Stanford Vs. UCSF

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neuronal

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Hey guys,

What are the pros and cons to Stanford and UCSF? Which school would you choose? I don't plan on going into academic medicine.

Thanks.

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I don't plan on going into academic medicine.
UCSF, no brainer in my mind. I think Stanford is the place to be if you want to be a hardcore research physician, but UCSF is cheaper, in a better location, and from what I can tell (not much) has a slightly better reputation clinically. You can't go wrong though.
 
What i remember considering between the two:

Stanford - required research project. living in the burbs. beautiful campus adjacent to undergrad. amazing alumni connections and community.

UCSF - research if you want it. city living w/ the perks and drawbacks. smaller medical campuses throughout sf. brand new hospitals/research buildings in construction.
 
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They're two really different environments, and both probably equally respected.

UCSF is a standalone medical school. It has slightly older teaching facilities, a real urban environment, big, diverse hospitals, a cool P/F 1.5 year pre-clinical curriculum. It's also cheaper than Stanford (although, after financial aid this is uncertain?). Get your package before comparing.

Stanford is very research oriented, they match really well, it's suburban. The weather is better, but there's definitely less to do. It's also part of a larger university, so if you're interested in interdisciplinary things (Biotech, Business, Law, Philosophy, Ethics, etc.)....you'll have way more options. You can take extra courses for free in any department at that school assuming that you can find the time and a good reason.

I think if you crave that city environment, UCSF is where it's at. If you like the tranquility of the Stanford campus, the beautiful facilities, the university feel, then it's probably a better fit. I didn't interview at UCSF, but to be honest, I can't imagine their institution having better research or funding than Stanford built into the program. Stanford is definitely meant to breed leaders. I'm more of a city person myself, so I think I'd prefer UCSF. But, you can't go wrong with either.
 
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Although ranking shouldn't be a big issue, I just like to point out that UCSF gained 1 spot from 5th to 4th place this year while Stanford decreased from 6th to 11th, per US News research rankings ...
 
Although ranking shouldn't be a big issue, I just like to point out that UCSF gained 1 spot from 5th to 4th place this year while Stanford decreased from 6th to 11th, per US News research rankings ...

...and that means what exactly? There is currently a 4-way tie for 6th place. If Stanford jumps back into the 4-way tie for 6th place next year, does that mean they got a lot better all of a sudden?
 
Hey guys,

What are the pros and cons to Stanford and UCSF? Which school would you choose? I don't plan on going into academic medicine.

Thanks.
if you dont plan on academic medicine or hardcore research path, i dont see why you would consider stanford unless you have a full ride or something. That is all stanford does. Not that it matters much as far as matching is concerned but i have also heard problems about their clinical training and such and how they are now trying to revamp it. If you want to be a hardcore research doc then who cares but seeing as how you dont and you have UCSF i think this is pretty easy. For me UCSF is a school that i would never turn down and dont see how anyone else could really unless they have family obligations or a free ride at another top school.
 
if you dont plan on academic medicine or hardcore research path, i dont see why you would consider stanford unless you have a full ride or something. That is all stanford does. Not that it matters much as far as matching is concerned but i have also heard problems about their clinical training and such and how they are now trying to revamp it. If you want to be a hardcore research doc then who cares but seeing as how you dont and you have UCSF i think this is pretty easy. For me UCSF is a school that i would never turn down and dont see how anyone else could really unless they have family obligations or a free ride at another top school.

That is sort of unfair. People have this viewpoint of Stanford as a basic science powerhouse (which it is), but they actually choose a fair amount of students with non-science backgrounds to fill their class. I met a lot of students interested in international health, community health, etc. on interview day...so they're pretty open to you pursuing any path you want.

UCSF is also a research powerhouse and produces a ton of academic docs. Having said that, if you prefer urban location and don't care as much about research, then it doesn't matter too much. Both schools are equally respected, UCSF definitely has a better hospital and is in a cooler area. If you want the university feel (surrounded by law students, business students, undergrads, etc.) go with Stanford. Otherwise, if you want the city feel, med school campus, go with UCSF. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Here's a post from a Stanford med student (clearly Stanford biased, but still helpful)

-------
Yay, finals are over, and I'm still in med school (well until they grade everything...). Just kidding. They actually went really well, so nothing to worry about, and plus even if I don't pass, Stanford will make sure I get the tutors, etc. to make sure I do later, so it isn't a huge deal. It is all about making sure you know the material to be a great clinician, not scoring the highest.

