¿QQué Hora Es? - Official WW Game Thread

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Might be one of my most entertaining experiences in a WW game! It was like modding/playing at the same time without any of the work ;)
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One of the things that kind of gets me about these games now is that people with play styles that are different from the most vocal are often dismissed or seen as "less fun" or "less helpful". I totally get that it's seen as shady but it's a legitimate way to play too. I happen to personally be more helpful as village nearer to end game when there is more data to look back on, so I kind of tend to bide my time until then to avoid both lynch and night kill, and only contribute when something looks blatant to me, which ends up looking wolfy af. It helps when I roll wolf, because it's easy to play that way as a wolf too.

And I prefer my games to be PM-less, for the record. Put it all out on thread.
 
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nyanko said:
One of the things that kind of gets me about these games now is that people with play styles that are different from the most vocal are often dismissed or seen as "less fun" or "less helpful". I totally get that it's seen as shady but it's a legitimate way to play too. I happen to personally be more helpful as village nearer to end game when there is more data to look back on, so I kind of tend to bide my time until then to avoid both lynch and night kill, and only contribute when something looks blatant to me, which ends up looking wolfy af. It helps when I roll wolf, because it's easy to play that way as a wolf too.

And I prefer my games to be PM-less, for the record. Put it all out on thread.
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Here's my thing; if you don't give me anything to work with, I can't get a read on you. If I can't get a read on you, I look at you strictly on voting patterns, and you're a good enough player that I don't trust you not bussing or manipulating that. So if I'm going down my list of people playing trying to decide on a vote, the person who gives me nothing to work with and continues to be a question mark gets quickly worked their way up the list for being lynched. You even admit it makes life easy as a wolf... well, what sort of game would this be if everyone played that way? Not saying everyone needs to run their mouth as much as I do (god forbid) but I really do hate silent threads.

Everyone is more helpful at game end when there's more data... as long as they actually go back and look at it. Something that doesn't happen all that often. :p
 
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A lot of people don't like end-game though, and have said as much on thread (likely because going back through and looking at everything is tedious). I also don't think everyone should play my way, that wasn't my point at all. I think the diversity in play styles is part of what makes it fun.
 
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Jilary said:
That wasn't really my point, I was just adding on that I think it turned out well in the end.


I guess I just think it's crappy play. Also I feel that the thread should be an even playing field. Not everyone can delete posts on here and if something is posted then I think everyone should be able to see it. Just my opinion.
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You don't have to delete the post, just edit. Everyone can edit their own posts.
 
DVMDream said:
I don't think anyone has deleted posts. I sure haven't, I just edit them and really only to fix grammar/spelling.
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STL deleted a post in this game as an intentional "rojo". He wanted people to see it and think he accidentally posted in the main thread instead of the wolf thread.
 
DVMDream said:
I don't think anyone has deleted posts. I sure haven't, I just edit them and really only to fix grammar/spelling.
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STL did in his intentional rojo at the end of this game. I agree with Jil on this point, because at that level you can't really be sure someone did post something or not. If you had to edit it down to a "." or something you at least know someone did something. Entirely deleting the post makes you question your sanity :p
 
Jilary said:
STL deleted a post in this game as an intentional "rojo". He wanted people to see it and think he accidentally posted in the main thread instead of the wolf thread.
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The argument here is that people would say if I just left a ., why didn't I delete the post, and that it becomes apparent that it was a fake Rojo. Shouldn't be penalized because I donate money.
 
SummerTheLynx said:
The argument here is that people would say if I just left a ., why didn't I delete the post, and that it becomes apparent that it was a fake Rojo. Shouldn't be penalized because I donate money.
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And players that can't afford to donate shouldn't be penalized because they can't.
 
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If editing is allowed I think it's dumb to disallow deleting. Heck I even deleted something as a villager early in the game with some lynch justification that wasn't valid at the last second.
 
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Trilt said:
If editing is allowed I think it's dumb to disallow deleting. Heck I even deleted something as a villager early in the game with some lynch justification that wasn't valid at the last second.
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Clearly it was allowed in this game, I'm just saying I don't like it, and I wouldn't allow it if I were modding a game.
 
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SummerTheLynx said:
The argument here is that people would say if I just left a ., why didn't I delete the post, and that it becomes apparent that it was a fake Rojo. Shouldn't be penalized because I donate money.
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Don't do a .,

Place a funny meme or say something else entirely about the game. It is very easy to quickly edit and replace the post with something else. Easy enough, that I don't see the need to delete a post.
 
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And yes, STL prodded me to do it multiple times, but like I said, I didn't want to have too much of an impact on the game, and even though I think mods probably would have allowed it, no one was supposed to know I was in wolf chat.

It wasn't needed anyway :p
 
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WildZoo said:
And yes, STL prodded me to do it multiple times, but like I said, I didn't want to have too much of an impact on the game, and even though I think mods probably would have allowed it, no one was supposed to know I was in wolf chat.

It wasn't needed anyway :p
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I just assumed you were in wolf chat.
 
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Jilary said:
I guess I just think it's crappy play. Also I feel that the thread should be an even playing field. Not everyone can delete posts on here and if something is posted then I think everyone should be able to see it. Just my opinion.
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Interesting. I wasn't aware that not everyone can delete posts. Is that a donor-only thing? That's a reasonably compelling argument, because I agree the playing field should be level.
 
