2009-2010 Case Western Reserve University Application Thread

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did anybody here interview with Dr. Haynie? he's so cool. I'm excited that I'd be in the Robbins Society.

and Myuu, what society are you in?

Wearn%20Designwebsite.jpg
 
Ah, so not Robbins/Gryffindor 😉

What are the societies' colors? As in, which is Ravenclaw, which is Hufflepuff, and which is Slytherin?
 
did anybody here interview with Dr. Haynie? he's so cool. I'm excited that I'd be in the Robbins Society.

and Myuu, what society are you in?

Haynie was the man, but I didn't have the opportunity to interview with him. Btw, the adcomm is meeting next Monday for those of you post-interview who've yet to hear back. :xf:
 
Preamble:
It is high time to talk some truth about the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine. This doesn’t mean airing dirty laundry, rather it means undoing the damage that CCLCMer and his ilk do day in and day out when they use SDN to propagandize for the our medical school. I think that the whole point of SDN, from the interview sections to the blog posts are so that we would have a place to go for balanced views. I know that this post is going to inflame some of the CCLMer style posters and get them frothing, ready to jump the defense of CCLCM to the point of absurdity. But if they sit back for a minute and actually think about what I am saying as opposed to how the post will reflect on their capabilities to land residencies, then I think that we may be getting somewhere on making the school better. However, my prediction is that these folks are going to be true to their past behavior and either attempt to get the post removed or answer the criticisms with their typical credo: “we never said that CCLCM if for everyone!” Sorry folks, that cop-out doesn’t work here. Also, the world beyond CCLCM is subject to the laws of speaking freely and you cannot be “remediated” by Franco and the MSPRC for that {will explain this more in depth later}. The issues I will discuss are to make a point that some elements of the CCLCM curriculum are for NO ONE and NO ONE should be ever be exposed to these elements. Finally, I will high light beneficial aspects of the curriculum and school. I will address the 4 most important aspects of the training including clinical teaching, research, preparation for exams, the portfolio, and the general environment. This is going to be long so I will break it up and do it over a few days or so. Bear with me.

Conflict of interest statement:
I am a CCLCM student a few years into the system who feels that our administration and the trajectory of the school is going in a somewhat scary direction. I will also attempt to preempt CCLCMer and ilks criticisms.

Discussions about Research:

Positive Point 1:
There is an arsenal of research opportunity available at the Cleveland Clinic. If you are driven enough and you know how to approach PIs and you also are able to imbed yourself in a lab, you can benefit tremendously from the efficiency and money that the Clinic throws into their research facilities. Thus far, I personally cannot complain about access to PIs because I am a very forward person and know how to put myself out there. I also spend a lot of time in the lab pushing my project and my PI has agreed to fund me and/or help me write for a grant. I have some manuscripts that I am writing up. I am thankful to my PI for these opportunities.

Negative Point 1:
Despite these amazing resources, it is the research curriculum devised by the medical school that does the most damage to a student’s capability to succeed and produce. In the first two years you are expected to produce mock grants. These grants are typically cumbersome and the scrutinies that these mock grants undergo as compared to a PhD program mock grant border on ridiculous. *Remember, CCLCMer will respond to this by saying that this is what makes us better than a typical PhD or MD PhD program and that these amazing scientists scrutinize our mock grants which is a once in a lifetime access line. Be smart, don’t buy into his commentary. What he fails to understand is that the system itself is asymmetric, nonobjective, and treats students differently. Some PIs will provide extensive scrutiny of grants and others will shelve the document. This is an issue because the latter folks then are able to utilize the time not spent on cleaning up a mock grant to actually forge connections in their lab or other labs and put themselves on trajectories to working out a good thesis. I was lucky, my PI didn’t care at all about the mock grant and this gave me the chance to throw some smattering of words together into a few pages and then focus the rest of my time on producing and preparing myself to apply for actual funding from organizations like Doris Duke or HHMI. Unfortunately, my close colleague had these “amazing PIs” that CCLCMer will gush about, scrutinizing his mock grant. He had to do 3 revisions and got nothing done over the summer 1 time period. Finally, the amazing PIs are NOT the ones scrutinizing the mock grant. It is often times members of our research committee who have some accolades, but by no means are they the Clinic’s leading PIs. They do not understand the actual constraints of our time and go into this lock down mode pretending that they are criticizing an R01k application.

