2017-2018 Mayo Clinic School of Medicine - Arizona Campus

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1) You are expected to go to school, but yes the lectures are recorded for later viewing. Illness/doctors appointments and other reasonable absence requests are accommodated, and frankly it's not like they do a roll call at the beginning of class or anything (though with our small class and professors who really do take a personal interest, they may notice).

2) If there is a patient in (or a patient-actor), we wear suits. If it's just a regular class, the dress code is not strict. I usually wear jeans and a t shirt, sweatshirt, or thermal. I probably wouldn't show up in sweatpants. People wear shorts (I think that technically is not allowed but alas...).

How long are you required to be in the classroom every day?

Also, where do people study individually? I didn’t really see any spaces set up for that apart from the few small conference rooms.

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions!

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How long are you required to be in the classroom every day?

Also, where do people study individually? I didn’t really see any spaces set up for that apart from the few small conference rooms.

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions!
People have different study habits, some people study at school, in the library, on the second floor of the JRB, at home, or at coffee shops.
 
1) You are expected to go to school, but yes the lectures are recorded for later viewing. Illness/doctors appointments and other reasonable absence requests are accommodated, and frankly it's not like they do a roll call at the beginning of class or anything (though with our small class and professors who really do take a personal interest, they may notice).

2) If there is a patient in (or a patient-actor), we wear suits. If it's just a regular class, the dress code is not strict. I usually wear jeans and a t shirt, sweatshirt, or thermal. I probably wouldn't show up in sweatpants. People wear shorts (I think that technically is not allowed but alas...).
That Mayo has such strong opinions about my body is a bit concerning. I at least understand the logic behind Mayo Wear: you dress up for all the rich patients in your hospital.

But no shorts during class? :(

Are there strong opinions about hairstyles and piercings? I’m a dude with my ears pierced in a few places. Would Mayo require me to remove those? Further, I often like to add small touches of color to my hair, such as a blue streak here or there. Does Mayo care, so long as I’m in a suit?
 
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That Mayo has such strong opinions about my body is a bit concerning. I at least understand the logic behind Mayo Wear: you dress up for all the rich patients in your hospital.

But no shorts during class? :(

Are there strong opinions about hairstyles and piercings? I’m a dude with my ears pierced in a few places. Would Mayo require me to remove those? Further, I often like to add small touches of color to my hair, such as a blue streak here or there. Does Mayo care, so long as I’m in a suit?
For better or worse it's a pretty conservative institution when it comes to dress etc. At the school we are expected to follow the same dress code as the rest of the Mayo enterprise, much like we would in a big corporate environment. In Arizona things are a bit more relaxed than they are at Rochester, but I don't have an answer in regard to the color in your hair. We have a couple of classmates who have piercings in the cartilage of their ears, but nobody has gauged ears or too much metal. We are also expected to cover up tattoos if possible. I'm sure that if you email Susan she can send you a copy of the dress and decorum policy for you to read.
 
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For better or worse it's a pretty conservative institution when it comes to dress etc. At the school we are expected to follow the same dress code as the rest of the Mayo enterprise, much like we would in a big corporate environment. In Arizona things are a bit more relaxed than they are at Rochester, but I don't have an answer in regard to the color in your hair. We have a couple of classmates who have piercings in the cartilage of their ears, but nobody has gauged ears or too much metal. We are also expected to cover up tattoos if possible. I'm sure that if you email Susan she can send you a copy of the dress and decorum policy for you to read.
I actually just found it, thanks! Men can have earrings, but “tasteful and work-appropriate”.

And yeah, medicine is just conservative in general! I knew that coming into this, but now that’s it’s happening I’m feeling a bit of resistance to its requirements!

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
That Mayo has such strong opinions about my body is a bit concerning. I at least understand the logic behind Mayo Wear: you dress up for all the rich patients in your hospital.

This is not the logic of it at all lol. The suit thing is in contrast to wearing dress clothes and a short white coat (like at literally every other medical school). There is no school or hospital wear physicians wear pajama pants and t shirts on rounds.

