Duke-NUS GMS

[singkri]

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Has anyone gotten a rejection letter yet? Or do they send those out only at the end?😕

 

[aquila]

I'm all but resigned to waiting for another year, find another job and maybe retake my MCAT. Does anyone know if the interviews are still ongoing or are they done?

Thanks in advance.

I think the interviews go on until April. I'm going for an interview tomorrow.

 

[spyderdrew3303]

Okay, this is a bit out of the topic....

Is anyone thinking of trying to get housing in Singapore yet? The fact that I am not and can not be physically there until July is worrying me. Is there a good website that I can visit? Or if someone can offer me a good deal in housing, that would be grrrreat!

 

[spyderdrew3303]

Has anyone gotten a rejection letter yet? Or do they send those out only at the end?😕

Krish,

Looking at the pattern, I kinda have a theory on how this rolling admission works (and I am sure you all already know this - I'm just stating the obvious). 1) The GMS releases a certain amount of acceptance letters once a week. They then give the people around a week to make their decision. Once they have received the reply from everyone, they will then determine the number of letters to send next. 2) The number of letters sent, if plotted against time, should resemble a bell curve. At this point, I believe that not very many acceptance letters have been issued as we are still at the beginning of the process. So, I wouldn't lose hope just yet. 🙂

Oh, and good luck to those interviewing tomorrow.

 

[mcc5]

Just got my acceptance letter through email today

 

[Sil]

I think the interviews go on until April. I'm going for an interview tomorrow.

Thanks for the reply. How far in advance do they inform you? Through email?

Good luck for your interview!

 

[singkri]

Okay, this is a bit out of the topic....

Is anyone thinking of trying to get housing in Singapore yet? The fact that I am not and can not be physically there until July is worrying me. Is there a good website that I can visit? Or if someone can offer me a good deal in housing, that would be grrrreat!

Hi drew! congrats on the acceptance! Its very gud news indeed... well.. as u know the wait is still on this side-

I'm not sure if you know of this website- this is the Office of student affairs at NUS- they arrange for undergrad and some grad accomodation- I'm told they also have a database of landlords or sthng... mebbe u cld write to them, telling them ud b gg to duke gms and ask them for help?

http://www.nus.edu.sg/osa/housing/acc/index.html

I'm not sure of other websites in the open market- although there shd b many, i guess... Aren't you coming earlier to settle ur housing.. and then flying in for ur classes in july? Perhaps you could take a week or two sometime now and get this out of ur way?

 

[singkri]

http://www.nus.edu.sg/osa/housing/acc/index.html

The section on private accomodation might be helpful to u. hope this helps!

 

[ting2]

Just to help with the problems with accommodation for international students, this is the email sent by the Duke-NUS Student Affairs Department.

"Accommodations
As a start, any students (especially those of you coming from overseas) who would like to connect with other students looking for accommodation will be invited to an online forum by mid-April. General information can also be provided in the forum to help those new to Singapore orientate themselves to the different residential areas. Please send an email to [email protected] if you will be looking for accommodation in Singapore and would like to consider sharing apartments with other students."


Hope this helps🙂

 

[nimbusadjust120]

Okay, this is a bit out of the topic....

Is anyone thinking of trying to get housing in Singapore yet? The fact that I am not and can not be physically there until July is worrying me. Is there a good website that I can visit? Or if someone can offer me a good deal in housing, that would be grrrreat!

Staying in the NUS dormitaries is what most students will do (including some of the local students here). Now, the NUS are introducing a scheme where 3 students will need to stay in 1 room due to the fact that, there are space shortage. Please think twice before choosing to stay in the dormitary. In actual fact, after i have done a simple calculation, the cost of staying somewhere near to the NUS campus is cheaper than staying in the dormitary and you do not need to share your room with anyone; you can have your own privacy and own personal space.

I would like to help but my parents don't allow. I am staying very near to NUS; in fact, my apartment is just opposite NUH. 🙁 🙁 🙁 Just a ten minutes walk and you will reach NUS.

 

[aquila]

Hello folks,

I was the only one who was interviewed today. I think I'm the last person to be interviewed, they said, so decisions should be finalized in April. It seems like this year's class is quite diverse (very many students from everywhere), and the male/female ratio should be 50:50. Last year was heavily skewed towards females. Anyone else thought the TeamGMS idea is kinda cool?

Did you apply for financial aid when you were there?

 

[nimbusadjust120]

Hello folks,

I was the only one who was interviewed today. I think I'm the last person to be interviewed, they said, so decisions should be finalized in April. It seems like this year's class is quite diverse (very many students from everywhere), and the male/female ratio should be 50:50. Last year was heavily skewed towards females. Anyone else thought the TeamGMS idea is kinda cool?

Did you apply for financial aid when you were there?

How many beautiful girls and handsome hunks are there? 😀

 

[singkri]

Now, the NUS are introducing a scheme where 3 students will need to stay in 1 room due to the fact that, there are space shortage.

I think that's NTU... not NUS..

Please think twice before choosing to stay in the dormitary. In actual fact, after i have done a simple calculation, the cost of staying somewhere near to the NUS campus is cheaper than staying in the dormitary and you do not need to share your room with anyone; you can have your own privacy and own personal space.