Unfortunately, one student who was a 4th year actually had to revise his year 1 (summer 1 mind you) mock grant because someone on the research committee had nothing better to do and decided he would teach this student a lesson in fulfilling obligations after somehow deciding to peep into his research portfolio.

Negative Point 2:
The thesis demands that the committee has in place are hardline to the point of foolishness. One of the class of 2009 had a Heme Onc focused project. One of his committee members moved to California. Towards the end of his thesis work, he offered a rearrangement of his committee with an expert in the field to sit in that investigator’s place. The research committee refused to accept this change and even threatened to flunk him on his thesis. This is absurd. Once again, CCLCM doesn’t know whether it wants to combine a PhD approach with an MD or whether it is “new and unique.” If it is the former, then by all means keep the requirements as stringent as they ought to be [ though most of my colleagues in MD PhD programs or straight up PhD programs told me that they have much more leeway than this particular student’s situation!]. However, they claim the latter, in which case they need to get a grip on reality and understand the constraints on medical students in a 5 year program.

Negative Point 3:
The summer 1 and 2 curriculums are horrible at imparting actual working knowledge either on paper or in real lab settings for applied molecular biology or statistics. There were many people in my class who had no concept of what a p value was or for that matter what confidence intervals meant. An equal number of people had never even run an electrophoresis or PCR before. A 3 month long endeavor in biochem or epidemiology and statistics should definitely be better planned and make more sense so these basics are there for each student. *CCLCMer will respond that the requirements are that we have taken biochem prior to admission. It’s an absurd response because college biochem/molecular bio covers completely clinically irrelevant material in relation to what med school biochem usually imparts.

These sessions involved taking New England Journal Articles and trying to reproduce their p values and other statistics without even educating folks on the basics of medical research and what these instruments and measures actually meant! At the end of the day, neither summer 1 or summer 2 provide a basic safety net of objectives that each student should know for practical research endeavors or for the USMLE Step 1. Their claim generally is that the Summer 1 biochem/molecular bio stuff will be dispersed into the remainder of the curriculum in an organ systems fashion. This is hardly the case and as one approaches the board, they will find that that miniscule information about lipid rafts are not on the USMLE and the fact that you had to have a whole PBL session about them and read about them was a foolish way to waste a week.

Instead of actually reading basic concepts in medical biochem you are given Devlin’s book as if a years worth of intense biochem that is not medically focused can be learned in 8-10 weeks. All the while, your primary reading are sets of journal articles. In the end, it all ends up being a big waste unless you are clever enough to preempt and game the system by doing their work just enough to get by and studying what was important on your own.

Discussions about Clinical Care:

Positive Point 1:
You have 4 major teaching hospitals at your disposal to rotate through. You can organize your team during research and other junctures to get clinical exposure at your own pace and actually learn medicine as opposed to being a scut monkey. However, since being a scut monkey is a large part of being a resident physician, you can also learn that stuff in certain scenarios. This is all if you have figured the system out early on.

Negative Point 1:
The CCLCM crew tends to rotate through CCLCM itself and manipulate the system so as to ensure that their Dean’s letters are formidable magnum opuses. This is done through a log system where the faculty are basically prodded to write lengthy and unusually positive assessments of the students that very often times are inflated. The administration knows this and instead of correcting for it has pandered to it, asking their students to remain within the confines of the Clinic so that their portfolios can be buttressed.

A number of the other centers remain in the classical mode and expect actual work as opposed to functioning like observer-ships. This means that the CCLCM crew can usually be seen at the hospital starbucks or au bon pain gossiping about who got drunk where and when. Many of them hit up the lounge in the afternoon and watch tons of TV. Often times they skimp on writing admissions notes or daily progress notes that most other 3rd and fourth years are writing across the country and rely on presentations alone or finding some obscure research article and distributing it to the team.

CCLCMer at this juncture will interject about the amazing surgery rotation and how hard our colleagues work. Certainly, there are some neat things that you can learn on that rotation and if you are lucky you can get through the whole book Diagnosing the Acute Abdomen. However, remember, a part of surgery/medicine is scut, and scut makes the world go round. When we get to residency, knowledge base alone is not going to save us. Its also about knowing that you have to talk with social work, dial some numbers to get info, and do some grunt work as a future resident. You won’t get that experience at your Cleveland Clinic rotation.

