University of Minnesota vs. Case Western

[Lefty Doodle]

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I know this could get moved to school-specific discussions, but it looks like it will get quickly shuffled down the forum with all of the activity on the schools' threads.

I am a Minnesota resident, and I interviewed at the University of Minnesota recently, although I have yet to hear back. The reason I am thinking hard about this now is that I would have to take an extra class for Minnesota next semester, and I am not sure it is worth it because I'm not feeling like I would choose Minnesota anyway. I've already been accepted to Case Western (University Program). I loved Case, and was ecstatic to be accepted. I think at this point I just feel like forgoing Minnesota as an option because I didn't like it that much, have mixed reviews from my friends who went there, and it is only $10,000/yr cheaper than Case. I am just not very excited about Minnesota and it doesn't seem as practical an option (being my state school) as I kept thinking it should/would be.

I guess I'm interested in hearing from other people who interviewed at both places to see what you thought of them. Did anyone have the opposite reaction--thought MN was awesome compared to Case? I am not sure if my lack of enthusiasm for Minnesota comes from it being one of my last interviews, because by then I was pretty burnt out.

 

[raltima07]

I would go case - btw, you stole my acceptance at case - I called and they told me. I want it back .

Seriously though, 10K a year isnt worth unhappiness. It doesn't matter what I say, or Joe, or anyone - go with YOUR GUT. Also, second look is a good time to check

 

[aSagacious]

Moving to the 'school specific discussions' forum.

 

[Dartmouth2005]

I know this could get moved to school-specific discussions, but it looks like it will get quickly shuffled down the forum with all of the activity on the schools' threads.

I am a Minnesota resident, and I interviewed at the University of Minnesota recently, although I have yet to hear back. The reason I am thinking hard about this now is that I would have to take an extra class for Minnesota next semester, and I am not sure it is worth it because I'm not feeling like I would choose Minnesota anyway. I've already been accepted to Case Western (University Program). I loved Case, and was ecstatic to be accepted. I think at this point I just feel like forgoing Minnesota as an option because I didn't like it that much, have mixed reviews from my friends who went there, and it is only $10,000/yr cheaper than Case. I am just not very excited about Minnesota and it doesn't seem as practical an option (being my state school) as I kept thinking it should/would be.

I guess I'm interested in hearing from other people who interviewed at both places to see what you thought of them. Did anyone have the opposite reaction--thought MN was awesome compared to Case? I am not sure if my lack of enthusiasm for Minnesota comes from it being one of my last interviews, because by then I was pretty burnt out.

I would go with Minnesota.

Ten thousand a year means 40k over your med student career.

Here are the numbers for repayment:

Loan Calculator

[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Loan Balance: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$40,000.00 .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Adjusted Loan Balance: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$40,000.00 .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Loan Interest Rate: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]6.80%.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Loan Fees: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]0.00%.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Loan Term: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]10 years.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Minimum Payment: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$50.00 .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Total Years in College:.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]4 years.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Average Debt per Year:.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$10,000.00 .
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Monthly Loan Payment:.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$460.32 .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Number of Payments: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]120.
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Cumulative Payments: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$55,238.63 .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Total Interest Paid: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$15,238.63 .

[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $460.32 plus a final payment of $460.55..
​

Do you dislike Minnesota that much that you would pay 55k to move to another state? This isn't monopoly money. You can't go bankrupt to get out paying it back.

Your repayment numbers will likely be higher since you have some debt that starts capitalizing interest while in school.

 

[drizzt3117]

I'd go to Case, you seem to like it more, it's a better school, and its graduates make up a nationwide network of contacts.

 

[Clausewitz]

Financially Minnesota makes a great deal more sense. However the U has not been doing very well financially lately, and in general has lost some of its prestige. Losing Prof. Schlievert this summer to Iowa, and his comments about the schools current state did not inspire much confidence. However in the end it is a very personal choice, and your gut is likely the best indicator. It would be a shame to listen too much to others and wind up regretting your choice later.

 

[Lefty Doodle]

Thanks for the input. I actually do think it is worth $55k to not spend 4 years in Minnesota (and near my family...), but I guess I am looking to see if anyone absolutely loved the U like people all over these forums seem to love Case. Like if I am missing something really spectacular. But I think it does boil down to my gut, which is telling me to head to Cleveland.

