UCLA vs. Mayo

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migatz

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I hope that I don’t piss people off with this thread, but I could really use some input right now. To start … I’m not a troll … I’m not going to base my decisions on others’ opinions alone … so please hold the negative energy for someone else.

Background: I’m interested in Urology and continuing my work in HIV/AIDS (maybe even tying the two together, specifically circumcision and effects on GU). I would like to continue my work with the homeless community and disparities that affect marginalized groups. I grew up in SoCal and went to UCLA for undergrad. My significant other lives in LA.

Any advice?

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I hope that I don’t piss people off with this thread, but I could really use some input right now. To start … I’m not a troll … I’m not going to base my decisions on others’ opinions alone … so please hold the negative energy for someone else.

Background: I’m interested in Urology and continuing my work in HIV/AIDS (maybe even tying the two together, specifically circumcision and effects on GU). I would like to continue my work with the homeless community and disparities that affect marginalized groups. I grew up in SoCal and went to UCLA for undergrad. My significant other lives in LA.

Any advice?

Both will be fine. Go where you like!
 
I hope that I don’t piss people off with this thread, but I could really use some input right now. To start … I’m not a troll … I’m not going to base my decisions on others’ opinions alone … so please hold the negative energy for someone else.

Background: I’m interested in Urology and continuing my work in HIV/AIDS (maybe even tying the two together, specifically circumcision and effects on GU). I would like to continue my work with the homeless community and disparities that affect marginalized groups. I grew up in SoCal and went to UCLA for undergrad. My significant other lives in LA.

Any advice?

Well, I think the vibrant homeless community of Rochester, Minnesota would be happy to welcome you... did you even read your own post?
 
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Well, I think the vibrant homeless community of Rochester, Minnesota would be happy to welcome you... did you even read your own post?

A lot of people from Mayo end up coming up to Minneapolis--which does have a, erm, "vibrant" homeless community--for community service opportunities (and rotations). But you pretty much need a car to make that trek, and it's an hour drive if you speed.

Sounds to me like UCLA would be a better fit for you.
 
Doesn't Mayo give some form of scholarship to every incoming student?
 
Some things to keep in mind that you might not be aware of:

The Urology department at UCLA is incredibly strong. I believe its ranked #4 or something. This could help you develop some very useful connections.

Quality of life as a medical student will DEFINITELY be higher at UCLA. The curriculum during the first 2 years is much chiller/less anxiety producing than at any other school Ive heard about

Having said that, I have a good friend at Mayo who loves it. You will get a more personalized experience there as the class is much smaller. Mentorship could conceivably be better as there is a better faculty/student ratio. I get the impression that the curriculum at Mayo is more rigorous, for better or worse.

UCLA hospital network is expansive. During my third year I will spend time rotating at a luxury private hospital (Cedars Sinai), a quaternary care academic powerhouse (UCLA medical center) as well as 2 other UCLA operated county hospitals. As far as I'm aware there is no school with as expansive a hospital network as UCLA. There are something like 20 different hospitals, all in different practice environments, in which you can rotate. You wont find this sort of diversity both in hospital environment as well as patient population, at Mayo. Interested in underserved or HIV? Mayo doesnt sound like a great place to be. Whereas the very first cases of HIV were diagnosed at UCLA medical center.

Also keep in mind where you intend to practice. It can be VERY difficult to come back to Calfornia from a school elsewhere. Something like 70 percent of our grads stay in CA. Do not underestimate how big of an impact regional bias can play on where you end up for residency.


2nd year at UCLA is awesome. Tons of free time and if you spend your time wisely you can have an awesome lifestyle and be in a great position to dominate the boards. On average I spent 2 days a week surfing in Malibu over my first 2 years. I dont see how that could be possible at any other school
 
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I think Mayo may be one of the best possible places to do a residency in urology, simply because of the resources and case load of rare and unusual cases (especially oncologic). That said, UCLA does seem like a much better fit for this particular applicant.

Some things to keep in mind that you might not be aware of:

The Urology department at UCLA is incredibly strong. I believe its ranked #4 or something. This could help you develop some very useful connections.

Quality of life as a medical student will DEFINITELY be higher at UCLA. The curriculum during the first 2 years is much chiller/less anxiety producing than at any other school Ive heard about

Having said that, I have a good friend at Mayo who loves it. You will get a more personalized experience there as the class is much smaller. Mentorship could conceivably be better as there is a better faculty/student ratio. I get the impression that the curriculum at Mayo is more rigorous, for better or worse.

UCLA hospital network is expansive. During my third year I will spend time rotating at a luxury private hospital (Cedars Sinai), a quaternary care academic powerhouse (UCLA medical center) as well as 2 other UCLA operated county hospitals. As far as I'm aware there is no school with as expansive a hospital network as UCLA. There are something like 20 different hospitals, all in different practice environments, in which you can rotate. You wont find this sort of diversity both in hospital environment as well as patient population, at Mayo. Interested in underserved or HIV? Mayo doesnt sound like a great place to be. Whereas the very first cases of HIV were diagnosed at UCLA medical center.