The other part of the logic is that at some point - whether it be residency, fellowship, or thereafter - you will need to begin dressing professionally for meetings and such. Why not start now rather than kicking it down the road 4 years?
 
I actually just found it, thanks! Men can have earrings, but “tasteful and work-appropriate”.

And yeah, medicine is just conservative in general! I knew that coming into this, but now that’s it’s happening I’m feeling a bit of resistance to its requirements!

Thanks for your thoughts.

If your name doesn't stand for Das Sound Machine from Pitch Perfect 2 I give up. Lmao
 
This is not the logic of it at all lol. The suit thing is in contrast to wearing dress clothes and a short white coat (like at literally every other medical school). There is no school or hospital wear physicians wear pajama pants and t shirts on rounds.

Yeah, Mayo Wear is couched in words of "showing greater respect for" patients, etc. I interpret it as a sign of respect to patients who, moreso on average than almost any other hospital, are rich as all hell. No other medical school or hospital eschews the white coat, and few, if any, other hospitals raise as much money. It's a phenomenal system and it makes sense that doctors look like investors.

And, I disagree. In many other places, doctors wear scrubs on rounds, and those are basically pajamas.

The other part of the logic is that at some point - whether it be residency, fellowship, or thereafter - you will need to begin dressing professionally for meetings and such. Why not start now rather than kicking it down the road 4 years?

It's not binary, whereby if I don't want to wear a suit all the time means I don't know how to dress myself up or don't want to do it frequently anyway. Dressing professionally vs "Wear a suit anytime a patient may have the chance of seeing you" feels different to me.
 
Yeah, Mayo Wear is couched in words of "showing greater respect for" patients, etc. I interpret it as a sign of respect to patients who, moreso on average than almost any other hospital, are rich as all hell. No other medical school or hospital eschews the white coat, and few, if any, other hospitals raise as much money. It's a phenomenal system and it makes sense that doctors look like investors.

And, I disagree. In many other places, doctors wear scrubs on rounds, and those are basically pajamas.



It's not binary, whereby if I don't want to wear a suit all the time means I don't know how to dress myself up or don't want to do it frequently anyway. Dressing professionally vs "Wear a suit anytime a patient may have the chance of seeing you" feels different to me.


What do you think other students wear under their white coats (in CLINIC, not in an OR obviously)?
 
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If your name doesn't stand for Das Sound Machine from Pitch Perfect 2 I give up. Lmao
haha I have _zero_ idea of what you're talking about. I could Google, but I'm not sure I care to investigate if you're complimenting me, insulting me, or doing something else altogether :)
 
Not a suit. Slacks and a button down shirt, often a tie.

So....wearing slacks, a button up, a tie, and a white coat versus wearing slacks, a button up, a tie, and a jacket?


The only difference I really see is that the former screams MEDICAL STUDENT down the halls and the latter doesn't.
 
So....wearing slacks, a button up, a tie, and a white coat versus wearing slacks, a button up, a tie, and a jacket?


The only difference I really see is that the former screams MEDICAL STUDENT down the halls and the latter doesn't.
An attitude that permits khakis and a button-down shirt with the top button undone and no tie feels much more permissive and relaxed than requiring me to be in a dry-cleaned suit and tie at all times.

I understand Mayo's logic about respect, but I personally prefer a more casual and relaxed attitude toward dress when it comes to being in front of patients. I feel elitist and less approachable in a suit.
 
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haha I have _zero_ idea of what you're talking about. I could Google, but I'm not sure I care to investigate if you're complimenting me, insulting me, or doing something else altogether :)

Haha I don't insult. I was mostly just nerding out because...I am a Nerd. Lol
 
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An attitude that permits khakis and a button-down shirt with the top button undone and no tie feels much more permissive and relaxed than requiring me to be in a dry-cleaned suit and tie at all times.

I understand Mayo's logic about respect, but I personally prefer a more casual and relaxed attitude toward dress when it comes to being in front of patients. I feel elitist and less approachable in a suit.

