got rejected immediately as undeliverable. I used the one listed on FREIDA, yay.. thanks!
Click to expand...
[email protected] and [email protected]. These are the two e-mails I could find in the info they sent us. I would send an LOI ASAP since the only open spot right now is on the 18th of Nov. Good luck!
 
Hi!

Anyone willing to switch a date at Hopkins - I have Dec. 4th currently but would really like Dec. 11.

Thanks!
 
^ really curious to see what the probability is that someone with a 12/11 interview date is a member of SDN, checks the website between now and then, checks this thread, and is willing to switch....

(Best of luck - and I'm not being snarky - I'm honestly curious about how those numbers would play out).
 
@newyorkgirl1
Since Hopkins uses interview broker, I would suggest you just list Dec 11 as your waitlist date (if you haven't done so already) and you would get switched automatically by interview broker if someone wanted to do the opposite switch. In fact I don't think even if you find anyone on the SDN board to do the switch you wanted, you can necessarily effect a manual switch since interview broker has a priority order in which they do switches (based on whether you already have a confirmed date, and when you registered for the waitlist).
 
How do these programs rank in terms of prestige? For fellowship matching into competitive subspecialty like cards or GI. No geographical preferences.

Baylor
Ohio State
Indiana
UIC
Loyola
Einstein Moses/Weiler
VCU
Albany
Tulane
USF Morsani
U Nevada Las Vegas
 
Very slow hospital. Why? Because there are limited rooms and low staff.
 
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