FTF's Worst Idea Yet (Game Over)

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@PippyPony I just got out of work and have not caught up yet but I saw your accidental tag in another thread and figured I'd respond. My read on AM is pretty squarely non-scum (can't say whether 3P or village/town whatever), the fact that she discarded a town role made me think she probably did not choose wolf or mafia and everything I've heard from her since then seems in line with her village meta. Not familiar with her 3P meta so I can't comment on that
 
Crayola227 said:
The last bit feels more like a scum stance than a village one.
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Big freaking suprise considering the only game we have ever not gone after each other all game long was the one game I told you I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt and you were chill all game and then were a fraking woof
 
PippyPony said:
"Didn't come from a harmful mindset" --> she is not village. Her goal is to survive and she knows her likelihood of doing so goes down if I'm around to sus her.

From my perspective, that is not equivalent to benign.
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This is what I'm always trying to explain about 3P and even true neutrals (can win with either side), they don't have the same loyalty to one side, so they are willing to play in a way that can hurt village or wolves because they only care about themselves as their real wincon. They will kill or get villagers voted to save themselves when they themselves don't count for village numbers.

3P is generally not a good thing to have around. They muddy the waters of getting reads on other players because they dgaf etc.

I like to vote them just to know for a fact I'm not cutting down village numbers.
 
WildZoo said:
That's ridiculous pip. I've been 3p needing to survive plenty of times and plopped you in my village reads (Apocalypse and French Quarter come to mind). Whether or not it is correct, my read on you is real. I'm not worried about you sussing me, you do it every game and it never goes anywhere lol
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Note I'm agreeing with Pippy in principle. If what she were saying was true, it would be an example supporting the danger I'm often trying to warn ppl about with 3Ps even true neutrals.
 
PippyPony said:
It's not about revenge, it's that Ms P was basically clear.

I just kinda think AM maybe killed her, because that seems like a choice she would make. I didn't have AM as compatible with Alissa yesterday though, so that doesn't really fit. Probably should go back and read.
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I don’t really get why MsP being vitecleared from being a wolf means wolves definitely NKed her. She still could have been mafia or another alignment town wants to vote out, so still could have been a future yeet that saves a wolf from being yeeted. I’m not saying wolves didn’t kill her, but I don’t think we should assume it.
 
Aprilthearab said:
@PippyPony I just got out of work and have not caught up yet but I saw your accidental tag in another thread and figured I'd respond. My read on AM is pretty squarely non-scum (can't say whether 3P or village/town whatever), the fact that she discarded a town role made me think she probably did not choose wolf or mafia and everything I've heard from her since then seems in line with her village meta. Not familiar with her 3P meta so I can't comment on that
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but she can use that as a defense and giggle the whole time she pulls it off
 
Animal Midwife said:
@Zenge142 Can you come back and talk to me about your thoughts some more?
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Yeah just got home
I’m weighing Vis’s claim. Not completely sold, but I might consider voting elsewhere.

I’m obviously sold on Dubz’s claim, which essentially can’t not be true given that she voted for Pippy and it wasn’t logged.

Knowing now what Dubz’s role is, makes me reevaluate the Dubz/Pippy interactions, and lean more wolfy on Pippy. I’ll probably go there if I decide to move off Vis.

Im not quite sure how I feel about Paws. I don’t think we’ve ever played together. I want to look at the Pippy/Paws interactions.
 
Dr. ForgotToFlush said:
View attachment 335361
Night 1 flavour: I overslept. Playing Minecraft until 5 and then needing to wake up at 9 is not fun.

Chaostrodon has died. They were:
Compulsive Blind Bodyguard Faith Vigilante: Each night you will randomly, compulsively target someone with a bodyguard action. You will target that same person with a vigilante action that has a 50% chance of working. You will die instead of your target if they were to be killed that night. Aligned with town.

Ms Procrastinator has died. They were:
Tracker Miller: Every night you may target one person and you will learn who they targeted that night. You appear as Mafia to Cops that inspect you. Aligned with town.

genny has died. They were:
Hated Werewolf Hater: Werewolf Factional Kill + Communication. Once per night, you may target player at night to make them Hated for the next day, where they will take one less vote to be hammered. Aligned with the Werewolves.

