2008-2009 George Washington University (GWU) Secondary Application Thread

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icarus8 said:
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I've been told the probation is for the following 3 reasons:
1. Improper administration of 3rd-year Shelf exams
2. Not having enough classroom space for students
3. Too low of student:hospital space ratio at the GW Medical Center

I'll be able to find out more and confirm all this sometime tomorrow.

As it stands, though, they will have 2 years to shape up, by building more space, etc. It is really based on technicalities and with their deep pockets I'm sure they will build/renovate as necessary. This has happened to other schools like Georgetown, St. Louis (who actually lost accreditation at one point). It is a shame because they are a good school, students like it there, and they have high board scores and solid residency matches.

But, if they don't fix these things in 2 years, then they can't grant M.D.'s.
 
bob1988 said:
I've been told the probation is for the following 3 reasons:
1. Improper administration of 3rd-year Shelf exams
2. Not having enough classroom space for students
3. Too low of student:hospital space ratio at the GW Medical Center

I'll be able to find out more and confirm all this sometime tomorrow.

As it stands, though, they will have 2 years to shape up, by building more space, etc. It is really based on technicalities and with their deep pockets I'm sure they will build/renovate as necessary. This has happened to other schools like Georgetown, St. Louis (who actually lost accreditation at one point). It is a shame because they are a good school, students like it there, and they have high board scores and solid residency matches.

But, if they don't fix these things in 2 years, then they can't grant M.D.'s.
Click to expand...

How in the world do you know this? It would be nice to know before applying. Although it probably wouldn't have stopped me anyway.
 
bob1988 said:
I've been told the probation is for the following 3 reasons:
1. Improper administration of 3rd-year Shelf exams
2. Not having enough classroom space for students
3. Too low of student:hospital space ratio at the GW Medical Center

I'll be able to find out more and confirm all this sometime tomorrow.

As it stands, though, they will have 2 years to shape up, by building more space, etc. It is really based on technicalities and with their deep pockets I'm sure they will build/renovate as necessary. This has happened to other schools like Georgetown, St. Louis (who actually lost accreditation at one point). It is a shame because they are a good school, students like it there, and they have high board scores and solid residency matches.

But, if they don't fix these things in 2 years, then they can't grant M.D.'s.
Click to expand...

This sounds like the classes are too big to fit the facilities in place. I sure hope that GW will build instead of cutting enrollment.:scared:
 
until this guy with 8 posts tells us where he is getting this info...i am not going to take it serious
 
tdsbird2 said:
until this guy with 8 posts tells us where he is getting this info...i am not going to take it serious
Click to expand...

Word. An anonymous poster giving us information from an anonymous source...
 
Here's some more anonymous posting from an anonymous source:

"To whom it may concern,

George Washington (GW) medical school lost its accreditation today 10-14-2008.
The school has been on probation since June, the Dean of the medical collage had appealed the probation in hopes of over turning the board of Medical Collages decision.
The students of the medical collage did not know about the probation in fact the top administrators of the medical collage just found out this morning!
There will be an emergency meeting of all top administrators tomorrow morning
10-15-2008

The true losing body, is the medical students who pay up to 100k dollars a year and are getting a diploma from a unaccredited medical school in our nation capital name after our First President."

link: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/rnr/879563904.html
 
Here is more info:

It had nothing to do with shelf exams. It is basically due to a bunch of bureaucratic nonsense, such as not enough study space and lounge space or GWU's learning objectives are not clearly stated, etc. They plan to be up to code within 1 year. The chance of them actually losing the accreditation is very low. As it stands they are on probation.

My info comes from someone affliated with GWU. If you don't believe me, that's fine, but you can find out from the school directly if you want. In addition, they are required to fully disclose this info to applicants or matriculants (I forget which it is).
 
In other news, a recent medical school ranking has placed St. George's College of Medicine in its list of top 10 research schools on the basis that the college's research in aquatic life will have unforseen impacts on the pharmaceutical industry...
 
It is true and many people will jump to conclusions but those who truly know whats going will discover that the problem has nothing to do with the education of the students, curriculumn or adminstering of self-exams. One of the major findings was in fact not enough study space/lounge and the wording of curriculmn objectives, not the actual curriculmn which received very strong marks.
 
