*2016-2017 Washington State University Application Thread

[808s_and_ECGs]

Yeah gonna be flying to Spokane in a few hours

Cool, see you tomorrow morning! I'm on the 4PM flight from Seattle.

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[psychedskier]

There is always US-12 or US-20...both very nice drives.

 

[hopefuldoc24]

There is always US-12 or US-20...both very nice drives.

Stevens is the next closest for me.

 

[SergeantBuzzKill]

Just got an email saying that an error in their system caused my application not to meet the deadline or a requirement. End result: my application will not be considered this cycle.

To those who are contemplating calling the office over a potential error, I would highly recommend it rather than finding out this way. Best of luck to those with interviews! You're going to be/were great!


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[CamBam425]

Just got an email saying that an error in their system caused my application not to meet the deadline or a requirement. End result: my application will not be considered this cycle.

To those who are contemplating calling the office over a potential error, I would highly recommend it rather than finding out this way. Best of luck to those with interviews! You're going to be/were great!


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Same here, kinda awful :/ Good luck to everyone interviewing!

 

[hopefuldoc24]

Same here, kinda awful :/ Good luck to everyone interviewing!

I would call the Deans office over that. That's not very professional if it's an error on their end. Hopefully you'll get in somewhere else anyways.

 

[freak7]

I would call the Deans office over that. That's not very professional if it's an error on their end. Hopefully you'll get in somewhere else anyways.

If nothing else, they should get their primary and secondary fees refunded

 

[Whyamionhere]

Just got an email saying that an error in their system caused my application not to meet the deadline or a requirement. End result: my application will not be considered this cycle.

To those who are contemplating calling the office over a potential error, I would highly recommend it rather than finding out this way. Best of luck to those with interviews! You're going to be/were great!


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Ummmm what the hell?!!! This is awful I'm sorry

 

[psychedskier]

Ummmm what the hell?!!! This is awful I'm sorry

I second this.

 

[hopefuldoc24]

This isn't good PR for a new school.

 

[freak7]

This isn't good PR for a new school.

We should protest. I vote tomorrow in downtown Seattle.

... oh wait, I think some other groups may have that time slot

Edit: plus there'd be about 6 of us

 

[WAnative]

No interview invites today?

 

[mavric1298]

No interview invites today?

Total speculation but I think they might be done with II's based on there was only one date available when I got mine, which was March 24th...


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[Munchkinman1]

Just got an email saying that an error in their system caused my application not to meet the deadline or a requirement. End result: my application will not be considered this cycle.

To those who are contemplating calling the office over a potential error, I would highly recommend it rather than finding out this way. Best of luck to those with interviews! You're going to be/were great!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

That's insane. Did you just get the "secondary received" email and assume they had everything together?

 

[SergeantBuzzKill]

That's insane. Did you just get the "secondary received" email and assume they had everything together?

Yup, got the secondary received email and everything... oh well, what's done is done.


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[DatInterviewDood]

for those that interviewed can you answer any of my questions or redirect me:

Will WSU have traditional lectures?

Are lectures mandatory?

Are lectures recorded?

Is there a group learning component to the curriculum?

Are students internally ranked?

 

[Microphile]

for those that interviewed can you answer any of my questions or redirect me:

Will WSU have traditional lectures?

Are lectures mandatory?

Are lectures recorded?

Is there a group learning component to the curriculum?

Are students internally ranked?

Hmm... I don't know the answers to most of your questions, but...

On the interview day, we toured one of the lecture rooms, so I'm going to guess there will be traditional lectures, lol.

And it's kind of a blur in my mind, but I think they told us that we would be put into one of four learning communities consisting of fifteen people each and are to be supervised by one of the vice deans...

Other than that, they did emphasize how team-based learning and interprofessionalism will be incorporated into the curriculum.

I have no idea if the students are internally ranked. Is this something med students usually dread or want?

Anyway, I'm curious about these questions too, if anyone else has other inputs.


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[PushingArrows]

for those that interviewed can you answer any of my questions or redirect me:

Will WSU have traditional lectures?

