2013-2014 Stony Brook University Application Thread

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MeatTornado said:
1. I'm assuming you're a current student. This is certainly not the place to voice your displeasure with the curriculum changes.
2. as the person who brought video recording lectures to the school i'm flattered that you think they've had that much of an impact. it doesn't come as a shock that videotaped lectures have made in-person lectures obsolete and hence the change. whether this is the optimal way to do things is yet to be determined but it is certainly in line with the national trend (both PBL and truncated preclinical curriculum) and a step in the right direction
3. it seems that the vast majority of posters here don't see the real value of having 1.5 year preclinical curriculum. starting fourth year earlier is fantastic and a huge advantage. in the old system you started fourth year in july and basically had 2 months before your ERAS was due. Every additional month during fourth year is an opportunity to strengthen your application whether it's doing aways, taking step 2 or doing subIs and electives at your home institution. Any change that adds more clinical elective time should be welcomed with open arms. unfortunately premeds in the application process tend to ignore the clinical education portion of the curriculum because they don't understand the intricacies of it and have no exposure to clinical students during their visits yet this is where the starkest differences between schools lies. a couple hours a day of PBL during the first two years for a couple more months of clinical elective time is a trade you should be happy to make. also keep in mind it's not like there wasn't any PBL/small group stuff in the old curriculum.
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Thank you for the thorough reply MeatTornado. I really appreciate it. I have few questions for you if you do not mind.
Did they run like a pilot program? Maybe not with 120 people but with like 20 people maybe? And if so, how did that go?
And my biggest concern is the preparation for the Step 1. Since you are compressing the preclinical to 1.5 years, does that mean we have less time to prepare for the Step 1?
I remember at the second look faculties said about a month is enough to prepare for the Step 1 but I don't know if that is true...
Also concerned about fewer lectures by the faculties/professors. But I guess the amount of knowledge we obtain all depends on how "actively" we learn on our own.
It just seems like a lot of change all of a sudden. But again, I am not sure how different this is from the former curriculum since you said you used to have PBL/small group studies.
Sorry, I am just being angsty since I have to decide in like 4 days. And I really loved Stony Brook when I visited for the interview and for the second look.
Thank you guys for your help. I really appreciate it.
 
kasukabe81 said:
And my biggest concern is the preparation for the Step 1. Since you are compressing the preclinical to 1.5 years, does that mean we have less time to prepare for the Step 1?
I remember at the second look faculties said about a month is enough to prepare for the Step 1 but I don't know if that is true...
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As far as step 1 preparation, it looks like we're getting around 6 weeks off. Which I hear is the same amount of time off the old curriculum gave as well.
 
tewpac said:
As far as step 1 preparation, it looks like we're getting around 6 weeks off. Which I hear is the same amount of time off the old curriculum gave as well.
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Right, but you have to factor in the hours you waste every day on low yield PBL material and your commute while actually building that knowledge base. As well as having only 1.5 years to learn that information.
 
gunnershow said:
Right, but you have to factor in the hours you waste every day on low yield PBL material and your commute while actually building that knowledge base. As well as having only 1.5 years to learn that information.
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I am not sure if the PBL will be low yield necessarily. But I have never done it so I don't know...
Yeah, and the reasoning behind the compression of the preclinical is kind of weak for me. Why not just do PBL and case based and not make it shorter?
The other school I am considering is Medical College of Wisconsin. It's a good school but I liked the people and the atmosphere at Stony Brook better. Hence the dilemma....
 