That's fine, and is a completely valid personal preference. As I said at all of the interviewee lunches - if the dress clothes are a major issue for you, you may want to consider attending school elsewhere. If you are more like me, and it is a minor annoyance that you get over once you are out of the house, then that's great and I hope to see you next year. It is a bit obnoxious to come on here and post that Mayo is "trying to make us all look like investors".

BTW, khahkis + jacket (or dress + jacket) are totally fine, doesn't need to be a 'dry cleaned suit at all times'. And I should reiterate because there is chronic misunderstanding of this - this is for patient activities ONLY; regular clothes are fine for class (just need to look presentable - I almost always wear jeans and t shirt).
 
That's fine, and is a completely valid personal preference. As I said at all of the interviewee lunches - if the dress clothes are a major issue for you, you may want to consider attending school elsewhere. If you are more like me, and it is a minor annoyance that you get over once you are out of the house, then that's great and I hope to see you next year. It is a bit obnoxious to come on here and post that Mayo is "trying to make us all look like investors".

BTW, khahkis + jacket (or dress + jacket) are totally fine, doesn't need to be a 'dry cleaned suit at all times'.
You’ve honestly been very combatant on this thread and it’s a little bothersome. He’s voicing his opinion, no need to call it obnoxious. It’s a concern that many others probably share, and bringing light to it might help them make a decision whether they care enough or not.


It’s important to keep in mind that the context of the suit jacket goes back to the 1800’s when most adults didn’t go about wearing jeans and a suit was a sign of respect. Nowadays, it has really become a white collar, elite outfit code and so it makes sense that you share those concerns. But I don’t think its done to serve rich patients, rather that it’s just a historical remnant that is maybe no longer necessary.
 
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That's fine, and is a completely valid personal preference. As I said at all of the interviewee lunches - if the dress clothes are a major issue for you, you may want to consider attending school elsewhere.

Mostly a preference for me, one I thought would be chill to chat about in an anonymous forum as I figure out where to go next year.

It is a bit obnoxious to come on here and post that Mayo is "trying to make us all look like investors".

It feels a bit disingenuous to put those very words in quotes because those are not the very words I typed. Certainly a similar sentiment implied, but I feel your tone is out of context considering I discussed Mayo's ability to fundraise (and then provide care and conduct research) as being "phenomenal". To be clear, I said, " It's a phenomenal system and it makes sense that doctors look like investors. "

I also don't appreciate being called obnoxious, but I guess I can't argue with how you feel about the words I've spoken. Sorry if my preferences offended you!
 
You’ve honestly been very combatant on this thread and it’s a little bothersome. He’s voicing his opinion, no need to call it obnoxious. It’s a concern that many others probably share, and bringing light to it might help them make a decision whether they care enough or not.


It’s important to keep in mind that the context of the suit jacket goes back to the 1800’s when most adults didn’t go about wearing jeans and a suit was a sign of respect. Nowadays, it has really become a white collar, elite outfit code and so it makes sense that you share those concerns. But I don’t think its done to serve rich patients, rather that it’s just a historical remnant that is maybe no longer necessary.

If the opinion expressed was "I'm not sure I want to be wearing a suit all of the time" or "It seems that Mayo is a bit caught up in an old tradition that may not really be needed in modern times" that would be very different than suggesting that we "dress up for our rich patients" and are trying to "look like investors". The former are opinions, the latter are insults.
 

I have a tattoo that cannot always be hidden. A number of professors, attendings, admin, etc. have asked about it and complimented me on it.

This is really the point of all of my above comments - Mayo really, truly is not this repressive place, they just want us to look nice when were taking care of people.
 
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If the opinion expressed was "I'm not sure I want to be wearing a suit all of the time" or "It seems that Mayo is a bit caught up in an old tradition that may not really be needed in modern times" that would be very different than suggesting that we "dress up for our rich patients" and are trying to "look like investors". The former are opinions, the latter are insults.
I’m not sure why you feel the need to get defensive? I don’t think anyone on the MN thread gets like this because there’s no reason to. It’s an online anonymous forum. You can tastefully respond without calling someone obnoxious.
 
