UCLA vs Johns Hopkins

[lovetodive]

I feel incredibly lucky and am tremendously honored by my acceptances. None the less, I've been wrestling with this decision for the past couple of weeks and I feel completely torn. My decision deadline approaches and I was hoping that the SDN community might offer new/different perspectives on my dilemma.

I am very interested in continuing to perform research in the wet-lab setting, but am also open to the idea of moving to the clinic/database for future research. I am a self-learner and want to devote as much time as possible to extra-curricular projects--in other words, I want to be in an environment where curriculum is relaxed (optional lectures, no class ranking, extracurricular work/research is emphasized, etc). I have been lucky enough to spend most of my life by the ocean, and surfing/diving/fishing has been my go to source for relaxation and meditation. However, I am totally willing to find new hobbies if circumstances change.

Hopkins

Pros

1. Roughly 600 million dollars in NIH funding, in 2015 JHU was the top NIH funded institution in the country
2. small class size (120)
3. strong hospital affiliation in Johns Hopkins Hospital, ranked top 3 by US News,
4. interesting (diverse, low income, high trauma) patient population
5. cheaper cost of living versus Westwood
6. prestige edge?
7. 2 billion dollar endowment, which could translate to internal grant/funding opportunities for medical students
8. Area of “scholarly concentration” built into curriculum ensures that every student has time/resources/advising to undertake a unique research project

Cons

1. location in Baltimore, cold(California native)/far from family and friends
2. perhaps slightly more difficult to match back into California for residency when compared to UCLA?
3. 47k/year tuition without opportunity for scholarship (I do not qualify for need based aid, will take out some of the cost in loans)
4. pre-clinical AOA ranking, competitiveness amongst students (although all the students that I met on interview day seemed to be very chill and laid back)

UCLA DGSoM

Pros

1. location, warmer, close to beach/ocean/friends, love the Westwood area
2. strong hospital affiliation, Ronald Reagan, ranked top 3 by US News
3. diversity of rotation sites ranges from 'boutique' medicine at Cedars-Sinai to county safety net hospital Harbor-UCLA
4. also an interesting diverse patient population
5. multiple rotation sites improves my ability to network at multiple residency programs and students seem to be very successful at matching into southern California for residency
6. many research opportunities, 11th most NIH funding in country in 2015, 370 million
7. cheaper cost of attendance, 32k/year (possibly negated by higher cost of living?)
8. true P/F for pre-clinical years
9. really liked prospective and current students that I met on interview day/second look weekend

Cons

1. higher cost of living
2. lower “prestige” than Hopkins
3. bigger class size (170)
4. not much research emphasis designed into the curriculum, although there will be plenty of extra-curricular research opportunity

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[PugsAndHugs]

UCLA 100%. Your cons for UCLA seem sort of forced in my opinion, like you had to think hard to find some.

1. What's higher cost of living when its 15k/year less in tuition...?
2. Really...? Prestige? That should not even be a factor when you are comparing these two great schools.
3. 120 vs 170... Again, too close to actually be a factor (if the class size was double I would understand).
4. You will not have any difficulty finding research at UCLA, it may even be more beneficial that it is not in your cirriculum since it will give you more time to focus on your STEPs.

Decision looks clear to me, but I understand you may wanted other opinions. Good luck!

 

[lovetodive]

@PugsAndHugs thank you for your input, love your avatar/username lol. You raise a lot of good points.
1. Just wanted to mention that the difference in COA between the two schools is not all that significant.
I figure that rent in Westwood will be about $500/month more expensive than rent in Baltimore, increasing the comparative cost of UCLA by 6k/year. Figuring only rent and tuition, the difference in COA is closer to 9k-10k a year.

 

[trynahelp]

I say UCLA, because on your pros list you have tangible things, like nice weather, great people, better curriculum, etc... On the Hopkins positives you have basically prestige and money listed 5 times, neither of which are lacking at UCLA. Also, don't overlook that cost of attendance difference. 9k a year becomes 36k over 4 years, which with interest adds up to at least 50k by the time you can really pay it off. Given the possibility of PSLF going away, I wouldn't over look any financial difference, especially one that large.

Basically I agree with @PugsAndHugs.