BobLoblaw78 has die. They were:
Criphound: Every night you may target one person. You will be told if they possess a negative utility role, or otherwise. If you are protected by any other role in the game, you will automatically die. Aligned with Town.
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@Viscernable she is confirmed town
 
Viscernable said:
I don’t really get why MsP being vitecleared from being a wolf means wolves definitely NKed her. She still could have been mafia or another alignment town wants to vote out, so still could have been a future yeet that saves a wolf from being yeeted. I’m not saying wolves didn’t kill her, but I don’t think we should assume it.
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just in case everyone skips over it, this is super weird and why I tagged visc in the writeup.
 
sunshinefl said:
but she can use that as a defense and giggle the whole time she pulls it off
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At the very least, I have a really hard time believing AM was on the same team as Alissa. She got very irritated at one point yesterday & acted like AM was selling her out, and I feel like that conversation would have happened in wolf chat if they were both wolves.

It doesn't eliminate the possibility AM is something else.
 
JustPaws said:
Big freaking suprise considering the only game we have ever not gone after each other all game long was the one game I told you I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt and you were chill all game and then were a fraking woof
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Lol don't remember any of this but I believe it
 
PippyPony said:
At the very least, I have a really hard time believing AM was on the same team as Alissa. She got very irritated at one point yesterday & acted like AM was selling her out, and I feel like that conversation would have happened in wolf chat if they were both wolves.

It doesn't eliminate the possibility AM is something else.
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I agree. Probably not Alissa's packmate. Could be other anti-town faction or 3P.
 
Viscernable said:
I don’t really get why MsP being vitecleared from being a wolf means wolves definitely NKed her. She still could have been mafia or another alignment town wants to vote out, so still could have been a future yeet that saves a wolf from being yeeted. I’m not saying wolves didn’t kill her, but I don’t think we should assume it.
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The thing is, the exclusive scum can't win with other exclusive scum. So mafia, sk, cultists, etc. are just as much as a threat to wolves as they are to village.
 
sunshinefl said:
just in case everyone skips over it, this is super weird and why I tagged visc in the writeup.
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She's writing from the POV of a killing faction that didn't know MsP's alignment last night. MsP being on alissa cleared her of being a wolf partner, but not some other type of scum, at that time.
 
PippyPony said:
@Zenge142 I will expect to see justification with your reasoning, including who would be on my wolf team

I think I'm actually doing a pretty decent job of wolf hunting this game and thought I was going to get killed last night for it.
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I'll let Zenge answer first, but I have my own thing to say about this.
 
Crayola227 said:
She's writing from the POV of a killing faction that didn't know MsP's alignment last night. MsP being on alissa cleared her of being a wolf partner, but not some other type of scum, at that time.
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ohhhh I did not read it that way. But yeah wolves would only know she wasn't a wolf.

which brings us to, besides the weird role mechanisms, could mafia or other factions night kill? is that why we have 4 night one deaths?
 
PippyPony said:
Hey what color was alissa in the write up? Does anyone have that post handy?
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Dr. ForgotToFlush said:
Night 1 flavour: I went to McDonald's today. Got a Big Mac and fries.

alyssa14 has been voted out. They were:

Werewolf Gravedigger Psycho-trooper: Werewolf Factional Kill + Communication. You show up on any results received by a motion detecting role. All other inspect roles receive the opposite results. Aligned with Werewolves.
Click to expand...

Dr. ForgotToFlush said:
View attachment 335361
Night 1 flavour: I overslept. Playing Minecraft until 5 and then needing to wake up at 9 is not fun.

Chaostrodon has died. They were:
Compulsive Blind Bodyguard Faith Vigilante: Each night you will randomly, compulsively target someone with a bodyguard action. You will target that same person with a vigilante action that has a 50% chance of working. You will die instead of your target if they were to be killed that night. Aligned with town.

Ms Procrastinator has died. They were:
Tracker Miller: Every night you may target one person and you will learn who they targeted that night. You appear as Mafia to Cops that inspect you. Aligned with town.

genny has died. They were:
Hated Werewolf Hater: Werewolf Factional Kill + Communication. Once per night, you may target player at night to make them Hated for the next day, where they will take one less vote to be hammered. Aligned with the Werewolves.