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I have no dog in this fight (didn’t apply to AZ, waitlisted at MN), but I just wanted to add that Cleveland Clinic also has a dress code for its medical students. However, they provide long white coats to their students unlike Mayo which eschews white coats for suits. I guess the top hospitals believe that you should dress for success, which I’m totally onboard with.

I also wanted to say that the attitude of the some of the current Mayo students in this thread is a bit concerning. People are venting their frustrations with somewhat deceitful communications from Mayo to its applicants. I hope you guys are kinder in person.
 
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I come here for my daily dose of sodium cuz this thread has gotten SALTY.
 
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I’m not sure why you feel the need to get defensive? I don’t think anyone on the MN thread gets like this because there’s no reason to. It’s an online anonymous forum. You can tastefully respond without calling someone obnoxious.

I am really not trying to be defensive and I apologize for coming off that way. I don't want current and future applicants to see false things written on here and assume they are true.
 
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In terms of the dress code for women, it's pretty much the same as the men though we can get away with a little more. I've definitely gotten away with (and seen people get away with) black workout leggings, as well as jeans and any variety of t-shirts. When patients are here, I generally go with decent slacks, a business top and a blazer/dress cardigan or a dress and a blazer/dress cardigan, but I haven't gone full suit since the first day of orientation. Always flats because I frankly hurt myself in heels. No one has ever said anything to me about those standards. FWIW, a third year told me the old dress code was "show up in anything except sweatpants/pajamas" but people kept showing up in sweatpants and pajamas, so they made the code stricter (but as has been mentioned, they haven't made any motion enforce the things like no shorts and no workout clothes). When I've been at Mayo hospital, I tend towards slacks and blouse/dress and blazer/cardigan combo, and I've never been told I'm not dressy enough. When I'm at PCH or MIHS, I go more true business casual and everyone is fine. MIHS doctors I think would laugh if I showed up in my suit. Different hospitals, different cultures.

Honestly, the dumbest thing in the world that we mock constantly is that technically, all shoulders must be covered, because clearly my shoulders are just the height of disrespect. But again, those are just letters of the law. We've had active physician-lecturers give class in sleeveless dresses and most of the women I can think of have worn sleeveless tops of some sort at some time. What is written down, and what you will be told on the first or second day or orientation, is vastly different than what is actually enforced. Trust me, while we ish follow the dress code, we made it very well known then that we think certain parts of it are silly, especially when there won't be any patients. If you are super averse to ever wearing a suit for patient contact, though, Mayo-Rochester is not going to be the place for you. Mayo-AZ and Mayo-FL are much more relaxed about their physician dress. But part of the 'one campus' thing is a technically identical dress code in MN and AZ despite campus cultural differences.

As far as missing class, it is recorded if you're sick/at a conference/whatever. Some classes have 'highly suggested' attendance instead of mandatory, and you will see in your syllabus where attendance matters for your grade in the form of professor evaluations. I honestly don't mind it. Save one class so far and a could sporadic lectures, I've felt like attending class is very much a good use of my time. The professors and TAs are really good about putting things into clinically relevant context and helping you individually with your questions. If you are going to medical school thrilled about not having to go to class, either Mayo probably doesn't suit you. But as someone who didn't love that heading in, I've found it doesn't bother me nearly as much as I thought it would. Same with the dress code, honestly.
 
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Probably touched on earlier but what are the dates for second look?
 
I'd like to send them an update conveying my continued interests after the waitlist decision, but there is nothing extremely new about my application. This is my gap year and I work basic sciences. So far, I am a middle author on 2 papers (both under review, neither accepted) and am gearing up to submit my own work as a first author to a Cell/Nature/Science subsidiary (haven't submitted). I'd like to tell them this, as it is the only "new" thing about my application, but conventional SDN wisdom says it is worthless mentioning papers you have submitted but are not accepted yet. Thoughts?
 
I'd like to send them an update conveying my continued interests after the waitlist decision, but there is nothing extremely new about my application. This is my gap year and I work basic sciences. So far, I am a middle author on 2 papers (both under review, neither accepted) and am gearing up to submit my own work as a first author to a Cell/Nature/Science subsidiary (haven't submitted). I'd like to tell them this, as it is the only "new" thing about my application, but conventional SDN wisdom says it is worthless mentioning papers you have submitted but are not accepted yet. Thoughts?


