2012-2013 Northwestern University Application Thread

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Status
Not open for further replies.
I, too, am an M1 at Feinberg and someone pointed me to this thread because of all the talk about the new curriculum. After reading the post by @NtsFrmUndrgrnd I felt the need to add another perspective. I actually started at FSM last year but for various reasons the year was interrupted. So I have perspective on what the curriculum was like, what it's like now, and can tell you my views on the changes. I will go into specifics, but I want to emphasize that despite the glitches/problems/etc. inherent with a new curriculum, I enjoy this curriculum SO much more than the previous one. I feel like I am getting a better education, the material is WAY more interesting, integrated, and clinically relevant, and truthfully, this curriculum has really enabled our class to bond. (Whether that's because we're complaining about this or that or because of the inherent structure of the curriculum, I don't know - probably both).

Specifics:
I agree with all of the positives mentioned in other posts. But I really want to stress how much better it is to have all the normal physiology/anatomy/etc. presented together with the pathophysiology. For one, it's a heck of a lot more enjoyable to study. It's hard to motivate when you are studying an organ's physiology in isolation. It's hard to see the relevance and a lot of times I was thinking, so what? But when you are learning the path simultaneously, the physiology just makes sense. It's not only more interesting, but honestly I think it eliminates some of the burden of memorization because you can think through the pathogenesis rather than memorizing that disease X is characterized by a, b, and c.

On top of that, it makes the clinical exposure we get so much richer. Last year, we would learn physical exam skills relevant to the organ we were studying. But how are you supposed to recognize, appreciate, and understand abnormal exam findings when you haven't learned the possible disease states it represents? I can tell you, it feels very superficial. We also have preceptorships this year. While I will say that everyone's experience is different (depending on what specialty their preceptor is, etc.), it's so cool to be able to walk out of science lecture and into the hospital where you actually SEE the disease you just learned about. Yes, M2s at every school get this experience. But we get it earlier. Finally, we have ~1.5 hours a week of clinical medicine lecture. One of these hours is called clinical correlations. A real patient comes in and talks about their experience with a disease we are learning about. I know I speak for many when I say it's incredible.

Now to the negatives.

We do have a lot of class that seems like nonsense. Honestly, most people are probably browsing the internet, looking at flashcards, or whatever during Health & Society. It feels like a lot of redundant material that does not require that much time to present. I whine like everyone else that it's required. But it's only 2 hours a week. They have scaled it back drastically from the beginning of the year.

In terms of Professional Development: the "corporate personality workshop" is truthfully a silly leadership lecture series. Do I pay attention? No. Do I wish I could leave? Yes. But it's maybe once a month. The rest of Professional Development I truthfully feel is similar to what you'd get at any other school (and I have friends at other med schools so this isn't coming from no where). Besides, we had ethics 2 hours a week last year. It's not some "fluffy nonsense" that was invented for this curriculum.

AOSC: I'll be blunt, it was poorly planned. The communication has been terrible and expectations are unclear. I would not, however, say that it is a joke nor would I say it will weaken our residency applications. There are rigid constraints and I know that has interfered with some people's projects. But so much of this is because it's the first year and honestly, the people running AOSC don't even really know what's going on. I believe most of this is due to the fact that it's the first year and stuff is going to go wrong. But you should know that many of these problems will be improved next year. And I'm really excited about my project.

I'm on one of the curriculum review committees and I will tell you that the faculty are listening to our complaints and striving to make positive changes. Are we going to get all the changes we want? No. Are some of the people who designed the curriculum too idealistic? Yes. But it's honestly because they care (cheesy, yes). They have spent years on this curriculum. They don't want it to fail. And I've read every one of my classmates' evaluations. @NtsFrmUndrgrnd completely misrepresents the overall sentiment.

Like I said, I am FAR happier with this curriculum than the last. I think it's making me a stronger student and will ultimately make me a better residency applicant and a better physician. Keep in mind that some of the complaints and frustrations that have been voiced are due to the fact that this is the first year of a new curriculum. I would bet that next year things will run a lot smoother.

If you don't read any of this post, read this. I was doing a focused clinical experience (shadowing experiences themed around the organ system we are doing/just did) with a cardiologist at the connective tissue disease clinic at Lurie Children's. I spent a lot of time with the nurse practitioner and a nurse (of 25 years) who was studying to be a nurse practitioner. She hadn't had much experience with CTDs and had a number of questions throughout the morning, some of which I was able to answer. At the end, she thanked me for my help. She said, "Now are you a resident?" I said, no, student. And she said, "4th year?"

