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If I am ever in a good mood, I know just where to come to get rid of that pesky little thing. Right here. Here and my day trading account.
2008 - 2009 UNC Chapel Hill Secondary Application Thread
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You guys could always pull for LSU over UNC....that would devastate the Carolina world.
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Just to add a little to this flamewar.... all the aforementioned credentials as far as gpa, mcat etc are all well and good but that makes you very similar to all other applicants out there. I totally agree that well-roundedness is important to UNC. I mean 40-50% of the class is atypical majors. It is essential to see being a physician in the context of its place in the world as a profession. It would be shortsighted to see having only the basic sciences as preparing you for that career. I studied business management and minored in english with the intent that it would provide a useful context with which to view my career as a physician. Many of the other students i knew who got in did the same. If you think you are as qualified as others perhaps you are neglecting to examine certain details. Nothing irks me more than the way some pre-meds act about the whole process. I feel like a substantial percentage are in it for the reputation, prestige or whatever. Schools sense these things and know, perhaps its less arbitrary than you think.... I also firmly believe that they know who is a match for the school and who isn't.
To those of you who deserve it and haven't gotten in yet, you will, if its what you truly want. This comes from experience 😉
To those of you who deserve it and haven't gotten in yet, you will, if its what you truly want. This comes from experience 😉
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Yeahhhh. UNC won!
Thanks for actually talking about what I said in my posts.
Okay. I agree that being well-rounded is important. I actually included that in my posts along the stats, and other academic qualifications. But, think about this. For students who sincerely want to be doctors (not for reputation, money, whatever), do well very well academically, involve themselves in other activities, and have great sense of people's skills cannot be slapped down again and again. I know a lot of people (and these people know other people) who have these qualities but their I guess only "crime" was that they majored with sincerity in the sciences. It just isn't fair. Abt. the non-science majors. You chose to do something else with your life other than medicine. Why should they get priority over someone who is like you said well-rounded, normal decent personality, and with excellent academic qualifications? In fact, the "gallows" should be on them to prove why was your career track changed dramatically? (english to science is like migrating to another universe, literally!) I just cannot understand this about medical schools in this country. Almost the entire world does it differently and they make excellent physicians similar to the ones or sometimes even better (I am not saying this as I have no experience in comparing these kinds of things, but other well-respected us graduate doctors and a famous guy Dr. Goljan-us grads who teaches pathology say this) who graduate from us medical schools. Sorry, if this offends anyone. but, it is not meant to offend. I am simply saying that other schools around the world do not require the extra proof of skills, qualities that have been demonstrated of course with very good academics from science students more than non-science students.
And by saying "I also firmly believe that they know who is a match for the school and who isn't. " strongly supports what I have been saying all along. Medical schools are like "elite" clubs. Only people who are already in that club can determine who gets to join that club. Don't take this the wrong way because I sincerely WANT to be in medicine for the right reasons. I am just not afraid to question the inner workings of an institution that I will soon join. There are obviously massive changes needed in healthcare but I am just talking about one part of medicine, which is admissions. It could help rather than hurt the field.
Also, by saying that nothing irks me more than pre-meds wanting to be in it for reputation, prestige, blah blah blah. Remember, I am the one who said and rightly so because so many many people would back me up on this that medicine is mainly at its core (the scientific-like really important part without which medicine wouldn't advance) applied biology (and chemistry, physics assoc. with biology). so you are directing that comment at me. i could care less. but just saying. it's after all an anonymous forum. You can't make judgements on people.
My point is just that the kinds of qualities that I am talking about (which DOES include extra activities, great personality, people's skills) are no good if you are a science major (no matter how sincere you are about medicine or your major). People like these always have to end up taking a year off to prove themselves when logically no proof is required. I very much understand compassion and people's skills are imperative in medicine. But, a science major should not have to prove more than non-science majors that they have these qualities which will allow them to become excellent physicians.
go UNC.
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My guess is next week....but I have nothing to back it up with.
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Neils, i didn't direct that post specifically at you. I don't know you and admit that it may wholly not apply to you. I was just venting from personal experience at my UG institution with people i knew.
Yes, scientifically minded people are important for research and advancement but not all physicians gravitate toward those areas of medicine. I think with UNC its important to emphasize their primary care centered approach. With a school so concerned with public health initiatives, backgrounds which promote diversity are very important.
On the surface that all may seem hokey, but I think it important to emphasize that physicians are more than just scientists, especially in primary care. For example, a physician I know absolutly cannot run his business from a strategic standpoint because he knows nothing of management. Yes he could learn all he needs on the job but why waste time learning all the fundamentals of business later when you could be dealing with patients. I chose to do all that before, which is why I majored in Business, not English as you implied. In my case my UG major and choice to be an MD supplement each other in a way a science major would not. Everyone I talk to, at UNC and other schools, says that all the sciences in UG cannot prepare for the things you must learn throughout med school. In fact, my interviewers said, on multiple occasions, that they think non-science majors are more successful in medical school. I believe there is a rhyme and reason to it.