More like SDN heresy. I would say post anything and everything to show them that the time you are on the waitlist will not be idle. Also shows that you are still interested and invested.
 
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Sorry to change the conversation, but I would like to know if anyone has any ideas about how Mayo would respond to a phone call to ask about how I can improve my application for next year? I am really curious about what things I can improve upon or any deficiencies in my application (MCAT score? Research experience? etc) I think that they may have mentioned being willing to talk about this on interview day, but I cannot remember for certain.
 
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Waitlisted here, but declining my spot. Hope it goes to one of you. Good luck!
 
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An attitude that permits khakis and a button-down shirt with the top button undone and no tie feels much more permissive and relaxed than requiring me to be in a dry-cleaned suit and tie at all times.

I understand Mayo's logic about respect, but I personally prefer a more casual and relaxed attitude toward dress when it comes to being in front of patients. I feel elitist and less approachable in a suit.

The way I see it is Mayo just really likes their traditions. It's almost like a constitution with what the founders wanted. They wanted it to be a physician led organization, which is why our CEO is always a physician. They wanted doctors to be salaried and not to be paid based on how many procedures they perform, which is how it still is. They believed that wearing your best clothes was a sign of respect to patients. In the OR, ED and labs you will still wear scrubs. The suit thing is really only for seeing patients in clinic. The dress code has changed over the years though, for example they recently loosened the policy to allow for visible tattoos (as long as they don't convey violence or explicit content). Also regarding dress code in class, I'm at the Rochester campus and even here nobody will say anything if you wear jeans or shorts or whatever to class (which most people do as long as it isn't a day when we are seeing patients).
 
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I'd like to send them an update conveying my continued interests after the waitlist decision, but there is nothing extremely new about my application. This is my gap year and I work basic sciences. So far, I am a middle author on 2 papers (both under review, neither accepted) and am gearing up to submit my own work as a first author to a Cell/Nature/Science subsidiary (haven't submitted). I'd like to tell them this, as it is the only "new" thing about my application, but conventional SDN wisdom says it is worthless mentioning papers you have submitted but are not accepted yet. Thoughts?

I say do it! Let them know what you've been up to and will be up to, and indicate continuing interest in attending. It won't hurt you.
 
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@ChrisMack390 Another new appointee here... what is a typical M1 schedule like? M-F 8-5pm? I know you can easily study all day/night, but are there any free afternoons during the week?
 
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@ChrisMack390 Another new appointee here... what is a typical M1 schedule like? M-F 8-5pm? I know you can easily study all day/night, but are there any free afternoons during the week?

Class/lecture is 8 or 9 to 12 more or less every day.

Afternoons are highly variable. We might practice our doctoring skills (patient interviews, physical exam, etc), or we might have "Disruptions in Development" which is a kind of psych- related class (not a psychology course but an exploration of psych issues that affect patients), or we might have nothing at all.

Generally, afternoon activities are front-loaded such that we have free afternoons when it's time to study for finals. They have also been reasonably cognizant of our class work load, for example by not scheduling much in the afternoon during our tough anatomy block.

We are about to start our micro/pharm block. Looking ahead at my calendar I see most weeks have just 1 required afternoon with 3-4 of them off to do our own thing. It was a bit busier at the beginning of the year (first block was pretty frequent afternoons) but has leveled off a lot since.
 
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Thanks for the detailed information about this! Definitely very useful.

Had a couple questions about selectives. So I know they give you 7 weeks vacation and that most students use that as dedicated step 1 time, but what about winter and spring breaks? I see that there are selectives scheduled during those times. Are we expected to do something medicine related during those times?

The selectives vary a bit year to year. Our class has 29 weeks of selective time during years 1 and 2. We must complete 15 selective weeks for credit, plus 2 weeks of "pre-made" selectives (OR skills and Step 1 study skills). That leaves 12 weeks of vacation/dedicated step studying. We don't have winter/spring/summer breaks scheduled, instead they are planned as selective time, and you get to choose when to take vacation time depending on what you have completed and what you want to use.
 