I would like to help but my parents don't allow. I am staying very near to NUS; in fact, my apartment is just opposite NUH. 🙁 🙁 🙁 Just a ten minutes walk and you will reach NUS.

Hmm.. yea dorms are usually given out to only UG students- in addn. Duke NUS is at Outram, and not Kent ridge- so it wouldn't help staying on campus at Kent ridge dorms...

So I guess private accommodation is the most sensible option?

 

[spyderdrew3303]

Just to help with the problems with accommodation for international students, this is the email sent by the Duke-NUS Student Affairs Department.

"Accommodations
As a start, any students (especially those of you coming from overseas) who would like to connect with other students looking for accommodation will be invited to an online forum by mid-April. General information can also be provided in the forum to help those new to Singapore orientate themselves to the different residential areas. Please send an email to [email protected] if you will be looking for accommodation in Singapore and would like to consider sharing apartments with other students."


Hope this helps🙂

I have received this e-mail also... but only this morning. I have checked out the dorms in NUS for the postgrad. 160$ per week is too much. I guess I will have to wait until mid April for the forum to start. In any case, my best friend is trying to secure a 3-room apartment for me and him. If we do get the apartment, we might be capable of offering a room to one or two people (Depending on the size of the room and the apartment).

But thank you for the help, Ting2 & Singkri.

 

[advante]

I think accomodations outside would be cheaper than in NUS itself as all my postgrad friends are living off-campus.

I guess if you are getting accomodations outside, you have to consider a few factors. Outram is considered quite central in Singapore and the rent will be a bit higher. Singapore had a fairly convenient transportation system. When deciding for a place to stay, may be you can check whether there are direct buses to school. I think the train station is pretty near the new campus. By the way, a 3-room apartment in Singapore only have 2 bedrooms and a 4-room apartment had 3 bedrooms. I think they consider the hall, or living room as we call it, a room.

For buses, there are only 2 bus companies, TIBS and SBS. You can find out whether there are direct buses to where you are planning to stay. If you are not familiar with the location, you can also check out streetdirectory.com.


Cheers

 

[mcc5]

Here is a book you can read if you want to learn more about Singapore: From Third World to First: The Singapore Story: 1965-2000, a memoir by Lee Kuan Yew.
Here is editorial review from amazon.com: In this memoir, the man most responsible for Singapore's astonishing transformation from colonial backwater to economic powerhouse describes how he did it over the last four decades. It's a dramatic story, and Lee Kuan Yew has much to brag about. To take a single example: Singapore had a per-capita GDP of just $400 when he became prime minister in 1959. When he left office in 1990, it was $12,200 and rising. (At the time of this book's writing, it was $22,000.) Much of this was accomplished through a unique mix of economic freedom and social control. Lee encouraged entrepreneurship, but also cracked down on liberties that most people in the West take for granted--chewing gum, for instance. It's banned in Singapore because of "the problems caused by spent chewing gum inserted into keyholes and mailboxes and on elevator buttons." If American politicians were to propose such a thing, they'd undoubtedly be run out of office. Lee, however, defends this and similar moves, such as strong antismoking laws and antispitting campaigns: "We would have been a grosser, ruder, cruder society had we not made these efforts to persuade people to change their ways.... It has made Singapore a more pleasant place to live in. If this is a 'nanny state,' I am proud to have fostered one."
Lee also describes one of his most controversial proposals: tax breaks and schooling incentives to encourage educated men and women to marry each other and have children. "Our best women were not reproducing themselves because men who were their educational equals did not want to marry them.... This lopsided marriage and procreation pattern could not be allowed to remain unmentioned and unchecked," writes Lee. Most of the book, however, is a chronicle of how Lee helped create so much material prosperity. Anticommunism is a strong theme throughout, and Lee comments broadly on international politics. He is cautiously friendly toward the United States, chastising it for a "dogmatic and evangelical" foreign policy that scolds other countries for human-rights violations, except when they interfere with American interests, "as in the oil-rich Arabian peninsula." Even so, he writes, "the United States is still the most benign of all the great powers.... [and] all noncommunist countries in East Asia prefer America to be the dominant weight in the power balance of the region." From Third World to First is not the most gripping book imaginable, but it is a vital document about a fascinating place in a time of profound transition. --John J. Miller
I found it quite interesting but maybe not such a good read for the Singaporeans (please comment). Good luck to all who are anxiously waiting for decisions

 

[pigchime]

Another piece of interesting reading...


http://theory.isthereason.com/?p=1128

 

[nimbusadjust120]

.....

Why read a book to understand how a country is doing when you can just type your questions regarding Singapore in this forum, and i will find time to reply to your questions.

 

[nimbusadjust120]

If you come to Singapore to study, please go and try all the foods out here. They are GREAT!!👍

Food paradise in Singapore!

 

[PeaceSoars]

Hello, is there any one here in their late twenties or early thirties considering to apply or who has applied to Duke-NUS GMS?

Would like to get in touch because I am in a similar phase of my life and we can exchange perspectives and opinions on undergoing Med sch as a mature student. Please PM me.

For the others here, what do you think are the main challenges of a mature student pursuing Med sch and subsequently a medical career?

