USC (Keck) vs Tufts

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Where Should I Go To School?

  • USC

    Votes: 92 67.2%
  • Tufts

    Votes: 45 32.8%

  • Total voters
    137
Hey RocDiva, I'm in a similar situation and it's driving me crazy! I am leaning toward the cheaper option, though- I thought about it as 4 years vs. the rest of my working career. For that much of a cost difference, I would consider "sacrificing" (not sure if this is the right word for someone who will be a med student in a city as amazing as Boston!) four years so I can have more freedom to choose my career path, which I will be stuck with for 30+ years. Congrats on two great acceptances, btw. I'm sure you'll be happy with your decision, whatever it may be, once you actually start school and begin to take advantage of all the amazing opportunities there 🙂

Good luck with your decision!!
 
Yeah, you should definitely plug your numbers into that AAMC calculator and really look at what it gives you. Figure out what your monthly payment would be and how long you'd have to be paying for each school. That should help put the money in black and white terms so you can make your most informed decision.
 
Hey RocDiva, I'm in a similar situation and it's driving me crazy! I am leaning toward the cheaper option, though- I thought about it as 4 years vs. the rest of my working career. For that much of a cost difference, I would consider "sacrificing" (not sure if this is the right word for someone who will be a med student in a city as amazing as Boston!) four years so I can have more freedom to choose my career path, which I will be stuck with for 30+ years. Congrats on two great acceptances, btw. I'm sure you'll be happy with your decision, whatever it may be, once you actually start school and begin to take advantage of all the amazing opportunities there 🙂

Good luck with your decision!!

I used similar logic to justify the other side. I'm willing to sacrifice four years further from my family, and a fair bit of extra money, for the advantages that Keck will give me in my training and the flexibility that being at a higher ranked school could provide in terms of career trajectory...

I think the pros and cons are endless
 
RocDiva4040, firstly congrats on your two acceptances. 😀

I'll echo others' suggestions by recommending you use the MedLoans Calculator to determine the manageability of your expected debt at USC using repayment options like IBR, PAYE, & PSLF given an estimated income. Factor your results into your school comparison to make a final decision between the two. Ultimately the decision is hugely personal—what are your career and life goals? What's important to you? Despite the monetary disincentive of attending USC, your careful comparison of the schools is a responsible act. Your happiness at a given school is, for obvious reasons, significant and should be weighted accordingly when choosing a school.
 
Objectively, my recommendation would be to attend Tufts due to the lower cost and proximity to your support system. Having such debt while being far from loved ones can be a huge source of stress that affects your attitude, performance, and motivations in a negative way. However, after reading through your responses, it seems like your heart is really set on the new experiences and opportunities that would come with attending USC... there is just the matter of convincing yourself that it is sensible.

With something as important as your career, it is easy to say that you need to be calculating and precise in choosing the option that makes the most sense. However, sometimes to be happy, you need to get out of your comfort zone. The saying goes "Fortune favors the bold" and I have found that to be very true, at least in establishing my career. You will be able to pay off your debts as a physician, even in less lucrative specialities - there are a variety of payment options and ways to live comfortably while making repayments, especially if you plan ahead.

Ultimately, my advice is to be conscious of what you would be giving up by choosing USC over Tufts, but don't let your fears dictate your every move. You'll never get ahead like that. Good luck in your decision!
 
Objectively, my recommendation would be to attend Tufts due to the lower cost and proximity to your support system. Having such debt while being far from loved ones can be a huge source of stress that affects your attitude, performance, and motivations in a negative way. However, after reading through your responses, it seems like your heart is really set on the new experiences and opportunities that would come with attending USC... there is just the matter of convincing yourself that it is sensible.

With something as important as your career, it is easy to say that you need to be calculating and precise in choosing the option that makes the most sense. However, sometimes to be happy, you need to get out of your comfort zone. The saying goes "Fortune favors the bold" and I have found that to be very true, at least in establishing my career. You will be able to pay off your debts as a physician, even in less lucrative specialities - there are a variety of payment options and ways to live comfortably while making repayments, especially if you plan ahead.

Ultimately, my advice is to be conscious of what you would be giving up by choosing USC over Tufts, but don't let your fears dictate your every move. You'll never get ahead like that. Good luck in your decision!