So in terms of how we compare UCSF to our own program, I asked my friend, and he came back with a great answer, but much of it was already said by our Fellows classmates, so I'm going to distill it into something shorter. However, let me start off by saying if you have the opportunity to choose between UCSF and Stanford, you can't go wrong, both schools are wonderful, both schools have their strengths and weaknesses, and you'll just have to go with what feels right for you. We'd love to have you here, but also acknowledge that not every school is for everybody, so you have to just go with your gut. However, here's some differences we see:

1) Stanford is more interdisciplinary - We kinda talked about this already, but in his words, "UCSF is part of a health-sciences only institution whereas Stanford Med is part of a major multi-disciplinary university. For me this was the major distinction." Also, in terms of social things it is nice being at a whole university (hello football and other all campus functions!)

2) Stanford is way more chill - "Having a TRUE P/F grading system, with no internal rank or honors societies, lets you relax a bit and focus on the big picture. Also, having Wednesdays off lets you continue your interests outside of medicine -- like exercise, sleep, musical instrument, ceramics, or take classes at the main campus, explore a research interest, etc. -- and even allows for time to do something new and interesting like learn a new language. You can remain a whole person as a medical student here."

3) Stanford is smaller and more intimate - Specifically, he said, "Stanford has a very small class size, 86, so your voice is twice as loud as a medical student here. You will be heard. The resources are also much more available and personalized that I had expected, presumably due to a smaller school."

4) Stanford is cheaper - According to him, "Stanford was more affordable than any state school I was considering. The average debt is one of the lowest in the country -- mostly because they reward scholarly work and teaching with a generous tuition stipend."

You mentioned clinical training and research as potentially being a difference between us and UCSF, but I don't think either are huge differentials. Clinically, we get really great training through a unique program where from the very beginning, we have an advisor work with us biweekly on dealing with both normal, as well as potentially difficult patient encounters with real time practice and feedback with standardized and real patients. We also have a lot of variety in clinical locations here with diverse patient population, after all, if you just count population, we're bigger than San Francisco (and also bigger geographically, after all we don't confine ourselves to Palo Alto, we're all throughout Santa Clara County, though now that I saw that, I wonder if UCSF branches out of SF, I don't know). In terms of research, I think UCSF's research is probably pretty awesome too, so I personally don't distinguish the two institutions on clinical and research, but that could just be me.

Anyways, that's how we see ourselves in comparison to UCSF, which may or may not be true, it is just our perception heheh. I'm sure you could ask 100 different UCSF and Stanford students and get 100 different answers. Hope that helps still though! Let me know if anyone has any more questions, and as always, my fingers are crossed for everyone to get interview invites, on your interview day, and hearing back after interviews!!!!!!! Good luck everyone!!!
 
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if you dont plan on academic medicine or hardcore research path, i dont see why you would consider stanford unless you have a full ride or something. That is all stanford does. Not that it matters much as far as matching is concerned but i have also heard problems about their clinical training and such and how they are now trying to revamp it. If you want to be a hardcore research doc then who cares but seeing as how you dont and you have UCSF i think this is pretty easy. For me UCSF is a school that i would never turn down and dont see how anyone else could really unless they have family obligations or a free ride at another top school.

Stanford med student here, with some background at UCSF. I understand that many stereotypes like the ones you colorfully listed still exist, but I can tell you that they are bogus. At Stanford, you can really pick your own path. If you want to go into academic medicine, you can do that and there is support. If you want to do international work, you can do that (this is the largest student group on campus) and there is support. If you are interested in community engagement, you can do that and there is support too. Interested in Medical Education? Biomedical Ethics? Cost-Effectiveness? These are all possible. Most (if not all?) people DONT want to be "hardcore research docs". And by the way, when did a little research become a bad thing?
 
id personally choose stanford. im sick of the public school system.... :oops:
 
to MD east,

how would one differentiate oneself [stand out] for the match? Research, Step 1 scores? letters of recc.?

I honestly would feel less "eustress" without grades/competition.
 
to MD east,

how would one differentiate oneself [stand out] for the match? Research, Step 1 scores? letters of recc.?

