Oh I see. I actually didn't realize that, so that's good to know. I have really only dealt with DO schools, and haven't had much interaction with MD schools, so I didn't mean to put up empty speculation, I was genuinely curious. Thanks for the info!
*2016-2017 Washington State University Application Thread
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Oh I see. I actually didn't realize that, so that's good to know. I have really only dealt with DO schools, and haven't had much interaction with MD schools, so I didn't mean to put up empty speculation, I was genuinely curious. Thanks for the info!
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So I interviewed yesterday and we were told by the admissions committee that 60 spots have already been given out and they will not accept any more students until after the end of the last interview (March 24th). So if you haven't been selected as of yet, we're basically on a "waitlist".
Also a few pros and cons of ESFCOM based on the interview day:
pros:
-friendly faculty, very engaging and very mission minded with a strong emphasis on rural populations. Excellent.
-flexibility with cutting-edge curriculum and willingness to listen to students' concerns
- Anatomy lab is top-notch
-Spokane is beautiful
Cons:
2 big concerns that I left with after interview day.
1) during the faculty panel, we were shown a schedule of a typical week during the first year. Closely looking at this schedule shows not a single hour dedicated to "lecture". When asked about this, they described that most of the learning will be done individually based on content that will be provided to you; most of the learning will be done in "case-work"-type scenarios that will change weekly. I've never heard of this type of learning and am curious to your guys' thought on this.
2) Year 3. Rotations will take place at your regional site and will be in the same place for the entire year. They described a process in which you will only follow X amount of patients in different fields (peds, gyn, family practice, etc.) and described this process as a "continuity of care" learning process. While that sounds very intriguing, I was a little concerned for a few things (that I asked about, to which they responded "we haven't figured out the specifics yet..."):
- What about specialties that are unpredictable in nature? For instance, I can't expect to follow one of my patient into an ER under this continuity of care model, and even if you could, that would leave your ED rotation experience very sparse.
- How do you control exposure for every student to every clinical presentation in every department if you are only following X amounts of patients? (not everybody walks in with ectopic pregnancy, for instance, and if you are only following 1 pregnant patient, how do you ensure that all gain that clinical exposure?)
I'm interested in your thoughts and encourage these comments as learning opportunities for myself and others considering this school so that all of us can learn.
Also a few pros and cons of ESFCOM based on the interview day:
pros:
-friendly faculty, very engaging and very mission minded with a strong emphasis on rural populations. Excellent.
-flexibility with cutting-edge curriculum and willingness to listen to students' concerns
- Anatomy lab is top-notch
-Spokane is beautiful
Cons:
2 big concerns that I left with after interview day.
1) during the faculty panel, we were shown a schedule of a typical week during the first year. Closely looking at this schedule shows not a single hour dedicated to "lecture". When asked about this, they described that most of the learning will be done individually based on content that will be provided to you; most of the learning will be done in "case-work"-type scenarios that will change weekly. I've never heard of this type of learning and am curious to your guys' thought on this.
2) Year 3. Rotations will take place at your regional site and will be in the same place for the entire year. They described a process in which you will only follow X amount of patients in different fields (peds, gyn, family practice, etc.) and described this process as a "continuity of care" learning process. While that sounds very intriguing, I was a little concerned for a few things (that I asked about, to which they responded "we haven't figured out the specifics yet..."):
- What about specialties that are unpredictable in nature? For instance, I can't expect to follow one of my patient into an ER under this continuity of care model, and even if you could, that would leave your ED rotation experience very sparse.
- How do you control exposure for every student to every clinical presentation in every department if you are only following X amounts of patients? (not everybody walks in with ectopic pregnancy, for instance, and if you are only following 1 pregnant patient, how do you ensure that all gain that clinical exposure?)
I'm interested in your thoughts and encourage these comments as learning opportunities for myself and others considering this school so that all of us can learn.
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You're welcome.
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First off thank you @Firedawg123 for the update on admissions process.