Random, isolated incident but I think it's a good sign that the new curriculum (flaws and all) is preparing us well.
 
Last edited:
Well said - though I think you just reiterated most of my points haha. And I think you will agree we have had far too few anatomy sessions.

To applicants, remember this as well, on paper the negatives list is longer than the positives, but that isn't necessarily the true balance in real life.
 
Last edited:
Health and Society is 2 hours per week. It used to be 4, but then many students told the administration that they didn't find the 2 hours of small group sessions to be worthwhile, so they listened and reduced it down to 2 hours after our first unit (which was 14 weeks).

Professional Development floats around here and there (PD is a mix of many things: it's a mix of lecture and small group discussions on topics of medical ethics, AOSC, leadership, teamwork, personal awareness, etc), and are often 1h per week. Sometimes 2h per week, but if so, 1 of those hours is medical ethics, which I believe is pretty fundamental...

TBL depends heavily on the unit. I would say that we have 1 or 2 TBL sessions (each one being 2h) per unit (which nowadays with the organ system is 4-5 wk long). TBL made a lot of headway in terms of the administrators realizing what works and what doesn't work, and from talking to my classmates, people found the more recent ones to be quite helpful, actually...

(I don't understand what the previous comment about AOSC interfering with research is about. We are free to spend all 9 weeks of our summer doing research if we want to, as well as spend time during 1st and 2nd year participating in research... so it's really what you make of it)

How last week's sample schedule was:

Monday:
8-10am: TBL
10am-11:30am: clinical medicine lecture on Health Literacy
1-3pm: clinical skills session with standardized patients OR your preceptorship at a clinic

Tuesday:
8-10am: science lectures
10am-noon: PBL
1-3pm: Health and Society
3-4pm: medical ethics ("PD")

Wednesday:
8-11am: science lecture

Thursday:
8-10am: science lecture
10am-noon: PBL

Friday:
8-10am: science lecture
10-11am: plenary
11am-noon: lecture on leadership ("PD")

I really think the new curriculum is what you make out of it. A new curriculum will of course have glitches (I heard that another top 20 med school who had a curriculum shift in the past 10 years forgot to include the entire Reproductive Unit on their curriculum during the first year. As far as we know, FSM hasn't made that big a mistake).

I think it's also a problem of expectations. When our class were interviewing, we heard about FSM from the current M2's point of view (who are still in the older curriculum). So I admit, we got a different advertisement than what we were really going to get. Believe it or not, they had less mandatory class time, so I think a lot of M1's came here expecting more free afternoons and were disappointed. That won't be the case for you guys.

I really think that you shouldn't be swayed away from FSM because of this... It may seem to some people like we have a lot of "crap in the new curriculum" and a lot of mandatory classes, but might I remind you how little science lectures we have. So I think in comparison, it feels like we have a lot more of everything else. But really, count how many hours of PD or HS we had last week (which is pretty similar to past weeks' schedules). And I don't even mean to suggest that PD and HS are pointless like the other student suggested. I really warn you against coming to FSM if you truly feel that learning about community or public health, discussing dialysis distribution and global shortage, discussing medical ethics, or an occasional lecture on leadership and teamwork (really, 1 hour every 2-3 weeks) is that big of a "waste of your time."

I talk to students in other med schools, and they also have TBL, equivalents of Health and Society... I think you will find complainers at any school you look at, and it's a matter of how vocal they are. You guys have heard from like 3 different people in our class, out of 166. That's not a great sampling size!


Wow, to be honest, that seems like a lot less class time than some of the other schools I'm looking at, especially W-F.
 
Wow, to be honest, that seems like a lot less class time than some of the other schools I'm looking at, especially W-F.