Yes, scientifically minded people are important for research and advancement but not all physicians gravitate toward those areas of medicine. I think with UNC its important to emphasize their primary care centered approach. With a school so concerned with public health initiatives, backgrounds which promote diversity are very important.
On the surface that all may seem hokey, but I think it important to emphasize that physicians are more than just scientists, especially in primary care. For example, a physician I know absolutly cannot run his business from a strategic standpoint because he knows nothing of management. Yes he could learn all he needs on the job but why waste time learning all the fundamentals of business later when you could be dealing with patients. I chose to do all that before, which is why I majored in Business, not English as you implied. In my case my UG major and choice to be an MD supplement each other in a way a science major would not. Everyone I talk to, at UNC and other schools, says that all the sciences in UG cannot prepare for the things you must learn throughout med school. In fact, my interviewers said, on multiple occasions, that they think non-science majors are more successful in medical school. I believe there is a rhyme and reason to it.
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sure, i know physicians-to-be need to know more than science. But, there are a lot of students who have majored in the sciences and did very well are well-rounded in terms of activities, and knowledge. What I am saying is that medical schools should not turn these kinds of students just based on the faulty presumption that students who have done very well in the sciences can't be well-rounded as a non-science major. Personally, I know (including myself - not trying to sound arrogant) a LOT of students who have done very well in the sciences and are well-rounded in terms of interests, and knowledge about disciplines other than sciences. Sure they got in but had to do improvisation because they (to put it the way you like it) sincerely majored in the sciences. To put it simply, medical schools cannot just turn down these students based on the presumptions you are talking about.
Btw, I understand the MD/MPH, and MD/PhD programs. However, I do not understand the need for doctors to be flirting around with business. You don't have to be a quantum physicist to figure out how to run a small clinic if you choose to do that. Especially if you are an asian like me. lol But, it doesn't take a lot of new knowledge to run your own clinic (there are accountants out there for tax reasons and what not). Anyways, doctors' main priority should be patients like you said and not making profits nor running businesses. This is one of the main problems in medicine. Not all doctors of course but it's the healthcare structure in america that forces doctors to be proficient in these aspects. Hospitals are sprouting up everywhere with fancy waiting rooms, death wards, etc. all in the name of profits, which seems to have taken a lot out of genuine medicine. Instead of preventing diseases and sharing knowledge about healthy lifestyle through so many means (which is like way cheaper!), the focus is on 'letting' people become diseased and then intervening with toxic drugs, which end up killing the patients so many times right in the hospital (when that person shouldn't even be there in the first place!!). Besides, business and medicine do NOT go hand in hand. The primary focus and the concept of business is to be practical in making profits. It doesn't matter if these profits come at the expense of lives (ie drug companies, couple of FDA regulations, etc.). Main goal is profits, always. I bet anything that it's one of the unifying concepts in business. In fact, business and medicine are contradictory to one another if you think about the basics of both fields.
All I am saying is that yes medical schools should accept maybe (10-20% of non-science major students but there are so many students who have done very well in the sciences, who are well-rounded in activities, interests, and knowledge. You just cannot assume that if someone is scientifically oriented then they only know about science. (btw, science and math are the most important disciplines that have been the force of change in humanity). Yes, it is good to have english, history, music majors in the mix. But, most of the students (~80%) I feel should be science majors, who are well-rounded in aspects I have mentioned many times. That's basically what I am saying. These students deserve more than the letter which sweetly says that you are just as qualified as any other but couldn't make the cut because you are a science major hence we don't think you are well-rounded. Again, the entire world does it differently.
I am not angry or whatever about the admissions process but I am against how decisions are made as are many many people. I just want to show the other side, which most people once in med school tend to forget about.
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im a science major?
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Medicine and Business DO go hand in hand because of our bad misconception in America that everything must be run like a business. I have not talked to one person in my interviews that thought business wouldn't help in medicine. That said, I am probably the only business major in America in favor of socialized medicine but I think there are many tools taught in my major that would be of great use in dealing with the difficulties that physicians deal with in terms of what needs to change in our system.
Now lets put this whole discussion into perspective, if you look at other schools for example, Wake Forest, who have maybe 10% non-science. Not all schools follow these trends. Back to UNC, i guarantee you that the 55% of science majors are well-rounded like you mentioned. When you're a public school devoted to serving all types of people in your state then you tend to accept people from all backgrounds.
