2012-2013 Case Western Reserve University Application Thread

University Program Secondary said:

.Required Essay: Greatest Challenge (3500 chars).

.The admissions committee is interested in gaining more insight into you as a person. Please describe the greatest personal challenge you have faced which you feel has helped to shape you as a person. Examples may include a time when you felt you were "in over your head," or a time when you felt personally criticized. You may also discuss a moral or ethical dilemma, a situation of personal adversity, or a hurdle in your life that you worked hard to overcome. Please include how you got through the experience and what you may have learned about yourself..

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.Optional Scholarly Essay (3500 chars).

.One of the four pillars of the Western Reserve Curriculum is Research and Scholarship. Although research is not a pre-requisite requirement for the University Track, if you have participated in research or another scholarly project please tell us about it. Describe your experience, including the question you pursued and how you approached it, your results and interpretation of the results, and most importantly, any thoughts about what this experience meant to you. Remember that research is broad-based and can include such projects as a senior capstone or a thesis and can include both medical and non-medically-related investigations..


.Small Group Essay (300-1000 chars).

.If you were working on a small group project and you thought that another student wasn't carrying their load, how would you handle it?.

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College Program (CCLCM) Secondary said:

Research Essay:

(Required for all applicants to CCLCM) Please describe the hypothesis of your research, why the methods were selected to answer that hypothesis, your results and interpretation of your results with respect to future findings. If you have not participated in research or scholarly work, please indicate so in the text area below.

Please limit your response to 1 page (about 3,500 characters), and leave a blank line between paragraphs.

Areas of Improvement Essay:

(Required for all applicants to CCLCM) Each year our students target for themselves areas of improvement. Other than the acquisition of new knowledge, what personal area do you think you have that could use strength? Design a plan as to how you could improve it.

Please limit your response to 500-1000 characters, and leave a blank line between paragraphs.

Criticism and Feedback Essay:

(Required for all applicants to CCLCM) Tell us about a time when you received unexpected criticism or negative feedback. How did you react? What did you do?

Please limit your response to 500-1000 characters, and leave a blank line between paragraphs.

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Auriga said:

Hi guys! Welcome to Case's application thread!

Since this is early on the first page, I decided to create a FAQ to answer what we think are particularly important things that come up often in later pages. I'll update it periodically. Those with moderators' magical wands are free to edit at will.
This is NOT comprehensive. Please feel free to ask questions anytime!

(I.)There are two tracks at Case: the University Program (UP), and the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine (CCLCM) program.

Although when people say "Case," they're frequently referring to the UP, we're one big happy family here. So when you have questions about something specific to one program or another, please specify which (UP or CCLCM). That helps keep things from becoming confusing!

(II.) Common to both programs:

(A.) PBL-style learning: Myuu gives a great explanation in a post below. Linked here:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11024582&postcount=12

(B.) Free classes (including Masters Degrees!) at Case. Except for Law, Dental, and Nursing degrees. Small fees apply for Masters Degrees. There are quite a few students from both UP and CCLCM who choose to pursue a second degree. Common ones are listed below.
Some students try to cram it all in at once, to finish during the 4 years (5 for CCLCM). Most take an extra year to complete the requirements for the degree.
(1.) Masters of Anatomy (most do finish in the 4 years)
(2.) Masters in Public Health (MPH)
(3.) Masters in Bioethics
(4.) M.S. in whatever. vc7777 is doing this.

(III.) Specific to UP: The University Program is a 4 year program with approx. 166 students, including 8 MSTP students.
MSTP is tuition-free; the regular UP is the student's responsibility (although there are many financial aid options, scholarships, and grants offered.)
(A.) MSTP (Medical Scientists Training Program) is an 8 year program that leads to an M.D. and a Ph.D.
The first 2 pre-clinical years are spent 100% with your fellow matriculating UP class. The following ~4 years are spent completing requirements for the Ph.D. The last 2 clinical years are spent with UP and CCLCM students who will graduate the same year as you.


(IV.) Specific to CCLCM: CCLCM is a 5 year program aimed at training physician scientists. There are 32 students per class. Tuition is paid for by the program, not the student.

