2016-2017 Rosalind Franklin University Application Thread

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mavric1298 said:
Kind of crazy - but just received an II...I thought my interview season was over. Interesting
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Congrats! It's seems they only schedule for the following week when ever they invite.
 
Dr.DrakeRamoray said:
Is there anyone else out there who has been complete since July and not heard anything? Not even one of those "hold" emails that I keep seeing on this thread.
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I was complete in July and first week of August received a "we are behind at the moment but guarantee a response within 8-10 weeks". That was the last e-mail I ever received from Rosalind Franklin. +pissed+

Moment of silence for all of our brethren and sisters riding this same train :banana::banana:
 
Hello! For anyone interested in a roommate at Woodlands, feel free to message me!

I'm a male from California.
 
Anyone here have an email for dean/director of admissions? I am having trouble finding it.
 
cranberrysnail said:
I am recommending that applicants and accepted students seriously rethink their commitment to coming to CMS. Posting this is not something I do lightly but many of us are so tired of fighting our administration we hope public recognition will help speed the process of change.

  • Right now, the M3 class is struggling to schedule their in-house and away rotations because their applications are missing requirements or have requirements students did not know would expire. Many M3s did not discover their applications were not going to be accepted until they were rejected by their extramural sites. The administration consciously decided not to let students know this: a dean was asked to do so and said it was not needed.
  • Internal M4 electives are handled by a first-come, first-serve website that crashes repeatedly during the 1 hour allotted for applications. Some students could apply. Some could not even log in. Those students will need to scramble later on to fulfill their requirements as people let go of electives they decided not to take.
  • The M3 class went through an arduous process to get a highly unpopular grading scheme changed. M3 clerkships are graded on four elements: shelf exam, professionalism, medical knowledge, and communication. Until January, the school's official policy was the *lowest* of those grades determined your overall performance. It took a signed petition and six months of arguing by student representatives to have the concerns taken seriously.
  • We are charged for background checks, tb mask fittings during fourth year (since most can't leave clerkships to go to school), immunizations, and other basic things that add up to hundreds of dollars a year while still getting under-average academic support.
While these concerns are not immediate to the incoming classes, it brings about the question of whether you want to come to a school where the administration is working against your best interests during a time that is crucial to your future careers.
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Yikes!
 
cranberrysnail said:
I am recommending that applicants and accepted students seriously rethink their commitment to coming to CMS. Posting this is not something I do lightly but many of us are so tired of fighting our administration we hope public recognition will help speed the process of change.

  • Right now, the M3 class is struggling to schedule their in-house and away rotations because their applications are missing requirements or have requirements students did not know would expire. Many M3s did not discover their applications were not going to be accepted until they were rejected by their extramural sites. The administration consciously decided not to let students know this: a dean was asked to do so and said it was not needed.
  • Internal M4 electives are handled by a first-come, first-serve website that crashes repeatedly during the 1 hour allotted for applications. Some students could apply. Some could not even log in. Those students will need to scramble later on to fulfill their requirements as people let go of electives they decided not to take.
  • The M3 class went through an arduous process to get a highly unpopular grading scheme changed. M3 clerkships are graded on four elements: shelf exam, professionalism, medical knowledge, and communication. Until January, the school's official policy was the *lowest* of those grades determined your overall performance. It took a signed petition and six months of arguing by student representatives to have the concerns taken seriously.
  • We are charged for background checks, tb mask fittings during fourth year (since most can't leave clerkships to go to school), immunizations, and other basic things that add up to hundreds of dollars a year while still getting under-average academic support.
While these concerns are not immediate to the incoming classes, it brings about the question of whether you want to come to a school where the administration is working against your best interests during a time that is crucial to your future careers.
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Shots fired.
 
Could anyone confirm these issues? If so.. what does that mean for us as possible incoming students...?? Are they basically recommeding to take another acceptance if we have one?
 
kraskadva said:
@tantacles

Care to comment on the quoted post above in #1888?
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The issues with students getting rejected from rotations was not as bad when I was there.

I initially complained about the grading policy, but then I checked other schools' algorithms and found that it's pretty comparable; for example, at many places where they average grades, the minimum shelf score to get an A is the same as or greater than ours (see UIC's clerkship grading system, which is public if you google it, as an example of this.). Our bare minimum to get an A in a clerkship is the national average. And honestly, if you can't score above at least the national average, I don't think you exceeded expectations, and you probably don't deserve an A. Reasonable? I think so.