Or from a practical standpoint, you see 500 science majors during the application/interview process and maybe 1,2, or 3 English, Business, or others who are equally qualified. I guarantee you that what they bring to an interview would differ greatly from the other students. Mind you that they are all qualified in terms of numbers as far as the sciences are concerned. So of the 500-800 people you see in a year's time those would tend to stand out as interesting and compelling. In examining whats less boring or more sexy to the admissions committee it makes sense. However you want to justify it UNC is one of the top 5 primary care and top 20 research schools so they must be doing something right (assuming the rankings mean anything which i'm sure we'll both agree on that).
Now lets put this whole discussion into perspective, if you look at other schools for example, Wake Forest, who have maybe 10% non-science. Not all schools follow these trends. Back to UNC, i guarantee you that the 55% of science majors are well-rounded like you mentioned. When you're a public school devoted to serving all types of people in your state then you tend to accept people from all backgrounds.
Or from a practical standpoint, you see 500 science majors during the application/interview process and maybe 1,2, or 3 English, Business, or others who are equally qualified. I guarantee you that what they bring to an interview would differ greatly from the other students. Mind you that they are all qualified in terms of numbers as far as the sciences are concerned. So of the 500-800 people you see in a year's time those would tend to stand out as interesting and compelling. In examining whats less boring or more sexy to the admissions committee it makes sense. However you want to justify it UNC is one of the top 5 primary care and top 20 research schools so they must be doing something right (assuming the rankings mean anything which i'm sure we'll both agree on that).
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okay. so you are telling me that business can help medicine? You see, the problem here is that I am not nor most people aren't disagreeing for the most part but this certainly just has not been the case. You don't have to look further than filthy rich insurance companies. Also, I can give you so so many examples of drugs that companies have marketed drugs (lots of these are design with really bad ideas - you should really get to know how some of these drugs are developed. it is an embarrassment really. basically developed to quickly gain profits) which have proved to be toxic from the start. But, it took for some drugs 2 freakin' years to take the drugs off the market even though so many people died. With 'shenanigans' like these, do you see why many people would find it very hard to believe that business can help medicine positively? If it can, I am sure it is limited. Why can't business be utilized so that people can be educated on prevention, changing lifestyles, exposing to "secrets" of living healthy through diet, mind-body exercises, getting rid of artificial garbage stuff in our foods? No, if this were the case how can you make money. Most people wouldn't need to see their doctors because they would not be freakin' sick all the time. There are so many large communities out there in the world who don't have nice easy access to doctors like we do and still outlive us by 20 years on average.
Also, I agree about public school stuff. I prefer public to private insitutions. But, why should non-science students be preffered when many science-majored students have done very well, well-rounded? And they are accepted at so many schools in large numbers too. Logically speaking, the ratio should skewed heavily (~80:20) in favor of students majoring in the sciences. It is basically a perfect combination. A student who has done well in the sciences, along with other subjects, and is well-rounded with people's skills, other activities, etc. It seems to complement medicine to me. (Science + Social interaction + outside interests). Also, I think AAMC stats would beg to differ with you on science students having the same GPA, MCAT (esp. the sciences section). Also, it is more difficult for science students (logically speaking) to maintain a certain GPA than non-science students at most highly respected institutions. So that has to be taken into account. This is why I think schools like UNC need to let in more students that I am talking about than accepting non-traditional/non-science students. I am really trying to look at it from both perspectives here but it just doesn't make sense logically for reasons I explained. I know there are only 160-170 spots. so there are bound to be people that get cut since they interview 500-600 people. But, I think accepting more science students who are well-rounded with very good stas need to be accepted more than they are being right now. It could only help medicine. I am not saying to not accept non-science students. the ratio should be like (80:20) at many schools who decide to accept many non-trad./non-science applicants.
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I never said business can help medicine. I said knowledge of business can help physicians, (the top healthcare providers) push to change healthcare for the better. It allows more tools for them to manipulate the nasty world of business to suit the needs of the patients and doctors.
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Okay people ... this flame war is really starting to get silly. People have been asserting things without really backing it up, as far as this humanities v. sciences major goes. So let's look at the numbers.
Full disclosure: I'm accepted, was an economics major, and have worked as an analyst at an economic development think tank for the past two years. I assume this makes me the type of med student to be that some people here abhor. But naturally, I'm fond of numbers 🙂
My data is coming from the AAMC (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpabymaj08.htm)
Some things that stand out: only 18 percent of the class of 2012 were non-science majors (SS and humanities).
Rejection rates for different majors are roughly the same (~55%).
MCAT scores are roughly the same, except that physical science majors and math majors do better on the PS section (go figure).
GPAs are roughly the same.
So what's my conclusion? At medical schools in general, there doesn't seem to be a bias against science majors -- they seem to be rejected at about the same rate as humanity majors. Judging by MCAT and GPA statistics, the accepted science and humanity majors are at a parity. And overall, non-science majors still remain low in the class of 2012, beneath 20%.
So, as Neil100 said, "Logically speaking, the ratio should skewed heavily (~80:20)" ...
Well, yeah. That's what it is.