Stixman28 said:
Here's some more anonymous posting from an anonymous source:

"To whom it may concern,

George Washington (GW) medical school lost its accreditation today 10-14-2008.
The school has been on probation since June, the Dean of the medical collage had appealed the probation in hopes of over turning the board of Medical Collages decision.
The students of the medical collage did not know about the probation in fact the top administrators of the medical collage just found out this morning!
There will be an emergency meeting of all top administrators tomorrow morning
10-15-2008

The true losing body, is the medical students who pay up to 100k dollars a year and are getting a diploma from a unaccredited medical school in our nation capital name after our First President."

link: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/rnr/879563904.html
Click to expand...


Well I'm not saying it's not true, but I'll wait to hear something official rather than trust a random craigslist poster who can't spell "college." I tend believe that where there's smoke, there's fire and I appreciate the people who are trying to bring this to light. I'm just going to take it with a grain of salt until I hear something a little more official. I feel like this is something they should have to disclose to applicants, especially before they shell out $100+ for an application.
 
chessodoc said:
In other news, a recent medical school ranking has placed St. George's College of Medicine in its list of top 10 research schools on the basis that the college's research in aquatic life will have unforseen impacts on the pharmaceutical industry...
Click to expand...

Now I feel bad for laughing all of my friends who told me how great of a school it was. I guess I'm going to have to man up and apologize...
 
Stixman28 said:
Here's some more anonymous posting from an anonymous source:

"To whom it may concern,

George Washington (GW) medical school lost its accreditation today 10-14-2008.
The school has been on probation since June, the Dean of the medical collage had appealed the probation in hopes of over turning the board of Medical Collages decision.
The students of the medical collage did not know about the probation in fact the top administrators of the medical collage just found out this morning!
There will be an emergency meeting of all top administrators tomorrow morning
10-15-2008

The true losing body, is the medical students who pay up to 100k dollars a year and are getting a diploma from a unaccredited medical school in our nation capital name after our First President."

link: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/rnr/879563904.html
Click to expand...

It is amazing how fast rumors get out. They called all the students in this AM for a meeting.

1. It is true that GW is on probation BUT it is still fully accredited at present to grant MD's.
2. The issues regarding the probation are, frankly, stupid. They are administrative type stuff for the most part. They have nothing to do with the curriculum at all. In fact, the LCME report apparently made note several times that the quality/competency of the MD's graduating from GW was NOT the issue at all.
3. The problems will be fixed within one year per Dean Scott, well ahead of the two year deadline.
4. Furthermore, the LCME will be working with GW directly to ensure everything is fixed. To lose it's accreditation, GW would basically have to continually ignore their recs.

Basically, as a current GW student, I think this sucks. I'm angry that these administrative technicalities were not properly addressed. For the tuition $$$ we pay, they really should have somebody proof reading their LCME stuff. However, it will be fixed and the issues themselves were, again, not to do with the quality of the medical education.
 
O man looks like GW isn't as great as we thought. Feel free to withdraw so you can increase my chances! just joshing
 
This is the best new yet, since I am interviewing there this Wednesday. I don't think it will affect me. I still hold GWU in high regards and consider it my top 3 choices. I wonder if the admissions office will explain this issue on interview day. Furthermore, can you explain what these technicalities are? For example, is the student:computer/faculty/recreation center/study area too low? And how is the dean addressing these "technicalities?" I really love DC and would love to go there. Is this an isolated incident or is it also affecting neighboring GT, too? Thanks
 
GWU just sent an e-mail to applicants explaining the situation. scandal hehe
 
This just came through email

"Dear Applicant:

We are contacting you on behalf of the GW School of Medicine and Health Sciences. We are pleased that you are successfully moving through the application process and we want to keep you informed of a recent development.

The George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences completed earlier this month its accreditation process which reviewed the program leading to the MD degree.

As a result of the review, the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME) placed the program on probationary status. All School programs remain fully accredited during the probationary period.

The School is already developing an action plan to correct the noted areas that did not meet the LCME's standards including curriculum management, lounge and study space for students, and internal administrative processes. The School has up to 24 months to address these issues and plans to complete its work within the academic year.

