I can't decide whether I should attend Temple or Jefferson. I'm out of state so Jefferson would be cheaper for me, I really liked its location, and I know it's known for its clinical exposure with their numerous clinical sites. On the other hand Temple offers a very diverse patient population, I've heard it offers more research opportunities, and it seems to be on the rise with the brand new building and facilities they opened. I'd appreciate any input, thanks.
Jefferson vs. Temple
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I'd go with Jefferson. It's cheaper, possibly more reputable, but mainly because you really don't want to walk home from your surgery rotation at 1 a.m. from Temple hospital. Both good schools though, so you can't really go wrong.
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As someone who's a local...definitely Jeff. It's in a better area, it's more respected (as both a medical school and as a hospital, among locals at least), and it has an awesome alumni network which is apparently very helpful for residency applications. The main differences are location, attachment to a larger university, and class size (Temple 180 vs. Jeff's very large 250). Research-wise, they're about the same...Temple is not better. Jeff has actually pretty decent research for being without a real university attachment.
Wow, that is a really tough decision, albeit a good spot to be in.
I can't offer a conclusive one over the other, but here are some pros and cons in my mind (I'm headed to Philly next year as well.) Completely my own opinion.
For Jeff:
1. Nicest part of the city, with very condensed campus.
2. Cheaper.
3. Well-known, great reputation, extremely large alumni base.
4. Rotate through about 15 clinical sites in Phillly.
5. IMO definite emphasis on clinical medicine and not research.
Against Jeff:
1. HUGE class.
2. Can be expensive to live in center city if you wanna walk and don't wanna life in their dorms/apts.
3. While they do have ample research opportunities, from what med students have told me it is not overly emphasized, especially basic science research.
For Temple:
1. New building. Nice and cozy, but some think that, in the future, this will attract high caliber applicants. They are also trying to beef up their physician scientist program. I think that their new ammenities really puts Temple on the rise in terms of ranking for research medical schools.
2. Very well-known. Great regional reputation.
3. Option to rotate in Danville, Allentown and Pittsburgh. Could lead to a lot of exposure to physicians/patients that could really enhance your experience. Especially because Danville is part of the Geinsinger system which is nationally known for innovation in health care.
4. Interesting patient population.
5. Smaller class size.
6. Can be cheaper to live in the area around Temple.
Against Temple:
1. Some say the sun never sets on Temple. The campus is always well lit to ensure safety. Some think Temple's campus is dangerous. (Despite what everyone says, Temple is really no more dangerous than Jefferson IMO. There can be sketchy ppl all over the city all day long.)
2. More expensive.
There are really very few cons for either school. I can see how difficult it would be to be in this situation. In my mind they are really equivalent schools. I want to work with underserved populations, which might incline me to say Temple, but Jeff has JeffHOPE. Wow this tough!! Good luck my friend!!
I can't offer a conclusive one over the other, but here are some pros and cons in my mind (I'm headed to Philly next year as well.) Completely my own opinion.
For Jeff:
1. Nicest part of the city, with very condensed campus.
2. Cheaper.
3. Well-known, great reputation, extremely large alumni base.
4. Rotate through about 15 clinical sites in Phillly.
5. IMO definite emphasis on clinical medicine and not research.
Against Jeff:
1. HUGE class.
2. Can be expensive to live in center city if you wanna walk and don't wanna life in their dorms/apts.
3. While they do have ample research opportunities, from what med students have told me it is not overly emphasized, especially basic science research.
For Temple:
1. New building. Nice and cozy, but some think that, in the future, this will attract high caliber applicants. They are also trying to beef up their physician scientist program. I think that their new ammenities really puts Temple on the rise in terms of ranking for research medical schools.
2. Very well-known. Great regional reputation.
3. Option to rotate in Danville, Allentown and Pittsburgh. Could lead to a lot of exposure to physicians/patients that could really enhance your experience. Especially because Danville is part of the Geinsinger system which is nationally known for innovation in health care.
4. Interesting patient population.
5. Smaller class size.
6. Can be cheaper to live in the area around Temple.
Against Temple:
1. Some say the sun never sets on Temple. The campus is always well lit to ensure safety. Some think Temple's campus is dangerous. (Despite what everyone says, Temple is really no more dangerous than Jefferson IMO. There can be sketchy ppl all over the city all day long.)
2. More expensive.
There are really very few cons for either school. I can see how difficult it would be to be in this situation. In my mind they are really equivalent schools. I want to work with underserved populations, which might incline me to say Temple, but Jeff has JeffHOPE. Wow this tough!! Good luck my friend!!
