2008-2009 George Washington University (GWU) Secondary Application Thread

[204090]

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can we get our secondary money back if we withdraw our application because of this? since this is clearly their problem and their application was double the money of some other schools?

 

[SlickNickMD]

I thought this was an interview letter......


At first I was like😀

Then i was like😱

 

[M3dhop3ful]

"The School is already developing an action plan to correct the noted areas that did not meet the LCME's standards including curriculum management, lounge and study space for students, and internal administrative processes."

Putting the spinning aside, what does this REALLY mean? especially the curriculum management part?

 

[tacrum43]

i read that their board passage rate for USMLE step 1 was in the low 80s, which also contributed to their probationary status...


of course, that wasn't included in the email they sent me...

Well that's not true. The average pass rate (for the past couple years anyway...dunno about this year yet) was 95% (national avg. = 93%).

 

[FF430]

look on the bright side. they know you exist! plus our chances are going way up. everyone keep withdrawing!

I doubt a school thats been around for 100+ years is going to just go under over some minor things. They have the money to make it right. I'm not worried.

That's what everyone though about Lehman Brothers, who had been around for more than 150 years. But i am playing the devil's advocate; I'm with you, i don't think they will lose their accreditation either (hmm Im starting to sound like the stock holders of Lehman Brothers from 6 months ago...)

 

[nellia]

ok so will GWU give me an interview NOW?

 

[mbe36]

How does this affect the current application process??



-Are they inviting/interviewing as normal?

 

[jab719]

How does this affect the current application process??



-Are they inviting/interviewing as normal?

If their lounges, classrooms, etc., are already overcrowded they might take less students But who knows...

 

[GinGinChicken]

yes I may withdraw my application as well.

if they aren't up to par by the end of the probationary period, they lose accreditation. do you really want to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to graduate from a school that is unaccredited? you may as well study medicine outside the US, your chances are the same...

This is what we call in psych "negative attention-seeking behavior". Hahaha I love it. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[nellia]

doesn't this probation thing happen to rosalind franklin a lot ? that's what i've heard in the past, and they seem to be doing fine ..

 

[Dr Lyss]

That's what everyone though about Lehman Brothers, who had been around for more than 150 years. But i am playing the devil's advocate; I'm with you, i don't think they will lose their accreditation either (hmm Im starting to sound like the stock holders of Lehman Brothers from 6 months ago...)

HaHa so true! oh man the world is ending

 

[akajackbauer]

GW is going down...i just withdrew and got my $100 back....luckily im not a med student and lost my $300,000. 🙂

 

[GinGinChicken]

i read that their board passage rate for USMLE step 1 was in the low 80s, which also contributed to their probationary status...


of course, that wasn't included in the email they sent me...

I apologize - I misquoted. THIS is the negative attention-seeking. 😉

 

[Dr Lyss]

GW is going down...i just withdrew and got my $100 back....luckily im not a med student and lost my $300,000. 🙂

Yesss keep em coming haha. I kid I kid but seriously feel free to withdraw people... what is this $100,000 figure people keep throwing around. Last time I checked tuition was around $50 thou like everyone else...

 

[pjg]

aka how'd you get your money back?

 

[DrMattOglesby]

well...wouldnt you want a full refund if you withdrew your app?
the fee was $125, not $100 😉

 

[kalia]

So...does GWU take your best score from each MCAT that's you've written.

 

[DrMattOglesby]

So...does GWU take your best score from each MCAT that's you've written.

That they do!
It's stated on their info page found here.

How do you view MCAT scores if an applicant took the test more than once? The Committee on Admissions accepts the highest score in each section. Please keep in mind that for Fall 2009 admissions the Committee will consider MCAT scores from April 2006-September 2008 only.

 

[Jbirdy]

Dear Applicant:
We are contacting you on behalf of the GW School of Medicine and Health Sciences. We are pleased that you are successfully moving through the application process and we want to keep you informed of a recent development.

The George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences completed earlier this month its accreditation process which reviewed the program leading to the MD degree.

As a result of the review, the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME) placed the program on probationary status. All School programs remain fully accredited during the probationary period.
The School is already developing an action plan to correct the noted areas that did not meet the LCME's standards including curriculum management, lounge and study space for students, and internal administrative processes. The School has up to 24 months to address these issues and plans to complete its work within the academic year.
The School is committed to academic excellence and to providing a superior education for its medical students. The LCME commended the School for providing students with a strong educational experience and for its instructional expertise and diverse student body. Nevertheless, the School readily accepts the need to rememdy the LCME's concerns and will work promptly and diligently to do so.