Thanks a lot for this!
 
I have literally never been more torn in my entire life. I recognize that I'm very fortunate to be in this position at all, but this week has been horrible. I keep changing my mind like every hour, and I've been having many sleepless nights 🙁 It seems like with either choice, comes a big negative.
 
I have literally never been more torn in my entire life. I recognize that I'm very fortunate to be in this position at all, but this week has been horrible. I keep changing my mind like every hour, and I've been having many sleepless nights 🙁 It seems like with either choice, comes a big negative.

Well, then focus on the negatives. Which will you come to regret more: living in Boston for another 4 years, or taking out an extra ~200k in loans? For me it would be the loans, but only you can make that decision for yourself.
 
Well, then focus on the negatives. Which will you come to regret more: living in Boston for another 4 years, or taking out an extra ~200k in loans? For me it would be the loans, but only you can make that decision for yourself.

I tried that tactic and came to the same conclusion actually. So then I emailed the dean at USC basically saying if I couldn't receive any aid then I thought it would be best for me to go to Tufts. Then I took a walk, and I just wasn't okay. I just kept freaking out thinking that Tufts is much lower in quality than USC (I'm not even sure that's completely true). I just feel so connected to USC, and I know it's maybe not "sensible", but the way I feel I can't put it into words. Plus I feel like making a decision based on money (when I would obviously still have a decent amount of money with the loans) kinda goes against my values. I've never been all about money.

But at the same time I know I'm in a mood lol. I'm sure an hour from now I'll be saying Tufts is not the much worse than USC, and I need to just save money. This is the WORST. I really feel like either way I lose.
 
I tried that tactic and came to the same conclusion actually. So then I emailed the dean at USC basically saying if I couldn't receive any aid then I thought it would be best for me to go to Tufts. Then I took a walk, and I just wasn't okay. I just kept freaking out thinking that Tufts is much lower in quality than USC (I'm not even sure that's completely true). I just feel so connected to USC, and I know it's maybe not "sensible", but the way I feel I can't put it into words. Plus I feel like making a decision based on money (when I would obviously still have a decent amount of money with the loans) kinda goes against my values. I've never been all about money.

But at the same time I know I'm in a mood lol. I'm sure an hour from now I'll be saying Tufts is not the much worse than USC, and I need to just save money. This is the WORST. I really feel like either way I lose.

I'm not sure USC is really that much better than tufts, especially if you want to do residency on the east coast. I don't have the current us news, but in an old thread here they posted the residency director scores in 2011 and USC and tufts both had scores of 3.6/5. I'm not sure if that has changed, but I doubt it has changed drastically.

Also, regarding the money, I'm also not someone who likes to make decisions based on money, but that's not necessarily how I see this. Instead I focus on all the things I will be able to do (help out my parents as they get older, donate more to charity) that I wouldn't be able to do with so much debt.
 
I know now USC is .2 higher than Tufts. And that's a good point about having more money later to do other things. But idk I don't wanna pick Tufts if it's gonna make me feel how I felt an hour ago. Like it just felt...wrong.
 
Don't stress too much. The difference between Keck and Tufts is not that huge. They're both middle to upper middle tiers. And it's only four years. If you do well at either school, you can go anywhere. Once you make a conscious decision, I promise you it'll be easier to accept it.
 
I'm gonna have to agree with what the others are saying. Many people (including myself) have tried to convince you to take the money and run, but you seem to consciously and subconsciously prefer USC. Go to USC and be happy. 🙂
 
yea they're both sooo expensive, but Tufts gave me a scholarship so Tufts it is.

:nod: 👍 Less debt will free you to consider opportunities later on that will not be possible with the larger debt. Best of luck. :luck::luck::turtle:
 
Go to USC.

From reading your application summary, you've already given so much to others. It's time to focus on you, you've earned it. There will be plenty of giving to others ahead of you in your career.

Wow this was scary accurate. Spot on. And thanks!
 
Your decision is taking place in bizarro med school admissions world, where Tufts is considered the financially grounded option. I just thought I'd point that out and mention how stunning that is to me.

I would be very, very hesitant about taking out $200k more debt just to be in California for medical school. Boston is an amazing city to study in. Yes, the weather is not the best but you should be able to deal with it. I moved to Boston for college and put up with the weather for 4 years. Afterward, I retreated to California for some sunshine and pleasantness.