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Haha...I disagree with some of the stuff on the pro/cons list. Mainly because Jeff students and Temple students mainly live in the same area (i.e. Center City)...so they pay the relative same price for anything. Also, because Jeff is relatively close to the subway (walking distance), you can live in West Philly or North Philly if you really wanted to...or just commute to campus. And, Jeff also has a brand new building as well...plus better overall facilities (including lab space...Temple lab space is not very nice).
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Well after seeing the anatomy lab at Jefferson (housed in Alumni Hall), I can say that Temple definitely has the edge on that one. Not sure if that's what you meant, mdeast.
I'm trying to make this decision myself and I'm leaning towards Temple. I got the feeling that Temple is a little more down-to-earth (both students and faculty); they have a smaller class size; it seems like they have a better relationship with the community that they're trying to serve; Temple seems a little more progressive and less concerned with legacy/history; and I was concerned with the lack of diversity at Jefferson...
These are pretty subjective but sometimes you have to go with your gut I guess
I'm trying to make this decision myself and I'm leaning towards Temple. I got the feeling that Temple is a little more down-to-earth (both students and faculty); they have a smaller class size; it seems like they have a better relationship with the community that they're trying to serve; Temple seems a little more progressive and less concerned with legacy/history; and I was concerned with the lack of diversity at Jefferson...
These are pretty subjective but sometimes you have to go with your gut I guess
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I'm gonna try not to sound biased, but I clearly think Jeff is a better school. I applied and was accepted at both but have withdrawn and both places to go elsewhere. I also have grown up in Philly my whole life and have friends at both schools.
By lab space, I meant research labs, not anatomy lab. I was turned off by Temple because of the masked A/B/C/D grading system. Compare this to Jeff which has P/F/Honors, where Honors is a score cut-off (90%) not a curved % of the class. This is a HUGE, HUGE difference in creating a non-competitive atmosphere.
Temple is also notoriously disorganized, not just in the medical school but also all the other schools. I have a friend in the PT school who has so far hated her experience. And while the patient population is really diverse at Temple, the problem is that it's essentially a public hospital that mainly sees only one type of patient: the underserved. This is great, but it's also good to see a wider range of patients (both rich and poor) as a physician... as you'll likely be treating both over your career.
I also think the clinical training is better at Jeff. Jeff hospital has basically all-around better departments than Temple does, save maybe ER medicine. You get both poorer patients from Philly and wealthy patients from the suburbs who come in for specialized services. Jeff was founded as a medical school before it was a hospital, so it's mission has always been to train physicians and they treat their med students really well. The environment is just more focused on med students. They're constantly throwing them parties, organizing outside movie screenings, etc.
There are clear size differences, but I think it's hard to argue that you won't find similar diversity in a class of 250 than you would in a class of 180.
Don't get me wrong, I think Temple is a good school and it's getting better than what it was. But personally, I just feel like Jeff is a better institution. Again, this is coming from a Philly native who's undergrad institution practically feeds into both these schools.
I also applied to both and was accepted at both - withdrew from Temple and will most likely be matriculating at Jeff (holding one more waitlist). The thing that really got me is that by going to Jeff, I will be able to live within walking distance from the school. Temple students must travel around 10-20 min or so minimum to get to their med school, whether they live in center city or in one of the neighboring areas such as manayunk. While this is not something to choose a medical school over, it certainly has its influence.
Also I am not entirely sure where you are getting the idea that Temple students seem more down to earth. I attended both second looks and from what I could tell, both groups of students seemed to be coming from the exact same attitudes. You have to figure that a large proportion of the students applying to one of these schools will also have applied to the other as well due to their location in Philly and relative rank.
One of the major selling points for me was Jeff's campus vs Temple's single building. Yeah I mean Temple's med school is one helluva nice building but when I see Jeff's green campus in the middle of the large city of Philadelphia, I just get a warm feeling about it. Again, something like this shouldn't be enough for one to choose a medical school, but when two schools are so close, this stuff is what counts.
And as mdeast mentioned, the grading systems undoubtably favor Jefferson.
Plus North Philly is scary - my brother goes to Temple undergrad and anyone who says that North Philly is not scary clearly has not spent a few nights there.
Also I am not entirely sure where you are getting the idea that Temple students seem more down to earth. I attended both second looks and from what I could tell, both groups of students seemed to be coming from the exact same attitudes. You have to figure that a large proportion of the students applying to one of these schools will also have applied to the other as well due to their location in Philly and relative rank.
One of the major selling points for me was Jeff's campus vs Temple's single building. Yeah I mean Temple's med school is one helluva nice building but when I see Jeff's green campus in the middle of the large city of Philadelphia, I just get a warm feeling about it. Again, something like this shouldn't be enough for one to choose a medical school, but when two schools are so close, this stuff is what counts.