I honestly would feel less "eustress" without grades/competition.

All of the above. Plus if you stand out in your classes, that will come across in your dean's letter even if they don't say you were ranked "x out of 86" As it is though, one look at Stanford's match list is enough to tell you that its not a problem.

As an aside, while UCSF and Stanford are ranked differently, they are both tied for 6th in residency director rankings, and Stanford is just 1 place behind UCSF in peer research assessment.

I'd agree with previous posters: Go to Stanford if you value the beautiful campus, suburban living, and interdisciplinary aspects of being in literally the epicenter of biotech, venture capital, and entrepreneurship. (I took an amazing medical entrepreneurship course at Stanford).

Go to UCSF if its cheaper (depending on financial aid at both, obviously), you want to live in SF (an amazing city), want a more professional, medicine-only experience separated from an undergrad campus, or view USNEWS rankings as the bible.

Personally, I'm a bit paranoid about UC med schools due to the imploding UC budget, meaning tuition is likely to increase and resources are likely to dry up a bit (though UCSF has plenty to spare). That could be just paranoia though.
 
to MD east,

how would one differentiate oneself [stand out] for the match? Research, Step 1 scores? letters of recc.?

I honestly would feel less "eustress" without grades/competition.

Stanford has honors in the clinic years now I think. just to let you know.
 
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I chose Stanford over UCSF and so did several of my incoming classmates. The clinical education, diversity, and financial aid are comparable at both schools. Both are P/F and both have the happiest students I saw on the interview trail. Supposedly a MUCH larger percentage of the class at Stanford elects to do research, so I felt that they would be better peers for me. It is true, however that Stanford has students that subscribe to all the focus areas that med students typically go for (research, community health, international health, social justice, entrepreneurship, etc.). Stanford has a lot of money to support these causes though, which I'm not sure UCSF can match. For instance, if a student is interested in taking a quarter to do international work, Stanford will pay you do do that. If you want to do research, Stanford will pay you do do that too. Also, remember that Stanford is a melting pot of acclaimed intellectualism in the US. They have people that are good at EVERYTHING, and as a medical student you are welcomed with open arms to their lectures, seminars, discussions, etc. You will be able to learn from HUNDREDS of people that are literally the best at their profession no matter what that profession is. Seriously, think of a discipline and then look it up.

Palo Alto is sunnier than the Parnassus campus of UCSF, which is a big deal to some people. However, I've heard that Mission Bay is pretty sunny. I know for a fact that Palo alto is greener (grass and palm trees). If you like outdoors stuff, Stanford is a win HANDS down. Conversely, if you like to eat out or enjoy the night life, UCSF has a great location for that.

Also, while Stanford is more "rural" than UCSF, it isn't a universe away. It's a 45 minute ride. You can enjoy all of the perks of San Francisco when you have time to do so (for example, Stanford first year students get Wednesdays off - yeah, that's right, the entire day!) and then go back to paradise when you're finished. The converse holds if you go to UCSF, but your daily scenery will be a city and not a lush place.
 
I don't know... I consider Golden Gate Park pretty lush, both in respect to its foliage and availability of drugs... :thumbup:. But you do miss out on that beautiful smell of white privilege that exudes from Palo Alto.

Haha jk- living almost halfway between both on the Peninsula I spend a fair amount of time at both and you really can't go wrong with either location. Really just personal preference.

That being said, let be quite serious here. Go BEARS!
 
As far as clinical experience goes - I'm a 1st year so I can tell you how it is. We have clinical sessions 2x a week, although some of them are devoted to learning about ethics, etc. We learn about physical exams 2nd quarter (that's where it gets interesting :p) We go to free clinics and we get our patients, practice physical exams & interviewing skills, present to residents/attendings like clinical students, and get feedback on how we can improve. It's a great learning experience. Plus, you get to fill out forms like a real doc :rolleyes: The free clinic experience is not mandatory so you can put in as much/little time as you want (but the old saying goes, the more you put into it, the more you get out of it).

One of the best things about Stanford is its flexibility. There was a 49ers football player that went to Stanford med and played football, and he didn't get that flexibility because he's some hot shot athlete. It's like that in general. Most people don't need that much flexibility, but it's good to know that your life is not over once you're in medical school. And the funding :love::love: PM me if you'd like to know my financial situation since I don't wanna blab on a public post.