You could do the same thing. Go to Tufts for 4 years, save $200k in principal (and $400k by the time your loans are paid off!!!) and just do your residency in/practice in California if you love the west coast.

You may or may not regret turning down USC for the 4 years you are in Boston. But you will regret the extra $200,000 in principal to attend USC for the next 18-33 years that you are still paying off loans, during which time you may wish to: 1) get married, 2) buy a house, 3) have children, 4) buy a family-friendly vehicle, 5) send you children to college, or 6) fill an entire room in your house with 400,000 one dollar bills and swim naked in the pile of cash.

You will be in a better position financially to do any of the 6 of those, by going to Tufts.... unless you happen to meet or marry a wealthy benefactor in that time.
 
Are you banking on a waitlist offer? It was unclear if you had already been accepted to Keck.
 
The difference in prestige between USC and Tufts is insignificant. I think it'd be foolish not to choose Tufts unless you have major reasons for wanting to stay in CA for residency and don't think you're capable of matching there from Tufts. Your 200k loans will double by the time you pay them off. Even if you'd prefer not to stay in Boston, is $100k a year not enough incentive to live there for 4 more years? Also, don't let your perception be skewed by what you witness on interview day, USC has to try hard to sell themselves with the costs they are charging with 0 aid. You will likely be happier in the Tufts environment than you think; few medical students actually end up regretting their choice even if they had initial "negative" impressions at the school.
 
So you guys brought up some great points about Tufts and cost, but I'd also like to add that I'm applying now to the NHSC Scholarship Program, which will fund all 4 years of med school in exchange for serving 4 years in an undeserved area (which is where I want to work anyways). The only thing is I won't know if I'm accepted into the program until after the May 15th deadline, but I really feel like I will get it. And if not, I can always apply again next year. Also I know there's loan repayment programs as well, since I plan on entering pursuing primary care. Does this fact change you guys' stance or nah? lol
 
So you guys brought up some great points about Tufts and cost, but I'd also like to add that I'm applying now to the NHSC Scholarship Program, which will fund all 4 years of med school in exchange for serving 4 years in an undeserved area (which is where I want to work anyways). The only thing is I won't know if I'm accepted into the program until after the May 15th deadline, but I really feel like I will get it. And if not, I can always apply again next year. Also I know there's loan repayment programs as well, since I plan on entering pursuing primary care. Does this fact change you guys' stance or nah? lol

It wouldn't change it for me. Are you willing to bet $400,000 of your future earnings that you will be accepted? Without knowing before May 15th, that's the question you have to ask yourself.

I would also be wary of any loan repayment program offered by the federal government, as they have demonstrated they are perfectly content to change the terms or amount they'll pay back if Congress gets in a tizzy over the budget. I don't think these programs will disappear all together, but I would be wary to quantify or bank on the amount they'll pay you.

But that's just me.

A friend of mine from high school went to Tufts for medical school and was just a so-so / average student (by his own admission) and landed a residency at UC Davis. I think he's doing a neurology residency now. If you want to go to California after Tufts, you can get there.

If you don't have parents who are in a position to potentially bail you out of financial problems, I would be vary wary of making a decision now that requires you to lose $400,000 of your future earnings as a primary care doctor -- especially if you don't have a concrete plan to cover the extra cost (scholarships, NHSC, repayment, etc.) before 5/15.
 
So you guys brought up some great points about Tufts and cost, but I'd also like to add that I'm applying now to the NHSC Scholarship Program, which will fund all 4 years of med school in exchange for serving 4 years in an undeserved area (which is where I want to work anyways). The only thing is I won't know if I'm accepted into the program until after the May 15th deadline, but I really feel like I will get it. And if not, I can always apply again next year. Also I know there's loan repayment programs as well, since I plan on entering pursuing primary care. Does this fact change you guys' stance or nah? lol

The fact that you want to go into primary care gives me mixed feelings. On the one hand, I feel you will have many opportunities for loan forgiveness/scholarship due to your interest being in line with federal interests... That said your future income potential is lower, which makes it a little more of a gamble.