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nyanko said:
One of the things that kind of gets me about these games now is that people with play styles that are different from the most vocal are often dismissed or seen as "less fun" or "less helpful". I totally get that it's seen as shady but it's a legitimate way to play too. I happen to personally be more helpful as village nearer to end game when there is more data to look back on, so I kind of tend to bide my time until then to avoid both lynch and night kill, and only contribute when something looks blatant to me, which ends up looking wolfy af. It helps when I roll wolf, because it's easy to play that way as a wolf too.

And I prefer my games to be PM-less, for the record. Put it all out on thread.
Click to expand...

I don't think I've ever said it's less legitimate. It's just ... you would agree, I assume, that it makes you (and others) harder to evaluate, right? I mean, the less you post the less there is to evaluate. It's not that it makes you "more" sketchy to me - it's that it makes it harder to decide that you're a villager.

So it's not really that you become shady, as much as you don't become "villagery" when other people do. So it's a relative thing.

I completely agree regarding PMs. I like it all in the thread, too.
 
I dunno. I read all Jilary's comments ... and I get her point. Makes sense to me.

At the same time, I kinda like the strategy involved in potentially editing (or deleting, though the "level playing field" is compelling).

It's probably one of those things that makes sense to allow in some games, and not in others, just for variety. *shrug* Just like having some mechanic-heavy games and some mechanic-lite games.
 
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PippyPony said:
To be fair, I think the "game ruining" option he was talking about was the fact that I just spilled my guts and told him I was the last wolf because I knew I was otherwise done for. So having a chaos character kept the game going in this case, which means more play time = more fun.
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Eh, I think it is game-ruining to put too much power in the hands of a single non-mod character. It can be very fun to play as chaos, but I think it can detract from the experience of everyone else. Game design and balance is tricky, and it is very hard to create a chaos or neutral character in a way that isn't unfair to the other players. A chaos or neutral player can take the game-running power out of the hands of the mods to a degree, since an offense apparently needs to be beyond super blatant to earn mod censure or mod killing. WW is a game of informed minority against uninformed majority. When you have a single character whose win conditions enable them to freely interact with both groups (including in PMs!) then it becomes a game of one super-informed player (the smallest target) versus a less-informed minority (the medium target) versus an uninformed majority (the largest target). One player has the best information and if they play it quietly, they are also the least probable to be killed. It's unbalanced.

This has gotten me thinking a lot about game design! I never thought I would get into WW this much. Thanks for a super fun game guys.
 
hygebeorht said:
Eh, I think it is game-ruining to put too much power in the hands of a single non-mod character. It can be very fun to play as chaos, but I think it can detract from the experience of everyone else. Game design and balance is tricky, and it is very hard to create a chaos or neutral character in a way that isn't unfair to the other players. A chaos or neutral player can take the game-running power out of the hands of the mods to a degree, since an offense apparently needs to be beyond super blatant to earn mod censure or mod killing. WW is a game of informed minority against uninformed majority. When you have a single character whose win conditions enable them to freely interact with both groups (including in PMs!) then it becomes a game of one super-informed player (the smallest target) versus a less-informed minority (the medium target) versus an uninformed majority (the largest target). One player has the best information and if they play it quietly, they are also the least probable to be killed. It's unbalanced.

This has gotten me thinking a lot about game design! I never thought I would get into WW this much. Thanks for a super fun game guys.
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Actually, I had fairly little power as chaos compared to other games. What specifically did you think was overpowered for chaos to have?
 
SummerTheLynx said:
Actually, I had fairly little power as chaos compared to other games. What specifically did you think was overpowered for chaos to have?
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Honestly I think if I ever designed a game with a chaos player in the future, my chaos player would have an immutable lifespan. Like, if you aren't lynched by night X, you die and take two random players with you. Like a suicide bomber. Then the chaos player's motivation truly is chaos, not winning the game by beating other factions (chaos could have "make it to your suicide night" as their win condition, I guess).

This setup gives both sides plenty of motivation to suss out chaos, gives chaos a lot of motivation to stay undercover while starting as much **** as possible. I think the challenge of lying low while messing with people would be way more fun. In a game where a chaos player can win with either faction, there is not as much incentive to play it close to the chest. The balance of choosing when to share information versus withhold information is a lot of the fun of gameplay.

But I've only played two games and died early in one of them. I've never played a wolf role. Maybe I have more to learn.
 
hygebeorht said:
But I've only played two games and died early in one of them. I've never played a wolf role. Maybe I have more to learn.
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I'm gonna go ahead and say that I am already afraid for the game when you are a wolf. I have this sneaking suspicion that you're going to be pretty good at it.
 
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I actually think chaos is usually one of the hardest roles to pull off, as both sides generally want you dead. Village finds you, you die. Wolves will usually accidentally hit you in night kills.

This game hit a perfect storm with one of the only people who could actually verify your win condition sympathetic to you, and a wolf who knew what you were and was desperate. This is probably one of the only games where chaos managed to actually play both sides of the field and that's... fun. Kinda what chaos is supposed to do... cause shenanigans. :)
 
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LetItSnow said:
I don't think I've ever said it's less legitimate. It's just ... you would agree, I assume, that it makes you (and others) harder to evaluate, right? I mean, the less you post the less there is to evaluate. It's not that it makes you "more" sketchy to me - it's that it makes it harder to decide that you're a villager.

So it's not really that you become shady, as much as you don't become "villagery" when other people do. So it's a relative thing.

I completely agree regarding PMs. I like it all in the thread, too.
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If you haven't said (or implied) that, you're not the problem. (at least for this, you're the problem in other ways.......)
 
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This thread was on the "Top Discussions" newsletter that SDN just emailed me :laugh:. Wonder if we'll see an influx?
 
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