 

[lovetodive]

@trynahelp, thank you for your input... I think I failed to mention that to me "a lot of funding" = a lot of gifted faculty and lab groups who are leaders in their field.

 

[justadream]

@trynahelp, thank you for your input... I think I failed to mention that to me "a lot of funding" = a lot of gifted faculty and lab groups who are leaders in their field.

Hopkins probably has more famous/notable faculty with whom you could do research. But ultimately you can only join 1 lab. I think the bigger factor is choosing the specific person (for example, do they publish a lot? do they give med students reasonable duties? is this person a leader in X field?) and not make blanket comparisons about the research between the two schools (since they both receive lots of funding, are associated with comparable hospitals, etc.).

So in other words, yes, Hopkins is better at research by most metrics. But that doesn't mean every researcher at Hopkins > every researcher at UCLA. The more important factor is how careful you are with deciding with whom to do research. You will find plenty of great and not-so-great people to work with at both places.

 

[bearintraining]

I'd vote UCLA. it's very difficult to move away from the west coast and you sound thoroughly entrenched in the life style. For what it's worth, I turned down a postdoc at JHMI and I don't regret it.

You're gonna get an awesome education buddy. Enjoy.

 

[trynahelp]

@trynahelp, thank you for your input... I think I failed to mention that to me "a lot of funding" = a lot of gifted faculty and lab groups who are leaders in their field.

Definitely understood! I still think you'll find that at either school. Have you found a specific lab or group at Hopkins that you particularly love? Is there no equivalent at UCLA? Are you committed to research that much?

I still say UCLA, but I definitely understand your point is more nuanced than I originally thought. Either way you're going to do awesome things, and you are in the lucky position of not being able to make a bad choice!

 

[mrspecialist]

HOPKINS.... consistently one of the top medical schools in US.... where they filmed "House"!

 

[Domepiece]

HOPKINS.... consistently one of the top medical schools in US.... where they filmed "House"!

House was actually filmed down the street from UCLA lol...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0412142/locations

 

[Cognovi]

HOPKINS.... consistently one of the top medical schools in US.... where they filmed "House"!

No, if House is any indicator, Princeton has the top medical school in the US.

 

[occams_razor]

HOPKINS.... consistently one of the top medical schools in US....

true, but UCLA is also consistently ranked as one of the top med schools (in the top 15). you really can't go wrong going there...

 

[Psai]

Hopkins

Pros
1. Hopkins
2. good patient population
3. cheap to live
4. Will match well

Cons
1. Mandatory research
2. Baltimore
3. Expensive


UCLA

Pros
1. UCLA
2. Location
3. Good hospitals and many sites
4. diversity
5. cheaper tuition
6. No mandatory research but have option

Cons
1. Expensive to live in

The rest of your list is nonsense. The money is probably a wash. But it's clear by what you're saying that ucla is right for you

 

[justadream]

Hopkins

Pros
1. Hopkins
2. good patient population
3. cheap to live
4. Will match well

Cons
1. Mandatory research
2. Baltimore
3. Expensive


UCLA

Pros
1. UCLA
2. Location
3. Good hospitals and many sites
4. diversity
5. cheaper tuition
6. No mandatory research but have option

Cons
1. Expensive to live in

The rest of your list is nonsense. The money is probably a wash. But it's clear by what you're saying that ucla is right for you

Lol what does this mean? The undergrad?

 

[Danbo1957]

Johns Hopkins University has the deserved reputation for being hard academically, cutthroat even in certain majors. Students are there to learn their subject matter and move on to professional school. Fun? They scoff at fun, this ain't California...

 

[Psai]

Lol what does this mean? The undergrad?

Nah, just edited op's list for what I think is important. UCLA has a nice name and it's good for cali residencies

 

[lovetodive]

I really appreciate everyone's input.

1. I think that a big endowment benefits students in many ways directly and indirectly. If I remember correctly, the JHU dean's office awards a summer research grant to most students who apply, (using endowment money). More indirectly, a large endowment might help fund facilities, attract faculty, etc. Is this true?

3. Ok, that is very interesting, I did not know this. So if AOA ranking isn't announced until after match, what is the purpose of having an AOA rank?
Thank you for your help