Yes!! 🙂 But, of course, I don't want to give you an unrealistic idea - it does feel a lot busier than what I delineated. But I guess just like in college, while class schedule itself might seem sparse, somehow the day gets long with a lot of other random things. Optional review sessions, extracurricular obligations (or shadowing if you want), meetings here and there, clinic running late... Here is the week before that:

Monday:
8-10am: science lecture
10-11:30am: clinical correlation/skills
1-3pm: PBL

Tuesday:
8-10am: science lecture
10-12pm: health and society
1-3pm: preceptorship (may run late depending on your preceptor; mine finishes b/w 5-6pm); clinical skills

Wednesday:
8-10am: science lecture
10-noon: medical decision making
1-3pm: PBL

Thursday:
8-10am: science lecture

Friday:
8-10: science lecture
10-11: plenary
11-12: AOSC small group meeting (our group leader let us out in 5 min)
1-2: optional heart review session

I hope that gives you an idea though. And basically everything except "science lectures" are mandatory attendance.
 
Re: mandatory sessions

And hopefully that will give sometime soon with any luck.....
 
Thanks for all of your input on the current pre-clinical years! I'm curious about what a plenary is... can anyone explain what that is?
 
Thanks for all of your input on the current pre-clinical years! I'm curious about what a plenary is... can anyone explain what that is?

Its format has been morphing in the past few months, perhaps due to the nature of material we're learning, but here's the idea: it's a session where we get a preview/review of the week (both content-wise and logistics-wise).

In the organ based units, it's been really helpful. The science unit director usually picks a complex patient case (or multiple short ones) that ties in a lot of what we had learned, and tests us in the form of clicker questions. Example - here's a 50y female who came in with X, Y, Z. What's in your diff dx? [clicker q]. Then he gives us more info: here's the family history and her past med history that she shared. What could it be? [clicker q] Here's a bunch of lab results and/or imagine. What do they suggest [clicker q]. This is not for a grade, just for you to check self-understanding.

That sort of thing. And it's a really cool way of reviewing stuff we learned in a science lecture and practicing how to apply it to a clinical scenario.

But this format hasn't always been the case. For instance, in Foundations Unit (first 14 weeks of school), Plenaries were used more as a logistics-review/preview... where they showed us what the upcoming week's schedule looks like, point out any oddities, remind us of various things, etc. And also spend some time reviewing lecture contents from the past week, but they weren't nearly as useful or well integrated (personal opinion). But perhaps this was more fitting since we were just starting med school, and we were a bit overwhelmed with the confusing logistics at first.
 
Has everyone who has been accepted sent their hard copy taxes to the school? JustCurious.
 
Has anyone gotten financial aid emails yet?

I know they said not to expect anything until April 1st but I'm wondering because I have been unable to log into CAESAR with my NetID, even though I've followed the directions (clearing the cache, using a supported browser, etc.). I have also tested out my Northwestern email address and although I can send messages from the account, messages that I tried sending to it aren't received.

It's odd.. does this happen to anyone else?
 
Has anyone gotten financial aid emails yet?

I know they said not to expect anything until April 1st but I'm wondering because I have been unable to log into CAESAR with my NetID, even though I've followed the directions (clearing the cache, using a supported browser, etc.). I have also tested out my Northwestern email address and although I can send messages from the account, messages that I tried sending to it aren't received.

It's odd.. does this happen to anyone else?

I can log into CAESAR, but I have the same problem of not being able to receive emails.
 
Are your emails fsm.northwestern.edu? Or u.northwestern.edu? I work at Feinberg, so I'm trying to gauge whether they gave me the right email address in the email they sent out about netid etc... (didn't get an fsm.northwestern.edu email address). Thanks!! And to add, I can also log-in to CAESAR, but not sure about the whole email situation...
 
Are your emails fsm.northwestern.edu? Or u.northwestern.edu? I work at Feinberg, so I'm trying to gauge whether they gave me the right email address in the email they sent out about netid etc... (didn't get an fsm.northwestern.edu email address). Thanks!! And to add, I can also log-in to CAESAR, but not sure about the whole email situation...


Just regular @northwestern.edu for me.
 
Odd. Yeah, I just have @northwestern.edu right now too. They said we won't use the @fsm ones until later.

I guess I'll just call the IT office about the caesar access.. kind of frustrating
 
Someone from the Class of 2017 Facebook Group page called the financial aids office and said to expect getting the packages by Wednesday (provided if you had sent in all the materials on time).
 
Has anyone heard anything about need based grants and loans?
 
I got my financial aid package already

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
Yeah I was awarded nothing but sweet governmental loans. Is northwestern broke?!
 
When were you guys complete with all the financial aid requirements?
 
Does anyone have a copy of the Second Look schedule? Or does anyone know where I can find it? I have searched but can't seem to track it down.
 