And a personal, non-numbers related note -- the medical application process is long, frustrating, and ego-destroying. I don't really know what the admissions committees are looking for -- and you don't either. As someone pointed out earlier, whatever UNC is doing in terms of their medical student body, it seems to be working; the school has great rankings.
So let's not have silly arguments, and if we do, at least back up statements with facts instead of emotional assertions.
Full disclosure: I'm accepted, was an economics major, and have worked as an analyst at an economic development think tank for the past two years. I assume this makes me the type of med student to be that some people here abhor. But naturally, I'm fond of numbers 🙂
My data is coming from the AAMC (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpabymaj08.htm)
Some things that stand out: only 18 percent of the class of 2012 were non-science majors (SS and humanities).
Rejection rates for different majors are roughly the same (~55%).
MCAT scores are roughly the same, except that physical science majors and math majors do better on the PS section (go figure).
GPAs are roughly the same.
So what's my conclusion? At medical schools in general, there doesn't seem to be a bias against science majors -- they seem to be rejected at about the same rate as humanity majors. Judging by MCAT and GPA statistics, the accepted science and humanity majors are at a parity. And overall, non-science majors still remain low in the class of 2012, beneath 20%.
So, as Neil100 said, "Logically speaking, the ratio should skewed heavily (~80:20)" ...
Well, yeah. That's what it is.
And a personal, non-numbers related note -- the medical application process is long, frustrating, and ego-destroying. I don't really know what the admissions committees are looking for -- and you don't either. As someone pointed out earlier, whatever UNC is doing in terms of their medical student body, it seems to be working; the school has great rankings.
So let's not have silly arguments, and if we do, at least back up statements with facts instead of emotional assertions.
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I like this fervor for discussion, to a point....
...also, I'm sorry to jump in on this interesting my-#$%^-is-bigger-than-yours conversation so late but I'm intrigued at the numbers you stand behind and points you make in your argument. let's hope they are made with some sort of validity to make your point...maybe we can even get some clarification?
-can you name one country that has a life expectancy that is 20 years higher than the US?
-can you name three drugs that have been taken off the market in the past year that have been extremely toxic for humans, and somehow bypassed the rigorous (somewhat rigorous) testing required by the FDA?
-you prefer public schools? really? didn't you go to emory?
-why is 80:20 a good ratio?
"...But, I think accepting more science students who are well-rounded with very good stas need to be accepted more than they are being right now. It could only help medicine. I am not saying to not accept non-science students. the ratio should be like (80:20) at many schools who decide to accept many non-trad."
sounds like a contradiction, doesn't it? if you think med school should be for science majors exclusively, which you assert by saying they will ONLY help medicine, then why advocate for an 80:20 ratio? why not 100:0?
Just because I have a chemistry degree and can discuss thermodynamics and pchem at length with you or because I have a global health degree and can discuss obesity in rural Chinese adolescents with you doesn't qualify me to be a great physician. There is a general perception of wanting to do well in undergrad purely for the reason that better numbers get you into medical school. That completely takes away from the idea of learning and developing yourself into an academic and intellectual when you rely solely on numbers and majors for what you think you deserve. You don't develop into a compassionate human being with that mindset, which is what you need in order to be a great doctor who can motivate their patients to make improvements in their lives and promote healthier lifestyles. This is why interviews are so amazing and essential. You get a feel for the person. If you think you are so intelligent and deserving of a career that requires only scientists, because you aptly state that the science major is best suited, skip med school. Go pursue a PhD - develop an AIDS vaccine and save more than 2 million lives a years. You probably won't even see 2 million patients during the course of your career as a physician.
I don't feel like I'm in a position (nor you) to be telling med schools who they should accept, what combination would make the best incoming class and to whom they should say try again. Just put forth your best effort for the right reasons and hope you don't get the short straw! 🙂 (The process isn't COMPLETELY random at UNC btw, I think most people are just frustrated with the wait.)
Everyone still waiting for a seat is getting ancy, because not getting in put a big detour in your plans. Keep your chin up folks, every day isn't a sunny day but the sun does come out!
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Hi, I apologize in advance for going off topic. But is anyone here looking for housing? We are looking for a roommate for the upcoming school year. I put up a craigslist ad with details, which I'm linking below.
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/roo/1087488824.html
Congrats to those who are accepted and good luck to those still waiting!
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I wouldn't expect any this week, I *think* the med school is on spring break. I realize this doesn't mean that all the faculty leave, but my guess would be that there's a possibility admissions could go on hiatus for a week.
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...woohoo! I love waiting.
I should have disclosed above that I am still waiting on UNC, and this week I've officially hit the 8 week mark - much less of a wait than some of you I know!
good job fact finding spacecaesar!
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This board is ridiculous with all its ranting and raving. I'm more interested about discovering when the adcom meets.