In fact, that it is a fellows dominated system remains one the major criticisms of doing a general medicine or surgery residency at the Cleveland Clinic. This has trickled down to the medical student level.

Positive point 1 becomes negated in some senses because if you rotate at Metro your “feedback” through the filing of logs will not be as inflated as it is at the Cleveland Clinic. As a result, you end up rotating through the Clinic because otherwise, your Dean’s letter will not reflect your actual work ethic.

Once again, the general retort that the Lerner kids will make is that they work extremely hard and that they read a ton. They have yet to figure out that a large part of clinical training has naught to with reading and much to do with clinical plans and implementing them on the wards. However, come to CCLCM and go on the rounds in medicine, the MICU, or the CCU. Additionally, go on the surgical rounds and come see how much more of an observer-ship it is than a medical school rotation.

- More to come tomorrow!
 
TG, thank you for your input!

However, please use spell checker and have someone else read your diatribes for grammar before posting?

As someone who is trying to understand you, someone truly interested in your opinions, I would like to know a little more about your background. Why did you choose CCLCM? Are you attempting an MS as well? I'm not quite sure which year you are in, or would this give you away, divulge too much?

Furthermore, what is your intent with this post? If it is to caution people from attending without understanding the ramifications, I think you will find others who periodically chime in have similar intentions. If it is to attack CCLCMer or Myuu or others, I'm not sure this is the correct venue?

However, clarification of your post is in order. First impressions, my friend.

P.S. CCLCMer is not a dude. FYI. Gotta go.
 
A few things:

  1. We are not brainless propaganda machines.
  2. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.
  3. Opinions are inherently biased.
  4. It is possible to proffer your own opinion, as a professional in training, in a public forum without being condescending, insulting, or generally hostile.
 
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To be fair, most of what the Case and CCLCM posters do is answer questions about the admissions process, talk about eggplant, and engage in general nerdery...all of which I appreciate, particularly the nerdery.
 
To be fair, most of what the Case and CCLCM posters do is answer questions about the admissions process, talk about eggplant, and engage in general nerdery...all of which I appreciate, particularly the nerdery.

What about nerdish eggplants?
betty-crocker-eggplant.jpg
 
Myuu, Iceman, et. al.

My wife and I are planning little mini trips (3 day weekends) down to places I've been accepted to. Is there a particular event/weekend that would be a particularly good weekend to come to Cleveland? Beyond social events, do you think the admissions office would mind if I stopped by and peeked into a lecture or two? The day I interviewed, there were no lectures/or I was in my interview at the time of lectures?

Although, my wife is now telling me that maybe we should see it on an ordinary week/weekend?


Any bit of advice?

Thanks!
 
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Myuu, Iceman, et. al.

My wife and I are planning little mini trips (3 day weekends) down to places I've been accepted to. Is there a particular event/weekend that would be a particularly good weekend to come to Cleveland? Beyond social events, do you think the admissions office would mind if I stopped by and peeked into a lecture or two? The day I interviewed, there were no lectures/or I was in my interview at the time of lectures?

Although, my wife is now telling me that maybe we should see it on an ordinary week/weekend?


Any bit of advice?

Thanks!

Well, if you're free in December (who is?!), you could come and see Doc Opera on the 5th. Otherwise, I have nooooo idea as I've only been here since July.😳
 
Well, if you're free in December (who is?!), you could come and see Doc Opera on the 5th. Otherwise, I have nooooo idea as I've only been here since July.😳


Well, after more talk with the Better Half, maybe fun weekend things in December around the holidays in the town proper, but a normal, business-as-usual Friday or Monday on campus would be best.

Also, do you think I could call ahead to the office and ask permission to peek into a class or two?

And....when do you guys have time off around the end of the year? The point is to be there when you guys are, right? 🙂

Also, any other prospective couples wanna trek out there the same weekend? It might be fun!
 
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TG, thank you for your input!

However, please use spell checker and have someone else read your diatribes for grammar before posting?

As someone who is trying to understand you, someone truly interested in your opinions, I would like to know a little more about your background. Why did you choose CCLCM? Are you attempting an MS as well? I'm not quite sure which year you are in, or would this give you away, divulge too much?

Way to stay professional lol. School boy tactics.
 
