I'd have to go back and look at what they said, but my own experience with Chaos has not been that he has a high thread presence like being one of the top 3-4 posters regularly. Is that what you mean by it?
Reminder to myself to read this. Shorty, I appreciate the long ISOs and the tldr you provide. Your effort is greatly appreciated. Just can’t focus long enough to read them all at once.
This has already been discussed by others on the thread, but I wanted to share my input too. Just because you add “lol” and say it’s a joke doesn’t mean it’s not true or that you accidentally let it slip that you know chaos is not the same affiliation as you. I think your response to people questioning your joke actually sounds more like a wolfy lack of humor from you. The new generation can still joke around and have fun, it’s just those jokes will still be analyzed when scum hunting and you have to be okay with that.I guess adding "lols" with the comments doesnt even separate my serious posts from the joking ones anymore.
again quoting this so I can read it later on my actual laptop screen. But this whole interaction seems to be a v/v kerfuffle from my skimming.
Maybe every (both?) scum faction targeted Dina. Maybe one of them was blocked. Maybe there’s an alien out there so they could only kill once and they used it up. There’s so many possibilities and I don’t think we’ll know until we flip scum. But I do enjoy the hypotheticals and tinfoiling.
Sorry I was absent. If you have any specific questions, please ask away because I’ll be here all night.
So what did you determine after your skimming? Does he seem like he’s scummy after you read through the other thread?
Drunk thoughts are honest thoughts. Tbh I didn’t go back and read what I said so hopefully I didn’t say anything incredibly stupid.
Just that he's not outside his scum meta, as far as I can tell. I have not figured out how to ISO on that site though so take that with a grain of salt, I didn't have time to read through everything.
I find that kind of confirmation bias an issue in general with ISOs, which is why I don't do them anymore. So I can see that being the case but I doubt it was intentional.
I’m still getting caught up, but expect a full reads list from me shortly.
Hmm. Ok.
It's basically a book itself, if that helps you to feel less irresponsible.
Btw the answer to this question is that she has posted this calendar day, but only once.
You neglect to mention my saying this lean was hedging on how I've only observed you in games, never played with you, and was basing it on a grand total of seeing you village once and wolf once. Which I definitely mentioned.
Vissy's first post on the thread. This was super early on D1, and I don't like to try and read too much into people's early D1 votes because at least half the time they're salt or joke votes anyway. Kind of interesting that it turned out to be true, but don't think we can read into that too much.
Dubz seems dead certain that coop likes scum roles. I can’t think of any other reason why she would want to “throw the game” and get yeeted D1. I think her efforts have improved as the game has progressed, so I’m inclined to believe that she is telling the truth and she was regretting signing up for the game. That doesn’t clear her from being scum, but I’m thinking she would be more likely to want to die if she was a village role that she disliked than a scum role since she likes scum roles? Does that make sense at all.
I'm saying that you can't act like my lean on you was iron-clad and I was dead sure of it, and that's somehow a huge contrast to my being unsure of my read on Vissy, who I historically read wrong.
*to be clear, I have only skimmed the ISOs and read the tldrs so far.*
If you didnt read the ISO's then you wouldnt be able to comment on what Im asking. Its not the ISO itself, its how its constructed which requires more than skimming.
Dude I'm telling you that you should joke around, because WW is supposed to be fun! It's not enjoyable when everyone hates each other. I'm just saying that jokes can often still include truthful information and not be 100% non-related to the thread.
Understood. I will respond again when I've fully read the ISOs then. I've gotten out my laptop so I'm making progress
Did I say I thought your Chaos vote was retaliatory?
Hey I never said I was good at interpreting sarcasmAlley.... that joke post (albeit more sarcastic than usual) just soared over your head 😆
I just wanted to make it clear that you can joke and still play WW.
Buddying like in a mutual way? Or like he’s pocketing me? Or vice versa?
-Lots of moments that feel like throwing shade to see where it sticks (at multiple players)
-Overall: there's some game solving attempts, there's some tunneling of Chaos (who does it back - it's not one-sided to be sure), but since my wanting to village lean him was based on tone, I'm not sticking with that read. Moving cubs down to scummy feels.
S A L T
This still felt weird and shade-throwy. I can't say it feels different on reread because it's literally his second post in the game.
I understand this reasoning though, and this is actually why I was side-eyeing Zenge for defending alley at the start of the game. Especially since it's not like cubs could salt vote samac in this game.