MeatTornado said:
1. I'm assuming you're a current student. This is certainly not the place to voice your displeasure with the curriculum changes.
2. as the person who brought video recording lectures to the school i'm flattered that you think they've had that much of an impact. it doesn't come as a shock that videotaped lectures have made in-person lectures obsolete and hence the change. whether this is the optimal way to do things is yet to be determined but it is certainly in line with the national trend (both PBL and truncated preclinical curriculum) and a step in the right direction
3. it seems that the vast majority of posters here don't see the real value of having 1.5 year preclinical curriculum. starting fourth year earlier is fantastic and a huge advantage. in the old system you started fourth year in july and basically had 2 months before your ERAS was due. Every additional month during fourth year is an opportunity to strengthen your application whether it's doing aways, taking step 2 or doing subIs and electives at your home institution. Any change that adds more clinical elective time should be welcomed with open arms. unfortunately premeds in the application process tend to ignore the clinical education portion of the curriculum because they don't understand the intricacies of it and have no exposure to clinical students during their visits yet this is where the starkest differences between schools lies. a couple hours a day of PBL during the first two years for a couple more months of clinical elective time is a trade you should be happy to make. also keep in mind it's not like there wasn't any PBL/small group stuff in the old curriculum.
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Why, again, should we have to make "tradeoffs"? Why can't we just have a 1.5 year preclinical education that's tailored to helping you efficiently study high-yield information instead of wasting our time with mandatory PBLs every day? Why not make the PBLs optional for those whom it might benefit? Saying that "oh it's the current zeitgeist so we're making the change" isn't an excuse when the overwhelming majority of medical students are unsatisfied with the PBL format.

In-person lectures became obsolete for a reason -- students found they could watch the same material while managing their time better (studying at their own pace, watching the lectures at 2x speed, not having to commute, etc). It's not like the professor's lecture was for naught. So why would we take all this precious time students have managed to save up and waste it with highly inefficient mandatory group sessions?
 
kasukabe81 said:
I am not sure if the PBL will be low yield necessarily. But I have never done it so I don't know...
Yeah, and the reasoning behind the compression of the preclinical is kind of weak for me. Why not just do PBL and case based and not make it shorter?
The other school I am considering is Medical College of Wisconsin. It's a good school but I liked the people and the atmosphere at Stony Brook better. Hence the dilemma....
Click to expand...
I would suggest you talk to current MS1s and MS2s at Stony Brook and they will corroborate what I'm saying. If you can't reach them, just Google "problem based learning sdn" and read the perspectives offered by people who've endured it. Even if a PBL session covers a high yield topic, it will take 2 hours to cover something you could have learned in 20.
 
gunnershow said:
I would suggest you talk to current MS1s and MS2s at Stony Brook and they will corroborate what I'm saying. If you can't reach them, just Google "problem based learning sdn" and read the perspectives offered by people who've endured it. Even if a PBL session covers a high yield topic, it will take 2 hours to cover something you could have learned in 20.
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Yeah, I get what you mean. I was just curious why Stony Brook made such drastic change.
I understand if they have PBL/case based/group study maybe once or twice a week, but they are having it everyday.
And the lecture time is only couple hours a day. Also more than 50% of your grade from non-multiple choice. Isn't Step 1 all multiple choice?
I'm just worried if I will gain enough knowledge from mostly PBL learning. I wish it was like supplemental thing...
 
gunnershow said:
Right, but you have to factor in the hours you waste every day on low yield PBL material and your commute while actually building that knowledge base. As well as having only 1.5 years to learn that information.
Click to expand...

Most students I know only have a 10-15 minute commute. Just sayin.
 
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I'm actually really excited about the curriculum change myself, mostly for the reason meat tornado described about having more time to prepare for applying for competitive residencies, but also because I think I typically function better in that format than in the traditional self guided learning style. If I stay at home I just get less done than if I wake up early and go to school and go to a study group or library or other environment where everyone else is working. I actually wrote a really passionate LOI/update to stony brook about 10 days back because I'm really hoping to get off the waitlist here, so I'll be keeping my fingers crossed to get one of the spots that opens up. Only 3 more days til the 15th.
 
wannabeMD19 said:
Most students I know only have a 10-15 minute commute. Just sayin.
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Sample size? Because I talked to some on my interview trail and at SB Revisited and I was told of 30-40 minute commutes were common, especially for people who lived at home with parents. Also heard that 15 minute driving turns into 30 minutes door-to-door given the daytime traffic on 347 and Nicolls Rd, parking, and making your way to class. Maybe this is less important if you're not a girl, but I like to make myself somewhat presentable before going to school, so there's that too.