Are lectures recorded?

My impression is that it will be a mix of flipped classroom and traditional (depending on lecturer and topic), but this (and everything below) comes with the caveat that in a situation like this (brand new school) everything is probably in flux. While I think the specifics could change, the more qualitative impression that I got (an impression that came from everyone from faculty to the dean) was the desire to be cutting edge with both technology and pedagogy.

The nursing and pharma school lectures are video recorded. Because of the interprofessional aspects of the school, I think it's reasonable to extrapolate that the existing culture of the other related schools on campus won't be all that dissimilar from the ESFCOM. Plus the administration is technology-friendly. Plus, the learning communities structure means that at times some portion of the class of 60 might be visiting their offsite communities and will therefore need to utilize video lectures.

If you look at their "curriculum > highlights" web page you can infer whether what I wrote above is on target, I think.

for those that interviewed can you answer any of my questions or redirect me:

Are lectures mandatory?

Are students internally ranked?

I didn't ask if lectures were mandatory, partly because I have learned from experience that for my learning style there is significant value to being physically engaged and present. I have much greater personal satisfaction when I learn among others in a collaborative environment. Luckily for me, schools that are mission-focused seem to have smaller cohorts and attract more cooperative types.

My own impression from many other SDN threads is that internal ranking basically happens at every school, whether it is disclosed to students or not. I have the luck of being interested in primary care, which means I am not stressing about being the best-of-the-best-of-the-best on paper (via rankings and whatever else), and would rather focus on trying to have a medical school experience where I become the best possible student physician I can be (rather than, for example, focusing on sabotaging my peers to improve my own ranking), and do everything I can to help my peers in their own journeys to be technically excellent and compassionate clinicians. So take what I say with a grain of salt, because it's not something I've focused on and I am just repeating what I've read, but my understanding is that even at P/F schools that say they don't rank, there is some hidden ranking, because dean's letters for residency applications would put students at a disadvantage if they didn't contain something alluding to ranking. At minimum there would likely be honors.

Maybe i'm just an inveterate idealist, but I would hope that for those who want to get into super competitive residencies, there would be a way that your peers can be allies rather than adversaries. I recognize that I am drawn to primary care for the underserved, but that doesn't mean the world doesn't need radiologists, dermatologists, etc. And the underserved need excellent radiologists and dermatologists too. Hopefully every ESFCOM student who happens to find their calling in a competitive niche can count on their peers as allies in an effort to do amazing things; to distinguish themselves based on the substance of their achievements rather than internal student rankings. If you were interviewing candidates for a residency slot, would you want the candidate who built something amazing / innovated some new idea, or the candidate who "was in the top x% of their class"? So it's my hope that the culture at ESFCOM will be one that encourages the former. (Sorry for writing a novel.)

 

[SSSMDt]

My impression is that it will be a mix of flipped classroom and traditional (depending on lecturer and topic), but this (and everything below) comes with the caveat that in a situation like this (brand new school) everything is probably in flux. While I think the specifics could change, the more qualitative impression that I got (an impression that came from everyone from faculty to the dean) was the desire to be cutting edge with both technology and pedagogy.

The nursing and pharma school lectures are video recorded. Because of the interprofessional aspects of the school, I think it's reasonable to extrapolate that the existing culture of the other related schools on campus won't be all that dissimilar from the ESFCOM. Plus the administration is technology-friendly. Plus, the learning communities structure means that at times some portion of the class of 60 might be visiting their offsite communities and will therefore need to utilize video lectures.

If you look at their "curriculum > highlights" web page you can infer whether what I wrote above is on target, I think.



I didn't ask if lectures were mandatory, partly because I have learned from experience that for my learning style there is significant value to being physically engaged and present. I have much greater personal satisfaction when I learn among others in a collaborative environment. Luckily for me, schools that are mission-focused seem to have smaller cohorts and attract more cooperative types.