 

[Myuu]

Thanks for the input. I actually do think it is worth $55k to not spend 4 years in Minnesota (and near my family...), but I guess I am looking to see if anyone absolutely loved the U like people all over these forums seem to love Case. Like if I am missing something really spectacular. But I think it does boil down to my gut, which is telling me to head to Cleveland.

Good choice.😀

 

[Metallica1936]

I know this could get moved to school-specific discussions, but it looks like it will get quickly shuffled down the forum with all of the activity on the schools' threads.

I am a Minnesota resident, and I interviewed at the University of Minnesota recently, although I have yet to hear back. The reason I am thinking hard about this now is that I would have to take an extra class for Minnesota next semester, and I am not sure it is worth it because I'm not feeling like I would choose Minnesota anyway. I've already been accepted to Case Western (University Program). I loved Case, and was ecstatic to be accepted. I think at this point I just feel like forgoing Minnesota as an option because I didn't like it that much, have mixed reviews from my friends who went there, and it is only $10,000/yr cheaper than Case. I am just not very excited about Minnesota and it doesn't seem as practical an option (being my state school) as I kept thinking it should/would be.

I guess I'm interested in hearing from other people who interviewed at both places to see what you thought of them. Did anyone have the opposite reaction--thought MN was awesome compared to Case? I am not sure if my lack of enthusiasm for Minnesota comes from it being one of my last interviews, because by then I was pretty burnt out.

I am in nearly the exact same position as you are. U of MN is my state school, and I am accepted at both Case and the U of MN. Unlike you, I did really like the U. It was an exciting day for me. However, Case absolutely blew my mind. I couldn't stop grinning on my interview day even if I tried. It's more prestigious, has a better curriculum, has better research and training hospitals, has happier students (it seems like), and a better/cheaper city than Minneapolis. Still, I know that I can get to where I want in my career even if I go to the U of MN.

When you look at the average indebtness of students, Case is actually cheaper than the U of MN. So, I would not say the U of MN is cheaper. They don't give in-state vs. out-of-state average indebtness statistics. However, considering that most of the U of MN students are from MN, it accurately reflects the fact that Case should still be cheaper for us. Based on the handouts I've received, U of MN avg. indebtness is around $173,000 I believe, and Case's is only $156,000 or so.

The only thing U of MN has above Case for me is proximity to my family and friends here. However, that isn't enough of a factor to turn me away from Case, even if it is absurdly expensive to fly from Minneapolis to Cleveland when considering the distance between the two.

 

[Nymphicus]

I think that compared to what many people have to pay, $10,000 a year difference is chump change to go to the school of your dreams.

 

[deleted450549]

OP, I'm from the Cleveland area. Accepted to Case and waiting to hear back from MN.

Naturally, Case was wonderful... Dr. Mehta and Mr. Essman are champs. Pretty hard to top Case's hospital system, amongst other things.

I would rate my day at the U as pretty good, but not great.

However, I would probably end up going to the U of M for two reasons: to try out a new location and Im not totally sold on Case's limited number of required lecture hours and infrequency of exams (only because I as serial procrastinator, I like napping too much, and self-motivation is not my forte)

Really, the point is that you should pick a school based on your own personal reasons. No one can tell you where you belong better than yourself. $40,000 is nothing in the long run, especially if your heart is at Case.

Best of luck, OP. (and withdrawal your U of M application soon so I can take your spot! 😉 )

 

[Docbeme]

I would go with Minnesota.

Ten thousand a year means 40k over your med student career.

Here are the numbers for repayment:

Loan Calculator

[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Loan Balance: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$40,000.00 .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Adjusted Loan Balance: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$40,000.00 .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Loan Interest Rate: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]6.80%.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Loan Fees: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]0.00%.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Loan Term: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]10 years.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Minimum Payment: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$50.00 .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Total Years in College:.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]4 years.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Average Debt per Year:.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$10,000.00 .
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Monthly Loan Payment:.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$460.32 .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Number of Payments: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]120.
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Cumulative Payments: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$55,238.63 .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Total Interest Paid: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$15,238.63 .