Even though the med school is on Spring Break, I don't think that means the Adcom will stop meeting. I doubt professors go to the Dominican Republic to party like students.
Even though the med school is on Spring Break, I don't think that means the Adcom will stop meeting. I doubt professors go to the Dominican Republic to party like students.
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Neil,
I don't think one can argue that if you are going to run your own practice (or even small group practice) it is imperative that you either a)pay an office manager a significant amount of money to run the practice, or b)have a pretty solid foundation of running a business. I'm not sure if you know, but most primary care docs don't make enough money to pay someone $30,000-50,000/yr (or more) to run the business end of their practice and very few have a whole lot of extra time to be learning business as they go.
If I could do one thing over in UG, it wouldn't be "study more" (even though that couldn't have hurted since I graduated with a 2.9 BCPM GPA) I would major in business (or public health). I enjoyed my major (American Studies/History) but I think I would have been much better off in the long run. Fortunately, I have a pretty good business sense but A LOT of people don't.
The thing that I took away from talking to half a dozen physicians and PhDs on admissions committees is that science majors are a dime-a-dozen. You have to realize that your 3.8 (or whatever) is matched by hundreds of other students who majored in the exact same subject and did equally well, if not better. Someone who majors in a non-science field and still does well in school AND well on the MCAT goes to show that they can do that without devoting all of their time to it. Don't get all fussy-I'm not in any way saying those people are smarter, just that there are far fewer and may seem more "unique" - especially to a school like UNC.
I know a lot of you are waiting to hear - sorry to be off topic again. Good luck and I hope that everyone gets a call tonight!
I don't think one can argue that if you are going to run your own practice (or even small group practice) it is imperative that you either a)pay an office manager a significant amount of money to run the practice, or b)have a pretty solid foundation of running a business. I'm not sure if you know, but most primary care docs don't make enough money to pay someone $30,000-50,000/yr (or more) to run the business end of their practice and very few have a whole lot of extra time to be learning business as they go.
If I could do one thing over in UG, it wouldn't be "study more" (even though that couldn't have hurted since I graduated with a 2.9 BCPM GPA) I would major in business (or public health). I enjoyed my major (American Studies/History) but I think I would have been much better off in the long run. Fortunately, I have a pretty good business sense but A LOT of people don't.
The thing that I took away from talking to half a dozen physicians and PhDs on admissions committees is that science majors are a dime-a-dozen. You have to realize that your 3.8 (or whatever) is matched by hundreds of other students who majored in the exact same subject and did equally well, if not better. Someone who majors in a non-science field and still does well in school AND well on the MCAT goes to show that they can do that without devoting all of their time to it. Don't get all fussy-I'm not in any way saying those people are smarter, just that there are far fewer and may seem more "unique" - especially to a school like UNC.
I know a lot of you are waiting to hear - sorry to be off topic again. Good luck and I hope that everyone gets a call tonight!
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I just checked the schedule on the UNC MD Program calendar, and the med school is on spring break. I honestly have no idea what that means for the adcom, but this is what I've found:
http://www.med.unc.edu/www/educatio...es/MS1 08-09 Color Calendar Draft 3-28-08.pdf
Hope this helps! Here's to hoping we get some calls tonight!
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That's some really strong work! Well done.
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Neil100- your bombastic, inflammatory ideations are just so stunningly far from reality and I can't tell if you are serious or if you are just trying to inflame people. I can't believe I am responding to this argument and furthering this very negative turn in the thread, but I can never resist offering my perspective. So, respectfully, I offer these viewpoints.
My father has his own practice, and I can tell you, the business aspect of Medicine is HUGE if you are in private practice. You have to run a small business, manage several employees and their egos, contain overhead, pay the bills, make sure you get paid, and maintain relations with other doctors who provide you with crucial referrals. It's a lot of work-- much more than people realize. My dad always says seeing a patient is the easy part. And it's the business side of things and interpersonal skills that more determine the success of a doctor in the real world than his or her brilliance, as much as I disagree with that. It was recently printed in Time Magazine that since the advent of medicare, primary care physicians spend more time dealing with the business aspects of their practice than actually seeing patients. (And also that 75% of PCP's would pick another career given the opportunity- but that's a whole different argument)
The head of Plastic Surgery at Duke University graduated from a Caribbean medical school after he got rejected from all the stateside schools. But he is a very personable guy and has gone far despite this initial setback. Another doctor from my hometown is a Ivy league cardiologist. He graduated from Harvard Medical School, and is, by his own acclaim, brilliant. Yet, he is declaring bankruptcy this year after he chased all his patients and partners away. This is a telling example of medicine in the real world. Intelligence alone does not, and will not make you successful in this field.