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vc7777 said:

citrusguy2010 said:

is the CCLCM program only for basic sciences? or would public health be considered in there too?

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Hi! I'm Vc7777, I am a (soon to be) second year at CCLCM, which is also called the College program (CP) at Case. I am also a rocket scientist, just so you know. I may some day be a rocket-surgeon. Stay tuned to find out.

CCLCM is not just basic sciences. Translational, and clinical are also actively pursued. As for Public Health, you can get an MPH (masters of public health) while you are here, although it is one of the most labor intensive courses of study (based on shear number of classes). You can do public health related research as part of your program here at CCLCM.

Hope that helps.


What is CCLCM?
“The mission of the CCLCM is "to educate a limited number of highly qualified persons who seek to become physician investigators and scientists committed to the advancement of biomedical research and clinical practice."

“In 2002, the Cleveland Clinic and Case Western Reserve University formed an historic partnership to establish the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine of CWRU (CCLCM) – an innovative medical school program with a mission to train physician investigators. Every aspect of CCLCM is focused on achieving this goal - from admissions criteria and supportive financial aid to curriculum design and student assessment. Students develop the skills of self-directed learning critical for success as a physician and an investigator.” -CCLCM website.

Take a look at our website, and see if this interests you. We train completely separately our first two years from our UP comrades. No grades, no class ranking, and the smallest class I know of (32). We have a portfolio based system of promotion each year.

After our second year, we have the same rights and privileges as the rest of the Case students. CCLCM has an extra year, but the masters degree is free-of-charge if you want it. We are committed to training physician investigators. It is sort of a happy medium between a traditional medical school curriculum and a Mud-phud (MD/PhD) track (which by the way CWRU also has). -vc7777

Is the CCLCM program only for basic sciences? or would public health / other research focuses be considered in there too?
At CCLCM “Research” is broadly defined and can include investigations into the business of healthcare, the delivery of medicine, epidemiology, clinical, translational, or basic sciences (among many others). Public health, nutrition, biomedical engineering, and similar areas are all fair game.

You must do two summers (before your first and second years) in basic and clinical research. No getting out of that. This is to ensure everyone has exposure to both major forms of medical research before graduation.

CCLCM is very personalized after your second year, and the school they will consider any reasonable research pursuit (assuming funding, PI credentials, sound proposals, etc. etc.). The other cool thing is that you do not have to commit until nearing your research year to any given path. -vc7777

How much research do I need to be a competitive applicant to CCLCM?
CCLCM attracts a lot of the same people who apply to MD/PhD programs, including the Case MSTP. I would say that at least one year of part-time research experience is the minimum for CCLCM. The ideal would be to have 3+ years of research experience. More important than the length of time you spend doing research is your role in the research. Washing dishes and running assays without understanding what you're doing for five years isn't very valuable. You should be able to explain the rationale, hypothesis, results, interpretation of data, etc. related to your project. -CCLCMer

How many letters do I need for CCLCM?
You need at least on letter from faculty member who can attest to your performance within a research setting. This likely will be beyond you “usual” letters (or committee letter) for MD-only applications.

What’s a typical schedule like for a first year at CCLCM?
A week of Vc7777's 1st year

What’s the match list for CCLCM like?
[link to CCLCM match list]
Please keep in mind that the number of people going into a particular residency is highly variable at any school. If there are more people interested in a particular specialty, there will be more matches. I will say that our track record of alumni success should convince you that Case in general and CCLCM in particular will not limit you.