Then there's the joking back and forth with Coop about how to spell ophtho, not gonna pull those quotes to save space and also because I don't think they give any info, just entertainment. I don't get the same feeling about him saying her editing was sus that I got from Vissy saying that because Vis continued to push it/bring it up as factoring into her read of Coop even days later, whereas cubs mentioned it jokingly and then dropped it. With Vis, I felt like I could glean a little info from it because she wouldn't let go of it; with cubs, I feel like it's just jokes and NAI.
Feels jokey to me (and also understandable - I'd imagine that anyaff!cubs has salt toward everyone who was left at the end of RvB given that he was the final misyeet).
This is saying almost exactly the same thing as Cray said, just taking it a tiny bit farther (but a point that I'm not sure I see the benefit of making because whether they had 1 other town role to draw alignment from or only had town roles, the conclusion Cray and cubs are drawing seems to be the same anyway). Vis actually mentions this:
Didn't think much of it initially. Keeping in the back of my mind now that this could be scum trying to look like they're game solving without actually game solving.
Next up there's the start of all the cubs-Chaos bickering, which has been discussed a lot already, so I'd rather save space. I'll note though that arguing with/about Chaos (or posts solely about him) has accounted for ~18% of cubs' posts.
Moving on:
This was his response to alley's reads post. It's a valid point, but when he keeps going with it later, he kind of uses it to try to shade her using one of her reads where it was clear that she was factoring posts in too. It would have made the most sense if he'd tried to push this point by using her read of please, or maybe even Dubz, but that he chose to use me when her first real sentence was about my recent posts felt kind of strange. You can see alley's whole list if you click the cubs quote, it'll take you back to that, but I'll pull those 3 reads in for easy comparison:
This felt oddly defensive when my tone read, to that point, was leading me to a village-neutral read on him.
I already mentioned this post in Vissy's ISO yesterday, so I'm not going to reiterate the same point on it again. I don't have new thoughts on it.
I don't think this interaction indicates anything AI.
This was in response to Dina giving her reads list where cubs is in her scum leans. To be fair, Dina's reasoning for him being in her scum leans involved a lot of the cubs-Chaos roles discussion, so I understand the fixation on it in this particular post.
I'm not sure how long of a break cubs took so I don't know how much to read into the Dubz meta discussion (the shorter posts vs longer posts). I haven't ISOed Dubz, but I don't remember a lot of really strong pro-cubs posts?
This is the start of another few interactions that I already talked about in Vissy's ISO yesterday. Still feel the same way there that I did in terms of thinking it was weird to push it and then say he wasn't pushing it when I pointed out that I copy/paste (and that I'd already mentioned that), but based on what Dubz and Coop said about him being incorrectly village-read based on tone in a previous game, I'm less willing to ascribe villageyness to the "feeling targeted, feels like village!cubs" vibes that I was getting on the first read-through. Or second read-through, since I looked at these posts yesterday, and that means today is the third read-through.
Feels a little more game-solving than some of his previous posts. Less fixation on the Chaos thing, more willingness to talk about other people.
(sorry, this one isn't linked properly because it's in one of the wall posts and I don't feel like dealing with quoting from that. I copy/pasted the text from cubs quoting it in the post below.
This bothered me for a couple reasons. 1, I hate when people try to tell me the point they think I'm supposedly trying to make, and 2, especially because we weren't making the same point at all. I was disagreeing with cubs about the structure of Dubz's posts. I've seen her do the short, individual responses a lot (and I know that's what she prefers over the bigger posts, especially gargantuan posts like my ISOs always end up being. We've talked about it before because I added the tl;drs for people like her).
Started doubting his Dubz read but never came off her vote. Meh. Not sure I can penalize him for that because I've doubted reads and stayed on their votes before (in this game, even).
Just putting these in here because they made me laugh since cubs has never played with me. There is, indeed, quite a large increase in shorty in-game banter when I'm playing compared to when I'm not
@cubsrule4e, I realize alley hasn't posted much new content since you said this, but how are you feeling about her currently?
I thought you would have been okay with going onto Coop, did you not include her here because you didn't think that vote would be viable anyway?
And then we come to this interaction, which is just a feels moment I've had, but it's a feels moment that I considered a lot last night because I forgot to take my chemo until pretty late and then was awake feeling like garbage, so I mulled this over and tried to decide why it bothered me so much.
So like, there's that, and sure, it might be a joke - there have been other jokes in the game (although not ones really this intertwined with the game itself), but it just FEELS like a scum slip to me. And maybe it's not - I won't base a read off of something like that, but it pinged me and it made me uncomfortable. Because villagers don't know who else is a villager. I'm not reading into the lol either way.