 

[singkri]

Hi Peacesoars, I'm not in my late twenties- but I have a few thoughts that I could share with you-

1. Firstly is the time frame- you would be studying for a considerable period during your life, when 'ideally' you should be settled and so on- again, don't get me wrong when I say ideally- its just usually the norm.. passion and interest could sway this.

2. Family-- If you need to support your parents/spouse/kids with a steady income.. then you would have to plan that out while studying?

3. Some adjustment when it comes to the learning itself- I've heard of people say its tougher going back to school after a period at home/work. You would have probably already been promoted a few times... and it may be tough to start at the bottom of the rung all over again and listen/take instructions...
the learning itself- mebbe when you are single its easier to study? Tougher with your family? More responsibility? Kids, etc etc.

I'm making some assumptions here... namely you have a family to support et al.. But that may not be the case.. See, eventually above all these things I think its where you want to be at this point in life- If its medicine you want.. I dont think a few years is going to affect you in the long run.. Its all in your mind 🙂

 

[dia2005]

Weighing my options...

 

[aquila]

Hello, is there any one here in their late twenties or early thirties considering to apply or who has applied to Duke-NUS GMS?

Would like to get in touch because I am in a similar phase of my life and we can exchange perspectives and opinions on undergoing Med sch as a mature student. Please PM me.

For the others here, what do you think are the main challenges of a mature student pursuing Med sch and subsequently a medical career?

When I interviewed at Duke-NUS in Singapore, I hanged out with a first year for a bit and he's 32, he was already out of school for many years as an engineer when he applied so it can definitely be done.

 

[Nemus]

Anybody received anything recently? 😕 Anticipation is killing me.😱

 

[aquila]

I just got an email from Duke-NUS saying that I've been accepted! Woohoo! I interviewed about 2 weeks ago. This is so exciting!!!!!!!!

Who is going in July for sure?

 

[jamaicandoc]

I also got accepted this morning. Congrats to all those accepted. Aquila, where are you from? I don't think I will be taking up my offer, so one of you can get my spot. I am curious to know though how many people from the US will be taking up the offer? I am from the US and declining the offer because I can't see my self signing away 10 years of my life.. I would like to know what other US students think?

 

[aquila]

I am from the region (Southeast Asia). Sorry don't really feel like listing my home country so I don't identify myself on a public forum. I went to college in the US though.

Congratulations JamaicanDoc! Which other med school in the US are you considering?

 

[kiz]

Hey there,
I jus received the acceptance letter via email...quite thrilled. Was one of the late MCAT takers so had my interview on the 20th of March.

Am Sri Lankan but studied in Singapore at NUS. Looking forward to meeting up with you guys before term starts..

 

[nimbusadjust120]

Hey there,
I jus received the acceptance letter via email...quite thrilled. Was one of the late MCAT takers so had my interview on the 20th of March.

Am Sri Lankan but studied in Singapore at NUS. Looking forward to meeting up with you guys before term starts..

yeah, go for a party and enjoy yourself before term starts!

 

[kiz]

Hey,
Firstly let me congratulate the applicants who have been successful.

I just had a chat with Dr. Craig Stenberg from Duke-NUS and voiced out the opinion that certain successful applicants (such as jamaicandoc) are considering declining the offer due to the 5 year service agreement. Let me just brief you ll on the flexibility of such an agreement.

Unlike in the west, almost every subsidised program is bonded. 'Bonded' seems to harsh sounding a word but is more like an agreement. I personally am not from Singapore and so before i undertook my undergraduate degree had to sign an 'agreement' that i would work for a singapore based company upon graduating. This is because i had to pay a meagre 20% of the full tuition fees. Since the government is forking out the remaining 80% it only sounds fair that we give back to the economy in some way. This having being said doesnt mean you have to work for any particular goverment company. You are free to work in any industry and your pay is dependent on the employer. This is an accepted norm in this region. So when i decided i wanted to pursue my PhD the bond was deffered by the stipulated time period. In this sense these is no 'binding' agreement but a flexible one.

With regards to the Duke-NUS medical school, the actual tuition fees is approx S$500,000 however the students are expected to pay just S$35000 a year. So when comparing to a program in the US where you would most of the time have to take some form of loan to support your tuition, you could use 1 years fees to pay for all 4 years in Singapore. Comparatively the cost of living (contrary to popular belief) is quite reasonable. Singapore has cutting edge research facilities, this I know as I have been working with the Division of Bioengineering, NUS for the last year. There is so much of money coming in for R&D its insane. Looking 4 years down the line not only is the Singapore $ gonna equivalent the US$ the opportunities would not be as stagnant as it could be in the US.

Ofcourse with a Duke-NUS collaborative MD your options are definitely gonna be vast as you have the flexibility of working in the west and the east.

So in my opinion, jamaicandoc i would suggest you reconsider rejecting your application. It would be a better condusive environment if there are students from different backgrounds and frames of thinking.

As for singapore being boring.....well ive been here for 5 years and theres never a weekend that ive been indoors. If your bored with the vibrant night life then i suggest you hop on a coach and explore Malaysia which is an hour away or alternatively fly budget airlines to indonesia, cambodia, bangkok or any other exotic locales.