My own impression from many other SDN threads is that internal ranking basically happens at every school, whether it is disclosed to students or not. I have the luck of being interested in primary care, which means I am not stressing about being the best-of-the-best-of-the-best on paper (via rankings and whatever else), and would rather focus on trying to have a medical school experience where I become the best possible student physician I can be (rather than, for example, focusing on sabotaging my peers to improve my own ranking), and do everything I can to help my peers in their own journeys to be technically excellent and compassionate clinicians. So take what I say with a grain of salt, because it's not something I've focused on and I am just repeating what I've read, but my understanding is that even at P/F schools that say they don't rank, there is some hidden ranking, because dean's letters for residency applications would put students at a disadvantage if they didn't contain something alluding to ranking. At minimum there would likely be honors.

Maybe i'm just an inveterate idealist, but I would hope that for those who want to get into super competitive residencies, there would be a way that your peers can be allies rather than adversaries. I recognize that I am drawn to primary care for the underserved, but that doesn't mean the world doesn't need radiologists, dermatologists, etc. And the underserved need excellent radiologists and dermatologists too. Hopefully every ESFCOM student who happens to find their calling in a competitive niche can count on their peers as allies in an effort to do amazing things; to distinguish themselves based on the substance of their achievements rather than internal student rankings. If you were interviewing candidates for a residency slot, would you want the candidate who built something amazing / innovated some new idea, or the candidate who "was in the top x% of their class"? So it's my hope that the culture at ESFCOM will be one that encourages the former. (Sorry for writing a novel.)

I totally agree with you PushingArrows.. Im really hoping that by going to ESFCOM there will be a much more collaborative culture that we build there over competitiveness. And I think just by virtue of having a small class that is the charter class for the school we'll have to rely on one another more than at other schools. This is one of the things that actually gets me so excited about ESFCOM.

 

[hopefuldoc24]

Most med schools are trying to make things less cut throat. I think it's unlikely for students to sabotage each other. How do you sabotage another student? Answer their questions incorrectly on purpose?

 

[mavric1298]

Most med schools are trying to make things less cut throat. I think it's unlikely for students to sabotage each other. How do you sabotage another student? Answer their questions incorrectly on purpose?

It happens more than you would think - having the learn the wrong things, tearing pages out of library books, making plans and canceling them last minute....there is a lot of ****ttty things that go on. Unfortunately. It really is a school to schoo thing though from what I've seen/heard from my friends going through the process


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[PushingArrows]

...I think it's unlikely for students to sabotage each other. How do you sabotage another student?

For example: [link to individual post within SDN thread: here] "...an M2 at Georgetown was just telling me how she went to the library to read a textbook page that the professor said would be on the exam, only to find someone had torn that page out. They use a strict curve. Whereas my friend at GW, which uses the second grading style, always talks about how his classmates are happy to share notes."

That might be an extreme example, but it represents the sort of environment I'm afraid of ending up in. Anyone sharp enough to end up in medical school is sharp enough to eventually figure out that ranking and curves mean either they need to do better, or they need to figure out how to ensure others do worse. This creates all sorts of perverse incentives (sabotage, cheating, etc). And even if you can survive it with your integrity intact, it's not enjoyable (to me). I do recognize that there are different learning styles and different preferences though, so if someone is reading this and that sort of environment is exciting to you, please don't take offense, I am only saying it isn't for me; if it's what gets you excited, then follow your passion.

 

[hopefuldoc24]

For example: [link to individual post within SDN thread: here] "...an M2 at Georgetown was just telling me how she went to the library to read a textbook page that the professor said would be on the exam, only to find someone had torn that page out. They use a strict curve. Whereas my friend at GW, which uses the second grading style, always talks about how his classmates are happy to share notes."

That might be an extreme example, but it represents the sort of environment I'm afraid of ending up in. Anyone sharp enough to end up in medical school is sharp enough to eventually figure out that ranking and curves mean either they need to do better, or they need to figure out how to ensure others do worse. This creates all sorts of perverse incentives (sabotage, cheating, etc). And even if you can survive it with your integrity intact, it's not enjoyable (to me). I do recognize that there are different learning styles and different preferences though, so if someone is reading this and that sort of environment is exciting to you, please don't take offense, I am only saying it isn't for me; if it's what gets you excited, then follow your passion.