The LCME is the nationally recognized accrediting authority for medical education programs leading to the MD degree in U.S. and Canadian medical schools. All medical schools must undergo review every eight years to be accredited by the LCME through the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) and the American Medical Association (AMA).

If you have any questions regarding this information, please visit the GW School of Medicine and Health Sciences at http://www.gwumc.edu/smhs/lcme/; contact the GW School of Medicine and Health Sciences Office of Admissions at [email protected] or call (202) 994-3506. We want to ensure that your questions and concerns will be promptly addressed.

To learn more about the LCME, visit: www.lcme.org
Contact information for the LCME:
Dan Hunt, MD, MBA
LCME Secretary
Association of American Medical Colleges
2450 N Street NW, Washington, DC 20037
Phone: (202) 828-0596
Barbara Barzansky, PhD
LCME Secretary
Council on Medical Education
American Medical Association
515 North State Street, Chicago, Illinois 60610
Phone: (312) 464-4933

 

[silverhorse84]

I thought this was an interview letter......


At first I was like😀

Then i was like😱

Haha, I thought the exact same thing! I saw the email and though "oh wow, I was JUST there, I guess I'm going back 🙂" and then I saw that it said informational, and thought "well maybe not." Then I read it and was thoroughly disappointed - an interview invite would have been so much better! 😛

 

[JamesBond15]

GW is going down...i just withdrew and got my $100 back....luckily im not a med student and lost my $300,000. 🙂

I am almost certain you are BSing, I doubt they will refund the application fee. Plus, it wasn't $100 to start with.

 

[chewsnuffles]

I was in a meeting when I got this today, so I just skimmed it.

I was like, "I'm on probationary status??? Already??? I havn't even gotten an interview letter yet?!?!?"

Seriously, it took me 8 months when i was at my best before I got on any sort of probation... ah yes... those were the days...

 

[cubssox2000]

Any one know when they start giving out acceptances? I was in the first interview group, so I'm hoping to hear soon...

 

[sarahl86]

Yeah I found that e-mail very interesting...I wonder if they're fumbling around thinking "oh ****, there goes half our applicant pool"

 

[Vihsadas]

Yeah I found that e-mail very interesting...I wonder if they're fumbling around thinking "oh ****, there goes half our applicant pool"

Probably not since they get about 10K apps every year anyway...

 

[BambiMD]

Why couldn't this happen after my interview at GWU. Sheez, I hope there isn't an awkward vibe when I get there next week.

I second this. Is it going to be the pink elephant in the room?

But, I actually feel a bit less nervous now about the interview now. If I do/say something stupid, I'll just be thinking in my head, "well, at least I was never put on probation..."

Good luck next week.

 

[Food]

I came back on SDN for the first time in nearly a month just to check about this. I got the e-mail today. I had already decided not to send a secondary there about a month ago because it was the most expensive one, and had a pretty high number of applications in previous years. I don't regret the decision now...although I am sure that GW will be fine as an institution.

 

[frusciante]

As a current student at GWU-Med I was surprised that the LCME would elevate such small matters to such a high level. From the dean's discussion today, the biggest issues left to be corrected were related to the semantics of curriculum objectives and lack of a student requested lounge area in the medical school. With respect to the first issue, GW-Med graduates score higher and match better residency programs than most schools in the US... Who gives a ____ if the curriculum objectives are too general, so long as they work, right?? I can safely say that every class I'm taking now is far better than any undergraduate course I took, both in terms of organization and content. The lack of a student lounge in the medical school building is rediculous as well... There are 3 starbucks within 2 blocks of the front door of the building and the hospital lounge is across the courtyard. The university has many lounge areas and study areas across campus, the need for a specific lounge with food/drink within the building is superfluous.

The reality is that GWU got spanked for not meeting all the LCME requirements for accreditation and now has to build as student lounge and hire a group to completely revise the language, not the content, of the curriculum. The end result is that the LCME created bad press for GW, forced them to build a snack bar, and wasted student money on curriculum issues that will have absolutely no effect on overall outcome.

I hope that nobody really feels that this is a serious issue. GW has been teaching medical students since 1825 - its certainly not going to end anytime soon. Clearly if we had a high attrition rate or miserable board scores these sanctions would be reasonable, but the school is performing better than average.