So there successful applicant something to think about before you ll send those rejection letters. Looking forward to seeing you all in July.

kiz

 

[jamaicandoc]

Kiz, thanks for the information. While I am very impressed with the program itself and the quality of education, signing away 10 years of my life seems a daunting decision and will require careful thought. I have not declined my offer as yet and am very much doing research and learning about life in singapore. I have no doubt in my mind that the educational opportunities will be great but other factors have to be taken into account as well. On that note, I am curious about the pay scale for residents or recent medical school graduates in singapore. If anyone can chime in on this I would really appreciate it. How much can a resident, fresh out of medical school expect to save after paying rent and food expenses? Thanks!

 

[mcc5]

Kiz, thank you for the input. I am about to decline the offer and give my spot to someone on the waitlist. In fact, I have read a lot about Singapore and finally come to this conclusion because there is absolutely no way for me to rationalize about the 10-year-service commitment, which significantly limits one's options. The program is great and Singapore may become the research hub in the next 20 years, but consider the numbers: the Singapore government is investing $350 million in the program while for a single drug company to get a new drug through FDA approval in the U.S., it may spend at least $1.2 billlion, not saying how much funding is given to NIH, NSF, etc each year. It is very hard for someone from the U.S. to accept this kind of service bond, no matter how flexible it is. Also for people from the U.S., if you accept, don't expect to come back again within ten years because as an IMG, unless you are truly stellar, it is extremely hard to get into a competitive residency program. Even if you do get a spot, I doubt the Singapore government will let you go.

 

[kiz]

hey mcc5 and others considering declining the offer due to the service bond...

I suggest you have a chat with Dr. K or Dr. Stenberg and voice out your concerns. They would have a better understanding of how the service agreements may work out and if they need any additional information they may get it for you from MOH.

All im saying is that before you make any conclusions although you may have done some background check I feel it would be a worthwhile effort getting relevant info from the administration itself.

If anything is vague ask them to clarrify the stand.

By no means am I lobbying for the program but am just appreciative of getting an opportunity to study medicine.

Kiz

 

[Socrates10]

Dear forummer,

Mas Selamat (a J.I terrorist leader) is on the loose in Singapore. If you want to come to singapore, please be careful as he is targetting your race (not necessarily you). *not meant to be a racist comment but to remind you that our country is not that safe as it might seemed to be*😉

I am planning to enter a medical school in the USA and you are coming to my country instead. To experience Asian culture?

Hello Nimbu:

I was looking for people belonging to the "Singaporean wanting to enter medical school in the USA" club and I am glad to find one in you who is of a similar feather.

Do you happen to study in NUS and graduate from NUS, since you mentioned that you live near NUS?

I was looking through the profiles of some of the universities in the US and it seems that international applicants stand a better chance in private universities as opposed to state universities. Among the private universities, there's always the issue of insisting that pre-requisite coursework must be done in a US university, e.g. Yale University, Johns Hopkins. However, I know it is not totally impossible to get into a US university. An immunology prof told me that one of his student who had his coursework in done in NUS managed to gain entry into an MD-Ph.D program in University of Michigan @ Ann Arbor when I caught up with him. The chap who got in wasn't that exceptional (CAP close to 4.0/5, actually a little below 4.0, didn't have honors, but had a research masters and extensive research experience, according to the prof)

Anyway, how do you want to go about applying? I thought the best advice is to speak to Admissions Committees before applying. Another recommended move would be to convert the NUS grades to US equivalents through an agency like WES.

I did thought about Duke-NUS before and had discussions with friends. I do not perceive Duke-NUS as playing a role in making up the supply of doctors. This is not the case if you consider MOH's approach in recognising the number of degrees conferred by foreign universities. Furthermore, the undergraduate medical faculty at NUS increased their quota of undergraduates. I came to the conclusion that if one really want to specialise, it may be a little bit difficult if one goes to Duke-NUS, because their primary goal is to produce clinician-scientists, and it seems likely they would serve out their bond in a role as a clinician scientist. I did speak to a staff at Duke-NUS out of curiosity and the perception I get is that they do not appear supportive of the fact that the applicant states that he/she ultimately wants to practise medicine (as opposed to a clinician scientist).

 

[Socrates10]

Staying in the NUS dormitaries is what most students will do (including some of the local students here). Now, the NUS are introducing a scheme where 3 students will need to stay in 1 room due to the fact that, there are space shortage. Please think twice before choosing to stay in the dormitary. In actual fact, after i have done a simple calculation, the cost of staying somewhere near to the NUS campus is cheaper than staying in the dormitary and you do not need to share your room with anyone; you can have your own privacy and own personal space.

I would like to help but my parents don't allow. I am staying very near to NUS; in fact, my apartment is just opposite NUH. 🙁 🙁 🙁 Just a ten minutes walk and you will reach NUS.

Hi Nimbu:

Have you stayed in any hostel/dorm at NUS? I stayed at PGP, which I managed to get since I was a USP student. I found it claustrophobic, living in a class C block, and I stayed for one year. I stayed in hostel during the time when I did my Undergraduate research project (UROPS), which was necessary since I had to work till late!