In order to get this thread even longer, I thought I would derail this thread by posting yesterday's dinner. It's green curry with chicken, onions, red peppers, green peppers, peanuts, and obviously, eggplant. 😀
You get a place of honor at the eggplant potluck. Yum!

did anybody here interview with Dr. Haynie? he's so cool. I'm excited that I'd be in the Robbins Society.
Dr. Haynie is awesome. 👍

Preamble:
It is high time to talk some truth about the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine. This doesn’t mean airing dirty laundry, rather it means undoing the damage that CCLCMer and his ilk do day in and day out when they use SDN to propagandize for the our medical school. I think that the whole point of SDN, from the interview sections to the blog posts are so that we would have a place to go for balanced views. I know that this post is going to inflame some of the CCLMer style posters and get them frothing, ready to jump the defense of CCLCM to the point of absurdity. But if they sit back for a minute and actually think about what I am saying as opposed to how the post will reflect on their capabilities to land residencies, then I think that we may be getting somewhere on making the school better. However, my prediction is that these folks are going to be true to their past behavior and either attempt to get the post removed or answer the criticisms with their typical credo: “we never said that CCLCM if for everyone!” Sorry folks, that cop-out doesn’t work here. Also, the world beyond CCLCM is subject to the laws of speaking freely and you cannot be “remediated” by Franco and the MSPRC for that {will explain this more in depth later}. The issues I will discuss are to make a point that some elements of the CCLCM curriculum are for NO ONE and NO ONE should be ever be exposed to these elements. Finally, I will high light beneficial aspects of the curriculum and school. I will address the 4 most important aspects of the training including clinical teaching, research, preparation for exams, the portfolio, and the general environment. This is going to be long so I will break it up and do it over a few days or so. Bear with me.
You are entitled to express your opinions about our school just as I am entitled to express mine. Feel free to speak The Truth as you see it. However, please at least be fair enough to acknowledge that whatever beef you have with the school is not my fault. I would therefore appreciate it if you would not put words into my mouth or make airing your grievances personal about me. I suggest that you take your concerns to Dean Franco or to someone in the administration who can actually do something about them.

vc7777 said:
My wife and I are planning little mini trips (3 day weekends) down to places I've been accepted to. Is there a particular event/weekend that would be a particularly good weekend to come to Cleveland? Beyond social events, do you think the admissions office would mind if I stopped by and peeked into a lecture or two? The day I interviewed, there were no lectures/or I was in my interview at the time of lectures?
I concur that you should come for Doc Opera. It used to be held in March on the same weekend as Second Look, but unfortunately they had to move it up when they shortened the UP's second year schedule by one block. My class was the last one that got to go to Doc Opera during second look. 😳
 
Well, I have no interest in Case, but wanted to interject my one thought upon reading the above diatribe against the school:

You can't argue for other people and pretend you know what they would say, even if you really might.

Just not cool.

Entitled to your opinion? Yes.

Entitled to another person's opinion? No.

This is a horrible way to begin your professional career working with people.

Carry on all.
 
I concur that you should come for Doc Opera. It used to be held in March on the same weekend as Second Look, but unfortunately they had to move it up when they shortened the UP's second year schedule by one block. My class was the last one that got to go to Doc Opera during second look. 😳

*ignoring ensuing drama*

Do we know when the Second Look will be yet? March-ish?
 
Way to stay professional lol. School boy tactics.

OH! It occurred to me looking back that you may have been making reference to the vague 'please keep it professional' post about 'nothing' way back when that you guys missed before it was obliterated!

Yeah, I was afraid that it look like I might have been involved in that...Myuu help me out here! Help me clear my (somewhat) good name!? 😳

...or leave me out to dry!:meanie:
 
OH! It occurred to me looking back that you may have been making reference to the vague 'please keep it professional' post about 'nothing' way back when that you guys missed before it was obliterated!

Yeah, I was afraid that it look like I might have been involved in that...Myuu help me out here! Help me clear my (somewhat) good name!? 😳

...or leave me out to dry!:meanie:

Why, no, kind sir. You were not involved in that which has been stricken from the timeline and will not be discussed further.
 