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Thanks for the detailed information about this! Definitely very useful.

Had a couple questions about selectives. So I know they give you 7 weeks vacation and that most students use that as dedicated step 1 time, but what about winter and spring breaks? I see that there are selectives scheduled during those times. Are we expected to do something medicine related during those times?

You can do something during the holiday weeks, but you can also count them toward vacation (its >7 weeks, more like 12 like Nak said). There are selective options than can be done remotely - for example I went home for Thanksgiving this year and completed a computer programming selective that just took a couple of hours online per day (probably like 8 hours total across the entire week). You can also set up your own selectives - some of my classmates have shadowed doctors in their home town, and in March I am going to volunteer at a homeless shelter I used to volunteer at back home.

I actually think its a good system, as you can take vacation for the holiday OR you can get credit for doing something while still going home to celebrate OR if you are someone who doesn't celebrate a particular holiday you can do something at the hospital that week.
 
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I'm another waitlisted person wondering what to do, if anything, as far as sending a letter. I sent a letter of (very strong) interest in January, and wouldn't say I have much concrete to add. I've been working and volunteering this whole year at the same places. Should I send another letter? Wait a bit? Any opinions?
 
Just booked my flights for second look, see some of you next month!
 
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Class/lecture is 8 or 9 to 12 more or less every day.

Afternoons are highly variable. We might practice our doctoring skills (patient interviews, physical exam, etc), or we might have "Disruptions in Development" which is a kind of psych- related class (not a psychology course but an exploration of psych issues that affect patients), or we might have nothing at all.

Generally, afternoon activities are front-loaded such that we have free afternoons when it's time to study for finals. They have also been reasonably cognizant of our class work load, for example by not scheduling much in the afternoon during our tough anatomy block.

We are about to start our micro/pharm block. Looking ahead at my calendar I see most weeks have just 1 required afternoon with 3-4 of them off to do our own thing. It was a but busier at the beginning of the year (first block was pretty frequent afternoons) but has leveled off a lot since.
Good to know! I appreciate the detailed response
 
Hi everyone! Mayo AZ MS1 here! There is a facebook page for accepted students in the works! That information will be sent out as soon as it is ready! In the meantime, feel free to make your own page if you so choose! I actually did that for our class last year and just transferred everyone to the new page once it was made!

In regards to dress code, yes you wear business professional when real or standardized patients are present. Sometimes multiple days a week, sometimes not for a while. At the end of the day, it’s something you just get used to. I have an aversion to business professional too and I am surviving so don’t fret- we will get through it together. <3 I was a leggings/tshirt fresh out of bed running to class kind of person during undergrad but alas, just need to throw on jeans instead of leggings or sweatpants now. Again, it’s a routine you will get use to. You will notice it less than you think and it will be a great bonding experience with your fellow classmates!

Just remember, AZ students are doing our best to work out whatever kinks we find so that it’s mostly smooth sailing for y’all #inauguralclassprobz ;)

Your concern over “highly ranked” letters and emails has been noted. Last year, I think we just collectively chose to take it with a grain of salt and humor. However, I can totally see how these communications could cause some distress and for that, I am very sorry. I will personally try to talk to some folks and see if changes could be made for the future. I can’t guarantee obviously - but I will try nonetheless!

For those of you accepted, congrats! We are sooooo excited to have MS2’s here next year! For those of you waitlisted, keeping my fingers crossed for you and good luck! For those of you who received rejections, I am very sorry. Having gone through this process last year and receiving 20+ rejections, I feel your pain - truly. But please do not be discouraged! I’m sure all of you are incredible candidates and you will flourish wherever you end up!

Feel free to keep posting questions!
 
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Oh and for waitlisted peeps, any updates on what you are up to are fine! I sent them an update that I had something submitted but not yet pubished and they were happy to hear about it!
 
Has anyone not received their decision email yet? Interviewed for both campuses in FL and worried they may have forgotten to consider me for both campuses? Only received decision for MN/FL program..
 
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