 

[Socrates10]

Kiz, thanks for the information. While I am very impressed with the program itself and the quality of education, signing away 10 years of my life seems a daunting decision and will require careful thought. I have not declined my offer as yet and am very much doing research and learning about life in singapore. I have no doubt in my mind that the educational opportunities will be great but other factors have to be taken into account as well. On that note, I am curious about the pay scale for residents or recent medical school graduates in singapore. If anyone can chime in on this I would really appreciate it. How much can a resident, fresh out of medical school expect to save after paying rent and food expenses? Thanks!

Dear JamaicanDoc:

I think it is more highly likely that you will be a clinician scientist (should you consider to matriculate at Duke-NUS and serve out your bond) than a resident physician. I am not too sure about the pay-scale of a clinician scientist though. If you think academic medicine/research is for you, do give Duke-NUS a second thought. In my case, I wanted to be a practising physician, which is why Duke-NUS route is way out for me. Ultimately, it's all about personal choices.

 

[PeaceSoars]

Dear JamaicanDoc:

I think it is more highly likely that you will be a clinician scientist (should you consider to matriculate at Duke-NUS and serve out your bond) than a resident physician. I am not too sure about the pay-scale of a clinician scientist though. If you think academic medicine/research is for you, do give Duke-NUS a second thought. In my case, I wanted to be a practising physician, which is why Duke-NUS route is way out for me. Ultimately, it's all about personal choices.

Hello, I think GMS graduates will go into residency programs, according to the information on the website and at the admission seminar. But the details of the residency programs are not known yet because they are still planning it. I think the plan is that graduates choose their preferred career track.

Actually there is no clear-cut definition of what is a "physician-scientist" career because doctors can be involved in research at varying degrees. And research can be laboratory or clinical in nature. I think currently, there is no pure clinical specialisation program. In the current specialisation structure of BST and AST, I think there is also a research requirement of the trainees.

So it seems that if you want to specialise, there is no way that you can avoid research altogether. The GMS bond is 4 years, and it is likely that at the end of the bond, you would have finished or nearing the end of your residency program. After the bond ends, you are free to choose what you like to do with regards to your career.

Unless you are worried that this residency program that they are planning does not lead to qualification as a specialist.

I feel that MOH would desire to nurture more doctors who can contribute to research in future through GMS. But I do not think they will force people forgo clinical work altogether because if they do this, would it not tarnish the reputation of this program and affect future enrolment? Will Duke allow this (they also have a stake in this collaboration)? Besides, most good physician-scientists are practicing specialist doctors who have seen a lot of patients and cases. I believe MOH is hoping that we have more specialist who would choose to spend some time in research and not to produce medical graduates who spend all his time in the laboratory as a scientist, although that option would also be available if the student desires this career track.

What do you think?

 

[Socrates10]

Hello, I think GMS graduates will go into residency programs, according to the information on the website and at the admission seminar. But the details of the residency programs are not known yet because they are still planning it. I think the plan is that graduates choose their preferred career track.

Actually there is no clear-cut definition of what is a "physician-scientist" career because doctors can be involved in research at varying degrees. And research can be laboratory or clinical in nature. I think currently, there is no pure clinical specialisation program. In the current specialisation structure of BST and AST, I think there is also a research requirement of the trainees.

So it seems that if you want to specialise, there is no way that you can avoid research altogether. The GMS bond is 4 years, and it is likely that at the end of the bond, you would have finished or nearing the end of your residency program. After the bond ends, you are free to choose what you like to do with regards to your career.

Unless you are worried that this residency program that they are planning does not lead to qualification as a specialist.

I feel that MOH would desire to nurture more doctors who can contribute to research in future through GMS. But I do not think they will force people forgo clinical work altogether because if they do this, would it not tarnish the reputation of this program and affect future enrolment? Will Duke allow this (they also have a stake in this collaboration)? Besides, most good physician-scientists are practicing specialist doctors who have seen a lot of patients and cases. I believe MOH is hoping that we have more specialist who would choose to spend some time in research and not to produce medical graduates who spend all his time in the laboratory as a scientist, although that option would also be available if the student desires this career track.

What do you think?

I will stand by what I say with regards to specialisation. If you have been following the news, the head-honchos (A*STAR of Singapore) tasked with building up Singapore as a biomedical hub has identified translational clinical research as one of its focus. In line with GMS and the head honchos' goals, I am not surprised at the current perception is that GMS wants to produce clinician-scientists. Even professors in the know of happenings within GMS seemed to be telling me that in informal conversations at the very least. One advised me that if I want to be a physician per se, forget about Duke-NUS. (not heaping scorn on Duke-NUS, but rather the issue is the difference between applicant's and Duke-NUS focus)

In Singapore at least, specialty training is by no means a short process. Unlike regular MBBS graduates, the Duke-NUS applicants would be behind by 5 years at the very least (if they do their four year bachelors). The perception is that GMS graduates will be more or less involved in clinical research as opposed to patient care (which will be handled by the MBBS graduates). I am not sure myself if conducting research is part and parcel of specialty training, but my friends in regular MBBS program aren't that enthusiastic about research.

With regards to the nature of the Duke and NUS collaboration, I would rather choose not to comment as there is not much information on that.

 

[somamaranth]

Hi everyone,

I received an acceptance earlier in March, and will be attending Duke-NUS this fall. I looking forward to seeing some of you in July!