Do we know when the Second Look will be yet? March-ish?
Yes, it will be in March. It's a lot of fun, and I hope you can come. Both programs hold back-to-back second looks, so if you are accepted to both, you can spend one long weekend here. You will be getting info from the school about second look soon....but don't ask me how soon. :laugh:
 
Yes, it will be in March. It's a lot of fun, and I hope you can come. Both programs hold back-to-back second looks, so if you are accepted to both, you can spend one long weekend here. You will be getting info from the school about second look soon....but don't ask me how soon. :laugh:

Awesome. I'll be there. I only applied to UP, so no extended weekend for me! But hopefully you CCLCMers will drop by.
 
Yes, it will be in March. It's a lot of fun, and I hope you can come. Both programs hold back-to-back second looks, so if you are accepted to both, you can spend one long weekend here. You will be getting info from the school about second look soon....but don't ask me how soon. :laugh:

Regarding the first wave of CCLCM decisions, does "late December" mean just before Christmas? 😀 That would be so amazing... *dreams*
 
Regarding the first wave of CCLCM decisions, does "late December" mean just before Christmas? 😀 That would be so amazing... *dreams*

Dec 16th I believe is when the first set of acceptances are sent out. I think the next 2 rounds go out in Jan and Feb respectively.
 
Awesome. I'll be there. I only applied to UP, so no extended weekend for me! But hopefully you CCLCMers will drop by.
We'll see what we can do. 🙂

Regarding the first wave of CCLCM decisions, does "late December" mean just before Christmas? 😀 That would be so amazing... *dreams*
Yes.

Dec 16th I believe is when the first set of acceptances are sent out. I think the next 2 rounds go out in Jan and Feb respectively.
What will happen is that the adcomm will have the first subcommittee meeting on December 15, which is a Tuesday. Approximately 10 people will be given acceptances (could be as few as eight or as many as twelve). Dean Franco will then call each of these people to let them know that they've been accepted. Since Wednesday is her clinic day, my guess is that she'll make the calls on Thursday the 17th in the evening. This process will be repeated again in January and February, after which a waitlist will be made up. Does that make sense?
 
Since iceman77_7 isn't here to say it: shouldn't you be in class? :laugh:

I am listening to a verbal narrative of glycolysis right now.



...but I have other ends to achieve.


(There really needs to be a maniacal laughter smiley...)
 
I am listening to a verbal narrative of glycolysis right now.



...but I have other ends to achieve.


(There really needs to be a maniacal laughter smiley...)
I would just use this one: :meanie:
 
Those eggplants are awesome. :laugh:

We should give all the second lookers an official Case eggplant to take home with them. Maybe we could polish and shellac them (the eggplants, not the second lookers!) to accentuate the inherent beauty of their amaranthine color and luster.
 
Second Look has been announced: April 9-11!

Bad news for those of us who were also accepted to Ohio State...that's when they scheduled theirs too. What do I do?!?! I was banking on those Second Looks helping me decide!!
 
Second Look has been announced: April 9-11!

Bad news for those of us who were also accepted to Ohio State...that's when they scheduled theirs too. What do I do?!?! I was banking on those Second Looks helping me decide!!
Well, there are a couple of options that make sense to me:

1) Contact one of the schools and ask to come a different weekend to revisit. Downside of this is that you won't get to hang out with your fellow acceptees, but you can still meet students, spend more time at the school, look around for housing, etc. Also, since OSU is such a huge school, you might want to double check and make sure they only have one second look weekend.

2) Spend half of the weekend at one school and half at the other. So maybe go April 9-10 at one and April 10-11 at the other. I think that's what I would do if there's no way to avoid a conflict.

Either way, keep smiling. It's a good problem to have. 🙂
 
Second Look has been announced: April 9-11!

Bad news for those of us who were also accepted to Ohio State...that's when they scheduled theirs too. What do I do?!?! I was banking on those Second Looks helping me decide!!

?!? x2!? 🙁 I think we should have an adcomm-cage-match-showdown to see who gets to have that weekend! I wonder if this is done on purpose?
 
?!? x2!? 🙁 I think we should have an adcomm-cage-match-showdown to see who gets to have that weekend! I wonder if this is done on purpose?

I'm sure it wasn't done on purpose. I guess it's just the way things go...I'm pretty sure I want to go to the Case one and maybe do an unofficial OSU one (but it just wouldn't be as fun without meeting everybody...)
 