[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $460.32 plus a final payment of $460.55..
​

Do you dislike Minnesota that much that you would pay 55k to move to another state? This isn't monopoly money. You can't go bankrupt to get out paying it back.

Your repayment numbers will likely be higher since you have some debt that starts capitalizing interest while in school.

How do you include the match lists from each of the two schools in your equations? They are widely disparate as to where graduates matriculate for their residencies and, in my opinion, heavily favor Case.

 

[drizzt3117]

How do you include the match lists from each of the two schools in your equations? They are widely disparate as to where graduates matriculate for their residencies and, in my opinion, heavily favor Case.

Match lists reflect preference and shouldn't be used to compare schools in most cases; especially state vs private schools. It's hard to compare match lists from a state school to a private school bc 80+% of the people from Minnesota are from minnesota, and many if not most will want to stay in the Midwest. Most of the people at Mayo when I interviewed there were from the surrounding 4 states and wanted to go there over NY/SF/LA unlike people from the coasts.

That being said, many of the people leaving the Midwest were going to elite programs; I'd say the UM list was very impressive at a cursory glance, I'm not sure what you're looking at, but as previously mentioned, the ability of pre-meds to interpret match lists is nonexistent.

 

[Docbeme]

Match lists reflect preference and shouldn't be used to compare schools in most cases; especially state vs private schools. It's hard to compare match lists from a state school to a public school bc 80+% of the people from Minnesota are from minnesota, and many if not most will want to stay in the Midwest. Most of the people at Mayo when I interviewed there were from the surrounding 4 states and wanted to go there over NY/SF/LA unlike people from the coasts.

That being said, many of the people leaving the Midwest were going to elite programs; I'd say the UM list was very impressive at a cursory glance, I'm not sure what you're looking at, but as previously mentioned, the ability of pre-meds to interpret match lists is nonexistent.

Match lists also include the preferences of the residency programs. Of the top 20 USNWR research ranked med schools, a quick count shows 8 are public U's. Looking at the MN match list, a substantial majority of students do their residencies outside of the state.

I am an M1 and while I have no need yet to know the subtleties of residency programs, it is not hard to assume that Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, and the other elite programs are considered desirable places to attend residency. When you look at match lists for the top medical schools, there are patterns that show up that are probably not randomly generated.

 

[Metallica1936]

Top medical schools (Case being among them) naturally have higher achieving students on average. That's just common sense. It's also common sense that the students at these schools will match into better residency programs simply because they are higher achievers on average, and the strength of the institution is higher. In the end, we'll all have an MD though.

 

[drizzt3117]

Match lists also include the preferences of the residency programs. Of the top 20 USNWR research ranked med schools, a quick count shows 8 are public U's. Looking at the MN match list, a substantial majority of students do their residencies outside of the state.

I am an M1 and while I have no need yet to know the subtleties of residency programs, it is not hard to assume that Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, and the other elite programs are considered desirable places to attend residency. When you look at match lists for the top medical schools, there are patterns that show up that are probably not randomly generated.

What's a better program for radiology? Columbia, Penn, or Washington (Seattle)? How about Dartmouth vs UTSW?

How about neurosurgery? Wash U vs Mayo vs Virginia vs Cornell?

What about peds? Cininnati vs UT-Memphis vs Penn vs MGH?

I'm a 4th year and along with my friends have been living/breathing the match for the past few months and even so I don't feel qualified to differentiate between the top programs in fields other than radiology. Suffice it to say that most med students/residents don't know that much about programs outside of their field/fields of interest.

 

[Yraqi]

What's a better program for radiology? Columbia, Penn, or Washington (Seattle)? How about Dartmouth vs UTSW?

How about neurosurgery? Wash U vs Mayo vs Virginia vs Cornell?

What about peds? Cininnati vs UT-Memphis vs Penn vs MGH?

I'm a 4th year and along with my friends have been living/breathing the match for the past few months and even so I don't feel qualified to differentiate between the top programs in fields other than radiology. Suffice it to say that most med students/residents don't know that much about programs outside of their field/fields of interest.