Also keep in mind where you intend to practice. It can be VERY difficult to come back to Calfornia from a school elsewhere. Something like 70 percent of our grads stay in CA. Do not underestimate how big of an impact regional bias can play on where you end up for residency.


2nd year at UCLA is awesome. Tons of free time and if you spend your time wisely you can have an awesome lifestyle and be in a great position to dominate the boards. On average I spent 2 days a week surfing in Malibu over my first 2 years. I dont see how that could be possible at any other school
 
if your sig other doesn't mind moving with you (or possibly doing a few years long term), you would be ridiculous to turn down mayo and not go. every person who I have seen go to/ come out of mayo has been nothing short of amazing. ucla is world class, but not mayo world class :) in the end, both are great so just trust your gut!
 
if your sig other doesn't mind moving with you (or possibly doing a few years long term), you would be ridiculous to turn down mayo and not go. every person who I have seen go to/ come out of mayo has been nothing short of amazing. ucla is world class, but not mayo world class :) in the end, both are great so just trust your gut!

It's funny how opinions differ. I can't see a reason why you would choose Mayo other than the fact tuition might be less or free.
 
mayo, EASY. The name of the hospital is equivalent to johns hopkins!
 
It's funny how opinions differ. I can't see a reason why you would choose Mayo other than the fact tuition might be less or free.

mayo has a cult following on SDN...didn't you know? Them people crazy....

although, there are plenty of reasons why people would choose mayo. The hospital is world class and mayo medical students have a shoe in to the residency. mayo's curriculum allows you to study a field/topic then take 1-2 weeks off to do practical stuff within that field/topic. small class size allows for tight knit group. if you're a fan of winter sports/activities. free computer for the incoming class. if you're a fan of the demographics/types of patients there in the area. etc. etc. etc.

personally, I'd choose UCLA over Mayo 100 times out of 100 since I live in California. But there are plenty of "legit" reasons to pick Mayo over UCLA.

EDIT: before anyone flames me, "legit" is in quotes because many of the reasons cited for choosing one medical school over another don't really apply to everyone. For example, people say Mayo's small class size is a plus. Well...for me, it's a minus. To each to his/her own.
 
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mayo has a cult following on SDN...didn't you know? Them people crazy....

although, there are plenty of reasons why people would choose mayo. The hospital is world class and mayo medical students have a shoe in to the residency. mayo's curriculum allows you to study a field/topic then take 1-2 weeks off to do practical stuff within that field/topic. small class size allows for tight knit group. if you're a fan of winter sports/activities. free computer for the incoming class. if you're a fan of the demographics/types of patients there in the area. etc. etc. etc.

personally, I'd choose UCLA over Mayo 100 times out of 100 since I live in California. But there are plenty of "legit" reasons to pick Mayo over UCLA.

Mayo is no doubt a fantastic hospital that many people fly half way across the world to attend. On the other hand, I doubt private patients (paying $$$) flew that far to have med students work their case. I'd be a little worried about hands on time and procedural experience. That being said, I've never even visited mayo, so I could be completely off.
 
Again, speaking solely from perception, I don't think you're going to get a broad clinical education at Mayo. Mayo is where kings and sultans fly in to get health care.

Go to UCLA, and you can rotate through Cedars-Sinai (Mayo-like, private, rich institution), Olive-View, the UCLA Academic Hospital, the VA - a total of 20 or so affiliated institutions that span from working with underserved poor in a community clinic (how do we treat patients who might be uninsured?) to working at an academic setting (what's the difference in dynamic and interactions here?) to working at the ritzyest, nicest places (you'll likely get a higher F-You to Thank-You ratio here).
 
Doing procedures during the clinical years is fun for med students but ultimately isn't all that useful. You're not going to get asked to do anything really critical, and certainly not with enough regularity to master anything short of opening/closing. What is useful is seeing and learning things from faculty and residents. At Mayo, there's very few med students and tons of faculty, my guess is the attendings that would work with med students are ones that want to, meaning they'd be more willing to teach and demonstrate things.

That said, the things that ARE useful to learn by doing during the clinical years are history taking, and being able to recognize whether a patient is really sick or not, and what the immediate next steps in management would be. I think you'd probably be able to do this more at UCLA.
 
anyone that says to go to UCLA instead of mayo is only saying that because they want that spot at mayo and you are just rip for the picking.


MAYO>>>>UCLA
 
anyone that says to go to UCLA instead of mayo is only saying that because they want that spot at mayo and you are just rip for the picking.


MAYO>>>>UCLA

right..........I would actually prefer the OP to go to Mayo so I can take that spot at UCLA.....
 