As for pharmaceutical companies, since I kinda took offense to your misguided comments on them, I can personally attest to the tireless work that goes into making sure that a drug is safe before it goes to the market. The problem again goes back to expectations and accountability in the U.S. If you want a company to spend millions and millions on safety studies (which they do) and you don't want to pay a lot for your non- generic drug- well that's simply not going to work. I work for a major pharmaceutical company doing research for drug development. I will spare you details, but every single step I do must be independently verified, validated, and according to FDA, GLP and GMP policy and it is exhaustive. Suffice it to say, you are just plain wrong from someone in the industry.
Like someone here said, applying to medical school can be really destructive to ones ego. Most everyone who applies has the same application as me or you or most other people give or take a point here or there or an experience here or there. A crucial element is connecting on a personal level with your interviewer, because this is the crucial element that makes a good doctor. If you didn't do this in your interview, I wouldn't hold your breath for a phone call.
My father has his own practice, and I can tell you, the business aspect of Medicine is HUGE if you are in private practice. You have to run a small business, manage several employees and their egos, contain overhead, pay the bills, make sure you get paid, and maintain relations with other doctors who provide you with crucial referrals. It's a lot of work-- much more than people realize. My dad always says seeing a patient is the easy part. And it's the business side of things and interpersonal skills that more determine the success of a doctor in the real world than his or her brilliance, as much as I disagree with that. It was recently printed in Time Magazine that since the advent of medicare, primary care physicians spend more time dealing with the business aspects of their practice than actually seeing patients. (And also that 75% of PCP's would pick another career given the opportunity- but that's a whole different argument)
The head of Plastic Surgery at Duke University graduated from a Caribbean medical school after he got rejected from all the stateside schools. But he is a very personable guy and has gone far despite this initial setback. Another doctor from my hometown is a Ivy league cardiologist. He graduated from Harvard Medical School, and is, by his own acclaim, brilliant. Yet, he is declaring bankruptcy this year after he chased all his patients and partners away. This is a telling example of medicine in the real world. Intelligence alone does not, and will not make you successful in this field.
As for pharmaceutical companies, since I kinda took offense to your misguided comments on them, I can personally attest to the tireless work that goes into making sure that a drug is safe before it goes to the market. The problem again goes back to expectations and accountability in the U.S. If you want a company to spend millions and millions on safety studies (which they do) and you don't want to pay a lot for your non- generic drug- well that's simply not going to work. I work for a major pharmaceutical company doing research for drug development. I will spare you details, but every single step I do must be independently verified, validated, and according to FDA, GLP and GMP policy and it is exhaustive. Suffice it to say, you are just plain wrong from someone in the industry.
Like someone here said, applying to medical school can be really destructive to ones ego. Most everyone who applies has the same application as me or you or most other people give or take a point here or there or an experience here or there. A crucial element is connecting on a personal level with your interviewer, because this is the crucial element that makes a good doctor. If you didn't do this in your interview, I wouldn't hold your breath for a phone call.
Well MS2s had their spring break last week ( http://www.med.unc.edu/md/secondyear/calendars/MS2AbbrevCal08-09.pdf ).. doubt committee won't meet b/c MS1's are off this week. Then again, I'm just hoping we all get the call that we've been waiting fervently for past many months.
Good luck to us all 🙂
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We are totally hijacking this thread!
I just wanted to add that pharma companies do spend lots of money on drug development, which is of course necessary. Many of these companies do, though, selectively report information from studies that favors their drug. These companies do spend insane amount of money trying to influence physician prescribing habits.
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Stop the madness!!!! None of this bickering will change anything....
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Everyone is so anxious, this sort of whining was bound to happen. This board has been pretty civil up to this point. Long philosophical debates should take place between PMs if you ask me.
I'm not going to read all the muck.
I'm not going to read all the muck.
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Yes can we please return to baseless speculation and the dissection of hearsay regarding the UNC ADCOM?
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You do realise sir the process of developing drugs. Many of them used to be by trial-and-error before molecular bio and advancements in biochem came along. Some of them still are. Drug companies all too often change a side group, add a benzene ring, aromatize, utilize other organic chemistry manipulations that have known to work in the past to develop drugs. It is mimicking nature in the hope of trying to trick nature. You will always get slapped down if you mess with nature. Take a look at development of antibiotics. Drug companies always has to stay one step ahead or try to in ridding bugs since these some of thse bugs have become super resistant (MRSA, VRSA, TB resistance, etc. ) Things are changing a little with advancements in imaging, x-ray crystallography (thanks to physicists) so that better approaches are taken in designing therapeurtic agents. But most of them, sorry to burst your bubble, are still developed in the same fashion. HAven't you been listening to the news about recalls, pulling off drugs from market after so much chaos???? Drug comapnies can certainly supplement scientific research at the university level but it surely seems from what's happening in reality that they care more about developing drugs quickly to make profits more than to actually do some real science work okay. So many people would back me up on this. I am not saying this because of emotions, I make judgements based on reality, logic and reason. You know what the reality is about drug companies. I am not saying they are 100% guilty but they sure can do a lot lot better!!!!
ok now even i think this is getting ridiculous. i started talking about lucrative business in medicine (yes) because someone by the username clp brought it up okay. i didn't want to open up another can of worms.
dude i could care less about my ego. I am not one of those people who thinks they are all that. I am very realistic about who I am.