Before making my decision to accept the offer, I also found it difficult thinking about committing myself to Singapore for 4, 5 years (not 10, as someone mentioned above) after graduation. There've been some interesting posts about pros and cons and I'd like to offer my thoughts on some issues.

Regarding the bond, it really helped me to think about what the bond actually is all about: the Singapore government has essentially subsidized Duke-NUS to make its education highly affordable for both Singaporeans and international students alike. S$38,000 a year for medical education is a ridiculous bargain! Essentially, the Singapore government is saying that they'd appreciate our medical service to the country more than the money. It's not impossible to break the bond (though I'm not saying that people should enter Duke-NUS with the outright intention of doing so); the only thing is that you'd have to fork out the $585,000 of subsidies -- in which case you've ended up paying exactly what you would've paid to attend a US medical school. In my opinion, the bond isn't so much a weight tying you down; it's really giving you an option of not being in heavy financial debt after graduating, and it also means you're ensured 4 or 5 years of work upon graduation. Beyond the larger and more abstract concept of being "stuck" in Singapore, I think we all have to remember that we'll be practicing medicine in hospitals, working with patients, honing our skills, and simply doing what we've all been dreaming of doing for the longest time.

For me, another big selling point of Duke-NUS is the fact that you graduate with a joint-degree from Duke and NUS, both of which are highly recognized in the US and Asia. I don't know if any of you are interested in international medicine, but I think it will an incredibly fluid degree in terms of job opportunity. Regarding returning to the US to practice problem, I don't see it being a huge problem since we'll all be getting the opportunity to do US boards. There are 25,000 residency positions in the US every year, and America only graduates 17,000 from US medical schools per year. If you're a US citizen, I don't think you'll have difficulty getting to practice in America. The fact that Duke-NUS is only in its 2nd year also means (or at least I think it will) that they'll be extremely invested in helping us develop as doctors and succeed in getting our desired placements.

My last comment has to do with Duke-NUS' emphasis on physician scientists. I definitely think people have raised valid points about this, but I think it's important to remember that at the core of the program, the goal of Duke-GMS, like any other medical school, is to develop good, qualified, passionate physicians. I get the impression that the school's emphasis on research and the development of physician scientists stems from their genuine belief that doctors will be better able to serve their patients if they are also well-informed and kept up-to-date about breakthrough research in the medical field. The many research options that are available in Singapore (Biopolis, the opening of the Ludwig Institute for Cancer Research, student exchanges with Duke) facilitate this goal. Although the school highly encourages students to embark on some form of research during their 3rd year, it was also mentioned on the webpage that students can also opt to do independent study if they so choose.

I probably seem overly optimistic; the truth is, I definitely do see the cons too, be it committing myself to a country (regardless of it being Singapore or not) for such a long period of time, worrying about Singapore's relatively less liberal environment, and wondering what kind of doctors the school is eventually going to turn out. I would say to anyone having doubts to definitely talk to Dr Stenberg, Dr Kamei, or anyone else at the school who is able to give you well-informed advice. Even if they want us to matriculate, I doubt they will be anything less than honest with us -- I don't think they want to deal with a bunch of unhappy and dissatisfied students for 4 years.

Anyway those are my two cents to balance out the discussion a bit. I've been reading so many con posts that it's getting me sad! 🙂

 

[PeaceSoars]

I will stand by what I say with regards to specialisation. If you have been following the news, the head-honchos (A*STAR of Singapore) tasked with building up Singapore as a biomedical hub has identified translational clinical research as one of its focus. In line with GMS and the head honchos' goals, I am not surprised at the current perception is that GMS wants to produce clinician-scientists. Even professors in the know of happenings within GMS seemed to be telling me that in informal conversations at the very least. One advised me that if I want to be a physician per se, forget about Duke-NUS. (not heaping scorn on Duke-NUS, but rather the issue is the difference between applicant's and Duke-NUS focus)

In Singapore at least, specialty training is by no means a short process. Unlike regular MBBS graduates, the Duke-NUS applicants would be behind by 5 years at the very least (if they do their four year bachelors). The perception is that GMS graduates will be more or less involved in clinical research as opposed to patient care (which will be handled by the MBBS graduates). I am not sure myself if conducting research is part and parcel of specialty training, but my friends in regular MBBS program aren't that enthusiastic about research.

With regards to the nature of the Duke and NUS collaboration, I would rather choose not to comment as there is not much information on that.

It is no doubt that GMS hopes to produce doctors who can boost Singapore's efforts in translational research, leading to cutting-edge therapies. As far as I can see, the area that doctors can contribute is to identify relevant and the most important problems in the clinic that should be researched upon. In collaboration with the PhD scientists (biochemist, molecular biologist etc), we also need doctors who can co-ordinate with these scientists and conduct clinical trials on patients with the techniques developed in the laboratory by the scientist. In other words, these doctors have to be involved in patient care to fulfill the above roles. The only scenario for doctors not to be practising as a physician is for the doctor to take on a scientist role in a laboratory and forgo clinical practice completely. I seriously do not think that MOH will force a doctor to go into full-time laboratory research straight after graduation during the bond period. Don't you think it is a waste of resources to spend so much time and money to train a person in medicine and then to force him or her to forgo medical practice altogether? Besides, GMS graduates without a PhD are not the best qualified people to do laboratory research. A life science PhD holder would be better suited. Also MOH are currently planning residency programs for the GMS graduates and I would expect that they would lead to specialisation. If the residency programs do not lead to specialisation and instead lead to 100% research with 0% patient care, this GMS will become like a medical PhD program. It would not be a medical school any more.