I received a merit scholarship offer last week.
 
Does anyone have a copy of the Second Look schedule? Or does anyone know where I can find it? I have searched but can't seem to track it down.

Yea, I second this question! The schedule used to be on our application status page but, no longer!
 
Congrats man! Well I guess I'm done holding out then- Vanderbilt Class of 2017 for me!
 
Hey folks,

Apparently they pulled the second look schedule from the website and won't repost it - the only way to get the schedule now is upon arriving @ the event. So.... anyone have a copy they'd be willing to share?! 😛
 
Yeah I'm a little disappointed in my package as well...

Same here...still hoping for some sort of merit aid. Admissions office said those usually come out in early/mid April, so maybe there's still hope?
 
Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine
Second Look Agenda 2013

Program, Day One: Thursday, April 11, 4:00 p.m. - 6:30 p.m.
Registration:
4:00 p.m.-5:00 p.m., Lurie Cancer Research Center, Ryan Family Atrium, Ground Level


Dean's Welcome:
5:15 p.m.-5:30 p.m., Lurie Cancer Research Center, Hughes Auditorium, Ground Level


Class of 2017 Reception:
5:30-6:30 p.m., Lurie Cancer Research Center, Ryan Family Atrium, Ground Level


Program, Day Two: Friday, April 12, 8:00 a.m. - 4:30 p.m.

Breakfast:
8:00 a.m.-9:00 a.m., Lurie Cancer Research Center, Ryan Family Atrium, Ground Level

General Sessions:
9:00 a.m.-12:00 p.m.

• Curriculum Overview
• Competencies
• Intro to AOSC
• Student Services/Mentoring
• Diversity-Chicago
• Student Life

Lunch:
12:00 p.m.-1:00 p.m., Lurie Cancer Research Center, Ryan Family Atrium, Ground Level

Break-out Sessions:
1:00 p.m.-4:00 p.m.

• Student Research at Feinberg
• Program in Public Health
• Center for Global Health
• Center for Bioethics
• Simulation Center Tour
• Community Health Clinics
• Prentice Women's Hospital Tour
• Lurie Children's Hospital Tour
• Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago Tour (RIC)

Joint Degree Programs and
Student Origanization Fairs:
4:00 p.m.-5:30 p.m., Lurie Cancer Research Center, Ryan Family Atrium, Ground Level

• Action for Young Athletes in Chicago
• American Medical Association
• American Medical Student Association
• American Medical Women's Association
• Asian Pacific American Medical Student Association
• Chinatown Clinic
• Christian Medical Student Association
• Community Health Clinics
• Community Health Clinics-Psychiatry
• Dance Interest Group (DIG)
• Devon Clinic
• Health Disparities Taskforce
• Hepatitis B Alliance of Chicago
• Internal Medicine Society
• IN VIVO
• Jewish Medical Student Organization (JMSO)
• Latino Medical Student Association (LMSA)
• Loyal Davis Surgical Society (LDSS)
• MD/MPH-Master of Public Health
• Medical Chinese Interest Group
• Nclude
• NU-AID
• OB/GYNE Interests Group and Prenatal Program
• Orthopedic Surgical Society
• QUEERS and ALLIES (Q & A)
• Phi Rho Sigma Medical Society
• South Asian Medical Students Association (SAMSA)
• Sports Medicine Interest Group
• Student Physicians for Social Responsibility
 
I have heard that incoming students can be a part of IP or Education-Centered Medical Home...not both...is that the case? Can any M1 comment on their experiences with these programs? Pros & Cons etc.
 
I have heard that incoming students can be a part of IP or Education-Centered Medical Home...not both...is that the case? Can any M1 comment on their experiences with these programs? Pros & Cons etc.

Correct - you pick IP or ECMH.

I am in ECMH and I have grown to like it. I think my peer's experiences (whether in IP or ECMH) have been very different, mostly depending on your interest, the preceptor, the clinic environment, your attitude, expectations... etc.