On another note, we were asked to come to a special meeting to hear & discuss these issues this morning at 9:30 am. Our 2:30 pm lecture on coronary angiography was cancelled, because the professor was taking care of a very important patient at GWU Hospital. Around 4 pm, I walked out of the medical school to see Dick Cheney getting into his limo after leaving GWU Hospital... GWU Medicine isn't going under, thats for sure.

 

[poohbear00]

I've been debating on whether to send a letter of intent to GWU for a few days now considering I've been complete at the end of Aug. and haven't heard anything. Now that this whole probation thing is out, do you guys think a letter of intent would sound desperate?

 

[cheesyC]

edit

 

[kac714]

I don't care too much about GWU's accreditation status, but the above quote is a shocking violation of HIPAA. I hope that the updated curriculum includes teaching medical students about patients' right to privacy.

oh please. i read an article on cnn that cheney was in the hospital... clearly the poster wasn't saying anything that couldn't be found on a major news site.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27197318/

 

[janedo10]

http://www.gwumc.edu/smhs/lcme/

School of Medicine and Health Sciences LCME Accreditation Statement
Oct. 15, 2008

The George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences completed earlier this month its accreditation process which reviewed the program leading to the MD degree. As a result of the review, the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME) placed the program on probationary status. All School programs remain fully accredited during the probationary period.

The School is already developing an action plan to correct the noted areas that did not meet the LCME’s standards including curriculum management, lounge and study space for students, and internal administrative processes. The School has up to 24 months to address these issues and plans to complete its work within the academic year.
The School is committed to academic excellence and to providing a superior education for its medical students. The LCME commended the School for providing students with a strong educational experience and for its instructional expertise and diverse student body. Nevertheless, the School readily accepts the need to remedy the LCME’s concerns and will work promptly and diligently to do so.

The LCME is the nationally recognized accrediting authority for medical education programs leading to the MD degree in U.S. and Canadian medical schools. All medical schools must undergo review every eight years to be accredited by the LCME through the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) and the American Medical Association (AMA).

For more information, please send an email to:
[email protected]
LCME Contact Information:
Dan Hunt, MD, MBA
LCME Secretary
Association of American Medical Colleges
2450 N Street NW, Washington, DC 20037
Phone: (202) 828-0596

Barbara Barzansky, PhD
LCME Secretary
Council on Medical Education
American Medical Association
515 North State Street, Chicago, Illinois 60610
Phone: (312) 464-4933

 

[ohmedschool]

I've been debating on whether to send a letter of intent to GWU for a few days now considering I've been complete at the end of Aug. and haven't heard anything. Now that this whole probation thing is out, do you guys think a letter of intent would sound desperate?

Do you really want to attend this institution? If so, send away and hope for the best. If not, don't send one.

 

[mbe36]

LOL Would people please stop posting copies of the e-mail message?! We did not miss it and it takes up a lot of space.

 

[FF430]

LOL Would people please stop posting copies of the e-mail message?! We did not miss it and it takes up a lot of space.

LOL, I concur!

BTW, What car is that? (i mean ur avatar, seems like a rally bmw)

 

[JamesBond15]

i don't care too much about gwu's accreditation status, but the above quote is a shocking violation of hipaa. I hope that the updated curriculum includes teaching medical students about patients' right to privacy.

haha.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

I think its awesome. It might make getting a spot there a little easier now that they've scared a bunch of people.

Really would suck to be a year into med school and have it lose its accreditation though.

I agree with the other people who thought "all right, an interview". Bastads.

 

[MDean86]

I'm curious to know if any sort of warning was given to the school before it was put on probation or if this was just sprung on them following the accreditation earlier this month. I appreciate the current students coming on here and sharing their thoughts with us, but their response sounds exactly like what I'd expect to hear from people who just left a forum with the administrators of the school. I could be wrong, but I find it hard to believe that the LCME would place an institution on probation for what is simply a matter of semantics in the curriculum and a lack of sufficient lounge space. The weight carried by a probationary status is clear and I doubt it would be imposed flippantly to fix minor issues. I think the LCME understands that probation can have a serious impact on both a school's reputation and its applicant pool.

I side with an earlier poster who remarked on GW's antiquated admissions process and wondered whether or not it was indicative of deeper administrative problems at the school. I've wondered throughout the process whether or not it was fair to judge a school based on my interactions with the admissions office. In this case it seems to be fair.