I plan on buying my own books plus so much is online so I doubt something like that is feasible. Just be confident in yourself and be resourceful.

 

[hopefuldoc24]

For example: [link to individual post within SDN thread: here] "...an M2 at Georgetown was just telling me how she went to the library to read a textbook page that the professor said would be on the exam, only to find someone had torn that page out. They use a strict curve. Whereas my friend at GW, which uses the second grading style, always talks about how his classmates are happy to share notes."

That might be an extreme example, but it represents the sort of environment I'm afraid of ending up in. Anyone sharp enough to end up in medical school is sharp enough to eventually figure out that ranking and curves mean either they need to do better, or they need to figure out how to ensure others do worse. This creates all sorts of perverse incentives (sabotage, cheating, etc). And even if you can survive it with your integrity intact, it's not enjoyable (to me). I do recognize that there are different learning styles and different preferences though, so if someone is reading this and that sort of environment is exciting to you, please don't take offense, I am only saying it isn't for me; if it's what gets you excited, then follow your passion.

This is also called vandalism and should be reported to the administration if it's happening often. As for people cancelling study groups you have to be able to rely on yourself and not others so I wouldn't go into med school assuming your must rely on others. Don't get me wrong I like studying with other people but when push comes to shove be self reliant.

 

[MedArtist]

I managed to get an earlier interview date on Jan 28th date due to a cancellation. I will see you guys there this coming weekend

 

[freak7]

Anyone get that weird "would you please take an earlier interview?" Email?

 

[freak7]

Most med schools are trying to make things less cut throat. I think it's unlikely for students to sabotage each other. How do you sabotage another student? Answer their questions incorrectly on purpose?

My favorite is sharing your intentionally incorrect study "guide" with everyone

 

[hopefuldoc24]

Anyone get that weird "would you please take an earlier interview?" Email?

I did not.

 

[colormecolorful]

I did not.

Nothing here either!

 

[Munchkinman1]

Called admissions today. She said they are still sending out interview invites for a few more weeks.

 

[mavric1298]

I got that email and asked for an earlier interview, but didn't get anything back?

Edit; just got a reply - all filled

 

[mavric1298]

This is also called vandalism and should be reported to the administration if it's happening often. As for people cancelling study groups you have to be able to rely on yourself and not others so I wouldn't go into med school assuming your must rely on others. Don't get me wrong I like studying with other people but when push comes to shove be self reliant.

If you think you're going to do it all on your own you'll be in for a surprise. Every single person I know in, or who has gone through med school has relied on other people to some extent. And its sad, but all those things happen - and it's naive to think otherwise. In a ranking system in a field as competitive as medicine, people will often do whatever it takes to serve their own interests.

And you won't remotely be buying all the books and material that are used - unless you plan on having your own medical library. Yes a lot of it is online now and thats becoming more a thing of the past, but is more just a illustration of what can/does go on.

 

[SailorHg]

Called admissions today. She said they are still sending out interview invites for a few more weeks.

Thank you for the update! Hope springs eternal.

 

[Mo3]

I managed to get an earlier interview date on Jan 28th date due to a cancellation. I will see you guys there this coming weekend

+1!

 

[hopefuldoc24]

Called admissions today. She said they are still sending out interview invites for a few more weeks.

WTF?

If you think you're going to do it all on your own you'll be in for a surprise. Every single person I know in, or who has gone through med school has relied on other people to some extent. And its sad, but all those things happen - and it's naive to think otherwise. In a ranking system in a field as competitive as medicine, people will often do whatever it takes to serve their own interests.

And you won't remotely be buying all the books and material that are used - unless you plan on having your own medical library. Yes a lot of it is online now and thats becoming more a thing of the past, but is more just a illustration of what can/does go on.

I'm saying that people do need to learn to be self-reliant. It might be tough but it's necessary. Also we will be the first class. The faculty would not be happy to find pages missing from books because that means they'll have to repurchase. Also I have no problem buying my own book copies if I absolutely have too.