Here's my perspective (from what I hear from other people in IP, compared to my own experience in ECMH):
- ECMH takes up more time. I am often in clinic from 1pm until 5-6pm, while more of my IP classmates seem to get out around 2 or 3pm. But this depends on your preceptor of course. I admit this can be frustrating at times, especially if there's an exam the next day and I am "stuck in clinic."
- In ECMH you get to work more with upperclassman. You go into a patient room with an M3 or an M4 (not your preceptor). But you get a cool perspective, having M3s and M4s teach you, who were in your shoes not so long ago. They have been really helpful and are super knowledgeable. They are also less intimidating when you both go see a patient in a room.
- You do interact with your preceptor, but not like in IP where you are paired individually with 1 preceptor who works with you 100%. But one pro I see in this ECMH model is that you get to spend as long as you want on a patient. Last week I saw a patient for 1.5 hours working through everything thoroughly and providing comprehensive care. The patient really loved it and I also liked that I wasn't rushed. An M4 and I talked with the patient for ~65 min, reported it to our preceptor, and he came in to tie up loose ends, prescribe meds, etc in the last 15 min or so. I don't think this can happen if there's only 1 of you and 1 preceptor. In an ECMH you have like 8-10 students (a mix of all years) coming in per afternoon, meaning that each student can afford to spend more than 15 min/patient.
- A big goal of ECMH is longitudinal care. My preceptor has a pool of ~100 "high risk patients" who have incredibly complex diseases and chronic illnesses (typically has 8+ meds, 10+ "problems" listed on their medical records). My preceptor tries to schedule patients from that pool on afternoons when M1's go in to ECMH. So far, I got to see a couple of patients for a follow-up visit, and it's really cool when they remember your name! This is a unique experience you wouldn't get if you walk into a clinic once every 2 weeks and see whoever happens to make an appt that day. ECMH also encourages M1's to call patients at homes and ask how they are doing, build rapport. I think this really helps improve your clinical skills well before 3rd year. I'm not sure this sort of things are emphasized in IP's. (though I think there's diversity among ECMH programs too - I'm not sure that all ECMH preceptors do this exactly)

I think currently, only a fraction of our class is in ECMH. But they are planning on expanding the ECMH program significantly next year to accomodate more students. Sorry if this is confusing - it's a bit difficult to describe. Let me know if you want me to clarify!
 
/crickets

...


But seriously, has anyone from the waitlist heard anything? Or will we probably not hear back until after the dreaded May 15th?
 
/crickets

...


But seriously, has anyone from the waitlist heard anything? Or will we probably not hear back until after the dreaded May 15th?

I emailed the admissions office and they said shortly after May 15. However, most movement will occur in late May. From last year's thread, it seems some alternate list people heard back on May 17.
 
I emailed the admissions office and they said shortly after May 15. However, most movement will occur in late May. From last year's thread, it seems some alternate list people heard back on May 17.

Thanks for keeping us posted 🙂 Keeping my fingers crossed that we hear good news soon!
 
For current students:

1. The first two years are P/F, what about the third and fourth year?
2. Is there a class ranking?
3. How's the social scene?
 
Not a current student but third and fourth year are not pass/fail. Honors, high pass, low pass, etc.

Can't tell you about he social life but had a great time the few times I have been up there.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
I will not be going here, but I was very pleasantly surprised by everything that I learned about the school. good luck everyone.
 
Officially just withdrew from here. Congrats to those who have been accepted and good luck to all those waiting to get off of the waitlist.
 
Officially just withdrew from here. Congrats to those who have been accepted and good luck to all those waiting to get off of the waitlist.

Withdrew today as well. Good luck to those waiting to hear.

Also, I had been classified as NU Independent for financial aid. Without parental income being considered I was eligible for $25K in grants and the rest in federal loans.
 
Withdrew from NU with 160k scholarship-- I hope that money goes to one of you SDNers in the Feinberg Class of 2017!
 
Withdrew from NU with 160k scholarship-- I hope that money goes to one of you SDNers in the Feinberg Class of 2017!
If I got my financial aid package, is it possible for it to change as people withdraw?
 
Called the Office of Admissions this morning and was informed that as yet, they have not pulled any applicants off the alternate list. The woman I spoke to also informed me that they typically pull anywhere from 10-30 people off of an alternate list of 200.
 
I e-mailed admissions on Wednesday the 29th. "There is no change in your status at this time, but we expect to start seeing movement on the alternate list soon."

Whatever "soon" might be. 😛
 
I e-mailed admissions on Wednesday the 29th. "There is no change in your status at this time, but we expect to start seeing movement on the alternate list soon."

Whatever "soon" might be. 😛

Hey, at least this means there hasn't been any movement yet. I guess they're just dragging their feet this year.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top