1) This learning style, if implemented correctly, would be a very beneficial way to learn in a way that we will actually practice as physicians, i.e., figuring out complex information regarding our patients, working collaboratively with others, and working on a topic that is immersive beyond just reading books/lecture material and conducting labs. As a person who has attended both a traditional university, and one that emphasized collaborative learning, I can say I retained more from the collaborative environment. The only question in my mind, is how will all of the information we need to know for boards be incorporated into this specific case oriented approach? They said that it would be, but I don't think anyone will really know until they experience it; however, I have faith it will be.
2) My understanding of it was that we were going to spend a large portion of our clinic years in a longitudinal clerkship, i.e., following around patients X, Y and Z (I think it's in the 50-100 range), but we would also have time in traditional clerkship experiences to round out our training. Now, again they didn't have a lot of specifics about this, but made sure to say that we would have exposure to all of the main specialties and have time to do electives. There are also around 40 other medical schools that are utilizing Longitudinal clerkships (AAMC). I read that among those doing it or at least partially doing it are Columbia, Duke, UW, UBC, USC, Tufts, UCSF and many others. Googling this topic will give you a good afternoon worth of reading.
Additionally: I think that if we really want to get specialty exposure and training as one of the main aspects of our choice in medical school, WSU probably isn't the school to choose in the first place. They really do seem to want to train doctors that want to be in primary care.
1) This learning style, if implemented correctly, would be a very beneficial way to learn in a way that we will actually practice as physicians, i.e., figuring out complex information regarding our patients, working collaboratively with others, and working on a topic that is immersive beyond just reading books/lecture material and conducting labs. As a person who has attended both a traditional university, and one that emphasized collaborative learning, I can say I retained more from the collaborative environment. The only question in my mind, is how will all of the information we need to know for boards be incorporated into this specific case oriented approach? They said that it would be, but I don't think anyone will really know until they experience it; however, I have faith it will be.
2) My understanding of it was that we were going to spend a large portion of our clinic years in a longitudinal clerkship, i.e., following around patients X, Y and Z (I think it's in the 50-100 range), but we would also have time in traditional clerkship experiences to round out our training. Now, again they didn't have a lot of specifics about this, but made sure to say that we would have exposure to all of the main specialties and have time to do electives. There are also around 40 other medical schools that are utilizing Longitudinal clerkships (AAMC). I read that among those doing it or at least partially doing it are Columbia, Duke, UW, UBC, USC, Tufts, UCSF and many others. Googling this topic will give you a good afternoon worth of reading.
Additionally: I think that if we really want to get specialty exposure and training as one of the main aspects of our choice in medical school, WSU probably isn't the school to choose in the first place. They really do seem to want to train doctors that want to be in primary care.
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Since WSU is monitoring this thread, I just want to speak directly to those of you looking on from admissions:
In the future, please ensure the dates that you give out initially are concrete out of respect for your applicants. I was in the first interview group in January, when your representatives told my group that we would hear back by the third week of February, or the end of February at the latest, about whether we were admitted, placed on the alternate list, or denied. Based on this information, I planned to make some key financial and residential decisions at the beginning of March based on whether I am accepted to WSU or will be attending another school out of state. However, since I am still in limbo, I've lost money having to delay these plans.
I understand that there are hundreds of applicants to evaluate, and I appreciate the time and care you all take to pick out applicants, but delaying for another month is ridiculous. Every other school I have applied to has had the courtesy to their applicants to let them know of a decision on the timescale they provided at interview day.
I really fell in love with your school, and I love the idea of staying in Washington, but one of the concerns of a new school is lack of organization and preparation. This does not make me (or other applicants) look fondly on your school if you are not organized enough to keep to a schedule with your students.
In the future, please ensure the dates that you give out initially are concrete out of respect for your applicants. I was in the first interview group in January, when your representatives told my group that we would hear back by the third week of February, or the end of February at the latest, about whether we were admitted, placed on the alternate list, or denied. Based on this information, I planned to make some key financial and residential decisions at the beginning of March based on whether I am accepted to WSU or will be attending another school out of state. However, since I am still in limbo, I've lost money having to delay these plans.