The School is committed to academic excellence and to providing a superior education for its medical students. The LCME commended the School for providing students with a strong educational experience and for its instructional expertise and diverse student body. Nevertheless, the School readily accepts the need to rememdy the LCME's concerns and will work promptly and diligently to do so.

The LCME is the nationally recognized accrediting authority for medical education programs leading to the MD degree in U.S. and Canadian medical schools. All medical schools must undergo review every eight years to be accredited by the LCME through the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) and the American Medical Association (AMA).

If you have any questions regarding this information, please visit the GW School of Medicine and Health Sciences at http://www.gwumc.edu/smhs/lcme/; contact the GW School of Medicine and Health Sciences Office of Admissions at [email protected] or call (202) 994-3506. We want to ensure that your questions and concerns will be promptly addressed."
 
So sorry for my sarcasm earlier, the rumors are true! just got an E-mail from GW"

"We are contacting you on behalf of the GW School of Medicine and Health Sciences. We are pleased that you are successfully moving through the application process and we want to keep you informed of a recent development.

The George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences completed earlier this month its accreditation process which reviewed the program leading to the MD degree.

As a result of the review, the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME) placed the program on probationary status. All School programs remain fully accredited during the probationary period..."
 
I just got an email from GWU basically confirming this story about probation, so it looks like bob1988 was telling the truth. Here is the official email in its entirety:

[FONT='PrimaSans BT,Verdana,sans-serif']Dear Applicant:

We are contacting you on behalf of the GW School of Medicine and Health Sciences. We are pleased that you are successfully moving through the application process and we want to keep you informed of a recent development.

The George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences completed earlier this month its accreditation process which reviewed the program leading to the MD degree.

As a result of the review, the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME) placed the program on probationary status. All School programs remain fully accredited during the probationary period.

The School is already developing an action plan to correct the noted areas that did not meet the LCME's standards including curriculum management, lounge and study space for students, and internal administrative processes. The School has up to 24 months to address these issues and plans to complete its work within the academic year.

The School is committed to academic excellence and to providing a superior education for its medical students. The LCME commended the School for providing students with a strong educational experience and for its instructional expertise and diverse student body. Nevertheless, the School readily accepts the need to rememdy the LCME's concerns and will work promptly and diligently to do so.

The LCME is the nationally recognized accrediting authority for medical education programs leading to the MD degree in U.S. and Canadian medical schools. All medical schools must undergo review every eight years to be accredited by the LCME through the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) and the American Medical Association (AMA).

If you have any questions regarding this information, please visit the GW School of Medicine and Health Sciences at http://www.gwumc.edu/smhs/lcme/; contact the GW School of Medicine and Health Sciences Office of Admissions at [email protected] or call (202) 994-3506. We want to ensure that your questions and concerns will be promptly addressed.

To learn more about the LCME, visit: www.lcme.org

Contact information for the LCME:

Dan Hunt, MD, MBA
LCME Secretary
Association of American Medical Colleges
2450 N Street NW, Washington, DC 20037
Phone: (202) 828-0596

Barbara Barzansky, PhD
LCME Secretary
Council on Medical Education
American Medical Association
515 North State Street, Chicago, Illinois 60610
Phone: (312) 464-4933


**Please note: This is an AUTOMATED e-mail. DO NOT reply back to this e-mail address ([email protected]) as it will not be answered. Please direct ALL INQUIRIES to [email protected]. Thank you. **


.
 
beat you all!
 
i just received this email as well and the one key issue they failed to address is what this really means for current applicants. anyone have an idea? i guess it is better to just be an applicant at this point and not a med student there. i'm sure they are really wondering what happens.
 
]
office_space_kit_mat.jpg
 
I'm confused...how does this affect us applicants? Will they be able to have an entering class next year?
 
So i got that email...and subsequently withdrew my application.
 
Is it just me or does it seem like you'd have to have a ridiculous deficiency in study/hospital/classroom space in order to be put on probation for it. I haven't seen the campus, is it really that cramped?
 
yes I may withdraw my application as well.

if they aren't up to par by the end of the probationary period, they lose accreditation. do you really want to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to graduate from a school that is unaccredited? you may as well study medicine outside the US, your chances are the same...
 
This will probably reduce their applicant pool from 16000 to 15990.
 