I honestly think GW is going to have no problem getting out of this, but I still feel like serious questions need to be asked and answered. You don't really get a do-over in medical school so applicants and students need to know that this is something that will be resolved.

And seriously, saying that Cheney was at the hospital is a shocking HIPAA violation? It might not hurt to read some news every now and then...

 

[MilkmanAl]

I think you'll find that these "shocking" HIPAA violations occur constantly in any health care environment. I know that in the pharmacy it was pretty much impossible to not violate HIPAA all the time while still doing your job. Sometimes company policy mandated things that essentially forced HIPAA violations. As long as you're not flagging down people and saying, "Hey Mr. Smith has this disease," you're fine.

Anyway, back your regularly scheduled colossal GW freak-out.

 

[kalia]

I think Albany and RFU (Finch) were also placed on probationary status before. They both recovered.

 

[novastorm]

Since its too late to stop the more rash/brash/stupid? people from freaking out I would just like to reiterate two things. One is that no allopathic school that has been put on probation (and there have been many) have ever lost their accreditation. Secondly all the problems the LCME has do not effect students any any way shape or from, aside from apparently the need of more lounge space. So I now hope you feel slightly silly for withdrawing but your fellow applicants thank you. The funny part is nobody will even notice when the 'problems' are fixed, that's ultimately the most sad part of this whole affair.

 

[Demas567]

"George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences was put on probation by its academic accrediting organization for being out of compliance on several standards, school officials told students and faculty yesterday.

The school remains fully accredited while it makes improvements. But it is the only medical school accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education that is on probation and only the fifth put on probation since 1994. No medical school has ever lost its accreditation through this process, a stroke that would effectively kill the program...

Several fourth-year students said many of their classmates were worried that it might affect their chances in the extremely competitive residency selection process and expressed concern that prospective students might be scared away..."

For the full article, see http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/15/AR2008101503120.html

 

[misty marina]

Interesting, I was complete on 9/18. Did you do anything out of the ordinary?

Not particularly... Just sent everything in, and waited! 🙂

As far as my stats, I'm a non-science major (philosophy major/public policy minor) with 28-T mcat, 3.87 gpa (3.71 bcpm, 4.0 non-science). Lots of ECs (student government president, president of a few other campus clubs, mentor and peer educator for various programs, etc.), lots of bioethics research/internship experience.

GW is my first invite, and even in light of the recent news, I'm still really excited about it!

 

[smoke47]

Also withdrew. Similar reasons as chubbychaser.

Good luck to those of you still staying in the game!

 

[frusciante]

👎thumbdown👎thumbdown👎thumbdown👎I don't care too much about GWU's accreditation status, but the above quote is a shocking violation of HIPAA. I hope that the updated curriculum includes teaching medical students about patients' right to privacy.

Tell the washington post that... Here's a quote from their article:

"GWU, one of the nation's oldest medical schools, has about 700 students and a good reputation for quality care. Yesterday, Vice President Cheney was treated at George Washington University Hospital for an abnormal heartbeat."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/15/AR2008101503120.html

shocking.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

So i just got an email telling me that they would like to address my reason for withdrawal or something:

Dear Chubbychaser,

Thank you for your email. Your application has been withdrawn from GW's 2009 application year process.

We understand that this is a personal decision and we wish you the best in your future endeavors. However, in the case that the current development with our LCME status is the main reasoning for your withdraw, we would like the opportunity to address your concerns.


Sincerely,

Diane P. McQuail, M.A.

 

[FSAP]

I wish I could get a refund. That application was too expensive. Imagine the amount of coffee I could buy with that kind of money.

And chubbychaser, that sig is funny. Did it really happen?

 

[ChubbyChaser]

lol..it sure did.

 

[BTC]

Article 13.2.6.7.4.3.2.19871 of HIPPA Standards

Under no circumstances can anyone disclose the movement of famous persons spotted on the sidewalk. Particularly, any specific details of the person or his mode of transit is strictly and shockingly confidential and cannot be revealed to the public.



Dude, you messed up. Big time.

 

[nellia]

Article 13.2.6.7.4.3.2.19871 of HIPPA Standards

Under no circumstances can anyone disclose the movement of famous persons spotted on the sidewalk. Particularly, any specific details of the person or his mode of transit is strictly and shockingly confidential and cannot be revealed to the public.



Dude, you messed up. Big time.

ahahahah oh man i love SDN