I understand that there are hundreds of applicants to evaluate, and I appreciate the time and care you all take to pick out applicants, but delaying for another month is ridiculous. Every other school I have applied to has had the courtesy to their applicants to let them know of a decision on the timescale they provided at interview day.
I really fell in love with your school, and I love the idea of staying in Washington, but one of the concerns of a new school is lack of organization and preparation. This does not make me (or other applicants) look fondly on your school if you are not organized enough to keep to a schedule with your students.
I am on the same boat as you and feel your pain. It is indeed frustrating. I just hope it pays off in the end for us towards the end of March...Assuming that is not changed. Keep strong my friend!
I am in the same boat as well and appreciate you saying this. All of this waiting not only wears on a person emotionally, but it does financially as well as this is a pretty expensive process, especially when it comes to deciding on committing to other schools. We have to stay positive though. I wonder how many from the first interview group were accepted compared to the other interview groups. I still haven't decided if it was a disadvantage to have been a part of the first group. It might have been better to not be the first applicants they worked with, especially as they learned to score MMI. I kind of regret not waiting for them to get one or two interview dates done before I went, especially since interviewing earlier here didn't matter at all in terms of the admission process.
In the end though, these are little things and I ultimately take responsibility as an applicant on whether or not I had a strong application and interviewed well.
I agree with you totally. Just to touch on your topic of being in the first group, it is my belief that being in the first group is a huuuuge advantage. I am in the second group, my interview cohort on 2/24 was told that we were the first batch of applicants to be interviewed for a waitlist spot. Essentially, if you interviewed from Jan 1 (start of the cycle) to Feb 17th, you would be considered for the 60 spots to be accepted by 3/15. That's 60 out of roughly ~150 (based on 24 interviewees per day from start til 2/17) that you can hopefully get an offer. I felt crummy that they started our interview day saying "But don't worry, not all 60 students will accept the offer" because I rather interview for a chance to be admitted on my merits and not based on if someone else backed out of their offer. The second group of interviewees from 2/24 - 3/24 are competing with the entire pool + dependent on whether or not a spot opens up.
As to whether it was an advantage of being the first interview date of the first group vs a later interview date in the first group (say early Feb), it's just one of those "what ifs" =/
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208418
This is an outrage! I say we start our own medical school!
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Slight correction, a majority actually have multiple acceptances, but not by much. 47-48% only have one acceptance per AMCAS matriculation survey data the last 3 years.
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Agreed. It was a tough interview day knowing that my application was going to be considered at the very end of the cycle in the same pot as everyone else.
The only consolation I have for you people who interview later is to be the best you can be on interview day and hope that someone out there might give up their spot to fit you in
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Will applicants who interviewed in first cycles but waren't accepted still be considered as wait list candidate? I assume it is Yes
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Given the information that we have been provided, it seems like this would be the case, however, I'm curious if applicants from later dates will be considered first since they have not been reviewed by the admissions committee at all to this date
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I'm pretty sure they are looking at all of the aplicants that have interviewed whenever they are making decisions, as people from the first interview day were given acceptances during the second round of notifications. Now that reality has set in, we should all take a deep breath and go back to trusting the force. Fretting about who was considered/accepted over each of us isn't going to change what has already happened, and if any of us do get accepted it would probably be best not to start off our medical education with resenting our school. For those of us that don't get in, I hope you all have acceptances elsewhere. We will all be doctors if we really want it, and no matter where you go, you will learn how to be a good doctor if you keep remembering why you wanted this in the first place.
You're right, staying positive can only help, and in the end getting into med school is the goal. The process will never be perfect but you have to trust that it is as fair and legitimate as it possibly can be. No use getting caught up in the deep dark hole of endless speculation (I am particularly guilty of this).
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That might be a majority though? How many aplicants get zero acceptances?
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Around 45k apply, 19.5k get in when we talk about total number of applicants.
So those that get zero acceptances would be 45-19.5= 25.5k people.