 

[freak7]

Called admissions today. She said they are still sending out interview invites for a few more weeks.

Remember when I told you guys "end of February"?

 

[hopefuldoc24]

I managed to get an earlier interview date on Jan 28th date due to a cancellation. I will see you guys there this coming weekend

When were you originally scheduled?

 

[Tomego]

If you think you're going to do it all on your own you'll be in for a surprise. Every single person I know in, or who has gone through med school has relied on other people to some extent. And its sad, but all those things happen - and it's naive to think otherwise. In a ranking system in a field as competitive as medicine, people will often do whatever it takes to serve their own interests.

And you won't remotely be buying all the books and material that are used - unless you plan on having your own medical library. Yes a lot of it is online now and thats becoming more a thing of the past, but is more just a illustration of what can/does go on.

I will say having gone through law school, I am an attorney, I heard those same horror stories about law school. I never experienced them nor did any of my friends. My friends that were traditional medical students never experienced them either. Im not saying they dont happen, they probably are more common at top tier programs, but they are not that common. I feel like those things have probably happened at every school but sound more common than they are due to exageration and word of mouth.

 

[psychedskier]

I get medicine is competitive, but if you want to sabotage hard working individuals, who genuinely want to serve their communities, just to make sure you are ranked into the most competitive residencies then you shouldn't be a doctor. How man patients will you be willing to give shoty care to in order to maximize your paycheck? I hope no one seriously considers this behavior as acceptable, and if you do, go be a banker. If you have the brains to get into medicine, you have the brains to do finance, you will make more money, and the way people view money, you may even be viewed as more of a humanitarian than you would as a doctor. I will now step down from my box of soap

 

[mavric1298]

I get medicine is competitive, but if you want to sabotage hard working individuals, who genuinely want to serve their communities, just to make sure you are ranked into the most competitive residencies then you shouldn't be a doctor. How man patients will you be willing to give shoty care to in order to maximize your paycheck? I hope no one seriously considers this behavior as acceptable, and if you do, go be a banker. If you have the brains to get into medicine, you have the brains to do finance, you will make more money, and the way people view money, you may even be viewed as more of a humanitarian than you would as a doctor. I will now step down from my box of soap

Totally agree, but the sad fact is there are a LOT of people in medicine for the wrong reasons. It's reflective of our culture as a whole, and while medicine is more slanted towards people who are compassionate etc, that doesn't make it immune from those problems. I've worked in healthcare almost a decade now - and I'll tell you I've seen plenty of surgeons that do questionable elective surgeries just for the money, or docs that recommend unproven treatments because it's cash only, or the dinguses that treat staff like ****, or treat patients terribly.

And again, trying to be self reliant is great and all, but to think you're not going to rely on others at some point is just as ridiculous as thinking that when you do become a doc that you won't need to rely on your patient care team. Medicine is just too large with too much info to do it yourself. Plus one of the most effective tools in learning is to teach to each other - a model that is promoted at many places now, and most schools has small work groups etc.

On another note - got a second reschedule email right after I got the one about all those first spots being full and in "a couple of days more might open". Literally 14 minutes later the second one offered another 4-5 dates. Changed to first available which was feb 17th

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[freak7]

Medicine is just too large with too much info to do it yourself. Plus one of the most effective tools in learning is to teach to each other - a model that is promoted at many places now, and most schools has small work groups etc.


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That and the fact that science is meant to be collaborative in the first place

 

[hopefuldoc24]

Totally agree, but the sad fact is there are a LOT of people in medicine for the wrong reasons. It's reflective of our culture as a whole, and while medicine is more slanted towards people who are compassionate etc, that doesn't make it immune from those problems. I've worked in healthcare almost a decade now - and I'll tell you I've seen plenty of surgeons that do questionable elective surgeries just for the money, or docs that recommend unproven treatments because it's cash only, or the dinguses that treat staff like ****, or treat patients terribly.