All I know is that ~hour a day could be better spent studying, or, god forbid, relaxing. Also, you highlighted "hours" and contrasted it with a typical short commute, but as you know, that is meant to be a sum of commute+classtime.
 
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HopesandDreams said:
I'm actually really excited about the curriculum change myself, mostly for the reason meat tornado described about having more time to prepare for applying for competitive residencies, but also because I think I typically function better in that format than in the traditional self guided learning style. If I stay at home I just get less done than if I wake up early and go to school and go to a study group or library or other environment where everyone else is working. I actually wrote a really passionate LOI/update to stony brook about 10 days back because I'm really hoping to get off the waitlist here, so I'll be keeping my fingers crossed to get one of the spots that opens up. Only 3 more days til the 15th.
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Well you should know that this format is actually mostly self-directed:
  • Professional identity formation is aided by early clinical exposure and commitment to self-directed learning
  • We will shift the major emphasis of our curriculum to “student learning”
  • Students will have the primary responsibility of learning the materials and achieving the SOM competencies. Faculty will serve as facilitators and mentors.
Personally, I think this is the most welcome change in the curriculum. Would be all for it if not paired with mandatory, daily PBL.
 
gunnershow said:
Sample size? Because I talked to some on my interview trail and at SB Revisited and I was told of 30-40 minute commutes were common, especially for people who lived at home with parents. Also heard that 15 minute driving turns into 30 minutes door-to-door given the daytime traffic on 347 and Nicolls Rd, parking, and making your way to class. Maybe this is less important if you're not a girl, but I like to make myself somewhat presentable before going to school, so there's that too.

All I know is that ~hour a day could be better spent studying, or, god forbid, relaxing. Also, you highlighted "hours" and contrasted it with a typical short commute, but as you know, that is meant to be a sum of commute+classtime.
Click to expand...

Commute is no different than if you were to commute to work.

If you don't want to attend Stony Brook, which you obviously don't, then maybe you should stop posting on here. You sound like a troll with how argumentative you are.
 
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wannabeMD19 said:
Commute is no different than if you were to commute to work.

If you don't want to attend Stony Brook, which you obviously don't, then maybe you should stop posting on here. You're starting to sound "troll-like" with how argumentative you are.
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gunnershow said:
Sample size? Because I talked to some on my interview trail and at SB Revisited and I was told of 30-40 minute commutes were common, especially for people who lived at home with parents. Also heard that 15 minute driving turns into 30 minutes door-to-door given the daytime traffic on 347 and Nicolls Rd, parking, and making your way to class. Maybe this is less important if you're not a girl, but I like to make myself somewhat presentable before going to school, so there's that too.

All I know is that ~hour a day could be better spent studying, or, god forbid, relaxing. Also, you highlighted "hours" and contrasted it with a typical short commute, but as you know, that is meant to be a sum of commute+classtime.
Click to expand...

You can live right next to campus or you can listen to goljan pathology everyday for 1 hour-in the shower, making yourself presentable, in the car, walking to class, eating lunch--if you really want to save time, there are always things you can easily do.
 
gunnershow said:
Well you should know that this format is actually mostly self-directed:
  • Professional identity formation is aided by early clinical exposure and commitment to self-directed learning
  • We will shift the major emphasis of our curriculum to “student learning”
  • Students will have the primary responsibility of learning the materials and achieving the SOM competencies. Faculty will serve as facilitators and mentors.
Personally, I think this is the most welcome change in the curriculum. Would be all for it if not paired with mandatory, daily PBL.
Click to expand...