I'd still choose USC, personally... but I don't think you will be actively upset four years down the road, regardless of your decision.
 
It wouldn't change it for me. Are you willing to bet $400,000 of your future earnings that you will be accepted? Without knowing before May 15th, that's the question you have to ask yourself.

I would also be wary of any loan repayment program offered by the federal government, as they have demonstrated they are perfectly content to change the terms or amount they'll pay back if Congress gets in a tizzy over the budget. I don't think these programs will disappear all together, but I would be wary to quantify or bank on the amount they'll pay you.

But that's just me.

A friend of mine from high school went to Tufts for medical school and was just a so-so / average student (by his own admission) and landed a residency at UC Davis. I think he's doing a neurology residency now. If you want to go to California after Tufts, you can get there.

If you don't have parents who are in a position to potentially bail you out of financial problems, I would be vary wary of making a decision now that requires you to lose $400,000 of your future earnings as a primary care doctor -- especially if you don't have a concrete plan to cover the extra cost (scholarships, NHSC, repayment, etc.) before 5/15.

This was really great advice and is making me strongly consider Tufts.
 
200k in loan which will become 400k by the time you pay it off because of interest. Then also keep in mind the lost opportunity, the ability to save for retirement early (and therefore needing to save less to reach the same goal), purchase house with bigger down payment instead of a bigger loan, etc etc. The cost will be over half a million dollar, if not more.

If you were to delay retirement saving by 10 years, you would have to save almost twice as much annually to reach the same goal, and end up contributing about 1.5x more than if you started early.

Source: http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2012/01/12/start-saving-early-catching-up-is-hard/#.U26Nwl6dL7E
 
So you guys brought up some great points about Tufts and cost, but I'd also like to add that I'm applying now to the NHSC Scholarship Program, which will fund all 4 years of med school in exchange for serving 4 years in an undeserved area (which is where I want to work anyways). The only thing is I won't know if I'm accepted into the program until after the May 15th deadline, but I really feel like I will get it. And if not, I can always apply again next year. Also I know there's loan repayment programs as well, since I plan on entering pursuing primary care. Does this fact change you guys' stance or nah? lol


The May 15 deadline is not a hard and fast rule. Tell the schools that finances are a major part of your decision, and you are waiting on more fin. aid information, and ask for an extension on the May 15 deadline. They should be fine with giving you one.
 
The May 15 deadline is not a hard and fast rule. Tell the schools that finances are a major part of your decision, and you are waiting on more fin. aid information, and ask for an extension on the May 15 deadline. They should be fine with giving you one.

Wow omgah really? I didn't know that. I guess I could try, but the program guidelines say they'll tell everyone by september 30th, so I might not know until after school starts.
 
Wow omgah really? I didn't know that. I guess I could try, but the program guidelines say they'll tell everyone by september 30th, so I might not know until after school starts.
Well September 30th is obviously too late as that is after orientation starts...but yes, the May 15 deadline is a recommendation. I believe schools have the right to rescind your acceptance after it if you hold multiple acceptances, but I doubt any of them would try that against a potentially litigious applicant. Try to get a sense of how likely you are to get the NHSC. If you are really interested in doing primary care and serving the underserved, you should not have much trouble financing your medical education. Go to USC, it's clearly where your heart lies.
 
copying and pasting a post that's relevant to your (and many others') decision. (link: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/need-help-choosing-a-medical-school.1070503/#post-15220563)

"I don't think the effect of the debt is quite that significant in this case.

Debt seems like it'll have the worst effect during residency. At that point, anything you're paying back is actually a significant percentage of your salary, and it thus has the potential to have a significant impact on your quality of life or at least your ability to save via a 401k, etc (losing 5k a year when you're making 50k pre-tax is a big drop).

When you're making 6 figures as an attending, debt seems like it will have a drastically smaller impact on your quality of life as your debt payments will 1) potentially be a smaller percentage of your overall salary anyway and/or 2) you'll still be making 6 figures, so even if you are paying the same percentage of your salary the larger absolute magnitude of your salary will help insulate your quality of life/ability to invest/save, etc.