That being said, most of the other stuff is spot on. Driving an hour and a half to get to rotation sites was not an uncommon thing to complain about and is a definite detractor despite our school having some amazing educational sites (Lutheran general, Christ, Masonic, cook county, among others.)

So some of this is probably due to the fact that this person got a bad shake, but getting a bad shake isn't rare at this school; just uncommon.


Large dogs
 
Right now, the M3 class is struggling to schedule their in-house and away rotations because their applications are missing requirements or have requirements students did not know would expire.
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This is not the full story. The issue was that the majority of students were not aware of a requirement for away rotations. This requirement is an up to date Mask Fit that is set by VSAS (the system that most medical school uses for away rotations). It is outlined under the VSAS website:

5. This student has completed a Mask Fit Test.

This is only one of the dozen requirements that need to be done when applying for aways. The whole process is pretty ridiculous, however that's not limited to just CMS. It is true that CMS administration could have been more clear on this specific requirement.

Many M3s did not discover their applications were not going to be accepted until they were rejected by their extramural sites.
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No application was rejected by extramural sites, because none of the applications were approved to even go through. For an application to get to an extramural site, the host institution (CMS in this case), has to approve it. This is an added layer of security when a student is missing a requirement. This above statement is simply false.

The administration consciously decided not to let students know this: a dean was asked to do so and said it was not needed.
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I have nothing to say about this specific dean. However, there are other people in the administration that work hard and care deeply about the students.

Internal M4 electives are handled by a first-come, first-serve website that crashes repeatedly during the 1 hour allotted for applications. Some students could apply. Some could not even log in. Those students will need to scramble later on to fulfill their requirements as people let go of electives they decided not to take.
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Not a big deal. There are plenty of electives and scheduling will get worked out no matter what. Sure, students may not get their top choice, but that's life. Many medical students have a certain sense of entitlement when it comes to getting things they want.

The M3 class went through an arduous process to get a highly unpopular grading scheme changed. M3 clerkships are graded on four elements: shelf exam, professionalism, medical knowledge, and communication. Until January, the school's official policy was the *lowest* of those grades determined your overall performance. It took a signed petition and six months of arguing by student representatives to have the concerns taken seriously.
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Doesn't affect incoming students at all. First, the previous grading system was actually comparable to other med schools. Secondly, it is widely recognized that 3rd year/clinical grades are extremely subjective. However, having said the above, the grading system was always going to be re-evaluated since the beginning of the year. The administration gave a timeline, but the students were not satisfied with it. 69% of the class signed the petition. The responses were biased as those who did not care simply did not respond. One positive thing to take away from this is that the school is constantly changing and trying to improve. They listened and changed the grading policy to appease the students.

We are charged for background checks, tb mask fittings during fourth year (since most can't leave clerkships to go to school), immunizations, and other basic things that add up to hundreds of dollars a year while still getting under-average academic support.
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Background Check - $55
Immunizations - done for free at the student health clinic
Mask Fitting for 4th Year - $40

I don't believe I've paid for anything else. Our tuition is fixed from first year, and starting this year CMS gets UWorld for free for both STEP1 + STEP2. That's hundred of dollars in my pocket.

Any entity, whether it be schools, hospitals, or companies, has their own faults and room for improvement. While CMS definitely has its faults, so do many other schools and institutions. I don't think its as bad as this student makes it out to be.
 
cysticduct said:
This is not the full story. The issue was that the majority of students were not aware of a requirement for away rotations. This requirement is an up to date Mask Fit that is set by VSAS (the system that most medical school uses for away rotations). It is outlined under the VSAS website:

5. This student has completed a Mask Fit Test.

This is only one of the dozen requirements that need to be done when applying for aways. The whole process is pretty ridiculous, however that's not limited to just CMS. It is true that CMS administration could have been more clear on this specific requirement.


No application was rejected by extramural sites, because none of the applications were approved to even go through. For an application to get to an extramural site, the host institution (CMS in this case), has to approve it. This is an added layer of security when a student is missing a requirement. This above statement is simply false.