Am I mistaken in thinking that lectures are still going to be video recorded and streamed every morning?... That's what I thought I read in the LEARN curriculum plan? (Maybe I'm wrong?) So at least PBL seems to be the only mandatory sessions that you need to actually physically attend..
 
hplssrmantcxox said:
Am I mistaken in thinking that lectures are still going to be video recorded and streamed every morning?... That's what I thought I read in the LEARN curriculum plan? (Maybe I'm wrong?) So at least PBL seems to be the only mandatory sessions that you need to actually physically attend..
Click to expand...

You are correct. Lectures will still happen and be recorded/live-streamed.
 
gunnershow said:
I would suggest you talk to current MS1s and MS2s at Stony Brook and they will corroborate what I'm saying. If you can't reach them, just Google "problem based learning sdn" and read the perspectives offered by people who've endured it. Even if a PBL session covers a high yield topic, it will take 2 hours to cover something you could have learned in 20.
Click to expand...

I mentioned before I've gotten mixed opinions on PBL--some people love it, others hate it. Yes, I've always been more of a self-leaner. Never studied or learned in small groups, rarely attended lectures etc. That doesn't mean I won't thrive in a small group environment. I understand that as a commuter, mandatory sessions are going to be annoying, but other than that I'll take some PBL sessions every week in return for a 1.5 yr curriculum. And the curriculum aside, I am choosing Stony Brook for a number of other reasons as well.

Bottom line, if you're coming in with the mentality that these sessions are gonna be a waste of time, of course you're gonna hate it. If you have other school options, then you can weigh all the pluses and minuses and maybe find a better fit. If you do choose to attend, come in with open mind.
 
gunnershow said:
Sample size? Because I talked to some on my interview trail and at SB Revisited and I was told of 30-40 minute commutes were common, especially for people who lived at home with parents. Also heard that 15 minute driving turns into 30 minutes door-to-door given the daytime traffic on 347 and Nicolls Rd, parking, and making your way to class. Maybe this is less important if you're not a girl, but I like to make myself somewhat presentable before going to school, so there's that too.

All I know is that ~hour a day could be better spent studying, or, god forbid, relaxing. Also, you highlighted "hours" and contrasted it with a typical short commute, but as you know, that is meant to be a sum of commute+classtime.
Click to expand...

Hold on you're a premed?!? Get out of here! If you don't like the new curriculum that much then good riddance to you. Don't attend the school and stop wasting everyone's time by posting in this forum.

For the record yes the vast majority of people have less than a 10-15 minute commute. Traffic that doubles your commute time is very rare unless there were some extenuating circumstances (like snow storms and accidents)
 
MeatTornado said:
Hold on you're a premed?!? Get out of here! If you don't like the new curriculum that much then good riddance to you. Don't attend the school and stop wasting everyone's time by posting in this forum.

For the record yes the vast majority of people have less than a 10-15 minute commute. Traffic that doubles your commute time is very rare unless there were some extenuating circumstances (like snow storms and accidents)
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Thanks for the substantive response to my comments I made to you. It's easier to dismiss than to actually craft an answer to reasoned criticism, I suppose.
 
gunnershow said:
Thanks for the substantive response to my comments I made to you. It's easier to dismiss than to actually craft an answer to reasoned criticism, I suppose.
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I think the sentiment is that you've made your point, and it serves no purpose to continue your critical/confrontational comments about the school. If you don't like PBL and a commute, that's fine, don't go to Stony Brook. You don't have to convince everyone here to do the same.
 
wannabeMD19 said:
Commute is no different than if you were to commute to work.

If you don't want to attend Stony Brook, which you obviously don't, then maybe you should stop posting on here. You sound like a troll with how argumentative you are.
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Well it'd be nice to "work from home" as many medical students do, but regardless, the commute was just a cursory comment I made -- the brunt of my concern is about the curriculum itself. If you read other comments, you see that I'm not the only one with concerns and aren't the only one to withdraw my acceptance over them. It's a pity because I really did want to go here.
BTW, I could do without the namecalling -- I've been nothing if not on-topic and I didn't have to resort to ad hominems at that.
 