Thus, for me, the calculus is broken into the short term (aka debt during residency) and long term (aka debt while an attending). One is significant to think about, the other a bit less so for the reasons I outlined above. As such, if you were comparing 0 debt to 100k, I would go the 0 debt almost every time (because in the former case you don't pay back anything during residency, giving you a significantly usable higher income but in the latter case you are), but if you're comparing 200k to 300k, I think you go with the school you like more. Yes the second example is still a 100k difference, but you'll be paying during residency with either choice, and while you'd pay longer with the 300k, once you become an attending I think the effects are felt less, or at least below a threshold of significance, so while it will be a hinderance to pay back longer I don't see it as decision-defining.

That's just me, and don't get me wrong, it's still 100k difference which I know is not trivial. Also full disclosure, I didn't even look at schools on the west coast, so I don't know anything about the specifics of USC vs. UCI - if everything else is equal, then I would still use cost as the final differentiator, but if you were leaning towards USC, I wouldn't."
 
copying and pasting a post that's relevant to your (and many others') decision. (link: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/need-help-choosing-a-medical-school.1070503/#post-15220563)

"I don't think the effect of the debt is quite that significant in this case.

Debt seems like it'll have the worst effect during residency. At that point, anything you're paying back is actually a significant percentage of your salary, and it thus has the potential to have a significant impact on your quality of life or at least your ability to save via a 401k, etc (losing 5k a year when you're making 50k pre-tax is a big drop).

When you're making 6 figures as an attending, debt seems like it will have a drastically smaller impact on your quality of life as your debt payments will 1) potentially be a smaller percentage of your overall salary anyway and/or 2) you'll still be making 6 figures, so even if you are paying the same percentage of your salary the larger absolute magnitude of your salary will help insulate your quality of life/ability to invest/save, etc.

Thus, for me, the calculus is broken into the short term (aka debt during residency) and long term (aka debt while an attending). One is significant to think about, the other a bit less so for the reasons I outlined above. As such, if you were comparing 0 debt to 100k, I would go the 0 debt almost every time (because in the former case you don't pay back anything during residency, giving you a significantly usable higher income but in the latter case you are), but if you're comparing 200k to 300k, I think you go with the school you like more. Yes the second example is still a 100k difference, but you'll be paying during residency with either choice, and while you'd pay longer with the 300k, once you become an attending I think the effects are felt less, or at least below a threshold of significance, so while it will be a hinderance to pay back longer I don't see it as decision-defining.

That's just me, and don't get me wrong, it's still 100k difference which I know is not trivial. Also full disclosure, I didn't even look at schools on the west coast, so I don't know anything about the specifics of USC vs. UCI - if everything else is equal, then I would still use cost as the final differentiator, but if you were leaning towards USC, I wouldn't."


To quote my post from the same thread:

This logic only works if you are living in a world where future earning potential is limitless and life is not finite. We don't live in that world.

Trivializing the debt difference by saying "it won't really affect your quality of life once you're an attending" is a horrible move, as debt compounds with time and inevitably leading to money out of your pocket (money that would certainly help when buying a home, planning vacations, raising children, etc...). Your quality of life may be fine once your an attending, but if you are not intelligent with your money it is essentially like handing the banks a Porsche... because you felt generous?

That said, I still chose USC over UCI... because I felt the cost difference was justified after careful deliberation, not because I decided the cost difference was insignificant in the long run.
 
copying and pasting a post that's relevant to your (and many others') decision. (link: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/need-help-choosing-a-medical-school.1070503/#post-15220563)

"I don't think the effect of the debt is quite that significant in this case.

Debt seems like it'll have the worst effect during residency. At that point, anything you're paying back is actually a significant percentage of your salary, and it thus has the potential to have a significant impact on your quality of life or at least your ability to save via a 401k, etc (losing 5k a year when you're making 50k pre-tax is a big drop).

When you're making 6 figures as an attending, debt seems like it will have a drastically smaller impact on your quality of life as your debt payments will 1) potentially be a smaller percentage of your overall salary anyway and/or 2) you'll still be making 6 figures, so even if you are paying the same percentage of your salary the larger absolute magnitude of your salary will help insulate your quality of life/ability to invest/save, etc.