Can you apply CCLCM and UP?
You can apply to both, or just to one or the other. Please note, our admissions process is entirely separate after the secondary. If you apply to both, you will receive two independent outcomes, meaning there are four possibilities:

Accepted both
Rejected both
Accepted UP not CP
Accepted CP not UP

(Please note these are not in any particular order) -vc7777

For admissions purposes, the two programs function quasi independently, almost as if they were two separate med schools. There are two separate admissions offices and two separate adcomms. It is possible to be invited to interview by one program and not the other, and it is also possible to be accepted to one program and rejected by the other. - CCLCMer

If I want to apply to CCLCM and Case for MD, is that same as two different applications, or is it just two different secondaries (one for CCLCM and one for Case MD)? I just want to know the answer mainly because of cost.
You must select Case on your primary. That is, there is no separate checkbox on the primary for CCLCM. However, when you receive your secondary for CWRU, you can elect to apply to CCLCM only, Case only, or both programs. There is no requirement that you must apply to the UP if you are only interested in the CP. - vc7777

There is NO added cost to applying to both, it's all one application. Also, if you do decide to apply to CCLCM, there will be more essays. More bang for your buck! - PhNerd1105

How much segregation and/or integration there is between the regular MD program, the CCLCM program, and the MSTP?
As for CCLCM, we (UP students) actually don't interact with them very much. The campuses are separate, by a 20 minute walk or 5-10 min drive, and our programs are different. It's not that there's no love, it's that we don't have much opportunity. Unless we do on our own. Which is something that the student council (which is comprised of both UP and CCLCM) is working on changing! - Auriga

Yes, we train entirely separately from the UP students. Our programs have different missions and different overall formats for the basic science years. -vc7777

After Step 1 (generally taken at the end of second year), students from both programs do rotations and research together, and the MSTP students rotate with the rest of us as well. The only differences during rotations are that CCLCM students continue to be graded P/F, and taking the shelf exams is optional for us. UP/MSTP students are required to take the shelfs, and they have an H/HP/P/F type of grading system. But students from all three programs rotate at all of the Case-affiliated hospitals, work on the same teams on the wards, attend clinical lectures together, etc. - CCLCMer

Does CCLCM pay for tuition, like MSTP?
CCLCM covers the tuition for the four years of medical school, plus the costs of (optional) masters classes at Case. In addition, a laptop, parking permits, and gym membership are provided at no cost. During your research year (either your 3rd of 4th year) you must find an independent source of funding to cover your research. Given the size and age of our program, we have had impressive success with securing named fellowships/research grants for many of our students, so this should not be a concern at time of application.

What percentage of people in the CCLCM program go for an additional degree?
The number of students who seek other degrees is highly variable. Currently about HALF of my class (!!) is enrolled in CRSP. Four others are taking MPH classes. Some of the engineers are considering the biomedical degree. But take all of this with a grain of salt - this is a personal decision. Just rest assured that CCLCM has cranked out many students with a masters degrees. -vc7777

Many start out planning to do an MS, but few actually finish. In my class, about 1/4 of us got MSes. Four or five of us did CRSP, one person did BME, one did an MPH. There may have been one or two others. -CCLCMer

What options are there for figuring out *exactly* what you want to do?
I’ll refer you to:

cclcm.ccf.org

There is a guest login option. Login as "guest" and password "guest"
on the Right hand banner is a "Master's Degree Options" this is a list of masters options currently available.

Btw, this is our educational portal. It shows students a personalized schedule (I really mean personalized...room assignments, special preceptorships, etc...). This calendar is now google linked...which is sweet b/c is work seamlessly with my android phone. -vc7777

Depends on when you mean. Once you've decided to matriculate to CCLCM, the school will ask you what areas of basic research you are interested in. You will give a few choices, and they will assign you a researcher for your first summer, which is the basic science summer. For the second (clinical research) summer, students typically choose their own mentor. Likewise for the research year.

You have a ton of exposure to potential mentors during med school. The first block of both preclinical years (first and second) is pretty much all research-oriented. During the rest of the first and second years, you have a weekly research seminar. You also can contact PIs on your own to set up research projects. In addition, you are not limited to doing research at CCF. You can do research at any of the Case-affiliated centers, including the Case med school, University Hospitals, Rainbow Babies, Metro (county hospital), and the VA. If you're interested in geriatrics, there will be plenty of opportunities for you. Likewise in onc. -CCLCMer

Is the interview format the same regardless of whether I'm applying for CP/UP? Are CP applicants interviewed at the same time as UP applicants? or do they get interviewed first?