I have nothing to say about this specific dean. However, there are other people in the administration that work hard and care deeply about the students.


Not a big deal. There are plenty of electives and scheduling will get worked out no matter what. Sure, students may not get their top choice, but that's life. Many medical students have a certain sense of entitlement when it comes to getting things they want.


Doesn't affect incoming students at all. First, the previous grading system was actually comparable to other med schools. Secondly, it is widely recognized that 3rd year/clinical grades are extremely subjective. However, having said the above, the grading system was always going to be re-evaluated since the beginning of the year. The administration gave a timeline, but the students were not satisfied with it. 69% of the class signed the petition. The responses were biased as those who did not care simply did not respond. One positive thing to take away from this is that the school is constantly changing and trying to improve. They listened and changed the grading policy to appease the students.


Background Check - $55
Immunizations - done for free at the student health clinic
Mask Fitting for 4th Year - $40

I don't believe I've paid for anything else. Our tuition is fixed from first year, and starting this year CMS gets UWorld for free for both STEP1 + STEP2. That's hundred of dollars in my pocket.

Any entity, whether it be schools, hospitals, or companies, has their own faults and room for improvement. While CMS definitely has its faults, so do many other schools and institutions. I don't think its as bad as this student makes it out to be.
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Thanks for your opinion. Do you mind sharing what you feel about CMS' major faults?
 
tantacles said:
. . . Isn't that what this person just did?
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Hm, if so, I didn't completely understand, and just thought it was a rebuttal. I meant more expansion on this sentence: "While CMS definitely has its faults, so do many other schools and institutions."
 
You know this whole thread feels kind of down atm... is there anybody who can post about their positive experiences at CMS?
 
[QUOTE "watermelon master, post: 18689881, member: 806347"]You know this whole thread feels kind of down atm... is there anybody who can post about their positive experiences at CMS?[/QUOTE]
I am a current student at CMS. I chose this school from 4 acceptances (3MD, 1DO) and have not once regretted my decision. While I am not yet in my clinical years, I have had extremely positive experiences thus far with both the administration and student body. In my experiences, the administration has been very receptive in terms of both academic and extracurricular needs. One of the reasons that I chose CMS was the availability of the admin to the students and the overall positive school community, and have not once been disappointed in these regards. (Of course, I also feel as though I am receiving a great education both in the classroom and through early clinical experiences.) In regard to the circulating negative post... there is a certain level of responsibility that every medical student holds in seeking resources and clarifying misunderstandings. I have a feeling that the student who posted that may have, in some aspects, failed in upholding this personal responsibility and set blame on the school as a whole. Overall, I love this school and I am extremely proud and grateful to receive my medical education here.
 
watermelon master said:
You know this whole thread feels kind of down atm... is there anybody who can post about their positive experiences at CMS?
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I am a current student at CMS. I chose this school from 4 acceptances (3MD, 1DO) and have not once regretted my decision. While I am not yet in my clinical years, I have had extremely positive experiences thus far with both the administration and student body. In my experiences, the administration has been very receptive in terms of both academic and extracurricular needs. One of the reasons that I chose CMS was the availability of the admin to the students and the overall positive school community, and have not once been disappointed in these regards. (Of course, I also feel as though I am receiving a great education both in the classroom and through early clinical experiences.) In regard to the circulating negative post... there is a certain level of responsibility that every medical student holds in seeking resources and clarifying misunderstandings. I have a feeling that the student who posted that may have, in some aspects, failed in upholding this personal responsibility and set blame on the school as a whole. Overall, I love this school and I am extremely proud and grateful to receive my medical education here.
 
medstudent1900 said:
[QUOTE "watermelon master, post: 18689881, member: 806347"]You know this whole thread feels kind of down atm... is there anybody who can post about their positive experiences at CMS?
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I am a current student at CMS. I chose this school from 4 acceptances (3MD, 1DO) and have not once regretted my decision. While I am not yet in my clinical years, I have had extremely positive experiences thus far with both the administration and student body. In my experiences, the administration has been very receptive in terms of both academic and extracurricular needs. One of the reasons that I chose CMS was the availability of the admin to the students and the overall positive school community, and have not once been disappointed in these regards. (Of course, I also feel as though I am receiving a great education both in the classroom and through early clinical experiences.) In regard to the circulating negative post... there is a certain level of responsibility that every medical student holds in seeking resources and clarifying misunderstandings. I have a feeling that the student who posted that may have, in some aspects, failed in upholding this personal responsibility and set blame on the school as a whole. Overall, I love this school and I am extremely proud and grateful to receive my medical education here.[/QUOTE]
What early clinical experiences do you guys get?
 