I just withdrew. I was incredibly impressed, especially with the staff, but I ultimately decided that the new curriculum and cold climate weren't quite for me.
 
Re: the curriculum - PBL is usually a waste of time, but Stony Brook's changes are based directly off curricula from other schools (mostly Johns Hopkins and Case Western I think). Preclinical years are largely self-study for most med students anyway. The most important thing you guys should be thinking about is the extra elective time at the end of 3rd year, which is much more important for your residency app than anything you could do in the preclinical years besides step 1.
 
gunnershow said:
Well it'd be nice to "work from home" as many medical students do, but regardless, the commute was just a cursory comment I made -- the brunt of my concern is about the curriculum itself. If you read other comments, you see that I'm not the only one with concerns and aren't the only one to withdraw my acceptance over them. It's a pity because I really did want to go here.
BTW, I could do without the namecalling -- I've been nothing if not on-topic and I didn't have to resort to ad hominems at that.
Click to expand...


If you've withdrawn, then please stop with the commentary.
 
gunnershow said:
Well it'd be nice to "work from home" as many medical students do, but regardless, the commute was just a cursory comment I made -- the brunt of my concern is about the curriculum itself. If you read other comments, you see that I'm not the only one with concerns and aren't the only one to withdraw my acceptance over them. It's a pity because I really did want to go here.
BTW, I could do without the namecalling -- I've been nothing if not on-topic and I didn't have to resort to ad hominems at that.
Click to expand...

Oh come on. Virtually every single post you've made on SDN has been critical of SB. This is especially galling since you've already withdrawn.

Armchair curriculum'ing (especially as a pre-med), is very easy to do. PBL and small groups are good for some and not for others. Some people like self-learning and others emphatically do not. Poll 4 different medical students and you'll get 6 different opinions. I can say that changes were necessary and students at SB have acknowledged that fact.

If you want to continue you in this vein, please do so in forum of the school you ARE attending.
 
Not that I disagree with everything that gunnershow has said, but could it be possible that this person is a troll trying to dissuade others from attending Stony Brook in hopes of getting off their waitlist? I'm always dubious about post counts under 20 and with a username like that...
 
midnight0il said:
Not that I disagree with everything that gunnershow has said, but could it be possible that this person is a troll trying to dissuade others from attending Stony Brook in hopes of getting off their waitlist? I'm always dubious about post counts under 20 and with a username like that...
Click to expand...
Hah, I like that, but no. I implore everyone to stay at SBU if it's a good fit for them. The username is tongue-in-cheek. The reason I've been commenting here is because I wanted to go here (family lives close by) to save money, so I was pretty disappointed by the changes. So were the students already at SBU, who surprisingly admitted to such at Revisited (I didn't expect that kind of honesty). Regardless, I agree that this discussion isn't really going anywhere (I was mostly hoping for meattornado to respond to post#664 -- was curious to hear his perspective), so I'll take my leave unless called upon.
 
gunnershow said:
Hah, I like that, but no. I implore everyone to stay at SBU if it's a good fit for them. The username is tongue-in-cheek. The reason I've been commenting here is because I wanted to go here (family lives close by) to save money, so I was pretty disappointed by the changes. So were the students already at SBU, who surprisingly admitted to such at Revisited (I didn't expect that kind of honesty). Regardless, I agree that this discussion isn't really going anywhere (I was mostly hoping for meattornado to respond to post#664 -- was curious to hear his perspective), so I'll take my leave unless called upon.
Click to expand...
I was also at Revisited. I don't recall any of the students badmouthing the new curriculum to the degree that you did (or at all), but I guess it depends on who you spoke with. The current students that I spoke with seemed genuinely happy with their decisions. Badmouthing a school that you're not going to attend anyway is in bad form, but I do applaud you for pointing out some cons that other people may have missed. I think we're all adults here and it's our responsibility to do our own research when it comes to deciding which medical school we'd like to attend.
 