And as mdeast mentioned, the grading systems undoubtably favor Jefferson.
Plus North Philly is scary - my brother goes to Temple undergrad and anyone who says that North Philly is not scary clearly has not spent a few nights there.
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Thanks for the perspective guys. I'll try to express a couple of my thoughts...
I guess what I was referring to in regards to diversity is that in a given class of 250 students at Jefferson, <5 self reported Black according to MSAR. While this isn't a deciding factor by any means, I find it a little strange in a city that is majority Black. And yes, I know, I was there for the diversity talk at second look too...it's not all about race.
But I wonder if this says anything about the relationship Jeff has with the community? Does it say anything about Jeff administration being progressive vs. conservative?
You're right that Temple sees tons of underserved patients. But you have the option of rotating at many affiliates (as you do at Jeff as well) so you can get broad experience there.
I think it's a little rash to flat out say that Jefferson has better clinical training. Both schools are known for producing excellent clinicians.
Forsberg, you're right...the students who attend these schools are both very similar. They are both incredibly down to earth and willing to talk to you about anything. Please don't take this the wrong way...it was more of a feeling that I got.
And yes, you guys are right...grading system is better at Jeff and it's obviously in a better part of the city.
And although it doesn't mean much, Temple just shot up 7 spots ahead of Jefferson in US News rankings. Again...pretty much the same, but this could suggest that TUSM is on the rise.
I guess what I was referring to in regards to diversity is that in a given class of 250 students at Jefferson, <5 self reported Black according to MSAR. While this isn't a deciding factor by any means, I find it a little strange in a city that is majority Black. And yes, I know, I was there for the diversity talk at second look too...it's not all about race.
But I wonder if this says anything about the relationship Jeff has with the community? Does it say anything about Jeff administration being progressive vs. conservative?
You're right that Temple sees tons of underserved patients. But you have the option of rotating at many affiliates (as you do at Jeff as well) so you can get broad experience there.
I think it's a little rash to flat out say that Jefferson has better clinical training. Both schools are known for producing excellent clinicians.
Forsberg, you're right...the students who attend these schools are both very similar. They are both incredibly down to earth and willing to talk to you about anything. Please don't take this the wrong way...it was more of a feeling that I got.
And yes, you guys are right...grading system is better at Jeff and it's obviously in a better part of the city.
And although it doesn't mean much, Temple just shot up 7 spots ahead of Jefferson in US News rankings. Again...pretty much the same, but this could suggest that TUSM is on the rise.
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I didn't say better clinical training. I said better departments. Jeff has the Wills Eye Institute, a great orthopedic center, and an awesome neurology department. Temple isn't really well known in the Philly area to be distinguished in any specialty that I know of. You might see some cool critical care surgery there though, and I think their ER department is way more fun.
Yes, you have affiliates..and you will spend time there...but at the end of the day most of your time will either be spent at Temple Hospital of Jefferson Main Hospital. Jeff has better departments (and to me, better residency programs), so this means the weight of the people writing you recommendations for certain specialties might be greater.
Don't get me wrong, I interviewed at Temple and was super impressed by the new building. But, I still think Jeff is a better school.
The point about diversity is an interesting one and I recently got some insight into how Jefferson approaches it. During a small group time (groups of 12 students and 2 faculty members that meet ~once a month) focused on discussing race and medicine, we asked one of our leaders, the Sr. Vice President of Academics Affairs at Jefferson, why there weren't more minorities in the medical school class.
His answer was two-fold.
- First of all, Jefferson doesn't lower the standards for minorities, but does actively recruit them. While I don't know what other schools do, it could skew the numbers a bit. According to the admission stats for the past year, they interviewed 111 URMs, accepted 82 and 37 matriculated (you can find more stats here: http://www.jefferson.edu/jmc/annualreport/Admissions.pdf)
- Second of all, Jefferson is not connected with an undergraduate university, so there's really no base pool of applicants who are familiar with the support that Jefferson has in place. There was a recent article in the New Physician (AMSA's magazine) that showcased one of the schools that's been very successful with URM recruitment (UMDNJ). One of the biggest factors for their success was the fact that they had a pipeline built into local colleges like Rutgers, and even high schools to identify URMs that would be good candidates for medical school.
Historically Jefferson has not been the most progressive school (last medical school to have a co-ed class), but all the higher up administrative, admissions people that I've met have been extremely progressive and try to push the envelope when it comes to diversity in both the class make-up as well as the medical school experience.
Regardless, when it comes down to Temple vs Jeff, you should really go with your gut and figure out where you would fit the best/be the happiest. They're both great schools and I have friends at Temple who are happy with their experience there.
Forsberg and a721, welcome to Jeff if you guys end up matriculating. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
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