Oh, and a lot of people at Stanford don't go into academics, although it's a great place to begin an academic career.
 
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Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions about UCSF. I know a little about Stanford (and was an undergrad there), but not really enough to make a fair comparison. I can really only speak to my experience at UCSF so far...
 
I just found out Stanford has an md/mba program... Does anyone know anything about that program?
 
I just found out Stanford has an md/mba program... Does anyone know anything about that program?

5 years. More money.

I remember the current medical student president ( who answers waitlist candidate emails) is a md/MBA student. I got the sense that at least a few students do it every year. I'm not particularly interested in paying more money (but I am interested in business), so I'd like to take a business classes while I'm there. I know Stanford offers that and you do have most Wednesdays off to potentially do this.
 
5 years. More money.

I remember the current medical student president ( who answers waitlist candidate emails) is a md/MBA student. I got the sense that at least a few students do it every year. I'm not particularly interested in paying more money (but I am interested in business), so I'd like to take a business classes while I'm there. I know Stanford offers that and you do have most Wednesdays off to potentially do this.

Do you know how hard it is to get into the MBA program? Did you hear anything about that at all?
 
Do you know how hard it is to get into the MBA program? Did you hear anything about that at all?

Although it's not a formal program, a Stanford student said that everyone who applied got in.
 
Wow there's a heavy Stanford bias to this thread. Will no UCSF student defend their school's honor (or do they think the school speaks for itself)?
 
Although it's not a formal program, a Stanford student said that everyone who applied got in.

Gosh...this md/mba deal might be the deciding factor for me. I have a few more hours to decide but wow. that is great. stanford's business school is top of the top.
 
Gosh...this md/mba deal might be the deciding factor for me. I have a few more hours to decide but wow. that is great. stanford's business school is top of the top.

While both are great schools, I would caution you to pick your school based off of a secondary degree. It will be easier no matter which school to get an MBA. Your MD is more important.
 
While both are great schools, I would caution you to pick your school based off of a secondary degree. It will be easier no matter which school to get an MBA. Your MD is more important.

Yeah, although I completely agree with you (MD being more important), I definitely think a combined degree in medicine and business will give me a fresh and unique perspective on how leadership and management skills can be used to better structure and organize healthcare-related systems. I personally want to use a business degree to lead global health projects, as I definitely see myself doing stuff internationally in the years to come. But yes, I highly regard the MD program of both schools and I'm very grateful for having the opportunity to make this choice.
 
Yeah, although I completely agree with you (MD being more important), I definitely think a combined degree in medicine and business will give me a fresh and unique perspective on how leadership and management skills can be used to better structure and organize healthcare-related systems. I personally want to use a business degree to lead global health projects, as I definitely see myself doing stuff internationally in the years to come. But yes, I highly regard the MD program of both schools and I'm very grateful for having the opportunity to make this choice.

I didn't mean to say an MBA for you wasn't important. But it's relatively easy to apply out later on for an MBA if you desire to do so.
 
Yeah, although I completely agree with you (MD being more important), I definitely think a combined degree in medicine and business will give me a fresh and unique perspective on how leadership and management skills can be used to better structure and organize healthcare-related systems. I personally want to use a business degree to lead global health projects, as I definitely see myself doing stuff internationally in the years to come. But yes, I highly regard the MD program of both schools and I'm very grateful for having the opportunity to make this choice.

I'm interested in business too, and if I go to Stanford I'll probably do a self-designed concentration that combines business with other things (I'm more interested in technology development...and how it can be done in altruistic way to make sure cool new advances are capable of reaching everyone, not the select few who can afford them). But do remember than an MBA is an extra year's worth of tuition...and I personally think that med school debt is enough.

You can get a executive MBA later in your career once you reach that point. Or, be like me, and potentially look for similar degrees abroad that can sometimes be free if you play your cards right :)
 
Ohhh...I'm curious too!
 
I'm also curious, they are both fantastic schools but have two very different vibes! I don't think ranking matters much when it comes to two top schools but when you walk around the diff campuses you know where your heart belongs ;)
 
I chose stanford! :) Good luck OneMcat! I hope you get my spot.
 
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