I was trying to push the 50th page this morning too, but I thought it unfair to pad my posts to get there! Some of us have to work...and some of us see that the eggplant in question has two noses, whereas Eddie has but one....and two noses = two faces = Janus. I was trying to draw out a response before I left for work this morning, but LTTP didn't bite! :shrug:
 
What will happen is that the adcomm will have the first subcommittee meeting on December 15, which is a Tuesday. Approximately 10 people will be given acceptances (could be as few as eight or as many as twelve). Dean Franco will then call each of these people to let them know that they've been accepted. Since Wednesday is her clinic day, my guess is that she'll make the calls on Thursday the 17th in the evening. This process will be repeated again in January and February, after which a waitlist will be made up. Does that make sense?

Yup, makes sense. Thanks!
 
wow this thread is insanely long.

did anyone get an interview recently for the university track?
 
Those eggplants are awesome. :laugh:

We should give all the second lookers an official Case eggplant to take home with them. Maybe we could polish and shellac them (the eggplants, not the second lookers!) to accentuate the inherent beauty of their amaranthine color and luster.

I could make you a CCF one, if you'd like.:laugh::laugh:
 
More discussion about CCLCM/Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine

Note how the responses did not address the substance of the arguments that are posted under this thread yesterday on 11/10/09, please refer to that section to see the intial arguments. Don’t let them detract from the general post by their posts such as “use a spell check.” Infantile retorts like that are pretty much representative of the general way that CCLCM approaches dissent. They claim I initiated ad hominem attacks. However, when examined in light of the general gist of what I was writing, they are hardly ad hominem. The point of this is to off set the fact that if you take all the statements on this website from anyone at CCLCM from over the past 4-5 years you will not find a single balanced opinion. I challenge you to find a single critical statement that usually isn’t offset by the blanket statement, “its not for everyone.” Most other institutions have folks that will write about It’s a challenge I am presenting to you guys as a fellow CCLCM student… after all, one of the core competencies is reflective practice right? I challenge you all to provide a similar balanced view for our future applicants to the program. They deserve honesty and an understanding of how their schooling here will impact patient care and their education. The fact that our tuition is waved is no excuse to be grateful and not discuss both positives and negatives.

In regards to Deans and approaching them about these issues: do you actually attend CCLCM? Do you actually have to deal with the juvenile behavior or our administration which continues to alienate the best and brightest potential faculty??? Usually there is an algorithm in place when one approaches the administration and I will discuss that below in general environment.

General Environment:

Positive Point 1:
There are many folks on the wards who feel a certain investment in the medical school and do their best to impart knowledge. Despite the lack of a real representation of the classical medical school system, if you listen closely you can pick up many clinical pearls from folks who are at the leading forefront of medicine in nearly every specialty.

Negative Point 1:
All of this positive gain comes at the expense of sacrificing quiet a bit of academic freedom. You feel it right away when you walk into the library/medical school portion of the building. You have a dress code that Toby Cosgrove himself enforces at various junctures around the clinic complex. Anyone who has done research knows that places that far exceed the clinic, like the NIH, and places on the same benchmark at the clinic, like Mayo, which enforce certain dress codes for their clinicians do not enforce this on their research staff. One of the joys of academia is that when you are in the lab, you can maintain comfort and freedom and focus on the science. This is a minute point, but its just to set the tone.

Negative Point 2:
One of the worst things you can do is allow students to regulate each other. Everyone here has been in a premed class where they look around and at the very front are a set of kids that have laminated notes, high lighters, usually in their pajamas, and they have developed sore shoulders from the amount of times their hands go up to answer what are usually rhetorical questions. Well imagine a terrible scenario… imagine a situation where those same kids are allowed to regulate you. Yep, that’s right, those kids have a say in our medical education and how you speak, how you present, how you spend your free time, and even how you conduct your research. Remember, usually these kids are the loudest… they look at life as “we were nerds that were beat up a whole lot in elementary school when we learned how to brown nose and made fun of all the time and now we are the ones in charge… heads are going to roll because now we are on top!”

So the problem starts in PBL. Most of my critics here will have to admit that the year usually starts off with everyone being pretty friendly… by the middle of the year someone had cried in PBL, people are tired of the acrimony, and most just want to get it over with, hoping that the clinical years hold some element of autonomy from your fellow students.

I was lucky, I knew how to play the game, how to smile and nod and how to not get on anyone’s radar. Other folks, who I greatly admire for their intelligence and capabilities, were not so lucky. Here is why, and here is how the algorithm works:

  • You are told that you are a self motivated learner. There is no set way to do PBL; everyone will find their own mojo.