Thus, for me, the calculus is broken into the short term (aka debt during residency) and long term (aka debt while an attending). One is significant to think about, the other a bit less so for the reasons I outlined above. As such, if you were comparing 0 debt to 100k, I would go the 0 debt almost every time (because in the former case you don't pay back anything during residency, giving you a significantly usable higher income but in the latter case you are), but if you're comparing 200k to 300k, I think you go with the school you like more. Yes the second example is still a 100k difference, but you'll be paying during residency with either choice, and while you'd pay longer with the 300k, once you become an attending I think the effects are felt less, or at least below a threshold of significance, so while it will be a hinderance to pay back longer I don't see it as decision-defining.

That's just me, and don't get me wrong, it's still 100k difference which I know is not trivial. Also full disclosure, I didn't even look at schools on the west coast, so I don't know anything about the specifics of USC vs. UCI - if everything else is equal, then I would still use cost as the final differentiator, but if you were leaning towards USC, I wouldn't."

Wow thanks a lot for this!
 
To quote my post from the same thread:

Thanks for this too. I get what you're saying. It's still not insignificant, but the fact that I'll still be making 6 figures is fine with me. All my life I've lived on very little, so I'm sure I'll be fine as long as I don't compare myself to other doctors lol. I think it might be worth it to be happy, to break outside of my comfort zone and to receive the best training available to me. Also I'm holding out hope for this scholarship program *fingers crossed*
 
So you guys brought up some great points about Tufts and cost, but I'd also like to add that I'm applying now to the NHSC Scholarship Program, which will fund all 4 years of med school in exchange for serving 4 years in an undeserved area (which is where I want to work anyways). The only thing is I won't know if I'm accepted into the program until after the May 15th deadline, but I really feel like I will get it. And if not, I can always apply again next year. Also I know there's loan repayment programs as well, since I plan on entering pursuing primary care. Does this fact change you guys' stance or nah? lol

While I would personally choose Tufts, if you're very confident about the scholarship (I assume you've done your research on how competitive they are), go to USC. If you don't manage to get it, you will have to deal with the debt another way, but it seems like USC's what you're pushing yourself strongly towards regardless and no one on SDN is qualified to dictate your life choices. You took a big financial risk when applying to medical schools, and you may see this risk as another endeavor worth fighting for. That said, I think you'd be happy at either institution, so congrats on your options!
 
Are you still considering Brown? They send a lot of people to the West Coast and are good with financial aid.

Edit: And I think the weather is a bit milder than Boston.
 
Are you still considering Brown? They send a lot of people to the West Coast and are good with financial aid.

Edit: And I think the weather is a bit milder than Boston.

I'm on the wait list there but I would still consider it if I got off.
 
Would you have done the NHSC if you ended up at Tufts? Not that I don't want you to go where you'll be happy, but I'm just curious if the decision to apply for that scholarship is more of a way to lower the cost of USC more than something you really want to do. I wouldn't want you to limit your options of residency to make USC a more viable option, but since that is clearly where your heart lies I think you should go for it. Do you think they'll notify you before any your schools start?
 
Would you have done the NHSC if you ended up at Tufts? Not that I don't want you to go where you'll be happy, but I'm just curious if the decision to apply for that scholarship is more of a way to lower the cost of USC more than something you really want to do. I wouldn't want you to limit your options of residency to make USC a more viable option, but since that is clearly where your heart lies I think you should go for it. Do you think they'll notify you before any your schools start?

Great question tbh I don't think I would do it, but I would consider it. I just wouldn't feel compelled to do it if I went to Tufts. But yea I think the scholarship is primarily a way to lower the cost. I have no idea if they'll let me know before school starts, but I hope so.
 
So I want to sincerely thank everyone who's contributed to this thread. There were so many good points brought up for both Tufts and USC, but in the end I chose......USC!! I decided to just go with my heart, and I feel really excited right now. It's a sharp contrast from how I felt after deciding on Tufts. I am hoping that I get the scholarship, but I am prepared for any situation. Sometimes you gotta take a leap of faith 🙂
 
So I want to sincerely thank everyone who's contributed to this thread. There were so many good points brought up for both Tufts and USC, but in the end I chose......USC!! I decided to just go with my heart, and I feel really excited right now. It's a sharp contrast from how I felt after deciding on Tufts. I am hoping that I get the scholarship, but I am prepared for any situation. Sometimes you gotta take a leap of faith 🙂
Welcome aboard!
 
Top