The CP office doesn't start reviewing applications until later, so CP-only and UP-CP applicants will interview later than people who just apply UP. In terms of actual interview days, your CP interview will be the day before your UP interview. Can't have you spending loads of cash to come here twice, after all. - Myuu

I agree with Myuu, but I suspect this to be true mainly near the beginning of the interview season. But the message should be clear: don't freak out if people who applied AFTER you are getting interview spots for UP before you. It doesn't mean you are not being considered. -vc7777

What is the CP interview format, is it separate from the UP?
If you are invited to interview by both programs, you will have two completely separate interview days. The CCLCM interview day is conducted at CCF, and the UP interview day is conducted at Case, which is about a mile away. The admissions offices will try to coordinate your interview days back-to-back so that you don't have to make two separate trips to Cleveland. Case interviews UP candidates on M-T-F, and CCLCM interviews on M-Th-F, so generally you would either do M/T or Th/F. - CCLCMer

There are three CCLCM interviews, all one-on-one. Two are with faculty and one with a student. Typically, one faculty interviewer will focus more on your research, while the other will focus more on the medicine side. -CCLCMer

I want to apply to both programs (Case and CCLCM), but in AMCAS do I select MD only or the MD/Masters when adding the school?
MD-only unless you know already that you're applying to one of your grad programs as well. - Myuu
Has there been Canadians/other international folks at CCLCM? Just curious.
We have a strong showing of international students. We’ve even accepted Canadians, too. (that’s a joke, btw) -vc7777

Yes. My class had three Canadians and three people from other countries (Japan, Ghana, and India). -CCLCMer

Do you think a phd applying would be weird or is that not uncommon?
Your app will definitely NOT be tossed if you have a PhD, and it will NOT be weird to apply if you have a PhD. There are several students with PhDs who have been accepted and matriculated--we had two people with PhDs in my class, which may not sound like many until you consider that the entire class was only 32 people! For seeing the MS options, the best thing to do is to go to the portal like vc7777 suggested above. -CCLCMer

I have a classmate with a PharmD, and I believe other PhDs were accepted but did not attend. -vc7777

What kind of research and where can you do it at CCLCM?
Sky’s the limit for your full research year. You are not limited to just our own institution, but nearly everything in and around Cleveland - (MetroHealth, Univ. Hospital, Rainbow Babies, The VA, Case proper). In addition, if you have funding and an establish program you can perform your research year at away institutions (even international) - however note Dr. Young (our Dean) has set the bar reasonably higher for conducting your research year away from Cleveland. Note that your first two summer research experiences MUST be done around Cleveland (because you also have courses to take during the summers). For the summer before your first year, a compendium is published with potential PIs and their corresponding research interests. You can indicate preferences, however the staff will assign you to one of them before you arrive. -vc7777

When do interviews start?
Interviews to my knowledge will start around beginning of September. I will confirm when the schedule is available -vc7777

Is there anything you really don't like about the CCLCM program? If you had to pick again, would you definitely stay with CCLCM? Also, do you like the more independent learning style/group work approach?
vc7777's response
CCLCMer's response

And what's the gunner population like?
vc7777's response
CCLCMer's response

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berriesandcream said:

what exactly are secondary and interviews based on? I see from the MSAR data the mean is 3.8/35, and I have nowhere near there. Totally wanna apply, but I'm trying to look at the realistic options... Completely interested and loving the school though

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vc7777 said:

Apply because you love us. Tell us how you love us and how you will make our class more interesting.

[...]

Interesting people get into Case because they are interesting AND because we feel that they can succeed here. It is a tough question to answer - I think so many factors play into a "successful" application leading to an interview. As banal as it may sound: We have the essays on the secondary because we want to KNOW the responses. I mean, there were (are?) some schools without a secondary when I applied. These schools didn't want additional information before an interview decision was made. I mention this as proof that there is no requirement for schools to put essays on a secondary. So, our essays are there because we want to know the answers. They are important to the adcom, and I suggest you reply in a thoughtful and professional manner.