  • You go to PBL and the unfortunate thing is that your PBL tutor is pretty much a nonexpert in the field that you studying. So they bring in an endocrinologist to be a PBL tutor for cardiology. Worse scenarios were a private practice plastic surgeon that retired and was bought in to do HemeOnc/Immuno and a masters of engineering who was bought in to tutor microbio. The reasoning behind this is that every generalist physician requires the ability to generate a solid differential even if they bring consultants in on the case. However, this is a travesty of education when you are actually a part of it. You’ll see on years 3 and 4 clinical years that the usual MO of clinical practice is to stream line consulting a specialty service alongside doing a workup so that you have specialty guidance from the get go.

This is contrary to the more efficient new pathway program at Harvard where specialist experts in the field run the PBL so that it is useful and impose proper limits on the learning objectives by weeding out stupid ones. What ends up happening in these CCLCM scenarios is that the PBL tutors take a huge step back and allow the students to come up with these learning objectives to present on subsequently. Most of the time, they are many years out from a basic science education and feel a little timid stepping in and regulating the learning objectives.

  • The learning objectives are generated and some of then are reasonable, but most of them are widely off the mark and are a wild goose chase. Often times, they are divided amongst the PBL group randomly. This is a huuuge contraindication to productivity. You see, a part of your evaluation comes from your “participation.” You may not want to feel out the case first and offer up reasonable learning objectives, but most folks are just throwing things out there in a wild approach that results in obscure learning objectives that are low yield for future clinical practice, the wards, or the boards. So you end up having to research a topic just because someone wanted to make sure that their end of block eval from their PBL tutor and colleagues lauded their participation. A more proper scenario would be that the person that suggests the archaic learning objective be forced to chase it down. That rarely happens though because the random allotment scenario is kept in play by these same people.

  • The presentation format can be regulated by your peers. This is contrary to the mantra of self directed learning. Whereas you can save quiet a bit of time by doing a chalk talk or just a discussion approach and presenting one of these obscure learning objectives in a time efficient and delivery efficient manner, your peers may decide that they want to force your hand into doing a power point presentation. So now, you end up wasting twice as much time unless you do what I did and just cut and paste from emedicine onto your powerpoint slide to satisfy their foolish request. After all, on the wards you will see different styles of teaching and all are tolerated depending on whether the speaker delivers the gist of the message through the modality he chooses. This is important to consider because their only retort will be that forcing you to adapt to a different modality makes you learn to be effective in multiple media. It’s a fair argument, but it doesn’t hold water when you realize that the whole point of PBL is to impart info and the whole mantra is self directed learning.

The bottom line: your peers decided that you were not wasting as much time as they were and became upset that you might actually be studying and learning real pertinent info. They decide you need to waste as much time as they do and attempt to bring the smack down on you in the group discussion of how things are going. If you offer resistance and indicate that your chosen modality is the way you feel most comfortable, expect your even respectful disagreement to show up on your evaluations at the mid and end block periods. Your only way out is to push back hard and make it apparent to these folk that you will unite with like minded people and ensure that they take as a hard a hit on the evals as you will. This form or regulation tends to force them back and out of your comfort zone. An alternative approach is to get the group members to have to do the learning objectives that they suggest so that they end up wasting time in the unreasonable objectives they generate.

  • Why does any of the above matter? It matters because passing on to the next year is based on these PBL evaluations. If you are devoted to truly learning and want to make the system more efficient, good luck. You will face tons of resistance and likely see it show up on the communications portion of your eval. One colleague of mine tried to address the issues above and received silencing feedback. Although this happened in one block, he was forced to put into the portfolio (more on this later) and despite it being a singular event, he had “remediate” this behavior as regulated by the medical school portfolio review committee. Remediation is a clever way to say, “bend over and find a way to document it.”

  • Bottom line: your class mates will make the environment acrimonious and you will realize that your ability to speak your mind is severely limited by certain portions of your class. I believe that the school could find a median that would make feedback a more effective tool. The administration needs to set limits on what feedback means and indicate that you cannot use feedback as an enforcement tool to make someone’s life miserable. They could also make PBL more fruitful for everyone involved… instead they insist that it yields many valuable tools for clinical and basic science analysis and point to their high average step 1 score (without realizing that this has more to do with the fact that we pretty much ignore what they make us do in PBL or minimize its interference, avoid preparing for the obscure seminars, and study from sources that they do not indicate as proper sources. So if you want to be an environment where brown nosers can make your life a bitter one, then CCLCM is the place for you.