IWannaGoFast said:
I am a current student at CMS. I chose this school from 4 acceptances (3MD, 1DO) and have not once regretted my decision. While I am not yet in my clinical years, I have had extremely positive experiences thus far with both the administration and student body. In my experiences, the administration has been very receptive in terms of both academic and extracurricular needs. One of the reasons that I chose CMS was the availability of the admin to the students and the overall positive school community, and have not once been disappointed in these regards. (Of course, I also feel as though I am receiving a great education both in the classroom and through early clinical experiences.) In regard to the circulating negative post... there is a certain level of responsibility that every medical student holds in seeking resources and clarifying misunderstandings. I have a feeling that the student who posted that may have, in some aspects, failed in upholding this personal responsibility and set blame on the school as a whole. Overall, I love this school and I am extremely proud and grateful to receive my medical education here.
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What early clinical experiences do you guys get?[/QUOTE]

There is a student-run clinic for community members without health insurance next to campus, called the Interprofessional Community Clinic, that you can begin volunteering at during your first semester at CMS. You work in small student teams, do the initial intake and H&P for patients, and then present cases to a team of providers. This is extremely helpful in developing history taking and physical exam (after passing your physical exam practical) skills, learning EMR, and becoming comfortable presenting cases to providers. Additionally, there is a Saturday clinic downtown called NLVS that students work at, which provides a similar experience, among other skills-building experiences such as community glucose screenings, etc.
 
medstudent1900 said:
There is a student-run clinic for community members without health insurance next to campus, called the Interprofessional Community Clinic, that you can begin volunteering at during your first semester at CMS. You work in small student teams, do the initial intake and H&P for patients, and then present cases to a team of providers. This is extremely helpful in developing history taking and physical exam (after passing your physical exam practical) skills, learning EMR, and becoming comfortable presenting cases to providers. Additionally, there is a Saturday clinic downtown called NLVS that students work at, which provides a similar experience, among other skills-building experiences such as community glucose screenings, etc.
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THERE. I fixed your guys' quote tags. Am I the only one who gives a **** about syntax? :laugh:
 
I'm an M3 at CMS. The student who posted about the M4 year-planning issues clearly blew it out of proportion. Our administrators can sometimes make mistakes - they're dealing with almost 800 medical students, all of whom have different wants, needs, and desired specialties. But there is definitely no systematic effort to undermine students. Compared to other medical schools our school is probably more responsive to input from students - CMS is after all, a very small school. Yes, it took them 6 months to change our M3 grading, but THEY DID IT, and implemented almost the exact grading criteria suggested by students. That's all I'm going to say for now, but I will link to a post I wrote last year about our school. The post is me responding to some questions about our school, but you can get the jist of what I'm saying. Almost a year later I still agree with everything I said in that post and now as an M3/rising M4 I will add that I am getting a wonderful clinical education and feel on-par (if not more prepared) with my peers from other Chicagoland med schools (who we work with on a DAILY basis). Lastly, at the end of the day what matters is getting a good residency, and we have a really, really good match list every year. We already matched 4 optho this year (early match) at very impressive institutions.

Nice Marmot said:
I'm an M2 at CMS and I have a 60 lecture exam tomorrow, but I felt like I had to take the time to correct some things. First of all, thank you for providing such a thorough response, but a lot has changed since you graduated and I wanted to clarify those points (from your "cons" list):

1) Clinical preparation is DECENT (not amazing, not terrible) and I felt totally prepared walking into my preceptorship last week and doing HPI's on real patients. I actually appreciate that we don't have hours and hours of clinical skills training each week because it gives us time to study - you will learn how to do a good HPI and physical no matter what. Learning the basic sciences (for Step 1) is more important right now. Anyway, we now have 2 OSCE's and multiple other clinical skills workshops as part of our 2nd year Essentials of Clinical Reasoning (ECR) class. We also have the Interprofessional Community Clinic (ICC) which allows for COPIOUS clinical exposure. We ('cause I'm on the ICC board) train you on EMR. You take your own HPI's and do focused physicals. You present to physicians. Shifts are NOT hard to come by, especially before exams, especially if you get involved (i.e. apply for a board position). Lastly, students last year started a shadowing program through the alumni relations department where you can shadow CMS alums in ANY SPECIALTY you want. I know a lot of people that used the program and loved it. The bottom line is that now-a-days, if you don't have enough clinical training by the end of 2nd year, that's your fault.