BobLoblaw78 has die. They were:
Criphound: Every night you may target one person. You will be told if they possess a negative utility role, or otherwise. If you are protected by any other role in the game, you will automatically die. Aligned with Town.
Click to expand...
 
sunshinefl said:
ohhhh I did not read it that way. But yeah wolves would only know she wasn't a wolf.

which brings us to, besides the weird role mechanisms, could mafia or other factions night kill? is that why we have 4 night one deaths?
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wait now that I think about that more, the wolves would already know she wasn't a wolf because she wasn't in wolf chat with them. So they didn't even need her vote and cross vote with Alissa to know she wasn't a wolf so now im back to be confused about why this even matters.
 
sunshinefl said:
ohhhh I did not read it that way. But yeah wolves would only know she wasn't a wolf.

which brings us to, besides the weird role mechanisms, could mafia or other factions night kill? is that why we have 4 night one deaths?
Click to expand...
Wolves, mafia, and serial killers can all night kill . Not sure if the role list had othera
 
Animal Midwife said:
The thing is, the exclusive scum can't win with other exclusive scum. So mafia, sk, cultists, etc. are just as much as a threat to wolves as they are to village.
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And I'll point out that it's valid to say that if wolves were considering killing MsP, that they would have considered the odds of her being a possible future misyeet instead as well, because that's a common part of NK choice analysis. And while it's possible village and others might have voted her out later, her interactions with alissa did give her some pro-town cred, whether that was correct or incorrect, and they would have correctly deduced that she would be a less attractive yeet option relatively speaking.
 
sunshinefl said:
but she can use that as a defense and giggle the whole time she pulls it off
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I know, but I'm not basing my whole read off of that. It just helps. The majority of my read is based off of everything she's posted since the game has started, and I feel like when I was the only person alive screaming for her head the last time she wolfed in a normal game, I can feel pretty good about my non-scum read of her.
 
sunshinefl said:
ohhhh I did not read it that way. But yeah wolves would only know she wasn't a wolf.

which brings us to, besides the weird role mechanisms, could mafia or other factions night kill? is that why we have 4 night one deaths?
Click to expand...
Yes, traditionally non-village scum factions like wolves and mafia each have their own factional NK.
 
Aprilthearab said:
I know, but I'm not basing my whole read off of that. It just helps. The majority of my read is based off of everything she's posted since the game has started, and I feel like when I was the only person alive screaming for her head the last time she wolfed in a normal game, I can feel pretty good about my non-scum read of her.
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Haha that's what she wants you to think. There was a time when others asked AM or I to evaluate the other. But even that was eventually crushed
 
Zenge142 said:
Knowing now what Dubz’s role is, makes me reevaluate the Dubz/Pippy interactions, and lean more wolfy on Pippy.
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I’m interested in this. Her stubborn and vocal refusal to accept a claim until she could verify it herself, even at the expense of people finding her suspicious for it, seems more like sincere scumhunting* to me. What makes you read her more wolfy for it?

* I will continue to use scum to mean “village-exclusive or inherently antivillage (e.g. serial killer) wincon”. @Crayola227 and @Animal Midwife have their view of it and that’s fine, but their definition isn’t the only one. I’ve always used mafiascum’s “Scum is a catch-all term for any member of an informed minority” and Starcraft Mafia Wiki’s “Scum – Refers to any role that is opposed to the Town winning the game, mostly notably any Mafia/ Triad or Neutral Evil role. The Town's objective is usually to eliminate all of the scum in a game via lynch or night kill”. I don’t see the point of using it to just mean non-village... it leaves you without a short way to say “roles/factions that village needs dead”, and you might as well just say non-village.
 
JustPaws said:
Haha that's what she wants you to think. There was a time when others asked AM or I to evaluate the other. But even that was eventually crushed
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I can't say anything with 100% certainty, but she's my strongest village read right now. I'm disappointed that my other two village reads died (and flipped village) and I'm not letting go of this one without good reason
 
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