So I think the clinician-scientists that GMS are mainly trying to produce would be doctors who has a research perspective while seeing their patients so that they are able to identify problems in the clinics and communicate to the PhD researchers in the laboratories. Also, these doctors would be important in conducting clinical trials on their patients and to track their progress. And the Singapore government is changing their focus in hospitals. Previously, the strategy is to keep costs low by focusing on patient care and to let other people spend the money on research and then to tap on any successful proven therapies. That is why the MBBS curriculum has not been designed with any emphasis on research. And due to the focus on patient care in hospitals, it is natural that traditionally in Singapore, MBBS graduates are not enthusiastic about research. But there has been a shift in focus in recent years. I think even in the MBBS curriculum, there has been more emphasis on research. And if you have read some of the BST and AST specialist training requirements, there are also research components.

And looking at the direction that Singapore is going, I think to be a leader in public hospitals, research expertise would be highly valued. I would think that only if one is adverse to even doing a little bit of research and simply hates research to the core, then probably GMS will be a pain because it has a research year (in fact this is one of the special features of the Duke curriculum).

The only clear-cut case would be if one is aspiring to become a private GP after the bond and to have your own clinic, then GMS will not be suitable. Or if you want to have absolute nothing to do with research after you become a consultant and you aspire to go into private practice in private hospitals. But I think while undergoing specialisation training, it would be hard to avoid research totally, whether you are a MBBS or MD graduate.

I do not think that just because the GMS graduates are older, they would be discouraged from specialising. At the admission seminar, it was mentioned that the hope is for the graduates to go into residency programs and become experts in their preferred specialty areas. It was also mentioned that for those who are keen on a 100% research career in the laboratory after graduation, GMS still wants the person to do 1 year of internship in the hospital so that he can be licensed to practice medicine before he goes into the laboratory. Singapore need more specialist doctors and there are on-going plans to shorten the specialisation process. Also, the age cap on specialisation application has been lifted recently, meaning that doctors of any age can apply to specialise now. As I mentioned, the only way for your feared scenario of GMS graduates being forced to do research and forgoing patient care altogether and not being allowed to train to become a specialist is for MOH to post graduates into the laboratories straight after the internship year. Do you foresee this really happening? How sustainable is such an arrangement? If that happens, GMS would not be a medical school any more. It would be more of a medical PhD program. But other PhD programs in Singapore comes with stipends and scholarships. Who will then enroll in GMS?

Any comment or discussion is welcomed from anyone on the forum.

 

[keane28]

Hello! I got accepted to the GMS for entry in Jul, so I'm looking to sell my MCAT study guides (ExamKrackers and Kaplan) at a cheap rate. Anyone interested please pm me. Good luck to all those applying this year! 🙂

 

[aquila]

Somamaranth, THANK YOU for your positive reply! Like you, I am super excited about enrolling in July!

I really don't get the negativity. Seriously guys, do take everything you read on sdn with a grain of salt. Remember there are people on the waitlist who are dying to get off. Who knows who they are and what they might post? I'm not trying to accuse anyone here but just thought I should point this out.

Having applied from the US, I was surprised to hear the argument about clinician-scientist and research. Honestly, I think Duke-NUS would be a good fit for future physicians with an interest in research. Even in the US, all the medical schools stress fit and you wouldn't want to apply or enroll in a school that's not your fit, right? So I don't really understand the argument about matriculating and not wanting to do research in the future?

Also, I would encourage everyone to get beyond narrow definitions. What does it mean to be a clinician scientist? I am passionate about clinical work and would not enroll in medical school if all I want to do is research (granted I would love to pursue the latter as well). So with both these interests, Duke-NUS is an amazing fit for me. A physician scientist (I prefer this term) can do a varying amount of research at different times of her life. There is no hard and fast rule about how much you can do. According to the terms laid out by DUke-GMS, you can choose to do all research (by going to A*Star) or join a hospital for US or UK style residencies. So, this is not much different from the US.

I graduated from a US undergraduate college and worked a lot with the doctors in the hospital there. I've seen MDs, MD-PhDs and PhDs all involved in varying amounts of research (100% for the PhDs, obviously). I know an MD who collaborates with a PhD on laboratory research. Both are actually my research mentors. The MD is involved on the clinical side (recruiting patients, collecting their blood samples for DNA extraction, dealing with consent issues, etc) while the PhD runs a lab doing the grunt work (genotyping, gene expression, screening, PCR, etc). Every week, both sides meet and both the MD and the PhD discuss about where to take the research next. They also write their grant proposals together.

So being a clinician and getting involved in research is definitely possible! That's if you want it, of course. In the US, if you want to be a tenured professor of medicine in an academic center, you would need to have some research publications (be they clinical or lab). All this does not apply if you choose to join private practice of course. So, I think Duke-NUS is best for those of us who want to work in academic medicine in the future.