I got the e-mail too. Guess my chances for an interview just went way up. 🙄

Well... even if GW loses its accreditation in 2 yrs, its students can transfer to other institutions, right? Plus, there's a good chance they'll fix their problems so this situation won't occur.
 
i read that their board passage rate for USMLE step 1 was in the low 80s, which also contributed to their probationary status...


of course, that wasn't included in the email they sent me...
 
"We are pleased that you are successfully moving through the application process..."

So being complete for 3 months and hearing nothing = successfully moving through the application process? lol
 
utahjazz said:
"We are pleased that you are successfully moving through the application process..."

So being complete for 3 months and hearing nothing = successfully moving through the application process? lol
Click to expand...

Was thinking the same thing, lol. I wonder whether that automatic went to those already rejected. Like adding salt to the wound.
 
utahjazz said:
"We are pleased that you are successfully moving through the application process..."

So being complete for 3 months and hearing nothing = successfully moving through the application process? lol
Click to expand...
look on the bright side. they know you exist! plus our chances are going way up. everyone keep withdrawing!

I doubt a school thats been around for 100+ years is going to just go under over some minor things. They have the money to make it right. I'm not worried.
 
I am confident that GWU will recover. I will go into the interview and do my best and hope for an acceptance. This issue still bothers me, but hey look at RFU and Albany. There has been talks about how these schools are still or going on probation and yet, they are still churning out good MDs. Think what you may, but I don't think DC will let GWU fall without a fight. Plus, it seems to be an issue over facility/space, as oppose to quality of education as the GW student hinted earlier in the post. (fingers crossed)
 
chessodoc said:
Was thinking the same thing, lol. I wonder whether that automatic went to those already rejected. Like adding salt to the wound.
Click to expand...

Oh Jeez... now that would be awful. Although they might feel a little better about the rejection.
 
ChubbyChaser said:
So i got that email...and subsequently withdrew my application.
Click to expand...

Me too.
EDIT: And, they responded with a form letter letting me know that I have been successfuly withdrawn almost immediately afterwords. They must be using this alot.
 
QTLyss said:
look on the bright side. they know you exist! plus our chances are going way up. everyone keep withdrawing!

I doubt a school thats been around for 100+ years is going to just go under over some minor things. They have the money to make it right. I'm not worried.
Click to expand...

Heh, that's true. Thanks for the optimism. 🙂

I wouldn't be too worried either... this is just a minor bump in the road. There is no doubt that they will be motivated to fix the problems ASAP.
 
so is a pre-interview hold as this point essentially a rejection?
 
Decicco said:
Me too.
EDIT: And, they responded with a form letter letting me know that I have been successfuly withdrawn almost immediately afterwords. They must be using this alot.
Click to expand...
No fair. you guys already have acceptances you don't count.
 
QTLyss said:
No fair. you guys already have acceptances you don't count.
Click to expand...

True, I don't think this accredidation thing is all that big a deal, and I would have stayed in if I didn't have an acceptance. Plus this way I don't get rejected and damage my ego 😉, I've been complete for 2 months.
 
all this commotion is making me nervous. Why couldn't this happen after my interview at GWU. Sheez, I hope there isn't an awkward vibe when I get there next week.
 
Decicco said:
True, I don't think this accredidation thing is all that big a deal, and I would have stayed in if I didn't have an acceptance. Plus this way I don't get rejected and damage my ego 😉, I've been complete for 2 months.
Click to expand...
hahaha im so with you on that one....it will probably blow over, but idk how this will affect the school in terms of reputation and whatnot.
 
no one besides SDN or whoever applied to GWU will ever know about it......or care
 
Throughout this process, I have been impressed with the way a number of schools have handled their admissions process.

George Washington was not one of those institutions. Their status check website is obsolete and largely uninformative. The secondary fee was exorbitant, yet unselective. My letters were sent over two months ago and my application is still not complete. Even if I looked past these transgressions and obtained an acceptance, their tuition is one of the most expensive (most expensive?). If the characterization I have developed over the past few months is accurate, I am not surprised that such inadequacies are indicative of other facets of their institution.

For such a drastic measure to be taken, I am pretty sure that the grievances were severe enough to merit attention.
 
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