I am saying this again and again. You can't judge people from what they say on anonymous forums. geezz!!!! You have absolutely no clue what I said in my interviews. I am just sticking to one topic which is admissions! stop getting off on tangents.
...also, I'm sorry to jump in on this interesting my-#$%^-is-bigger-than-yours conversation so late but I'm intrigued at the numbers you stand behind and points you make in your argument. let's hope they are made with some sort of validity to make your point...maybe we can even get some clarification?
No one is talking about someone else's conversation being bigger and better. Trying to have productive arguments here since there are differing opinions. geez!
-can you name one country that has a life expectancy that is 20 years higher than the US?
Read my post again. I said communities not countries. There is a big difference. Countries can have many communities. Okinawans, a community in japan. (more people over 100 years old per 100,000 population than if I remember correctly). hunza tribe in pakistan, south american tribes, tribes in caucusus moutains any many more with extremely high life expectancies on average. (>83). I am sure there are more but don't want to waste my time.
-can you name three drugs that have been taken off the market in the past year that have been extremely toxic for humans, and somehow bypassed the rigorous (somewhat rigorous) testing required by the FDA?
let's start with the drugs first. vioxx, Avandia (i just checked 80,000 died directly from the drug), dangerous cancer drugs that weaken the entire body (cachexia), esp. the immune system and die right their in the hospital (since hospital is such a perfect breeding ground for resistant strains of bugs), cipro-like antibiotics, quinolones (for so so many tendon ruptures), and can go on on with deaths directly caused by these toxic man-made (some nature mimcking with modifications made in side chains, groups, etc.) drugs. I am not saying there is no need for drugs but there certainly are drugs that should be allowed for use in humans. Drugs are for emergencies mostly. I am sure many would agree that americans enjoy (romanticize) about taking drugs. Consideration of toxic side effects are thrown out the window. there are cures out there (I am some real ones which the FDA does not want you to know about). Besides remember one thing, Medicine has advanced mainly because of basic science research at the university level. It has nothing to do with pfizer nor any other drug cartels. I hope you agree to this otherwise you are just as guilty of taking lives as some of these companies that have knowingly saw developed drugs for money and could care less about therapuetics. So many sincere and honest hard working people would agree with me on this. Of course not saying that you aren't honest or anything. By the way, I could really lenghten this list by so much if I wanted to. But it is a waste of time there is so much factual knowledge out there about this.
-you prefer public schools? really? didn't you go to emory?
yes. you don't know why I went to emory. it was for reasons other than choosing it because it's a private school. geez. again can't judge people on anonymous forums!!!!
-why is 80:20 a good ratio?
"...But, I think accepting more science students who are well-rounded with very good stas need to be accepted more than they are being right now. It could only help medicine. I am not saying to not accept non-science students. the ratio should be like (80:20) at many schools who decide to accept many non-trad."
sounds like a contradiction, doesn't it? if you think med school should be for science majors exclusively, which you assert by saying they will ONLY help medicine, then why advocate for an 80:20 ratio? why not 100:0?
Just because I have a chemistry degree and can discuss thermodynamics and pchem at length with you or because I have a global health degree and can discuss obesity in rural Chinese adolescents with you doesn't qualify me to be a great physician. There is a general perception of wanting to do well in undergrad purely for the reason that better numbers get you into medical school. That completely takes away from the idea of learning and developing yourself into an academic and intellectual when you rely solely on numbers and majors for what you think you deserve. You don't develop into a compassionate human being with that mindset, which is what you need in order to be a great doctor who can motivate their patients to make improvements in their lives and promote healthier lifestyles. This is why interviews are so amazing and essential. You get a feel for the person. If you think you are so intelligent and deserving of a career that requires only scientists, because you aptly state that the science major is best suited, skip med school. Go pursue a PhD - develop an AIDS vaccine and save more than 2 million lives a years. You probably won't even see 2 million patients during the course of your career as a physician.
I don't feel like I'm in a position (nor you) to be telling med schools who they should accept, what combination would make the best incoming class and to whom they should say try again. Just put forth your best effort for the right reasons and hope you don't get the short straw! <img title="Smilie" alt="" border="0"> (The process isn't COMPLETELY random at UNC btw, I think most people are just frustrated with the wait.)
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I have given this some though about purusing a PhD. But, I want to be balanced. I know I am just starting in medicine but I feel that being acquainted with both sides will help me enrich my experience of medicine. I am surely planning on pursuing PhD after getting my MD do the residency and go for it.