This didn't really make me feel any better. If it was a scum slip, they could BOTH be scum and not be the same faction. It could have been a villager saying something really off, too. But it sketched me out.
This seems like it kind of has to be aimed at me given the timing, and I was questioning the value of throwing a vote on someone without using time for discussion when we only need 5 votes to hammer. Did we already forget the lessons from last game? Sure, sometimes putting a vote down early is useful and can stir up discussion, but I don't personally see the value of doing it in a game with maj invoked. I'd rather have the time to discuss. This quote is also notable to me because later on, he tries to make something out of my having a village lean on Vis and then ISOing her to consider - which I'd literally said I was going to do the night before, consider voting there, and that felt kind of off to me.
Where was she upset? Also, light defense of sunny noted. As the game has gone on, I've started to notice some buddying between sunny and cubs, and there are a few possibilities there. v/v who have the start of a bloc (I don't think this is as likely from my reads of them), scum/v (possible, but not the feeling I've really gotten), or scum/scum - and with that, I have to consider whether they'd be different or same faction. If I had to pick one of those, I'd say that I'm leaning toward the last option - the buddying gets stronger as the thread goes on, and it was interesting to me that they narrowed into this lightly coordinated effort to throw shade at me later in the evening (sunny didn't like that I ISOed her and didn't come out reading her village, cubs tried to shade my reconsidering Vis as being weird).
Point out where I "threw shade" versus questioned the value of it, please.
Is it, though? I don't think this is an accurate reflection of Chaos' involvement in the game.
When I say I'm going to consider people, I consider them. This actually really irritated me because again, in a game with maj, I feel like we SHOULD be discussing, and I think it's weird as hell to try and shade me for like ... doing what I said I was going to do. And you know what, I don't come out of ISOs with strong feelings every time (actually, often when I have STRONG feels and am like omg this person is a wolf, I'm wrong). I've had more accurate reads of people when I ISO and then take some time to think about it, or ISO and re-evaluate things I'd looked at before - in Bioshock, most times that I reevaluated someone, I landed on a more accurate read. So I'm not expecting to come out of any of them and be like "this person is scum and I must yeet them immediately," but rather to have all their posts that I feel are important in one place.
And yeah, I'm **** at reading Vis and I'm not kidding when I say that my votes on her are generally more accurate when I do the opposite of what my gut feeling. Sorry.
This is another place where I feel like cubs got kind of weirdly defensive. I interpreted the bolded part differently - I think it's Vis acknowledging that she WANTS to lean him scummier than the evidence suggests just because she wants to be right (don't we all), not that she IS leaning him scummier. This reminded me of earlier when I said that my [village-neutral] read of him was a tone read and he got defensive about that.
@cubsrule4e, how are you reading Dubz today?
I'm not going to really get into the Coopah discussion because it'll go back to the sub thing and I don't any of us suffering consequences.
@WildZoo, how are you feeling about Coop, since you've played with her a lot more? I really wanted to yeet her D1, but I feel like her tone and content has changed. And here's the thing - I kind of doubt that she'd have a wincon to get yeeted D1, not meet it, and THEN start playing harder, especially if like she says, she didn't want to play anymore. It just doesn't make sense. I don't really know how to make sense of her yet, but I'm hoping that she'll keep contributing today and that'll help me resolve where I'm leaning on her.
I honestly don’t read them because it’s way too much. But I have the opposite conclusions on both of you so I obviously don’t agree with hers. As for my own, yeah it felt like she had an agenda. Whether it was just pure confirmation bias, OR bad guy agenda, I canbe sure.
Again though, you seem to be skipping over the same point I made replying to her which is looking real suspicious...
ACTUALLY IT WAS THE EXACT OPPOSITE. ZENGE SEEMED SUS ***UNTIL*** SHORTY STARTED OVERREACTING AND TWISTING EVERYTHING HE POSTED.
Because it IS my reads list. How I got to them is irrelevant. And I’d love to hear what magic hard evidence people have that they are putting on theirs. It’s shady and dismissive.
I don’t remember what you were quoting here.
darn it Dubz. Here you go making too much sense again. Am I gonna have to upgrade your read?!
I was on him day 1. Never day 2. And I’ve had him at concerned, then sus, then concerned again. I never had him as wolf.
Quoted this but already addressed above.
Well, I have him as most town lean after me. But I’m getting more unsure of that as the day goes on. We really need to get a true bad guy yeeted today for morale.
I can't figure out if this should actually be "doesn't" or "don't" and it's really bothering me because it looks wrong either way.