Having said that, however, I must say that academic medicine is very diverse in itself. You can still pursue public health, international medicine, research etc as a faculty member at an academic center.

 

[kiz]

I strongly agree with aquila and somamaranth...it is about time we stopped complaining about the credibility of the program.
As the motto for Duke-NUS GMS goes...igniting the pioneering spirit. We need to realise that regardless of the fact that the program is 'experimental' by no means will it be road block in what we want to achieve in the medical field.
A collaboration of 2 power house universities Duke and NUS in my opinion will not tarnish our intellectual pursuit.
The international outlook and approach will definitely lead to global recognition we do need to give it time.
So unless you have been accepted at other more prestigious med school programs do give this a shot...lifes a gamble make the best of it!

 

[travistravis]

Hello! I got accepted to the GMS for entry in Jul, so I'm looking to sell my MCAT study guides (ExamKrackers and Kaplan) at a cheap rate. Anyone interested please pm me. Good luck to all those applying this year! 🙂

hey i am going to apply 2009 entry...
can u pm me the price of the book?
do u think 1 month can pass the MCAT? since i will grad this summer...but the test is at sept...🙁
many thx

 

[travistravis]

i am new to the forum...hi everybody

few questions:
1)when did u guys submit ur application? is it really a rolling admission?
2)do we needa submit the reference letter right after the application online?
3)i have kinda research exp, but it is in rehabilitation field (not clinical), does it count as research exp?
4)plus i am not a singaporean...does it do me any disadvantage?

thanks

 

[kimmy23]

Sigh. I am still waiting and waiting for news of my application. Looking at all those who are accepted, guess my chances are slim. Anyone has any idea what is the MCAT cut off this year?

 

[kiz]

i am new to the forum...hi everybody

few questions:
1)when did u guys submit ur application? is it really a rolling admission?
2)do we needa submit the reference letter right after the application online?
3)i have kinda research exp, but it is in rehabilitation field (not clinical), does it count as research exp?
4)plus i am not a singaporean...does it do me any disadvantage?

thanks

hey travis,
1. You are supposed to submit your application by the 1st of Dcember 2008. I would advice you to submit as early as possible as they do have a rolling admission. I heard that they are gonna be sending out acceptance letters as early as October.
2. By the time you submit your application you should have requested for 3 to 5 referrence letters. Until they reach them they wont process your application.
3. Any form of research helps..the more diverse the better
4. You are definitely not at a disadvantage..

Try to do your MCAT in Sept, should get the results by Oct and then you may submit your complete application.

good luck,

 

[travistravis]

hey travis,
1. You are supposed to submit your application by the 1st of Dcember 2008. I would advice you to submit as early as possible as they do have a rolling admission. I heard that they are gonna be sending out acceptance letters as early as October.
2. By the time you submit your application you should have requested for 3 to 5 referrence letters. Until they reach them they wont process your application.
3. Any form of research helps..the more diverse the better
4. You are definitely not at a disadvantage..

Try to do your MCAT in Sept, should get the results by Oct and then you may submit your complete application.

good luck,

you rock!!!
thx for ur advice...

but still some more questions:

1) so u mean submit by october is early enough?
2) they really contact my referee before considering ur application? i plan to find 3 referee, 2 of them is my research supervisor...are they important? becos i may need to inform them in advance so that when they contact them, they wont feel very odd.
3) every kind of research help ? are u sure? since my research is nothing clinical...just data analysis....rehab...and design project...
4) from last yr admission, seems they still admit a lot of Singaporean instead of international student...what do u think? I am an asian.

thx in advance...

 

[travistravis]

one more thing is...as i have less than a month to prepare my MCAT...🙁

i may need to revise the stuff intensively...so here comes the problem...

u guys revise all stuff in the review book of each subject (the very thick one) or do plenty of the mock tests? and in average how many mock test u guys done? u guys buy all test in the official site? it sounds to cost a lot, i am a very poor student

thx

 

[advante]

one more thing is...as i have less than a month to prepare my MCAT...🙁

i may need to revise the stuff intensively...so here comes the problem...

u guys revise all stuff in the review book of each subject (the very thick one) or do plenty of the mock tests? and in average how many mock test u guys done? u guys buy all test in the official site? it sounds to cost a lot, i am a very poor student

thx

Personally, I am also a very poor student. I only did the online free paper at the mcat website. I prepared using my A level text books which I believe the test levels are pegged at. However, I think mcat review books should be available in libraries. I spent about 1 month plus reading. However, I would not consider it intensive, as I was rushing my Honours Year Project. As a result I did ok, not fantastic but enough to be accepted. With 1 month intensive + guides, you should be ok. I guess the interview played a rather big part, so don't forget that.


1) Submit by October should be early enough, I was a late MCATer, so I submitted only near the deadline. But as Kiz say, the earlier the better.

2)I am not sure, I don't think they contacted my referees as none of them told me tey got contacted.

3)I believe the research subject is not critical, what is more important is the approach you took to solve the problem and how you rationalise the data. I am a molecular biologist by training, I work on bacteria and yeast, not very clinical.

4)We do not have the actual data from the applicants, but I guess the main reason why they admit so many more Singaporean is because most of the applicants should be Singaporeans. But they seem to emphasize the diverse nationality of their students during the intro.