Out of curiosity, how would you rate these radiology programs?

 

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

I have lived in Minneapolis for 5 years, and loved living there very much. However, when it came down to a medical school, I was absolutely not sold on going to the U of MN despite the fact that I worked at the University of Minnesota Medical Center - Fairview. I would go to Case in a heartbeat - I did not even apply to U of MN since I'd go to several other midwestern schools over the U of MN ( that I have thankfully gotten into - shout out to Carver and Pritzker - please show me some cheddar to ease the money pain...lol😍).

All my friends, and professional contacts are in Minneapolis but like me, please follow your gut...and go to Case. Besides, nothing more limiting to intellectual breadth than living in the same place that you went to school and/or was born - spread those wings and fly, phatnah!!!👍

 

[drizzt3117]

Out of curiosity, how would you rate these radiology programs?

Penn and Washington are top tier, UTSW is close to that level, Columbia and Dartmouth are midtier or lower. I don't know how one would know that without extensive experience/discussion with people in the field.

 

[Docbeme]

Penn and Washington are top tier, UTSW is close to that level, Columbia and Dartmouth are midtier or lower. I don't know how one would know that without extensive experience/discussion with people in the field.

You are an M4. How hard is it to get a very good initial data set?

You could ask your radiology chair along with a few of the radiologyprofessors in your med school, and then supplement your knowledge with a few SDN/Google searches like the following which may not be 100 percent accurate, but is close to what you stated and is totally based on research dollars:

http://www.residentphysician.com/Radiology_rankings.htm

 

[Ilovewater]

it is not hard to assume that Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, and the other elite programs are considered desirable places to attend residency.

Meh...just because those are big name schools doesn't mean they have top programs in every specialty. It really depends.

I also vote for Case. It's only 10k more per year, but you'll be happy where you be. Also, have you received financial aid packages from both school? You can wait and see if Case offers you anything to close the gap.

 

[Docbeme]

Meh...just because those are big name schools doesn't mean they have top programs in every specialty. It really depends.

I also vote for Case. It's only 10k more per year, but you'll be happy where you be. Also, have you received financial aid packages from both school? You can wait and see if Case offers you anything to close the gap.

You are absolutely right, not all "elite" schools have great training programs in all specialties. My point was that information about good radiology programs is not hard to find. From having two brothers who recently went through the match in radiology and plastics, the point they made is that it wasn't hard finding good programs; rather, the difficulty was in determining what was the best fit for the individual and making your rank list accordingly.

My point was that it seems very common on SDN for people to say go with the money. If the schools are similar is stature, that makes sense, but if they are not, I would think long and hard before making a decision based solely on financials.

 

[drizzt3117]

You are an M4. How hard is it to get a very good initial data set?

You could ask your radiology chair along with a few of the radiologyprofessors in your med school, and then supplement your knowledge with a few SDN/Google searches like the following which may not be 100 percent accurate, but is close to what you stated and is totally based on research dollars:

http://www.residentphysician.com/Radiology_rankings.htm

Lmao, good plan, why don't you go ask your rads chair how to compare programs that aren't yours; get right on that and let me know how it goes, k?

As far as programs go, a quick visit to the radiology forums (www.auntminnie.com) will show that there's hardly a consensus on what top programs are, and research dollars is only a small piece of the puzzle. Program rep, location, top faculty, independence, resident culture, call schedule, and a myriad of other factors are things to take into account. As I said before, m4s in the months leading to match think of little else; you'd be hardpressed to find people more knowledgable about the differences between specific residency programs. Once you've matched you're much more concerned with your own residency.

Your little web search wouldn't have told you that the head of MR at BID and one of his top MR faculty left to take the chair position at UTSW, or that Columbia recently picked up one of the top interventional guys from Sinai, or discussed the different tracks available at Penn. It also would have no bearing on determining what programs you were competitive for; which is an even bigger piece of the puzzle.

 

[Myuu]

As a pre-med, trying to compare match lists from two well-respected institutions is just silly, especially if you're basing part of your decision to matriculate on that comparison.

If one of them made you happier, go to that one.

Obviously, I vote Case, but I always vote Case.