The reason I said 80:20 crudely was that non-trad./non-science majors have done as doctors. I never said medicine is exclusively for science majors. What I did say though is that medicine should include much more science majors than it does currently. Science majors do not have to go the extra mile in giving proof of being well-rounded. So it isn't contradictory you see.
I have been accepted so I am really not frustrated at all. But, I just think changes can be made to this inefficient process in certain ways. It will be better for future students applying to med schools.
Again the almost the entire world does it differently and they produce some of the best physicians also. Science majors should be rewarded for their keen interest, doing well, and should not have to be forced to take a year off just so that they can prove themselves to be the 'right stuff' for medicine. How can you not see this???? It makes sense logically.
phew.
And yes let's get back to the hearsay kind of stuff from UNC ADCOM. everyone who wanted to say something has had their say.
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neil100 is immature and incredibly annoying. can we please do something about it? he is negatively contributing to this thread and his incredibly long posts are poorly written, and quite frankly, a waste of time to read.
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Yeah you can not read his posts.
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Good. most of the posts on here are poorly written. it's an informal forum. But, okay I said I am stopping because it won't change anything. It has basically shown that facing the truth, no matter how little, hurts.
I'll bring the positivity since I started the whole discussion and got uncivil.
++++++++++🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂 I have always been a believer in positive thinking.
I hope you get the call tonight before I do. Hopefully.
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I would like to second this! Please continue your personal debates via PM and keep this thread civil and geared toward application process information.
Thanks so much!
I just called the school and Jonie said we should all hear something by the end of the month! So I'm thinking that means they are meeting tonight and next monday night if they are really hoping to get through all the applicants. I interviewed in late February and she said I should still hear by the end of the month. Good luck!! Please post if you get a call so we can all know!! 🙂
I hope so. Didn't someone say the sub-comm met last week?
I'm still skeptical about anyone getting calls (it could happen, I have no proof otherwise) mainly because they said decisions would be mailed out on March 31st. But I hope there are calls... it would make my Monday.
Yeah scratch that so I made my boyfriend call and ask if the committee was meeting tonight and they said no... so does that mean all the decisions have been made and they just need to make calls?? ARGH this is so annoying!
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At this point everything is all conjecture and guesses. I believe there are spots available. Best thing to do is remain positive. Not everyone who is offered an acceptance attends UNC.
I assume they have some kind of plan to get everything done. Remember that they have a new dean of admissions, so they may be doing things differently than any other year. Who knows...
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Keep those sentiments about business and medicine. When reality smacks you dead in the face you will realize that there is some merit to what we have been saying here. Also about diversity, in addition to schools like UNC, I commend DO schools for their foresight in generally picking fewer science majors. Their percentages are much higher for non-trads/non-science. Just trying to add some wood to the fire here.
P.S. the madness cannot stop it is TOURNAMENT TIME BABY!
P.S. the madness cannot stop it is TOURNAMENT TIME BABY!
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Hey guys!
I just wanted to tell everyone to hang in there. UNC is a great school, but is really bad about making people wait. Last year, I didn't find out that I had gotten in until 4 months after my interview. That said, I know that it doesn't make the waiting any easier.
As far as the committee, I am not sure when they meet next, but I do know that while we (MS1s) are on spring break, the MS2s are back in class, so, things on campus haven't shut down.
I wish you all the best of luck and hope to have some of you as classmates next year! In the meantime, if you all have any non-admissions related questions, I'd be happy to help you all out in any way I can :0)
I just wanted to tell everyone to hang in there. UNC is a great school, but is really bad about making people wait. Last year, I didn't find out that I had gotten in until 4 months after my interview. That said, I know that it doesn't make the waiting any easier.
As far as the committee, I am not sure when they meet next, but I do know that while we (MS1s) are on spring break, the MS2s are back in class, so, things on campus haven't shut down.
I wish you all the best of luck and hope to have some of you as classmates next year! In the meantime, if you all have any non-admissions related questions, I'd be happy to help you all out in any way I can :0)
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ugh pathetic
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Yeah. That's how it goes I suppose. Either way, I'll hope for the best. Waiting blows.
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Nice Nice. I bow down to thee, sage of the purely unregulated free market society.
I'll keep those facts about business to myself and share it with normal decent human beings.
I guess only time will tell. Let's see how different countries of the world handle this economic disaster, which was started by the greedy white collar criminals in the US private banks mind you. No surprise there buddy.
I hope you do realize there is some truth to what I am said also. But, let's be positive and friendly. Besides, we will both be in the same profession that expects us to behave like professionals.
keep the speculations coming.
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I would imagine early this summer sometime. I went to UNC for undergrad so I already had a PID/Onyen, but you'll need those to fill out your forms, see your finaid award, and order your laptop, among other things. A lot of that stuff is due late June/early July, so you'll have to have it by then.
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