1a) This comment has serious merit. We don't have an attached hospital so clinical research opportunities are hard to come by. Nonetheless, it's not impossible and I know many students who (a) found clinical research at the VA (b) found clinical research at Northwestern or other academic centers that they can do on their computer (c) do clinical research on gait, biomechanics or podiatry-related topics (THESE OPPORTUNITIES ARE PLENTIFUL ON CAMPUS), or (d) do summer clinical research programs. In fact, we have a handful of CMS-only clinical summer research programs. One of them is the Sinai Urban Health Institute (SUHI) summer clinical research program (paid ~$5,000 per student, five or six student spots), where you research health disparities in Chicago and other public health issues. One is the Russell Summer Clinical research program (also paid, also plenty of spots) where they pair you with clinicians to do research. There is also an EMED summer research fellowship I think. You will also get emails from the Dean every week (as an M1) regarding summer research programs. Once again, clinical research is not as readily available as it is at UCLA Medical School, but there are still tons of opportunities.

1c) The M3/M4 grading scheme has COMPLETELY CHANGED, due to student input. This is no longer an issue. Also M1/M2 year is now pass-fail.

2a) The students have been shoving Step 1 down faculty's throat and it now seems like classes are PRETTY GOOD for step 1 (haven't taken it yet, but I've started studying for it). Path teaches almost exactly to Pathoma, most of what we learn in other classes is very similar to First Aid level of detail/depth. That being said the M1 curriculum is WAY TO DETAILED, and M2 still has some issues (like Micro/Immuno being too detailed) but we are undergoing a massive curriculum overhaul that will address this. M1/M2 exam questions are now being written as clinical vignettes, much more similar to Step 1. We've also gotten school-sponsored discounts on nearly every Step 1 prep material (First Aid, DIT, USMLE-Rx, Picmonic, are discounted and Firecracker is Free).

2b) See 2a)

3) We do not have our own hospital so clinical mentorship can be difficult to come by. THIS IS A SERIOUS DISADVANTAGE. However, we do have professors/clinicians on staff with a wide reach who can help you think about which programs (nationally) to apply to and for some residency programs (i.e. neuro) maybe even put in a good word. You also have to realize that because our school has been around since 1912, there are CMS alums in EVERY SPECIALTY, EVERY CITY. Go into Google right now and type in "Chicago Medical School," with a specialty of your choice and a city of your choice. You are guaranteed to find at least one faculty page where they list their alma matter as "Chicago Medical School." Email them. They're almost guaranteed to respond (I've had 100% response rate from 3 CMS alums I emailed in Boston) because alums want to help current students out. Also if you're from SoCal, we have a THRIVING SoCal alumni association with at least yearly (if not twice yearly) baller meetings (with catering, open bar, tons of alumni from every field).

4) Cost. This is still a serious issue. However, they continue to add more and more options for students. I was funded (internally - i.e. from the school) with a $15,000 fellowship last year, as well as a separate $2,000 scholarship. They do offer some money. And Alumni continue to donate money. I think that EVENTUALLY (probably too late for you reading this), this will no longer be an issue. We also have a tuition freeze so your M1 tuition is the tuition you will graduate with.

In closing, I just want to say that CMS is GOING UP (...on a Tuesday...) - no really, things are improving drastically at this school. People ARE choosing CMS as a first-choice over other med schools (I have a friend here who chose CMS over a large East-coast state school and over Temple because of our SoCal connections). I have another friend who chose CMS over other acceptances because of our interprofessional focus (strange, I know, but true story). There's way more school pride than I saw last year (everyone's wearing school gear), intramural sports and recreational activities get added every week, more and more volunteering opportunities. Faculty, staff, and admin are happy to be here - it's kind of strange to see all of these middle-aged or older people bouncing around the hallways who just LOVE SERVING STUDENTS. Our facilities are EXTREMELY NICE - I've seen many medical schools and not a single one has had as up-to-date, clean, modern, spacious facilities as we do. Also, when students complain about something it gets fixed. In general, this is a really amazing place to be. I think of it (in the winter at least) as an island of good vibes in the frozen North Chicago tundra.