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Well since it's the matriculant survey - zero...haha
https://www.aamc.org/download/474258/data/msq2016report.pdf
page 13
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Then I think around 5-7k of those are accepted to DO schools... which leaves about 20k who want to go to medical school, but get completely rejected... I know there is a reason most of those that don't perform well in undergrad don't get in, but I'm sure there is a significant portion of the 20k that would make just fine physicians.
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Like me.
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Or all the people that didn't know they wanted to be a Dr or who weren't mature enough early in their educational careers that they made mistakes that will haunt them basically forever. The fact that grades from 10+ years ago count towards your "character" or scholastic ability is totally ridiculous to me.
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They should count high school grades. That would probably help me out.
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Remain hopeful, Doc
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I don't think that's true. If you screw up early, you definitely shoot yourself in the foot but it isn't like your chances are zero. You just have to learn from the mistakes you've made and do well in your subsequent classes. Case in point: me. I failed the majority of classes I took in my freshman and sophomore year, and was required to withdraw from my original undergrad institution. Tbh my desire to be a doctor didn't sprout till 4-5 years ago, but if I had come to SDN at the end of my last semester in 2012 and ask for advice, everyone would have likely said I was screwed. But I just buckled down, and did decent from 2012-2015 (including a year of post bacc). My LizzyM total is 63, but is 71 if you were to only use my grades post 2012. I applied late, so only sent my secondaries into 3 schools. Got pre II rejected from Drexel, post II rejection from UW (nerves got the better of me in interview), and got accepted to WSU (killed the interview). I only say all this to make this point: if you are capable and want it badly enough, you'll likely get it. It'll just take unwavering resilience and sincere determination, characteristics that are required for success in medical school, crappy UG start or not.
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I was told if I had not been notified by today (3/13) of a status, I should call. I was told this about a week ago. Considering I did not get an acceptance call last week, I can determine I am likely WL or rejected.
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I never said anything about impossible; I'm a perfect example that it IS possible, but stats say that you (and I for that matter) are in the minority, and have greatly diminished chances which was my point. I worked my butt off to fix my mistakes from long ago (over 5 years of straight school to get my GPA to a reasonable level). The simple fact of the matter is - AMCAS gpa is very important, and my feelings are that a time limit on grades would be perfectly reasonable fix. TMDSAS is the perfect example.
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By who?
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Someone within the financial aid department.
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I officially declined my acceptance today. It was impossible to pass up at seat at UWSOM. Best of luck to all of you, I hope my place at ESFCOM goes to one of you!!
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Thanks for letting us know! And just for my own tabulation, do you mind sharing when you interviewed?
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January 13!
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Thank you!
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It makes me so anxious to see the Facebook page growing ... 44 members so far
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Some people automatically join before they commit to the school, or at least that's what I am telling myself
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I hope you're right.Some people automatically join before they commit to the school, or at least that's what I am telling myself
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I'm in the PNWU FB will the full intent on going any any of the three schools I'm still waiting to hear back from instead. So yeah that does happen
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True but probably keep in mind that WSU is an MD school and most people will probably choose that over a DO acceptance if they don't have any other MD school acceptances
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I'm pretty sure we all have that in mind
as most of us are in that same boat. I think we are holding out hope that UW picks enough of you guys off, or someone gets scared about the preliminary accreditation thing, or the nontraditional curriculum thing (hint, hint, these things are super scary).
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By the power of maths, 52.3% of matriculants to md had more than one acceptance to another md. My point was more just that people join the groups before actually being fully committed.
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And I also believe that this is one case where someone may consider going to an established osteopathic school over a new MD school just due to reputation. I could see someone taking an acceptance at PNWU over ESFCOM
No I did not
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Valid point. Especially for example is someone was debating places like Michigan DO - and depending on what speciality they want to go into.
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Agreed. It's important to note for applicants accepting their offers to ESFCOM that although they are not requiring any of their cohort to go into family medicine, it is a strong preference of the school and much of your experiences will be aimed at rural family medicine exposure.
B
bluelagoon 521
I wrote one and was accepted in the first batch, not sure if it helped or not, but maybe worth a try
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I submitted a letter of intent and have not been accepted yet.
Did you just write it to the wsuesfcom admissions email or did you write it to Leila?