And again, trying to be self reliant is great and all, but to think you're not going to rely on others at some point is just as ridiculous as thinking that when you do become a doc that you won't need to rely on your patient care team. Medicine is just too large with too much info to do it yourself. Plus one of the most effective tools in learning is to teach to each other - a model that is promoted at many places now, and most schools has small work groups etc.

On another note - got a second reschedule email right after I got the one about all those first spots being full and in "a couple of days more might open". Literally 14 minutes later the second one offered another 4-5 dates. Changed to first available which was feb 17th

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I agree that I need to collaborate in medicine but I'm really not worried about other people undermining me because I can see right through it and know how to deal with it effectively.

 

[hopefuldoc24]

I agree that I need to collaborate in medicine but I'm really not worried about other people undermining me because I can see right through it and know how to deal with it effectively.

When I said self reliant I meant that ultimately you need to be responsible for your own study habits.

 

[Husky28]

Called admissions today. She said they are still sending out interview invites for a few more weeks.

I'm assuming they are sending out more interviews because of all of the people who have now been accepted at other places are cancelling their interviews, making room for other people to be interviewed?...

 

[hopefuldoc24]

I'm assuming they are sending out more interviews because of all of the people who have now been accepted at other places are cancelling their interviews, making room for other people to be interviewed?...

It improves the odds for us considering WSU.

 

[That.One.Guy]

Got an interview on 3/10. Is there somebody I can stay with ? PM me?

 

[mavric1298]

So I had a dr.s apt with one of the docs I have shadowed with - who is also one of the fellowship directors at UW. When we were talking about this cycle and I brought up WSU, he said he knew a few people that were thinking about taking positions there, but from what he had heard they were still missing a bunch of staff, and seemed far behind on the whole process, and that he would be concerned (not greatly, but enough to give pause) about accreditation, as well as a few other things. Interesting to get some insight from that perspective...and I'm hopeful that some of the questions and concerns I personally have are going to be addressed at the interview. Anyone else share concerns? Have any of them been addressed? I feel like the website is missing a lot of "meat" on important issues and where the school stands in this process of opening and starting a charter class


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[hopefuldoc24]

So I had a dr.s apt with one of the docs I have shadowed with - who is also one of the fellowship directors at UW. When we were talking about this cycle and I brought up WSU, he said he knew a few people that were thinking about taking positions there, but from what he had heard they were still missing a bunch of staff, and seemed far behind on the whole process, and that he would be concerned (not greatly, but enough to give pause) about accreditation, as well as a few other things. Interesting to get some insight from that perspective...and I'm hopeful that some of the questions and concerns I personally have are going to be addressed at the interview. Anyone else share concerns? Have any of them been addressed? I feel like the website is missing a lot of "meat" on important issues and where the school stands in this process of opening and starting a charter class


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I know they are in the process of hiring faculty. They can't receive full accreditation until they graduate their first class in 4 years. The good news is that with a class of 60 you don't need as many faculty members. I plan on asking questions related to these concerns if I get in. I don't want to bring them up at the interview because I don't want to give them reason to think I'd hesitate.

 

[hopefuldoc24]

And I actually thought their website was well put together. They've received a good amount of money. And they're a state school. It's in everyone's interest to maintain accreditation. It would be highly unusual for them not to receive full accreditation in 4 years. It's more a matter of what will they need to do to make it happen. The LCME tends to work with schools to remedy any deficiencies so the school gets accreditation.

 

[freak7]

So I had a dr.s apt with one of the docs I have shadowed with - who is also one of the fellowship directors at UW. When we were talking about this cycle and I brought up WSU, he said he knew a few people that were thinking about taking positions there, but from what he had heard they were still missing a bunch of staff, and seemed far behind on the whole process, and that he would be concerned (not greatly, but enough to give pause) about accreditation, as well as a few other things. Interesting to get some insight from that perspective...and I'm hopeful that some of the questions and concerns I personally have are going to be addressed at the interview. Anyone else share concerns? Have any of them been addressed? I feel like the website is missing a lot of "meat" on important issues and where the school stands in this process of opening and starting a charter class


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My medical director has shared very similar concerns.