Yes pls
Feelings are plural so it's don't for sure 😉
Why were you pointing out this post specifically? Is this “lmao yeah you have a point” or “lmao at this nonsense”?
I don’t really understand the first sentence here, can you clarify what you mean by “to know about others vs being town”?
sunny often argues for counterpoints that some people think are pretty out there, I think because she hates when people don’t seem to consider all the possibilities. I think she does it equally as village or wolf, so her position on this is NAI to me, but I feel weird about her “side eyeing” Z for disagreeing with her about it. He made his reasoning for why pretty clear and I don’t see why it would sound any alarm bells.
See this doesn’t bother me because it feels like a village give-no-****s-about-how-it-looks genuineness to throw down a reads list you admit straight up you can’t really justify because it’s your gut feeling, in the context of her being too busy to justify like she usually does. I feel scum would generally be too afraid of how that looks and would make something to “show their work”, this feels more like a villager doing the best they can in the circumstances
Yeah the followup reasoning does ping me though. I don’t like giving the retroactive reasoning itself after she said it’s based on feels she can’t really explain. At the time I gave the reasoning she gave a pass because like, ok, I did those things, and if she’s getting feelings about them then she’s getting feelings about them. But on reread it sketches me out that she says “most of her posts include” as if that’s pretty much all I posted and reduced my discussion about discards to “saying nothing while trying to look like [I’m] saying something [paraphrased from memory] … fighting with chaos about math”.
I disagree with this take, her philosophical agreement with Z was about him saying that it looks towny for pleasey and chaos to have turned down roles that are great for scum. She didn’t like that he was giving town points based on those discards, because she felt that scum could easily go for the WIFOM of turning them down in hopes of someone seeing it the way Z and I did.
I’ve already posted my take on sunny seeming less reactive to Coop voting her than usual, it makes sense to me and I don’t see it as wolfy esp because she’s previously been a very aggressive and reactive wolf
The tone of these kind of pings me, mostly of 1 and 3, it feels like the lol and lmaooos are thrown in trying to deliberately make the posts look casual and throw some shade but have plausible deniability of “no I was just joking if you took it at all seriously that’s just on you”. Idk I’m not explaining the feeling well.
This post really bothered me, it feels a lot less like wolf hunting and a lot more like trying to find a “gotcha” moment and see if she can goad shorty into sussing Dubz
Yeah same feeling, especially when also giving and “maybe” taking away village points to Z in the same post. Like setting herself up as “one of the few people doubting the Zenge vote” but also leaving room to turn around and vote him if needed. And sunny’s response:
Is a flat-out lie. And she was even shading alley for not reading Z less sus:
Then her trying to paint shorty asking her for a feels list as shade reinforced that feeling. It really surprised me sunny would think that was an insult when sunny even said her first reads list was a list of “feelings”. Nothing wrong with making a list of what vibes you’re getting from people (esp because imo sunny has had really great reads based on gut feelings in recent games, so it would make perfect sense for village sunny to lean on her instincts in reading people this game), but saying it’s an insult to call it that after you basically called it that yourself feels contrived.
Yeah still looks like trying to set up shorty for sus if Z flipped village (presumably if she were scum she wouldn’t 100% know he is village but would feel more confident than most since she would know who some scum are)
This is part of why I was asking for why Z went from sus to concerned. Like shorty said, the timing of taking Z from concerned to sus, while I stayed at concerned, while voting for me, while saying that she was feeling better about Z and that I “surpassed him on my own” (so why did I stay at concerned when he was upgraded to sus?)… then when questioned about it he goes from sus to concerned… I was concerned. I was also suspicious of some bussing going on with her saying Z was most sus in her previous reads lost but not putting her vote there, then seeming to try to set shorty up for sus for suspecting Z, and mysteriously downgrading him to concerned after being questioned. Obviously there was no bussing but I do think it could have been a wolf trying to take advantage of a village-led wagon on a (probable, from her POV) villager.
Still sidestepping the issue with how zenge was going from concerned to sus in her reads yet he was “getting better” because of shorty “overreacting” to him while I was allegedly getting more and more suspicious yet didn’t change to “sus”. So:
But it starts with "feeling," which is singular. 🤔
I did. And I’m voting there now.
You showing the least sus towards me is me pocketing you? I’m confused
LOL wouldn’t we just “coordinate” in PMs if we were “coordinating”? Not out here on the thread.
I think there should be a separate sentance that says something like "I don't like this situation"
No. You're not using "coordinate" the way I am.
OMG how many wall posts of quotes of quotes of quotes do I need to respond to. Especially since shorty, you, and pleasey keep repeating the same stupid things.
Or...