GOOD LUCK to those applying and feel free to PM with specific questions (keep it specific please, time is of the essence for me right now)!
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M4 here. While many of us like to take shots at our school (as you have read about already), the reality is that CMS is a US accredited medical school that is a means to an end. It's not a sexy medical school to go to, it's not a big name, but it's a solid medical school that's close to an awesome city. How can I say it's a solid medical school? My class (class of 2017)'s average step 1 was the same as the national step 1 average. We're not a top ten or top 25 medical school, but we outperform our expectations. Medical education is a tricky field, so even if our administration has had it's bumps in the road, so have administrations in other medical schools as well. There will always be ways to improve our medical school, and changes take time. For those of you who have been accepted and desire to come to CMS, please do not feel worried or stressed about your choice. Instead, rejoice that you have the opportunity to become a physician at a time when competition is fierce to get into medical school. I hope you feel excited to attend CMS as you will be attending a school with a strong sense of camaraderie and unrelenting spirit. You will have enlightening experiences and will emerge a confident MD candidate. I have really enjoyed my time at CMS and as someone who has worked with medical students from other Chicago medical schools through fourth year rotations and extracurricular activities, I do not regret my decision to attend my school. It's a means to an end, so as long as you keep your eye on the prize, you can work through all the troubles and still come out achieving your dream.
 
Have any pre-II peeps reached out to admissions lately to say what's up? Been complete for 17 weeks now and cant tell if I'm just impatient and need to be told they're getting there, or if I need a reality check and prob should just move on from CMS
 
drclean said:
Have any pre-II peeps reached out to admissions lately to say what's up? Been complete for 17 weeks now and cant tell if I'm just impatient and need to be told they're getting there, or if I need a reality check and prob should just move on from CMS
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You should do what makes you feel better. If being hopeful makes you feel better, do that. If you would rather be hopeless, do that. Just stop checking your email every five seconds if it bothers you.


Large dogs
 
tantacles said:
You should do what makes you feel better. If being hopeful makes you feel better, do that. If you would rather be hopeless, do that. Just stop checking your email every five seconds if it bothers you.


Large dogs
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What about drinking a tub of alfredo sauce? That will make me feel better
 
Marlfox19 said:
M4 here. While many of us like to take shots at our school (as you have read about already), the reality is that CMS is a US accredited medical school that is a means to an end. It's not a sexy medical school to go to, it's not a big name, but it's a solid medical school that's close to an awesome city. How can I say it's a solid medical school? My class (class of 2017)'s average step 1 was the same as the national step 1 average. We're not a top ten or top 25 medical school, but we outperform our expectations. Medical education is a tricky field, so even if our administration has had it's bumps in the road, so have administrations in other medical schools as well. There will always be ways to improve our medical school, and changes take time. For those of you who have been accepted and desire to come to CMS, please do not feel worried or stressed about your choice. Instead, rejoice that you have the opportunity to become a physician at a time when competition is fierce to get into medical school. I hope you feel excited to attend CMS as you will be attending a school with a strong sense of camaraderie and unrelenting spirit. You will have enlightening experiences and will emerge a confident MD candidate. I have really enjoyed my time at CMS and as someone who has worked with medical students from other Chicago medical schools through fourth year rotations and extracurricular activities, I do not regret my decision to attend my school. It's a means to an end, so as long as you keep your eye on the prize, you can work through all the troubles and still come out achieving your dream.
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Just to play devil's advocate, every other school I have interviewed at has "above-average" step 1 scores, because the average includes people who take it from schools other than MD schools. An MD school just hitting the average for step 1 is not a good metric from what I understand. Not trying to continue trashing the school, but this is something to point out..
 
Interviewed early Dec, put on hold late Dec and have heard nothing since. Is anyone else in the same boat?
 
Interviewed mid-Feb as well and have not heard back yet. Anyone else in similar position? Also, any rejections sent out today? Good luck all!!! 🙂
 
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