  • I can give you the sad scenario of one student who simply dressed different and looked different with longer hair and darker colored clothes. In a feedback meeting he criticized what he thought was an inadequate set of seminars that would not give him the basis for his medical knowledge. Soon thereafter, his classmates reported him to the administration, asserting that they felt physically threatened by him. I know him personally and can tell you that not a single statement was made by this individual to any extent ever that would warrant this. He was subsequently forced to see a psychiatrist and write about these impressions others had off him. I think that this was a massively unfortunate event where the deans did not set the tone for inter student interactions and punish those students that cried wolf and created a terrible and harassing situation for this student. Certainly, every administration official has to take action when other students feel “threatened” but they also have to learn to be administration officials and not expand the comfort zone with other students so much as to allow them to use the administration as silencing tools. Those two students that reported this other student ought to have themselves been bought to the MSPRC for professionalism infractions for improperly utilizing resources and wasting everyone’s time.

Negative Point 3:
  • There is a lack of standardization because of too many cooks being in the kitchen. Everyone has different Physician Advisors. Some advisors are meticulous and go through your portfolio and feedback with a fine tooth comb, making you address things that most reasonable people would overlook. Other PAs let their students get away with a whole lot. This is another huge frustration; if you get stuck with the wrong PA you can pretty much expect a long haul of having to walk on crap cake patties throughout medical school. You will have to sacrifice quiet a bit of time to correcting minutiae in portfolio documentation and will definitely question which degree you deserve more at the end of the day, a masters of English Writing or an MD. You will sacrifice many hours of learning clinical pearls, research techniques, and basic science knowledge because these PAs will steal that time from you.

Negative Point 4:
  • The MSPRC itself is a barely regulated committee. They make it apparent that the appeal option is a nonoption. In fact, the head of the committee has made it apparent to various folks that if they exercise the appeal option it will be held against them. That is utterly unjust. They have punitive action against students for what they deemed as arrogance or lack of serious tone. They claim that they de-subjectify each portfolio. If this is the case, how then do they decide that they can demand punitive action based on tone?
  • The school also has a PA committee. In the initial charter of the school, there was never anything in writing that indicated that this committee would form a one way valve that lead to MSPRC action. In the interim, PAs can get together and decide that a certain simple action on the part of the student ought to be referred forward to the MSPRC who will, more often than not, take punitive action. As examples, one PA, also the head of one clinical block at the clinic, who demands that he/she be called DOCTOR if someone forgets to address their email to him/her with the proper title, took action in the following way: he/she decided that one student had that student’s life out of order and intervened. He/She then decided to refer this student to the MSPRC for a professionalism infraction because this student had not responded to a distant email in a timely fashion. Prior to this, he/she had never bought this up as an issue. He/She sort of waited and sprang this maneuver on this student in such way that ambushed this student that trusted the PA with personal details. Its ridiculous that under the blanket of professionalism accusations, students can be bought to the MSPRC without any consideration or safety valve to prevent irrelevant punitive action. In any other medical school this student would be treated like an adult and he/she would manage their own life.
  • So to answer certain criticisms, to go the deans is to then bring yourself under an intense scrutiny that will likely result in a referral to the MSPRC for one thing or another just to bring you into silence.
  • The MSPRC has yet to find a way to take the subjective approach out of the portfolio. The portfolio is basically the document that addresses a set of 9 competencies or so that you have to prove you fulfilled using “evidence.” Its supposed to be evidence based and an honest representation. The PA is the check and balance on the student. Unfortunately, as I said before there is no standardization across the board. Many PAs just want to get the job done and allow the student to use the portfolio as a spring board to ignore negative and spin them into positives. This is hardly an honest approach. Other PAs demand a bit of balance out of their students. The unfortunate result is that the MSPRC will usually provide students like me with an end of the year assessment that makes me look like the second coming of Jonas Salk. Others are less fortunate and the balance demanded of them gets them less than accolades and often times demands for futile remediation.
More to come later with discussions of the system and its impact on the Boards and the Wards.
 
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