As for grades and MCAT scores, I can only give you anecdotal evidence from friends and myself. Averages are the average. What neither you nor I know is the standard deviation or other statistical methods of characterizing the cohort. This isn't Lake Woebegone, that I can tell you. We are not all above the average.

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Cortisolic said:

Case is one of my top schools, mostly because of the CCLCM option. I know this thread is Case specific but does anyone know if there are other schools that offer similar programs?

I.E. happy medium between MD and MD/PhD?

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Cortisolic said:

Case is one of my top schools, mostly because of the CCLCM option. I know this thread is Case specific but does anyone know if there are other schools that offer similar programs?

I.E. happy medium between MD and MD/PhD?

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Clumpofstuff said:

Case is one of my top choices
How is living in Cleveland?

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ccfman1991 said:

I was born and raised in the good ol' 216! Show the hometown kid some love, Case!
Love,
ccfman

Myuu, what's the secret to getting into Case/CCLCM?

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Clumpofstuff said:

Case is one of my top choices
How is living in Cleveland?

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ccfman1991 said:

I was born and raised in the good ol' 216! Show the hometown kid some love, Case!
Love,
ccfman

Myuu, what's the secret to getting into Case/CCLCM?

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Cortisolic said:

Case is one of my top schools, mostly because of the CCLCM option. I know this thread is Case specific but does anyone know if there are other schools that offer similar programs?

I.E. happy medium between MD and MD/PhD?

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Clumpofstuff said:

I go to a similar located school weather-wise
So what drew you to Case?

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TheShaker said:

Wait, what do you for your classes if there are no exams? How do you know if you advance to the next class?

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ccfman1991 said:

I was born and raised in the good ol' 216! Show the hometown kid some love, Case!
Love,
ccfman

Myuu, what's the secret to getting into Case/CCLCM?

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ccfman1991 said:

the prompt for the research question from case's secondary sounds VERY similar to the research prompt from the CCLCM secondary. Can I write the same thing for both? They seem to be asking for the same thing...

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Clumpofstuff said:

Could any of the current med students give like an example week's schedule or something like that?
Like whats required or so on

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• 0800 You get your IQ case(s) for the week
• 1000 Lecture A (attendance not mandatory unless otherwise specified, which is rare)
• 1100 Lecture B
• 1200 Do whatever you want

• 0800 Foundations of clinical medicine (i.e. touchy-feely tuesdays)
• 1000 Lecture A
• 1100 Lecture B
• 1200 Go play Diablo 3 (but also do IQ research)

• 0800 IQ: Discuss first case
• 1000 Lecture A
• 1100 Lecture B
• 1200 Go do something super enjoyable. Stay out late, even.

• 0800 Sleep in
• 0900 Mmmm sleeeeep.
• 1000 Roll over
• 1100 ???
• 1200 Profit
• You might also have some things left to do. Now would be a good time to do them.
• Optional: There are some review sessions of the week's material at school, if you'd like to further enrich your knowledge.

• 0800 IQ: Discuss second case.
• 1000 Lecture A
• 1100 Lecture B
• 1200 Do whatever you want, although this is a good time to get rid of the MCQs and SEQs for this week.

TheShaker said:

Wait, what do you for your classes if there are no exams? How do you know if you advance to the next class?

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Metallica1936 said:

There are exams for classes, and they are almost all essay exams. I feel that essay tests force you to really internalize the material more efficiently and they give you a bit more wiggle room with your answers.

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Myuu said:

Says the guy who hasn't taken any of them.

It's true though. It definitely gives you a better chance to communicate your understanding of the concepts at hand. Demonstrating mastery is always a plus. I find it substantially less tempting to go back and change an answer. It's also impossible to choose an answer by accident this way.

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Myuu said:

The first year generally goes as follows (university program):

Monday

• 0800 You get your IQ case(s) for the week
• 1000 Lecture A (attendance not mandatory unless otherwise specified, which is rare)
• 1100 Lecture B
• 1200 Do whatever you want

Tuesday

• 0800 Foundations of clinical medicine (i.e. touchy-feely tuesdays)
• 1000 Lecture A
• 1100 Lecture B
• 1200 Go play Diablo 3 (but also do IQ research)

Wednesday

• 0800 IQ: Discuss first case
• 1000 Lecture A
• 1100 Lecture B
• 1200 Go do something super enjoyable. Stay out late, even.