midnight0il said:
I was also at Revisited. I don't recall any of the students badmouthing the new curriculum to the degree that you did (or at all), but I guess it depends on who you spoke with. The current students that I spoke with seemed genuinely happy with their decisions. Badmouthing a school that you're not going to attend anyway is in bad form, but I do applaud you for pointing out some cons that other people may have missed. I think we're all adults here and it's our responsibility to do our own research when it comes to deciding which medical school we'd like to attend.
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The school itself is really excellent! Maybe I should have made that more clear -- I mean to divorce my concerns about the curriculum from any judgment of the school. It's a matter of 'fit', not quality.
 
gunnershow said:
The school itself is really excellent! Maybe I should have made that more clear -- I mean to divorce my concerns about the curriculum from any judgment of the school. It's a matter of 'fit', not quality.
Click to expand...
Why don't you clear things up by explaining why you don't think that there is a fit.
 
I'm withdrawing -- hope one of you gets my spot. Good luck!
 
Does anyone know the date for this year's white coat ceremony?
 
For those others out there also on the waiting list like myself, I called the office last week to inquire when they expect movement from the waitinglist and was told not before June.
 
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HopesandDreams said:
For those others out there also on the waiting list like myself, I called the office last week to inquire when they expect movement from the waitinglist and was told not before June.
Click to expand...


Seems like many are withdrawing (which is typical at state schools) so there should be lots of waitlist movement. Good luck and hope to see you in class in August!
 
wannabeMD19 said:
Seems like many are withdrawing (which is typical at state schools) so there should be lots of waitlist movement. Good luck and hope to see you in class in August!
Click to expand...
Reading through the thread that is the impression one gets, however it's possible that they've already anticipated a portion of the withdraws and have already offered more acceptances than seats. Either way I will be keeping my fingers crossed. Thank you for the kind words and I hope to see you in class too!
 
HopesandDreams said:
Reading through the thread that is the impression one gets, however it's possible that they've already anticipated a portion of the withdraws and have already offered more acceptances than seats. Either way I will be keeping my fingers crossed. Thank you for the kind words and I hope to see you in class too!
Click to expand...
You can submit AMCAS and get almost a full refund if you get accepted off the waitlist before it's verified.
 
Has anyone on the HPWL heard back yet? The waiting game sucks :penguin:
 
I really really want to attend Stony Brook. Are the curricular changes warranted enough to not attend Stony Brook? My next choice is Buffalo.

So in other words.. is all this worth going to Buffalo instead of SB?
 
flyingeagle1234 said:
I really really want to attend Stony Brook. Are the curricular changes warranted enough to not attend Stony Brook? My next choice is Buffalo.

So in other words.. is all this worth going to Buffalo instead of SB?
Click to expand...

Nothing is worth going to buffalo over SB ;-)
 
Hey guys,
Is everyone still waiting for a FA offer? or how long does it take to get an offer after your acceptance?
Thanks!
 
For the official FA package, you have to wait Til June but if you want an unofficial estimate, they said at second look that you can email the financial aid office and they'll try to get for you as soon as possible

Also, I went back and forth for a while and it was a tough decision cause of my own past connection with the medical school but I will be withdrawing my acceptance here 🙁 . Good luck to anyone on the wait list!!
 
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neilpryde21 said:
For the official FA package, you have to wait Til June but if you want an unofficial estimate, they said at second look that you can email the financial aid office and they'll try to get for you as soon as possible

Also, I went back and forth for a while and it was a tough decision cause of my own past connection with the medical school but I will be withdrawing my acceptance here 🙁 . Good luck to anyone on the wait list!!
Click to expand...
Why did you withdraw?
 
Any idea what the dress code is for pre-orientation? Business-casual, casual, etc?
 
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