I think there are some misperceptions about Mayo. I haven't trained there as student or resident, but logged several years working in the hospital. From what I've seen first-hand and heard from those training there, despite it's reputation none of the patients are considered "private patients" or off limits to the residents. The residents work with everyone. I would assume the mindset is similar for medical student access. People have tried to say you couldn't get good surgery residency training because you wouldn't be allowed to operate as much due to the "special patients" That's been debunked in other threads by people who've done it and found it was quite the opposite. Sometimes I even wonder if the residents get too much access too soon.

Mayo has had a strong interest in training other physicians since it started and that philosophy has spread to the patients who respect the fact it is a teaching hospital. Most of them want to contribute to the learning experience of the residents and students. The majority of the patients aren't royalty, a lot of them are just patients from the area like you'd find at any other hospital. There's plenty of bread and butter stuff. There used to be a list of procedures posted on the school website about procedures students would do and it looked like quite a bit more was allowed/required than other places.

That said, it might not be ideal for the OPs interests, but I wanted to clear up a few things. He should talk to current students about opps. that he's interested in.
 
anyone that says to go to UCLA instead of mayo is only saying that because they want that spot at mayo and you are just rip for the picking.


MAYO>>>>UCLA

I thought I recall you loving UCLA. Then you redacted all those good things you said about UCLA in the thread. Now you badmouth UCLA in all the threads. Whhhyyy ;( ?

Anyhow OP, if you have the chance to go to second-looks, do that and see if one speaks more to you. Having you SO and support network seems like a great reason to end up in LA! But Mayo is a great spot - you can't choose wrongly!
 
Mayo is a great school.

But for your stated goals, UCLA is a no-brainer.
 
Mayo is no doubt a fantastic hospital that many people fly half way across the world to attend. On the other hand, I doubt private patients (paying $$$) flew that far to have med students work their case. I'd be a little worried about hands on time and procedural experience. That being said, I've never even visited mayo, so I could be completely off.

This is one of two main perceptions about Mayo that I've noted on SDN for a while. It is simply not true. Not "everything" here is zebras at all. Mayo serves a HUGE catchment area in the midwest, comprising mostly small towns in minnesota/wisconsin/iowa and rural areas. You get PLENTY of bread and butter. Additionally, Rochester has the second largest refugee population of Somali's in the US.

As a medical student I had done 4 thoracentesis, 2 paracenteses, 5 lumbar punctures, 2 central lines and that's not counting all the other little procedures too. I assure you that because medical students are a rarity here, residents/fellows/consultants love to teach us how to do procedures (as well as teach in general and offer tons of research opps). I also know that my procedure list far exceeds what my peers at other great institutions have done. And to be fair, in terms of involvement, if you expect to do well third/fourth year you MUST be functioning at an intern level. Multiple top programs that I interviewed at mentioned how much they "Love Mayo med students because X was one of the best residents they've ever had." In a nutshell, you'll be well prepared for residency as being autonomous is something that will be expected of you 3rd/4th year (which is not the case at a number of schools).

The other perception is that Mayo doesn't "match" to NE programs. I've broken down the statistics on this years match list based on tiers of programs (i.e BWH/MGH/UCSF/JHU.

Excluding the MD/OMS combined students (who automatically match at Mayo for residency)... there were 42 people this year who applied to residency. I'll break this down by tiers of programs.

Institutions matched into:
1) MGH/BWH/UCSF/JHU: 11/42 (26%)
- Most competitive programs in the country for almost everything.

2) Duke/UCLA/Northwestern/Vandy/Cornell/U Mich/Wash U: 7/42 (17%)
- Would broadly group these together in terms of competitiveness.

3) Mayo: 15/42 (36%)
- List separately because alot match here.

So approximately 80% of our class matched at the above places. ALOT of people that matched elsewhere, to smaller-name programs, did because they chose too (family, location etc...), not because they didn't get great interviews.

In terms of the super-competitive stuff:
Derm/Radiology/Rad-Onc/Ortho/Med-Derm - 11/42 (26%)


I hope this helps with some of the stereotypes that people tend to throw out about Mayo. The medical school is incredible, and most of our applications coming out of school here blow people out of the water (USMLE average of 240, almost everyone has multiple Pubs, a third of our class tends to take a years off to do JD/MPH/research year).

In the end, I think for the OP's goals (in terms of access to an HIV population) however, you should go to UCLA. UCLA is a fantastic place and a MUCH better location. I don't think it is as EASY to obtain opportunities (as a medical student) there as it is at Mayo. This is probably a function of Mayo's tiny class size. I have two close friends at UCLA med who will openly admit that they have not had the depth and breath of opportunities, as well as funding, that I've had.

I do think Mayo is a wonderful, unique place that would be difficult to pass up (especially for the price and really innovative/progressive curriculum). In the end, go with your gut feeling. Happiness influences success!
 
Both are great schools. I would base my decision on where you wanted to live. I would also consider where you would prefer to go for residency. I get the feeling that many of the top california programs seem to prefer students from the california schools but that is hard to separate from student preferences as well.
 
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