Thursday

• 0800 Sleep in
• 0900 Mmmm sleeeeep.
• 1000 Roll over
• 1100 ???
• 1200 Profit
• You might also have some things left to do. Now would be a good time to do them.
• Optional: There are some review sessions of the week's material at school, if you'd like to further enrich your knowledge.

Friday

• 0800 IQ: Discuss second case.
• 1000 Lecture A
• 1100 Lecture B
• 1200 Do whatever you want, although this is a good time to get rid of the MCQs and SEQs for this week.

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Myuu said:

The first year generally goes as follows (university program):

Monday

• 0800 You get your IQ case(s) for the week
• 1000 Lecture A (attendance not mandatory unless otherwise specified, which is rare)
• 1100 Lecture B
• 1200 Do whatever you want

Tuesday

• 0800 Foundations of clinical medicine (i.e. touchy-feely tuesdays)
• 1000 Lecture A
• 1100 Lecture B
• 1200 Go play Diablo 3 (but also do IQ research)

Wednesday

• 0800 IQ: Discuss first case
• 1000 Lecture A
• 1100 Lecture B
• 1200 Go do something super enjoyable. Stay out late, even.

Thursday

• 0800 Sleep in
• 0900 Mmmm sleeeeep.
• 1000 Roll over
• 1100 ???
• 1200 Profit
• You might also have some things left to do. Now would be a good time to do them.
• Optional: There are some review sessions of the week's material at school, if you'd like to further enrich your knowledge.

Friday

• 0800 IQ: Discuss second case.
• 1000 Lecture A
• 1100 Lecture B
• 1200 Do whatever you want, although this is a good time to get rid of the MCQs and SEQs for this week.

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Fopo said:

Do you think they'd let me substitute golfing, biking, disc golfing, or some other similar activity for the Tuesday afternoon Diablo 3 session? :-D

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zeppelinpage4 said:

I'm trying to decide whether to apply or not. This seems like a fantastic program, but I have an 8 in verbal. Anyone know if I would get screened out, or just rejected based off of that?

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CCLCMer said:

No. Both programs are non-screening. If you think you'd be interested in attending either or both, you should apply.

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hurlygrly07 said:

does it hurt your case to apply to only CCLM and not UP? Is this frowned upon?
thanks.

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vc7777 said:

3) Top posters must insert an image and declare their allegiance to Ninjas or Pirates (or Robot Unicorns is you are CCLCMer ). May the best team win COLOR=White(PIRATES-YARRR!)COLOR.


P.S. I'm Vc7777, a rising MS3 over at CCLCM. Welcome to our new thread. The CCLCM gang is here to answer your questions. I usually hang out over in the Nontrad forum, but have been known to post on rare ocassion here.

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wholeheartedly said:

Gee, who would do that?! Myuu?

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wholeheartedly said:

Gee, who would do that?! Myuu?

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Myuu said:

I saw that, you know.

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wholeheartedly said:

I'll bite, what do you think about your CCLCM training now that you've almost got your first year of residency behind you?

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CCLCMer said:

But when you're choosing a med school, what you want to do is take out the least amount of school loans possible, and focus on the kind of clinical training you'll get as an MS3. Those two things are way more important than any preclinical curricular innovations a school may tout. Whether you do PBL or lectures or home study for the first two years of medical school doesn't ultimately matter. You'll learn the same science anywhere. What matters is getting good hands-on clinical experience (which we do at Case/CCLCM), and minimizing your debt. So when you interview, ask about third year, not first or second year. What hospitals do students rotate at? What do they get to do? How are rotations chosen? How are students graded as MS3s? What does the school do to support students in the Match? Likewise, pay more attention to financial aid packages than you do to which kind of preclinical curriculum you think will make you "happy." If you keep those two priorities in mind as a pre-med, you will be a lot happier as an intern.

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