2020-2021 Tulane

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MedicalStudent2021 said:
I didn’t apply to Tulane but just discovered the Twitter thread and all the evidence Dr. Dennar included, it’s truly heartbreaking. At the same time, I’m so proud of each one of you folks that decided to withdraw their A/WL, it makes me very hopeful about the future of medicine. Kudos to all of you!
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I have to echo this. I have been following this story from the beginning. The issue that really got me was that they would not allow her to continue as head of PED/MED without a White male co-head. This entire situation is unacceptable. That said, I completely understand if this is your only A; you have to accept. But this is not over. Tulane's reputation is now mud.
 
This is absolutely awful to hear about! Does anyone know if there are similar issues in other departments or has anyone had any other similar experiences? This is bad enough I’m just wondering how widespread it is.
 
ozzieRus said:
Anyone else reading this all go down while knowing Tulane will most likely be the only acceptance? The inner turmoil is real, especially because this is my second year applying.
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Do what you need to do and there is no shame in attending TUSOM if it’s your only option! It aint easy getting to this point and this shouldn’t take away from your significant achievements.

Be informed on what is happening though and be part of the change that needs to happen in our generation of physicians by being an ally to your classmates and mentors at Tulane who are experiencing the things Dr. Dennar has experienced. The things happening at Tulane are happening because of active discrimination and also people letting it happen by being a bystander. Frankly, we need students to attend Tulane who recognize injustices and are willing to give a voice to them. Stand up for what is right and I think you can be very proud!
 
What Tulane did was terrible but unfortunately, this is not an isolated event in medicine and Tulane is on the hook because there are strong documents outlining their racist and quite frankly horrific procedure that ended in Dr. Dennar being fired. I can almost guarantee this happens across the board (just take a cursory look at how many program directors are female with far fewer being BiPOC) and systematic change needs to occur to challenge the status quo and hold those in power responsible. It's understandable that people are pissed off about this (as they rightly should be) but let's try to keep this thread on topic and professional. While it's commendable that many are withdrawing their interview invites or acceptances, ~50% of those who matriculate only receive one acceptance, so those that do end up at Tulane may do so because it was their only option (again, this happens across the board) or for other reasons, and we need people who are willing to challenge authority to end up at places like this and in academia to prevent similar sequelae elsewhere. You all are going to be fantastic doctors, Class of 2025 - I can't wait to see what you accomplish, where you end up, and how you work to enact change in your community and in the system at large.
 
badger008 said:
This is absolutely awful to hear about! Does anyone know if there are similar issues in other departments or has anyone had any other similar experiences? This is bad enough I’m just wondering how widespread it is.
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The issue here is that this isn’t department specific. The dean of the school of medicine, which has a lot of influence on the medical school itself, is implicated here. The is a culture issue and of course not everyone at Tulane is bad, but somewhere along the lines this was made acceptable.

I say this as a tulane alum, but it definitely ain’t a good look.
 
As someone with no Tulane affiliation but who’s personally been through a federal Title VII action, allow me to offer some thoughts:

1) This is a plaintiff’s complaint. It’s intended to be one sided and the facts contained inside have not been adjudicated. If this goes far enough, Tulane will have an opportunity to submit their own version of events that’s likely to be very different. But ever item in this complaint is merely an allegation at this point.

2) most telling: she does not mention the EEOC findings. When you file a Title VII complaint, the EEOC conducts an independent investigation and issues a decision. If they find evidence of discrimination, they may elect to prosecute themselves or issue their finding along with a right to sue letter. If they find no evidence of discrimination, they also issue a right to sue letter. She mentions the right to sue letter but not a word about EEOC’s findings which essentially means they found insufficient evidence of discrimination. This would have been a completely independent federal investigation and privy to both sides of the entire story.

3) she mentions 2 other investigations, one by acgme which did not find overt evidence of discrimination but did say it couldn’t be excluded simply based on the demographics of the IM vs Med/peds. She also mentions an independent law firm that investigated and found no evidence of discrimination. She offers no facts in her filing to contradict this finding.

4) the atlas tool she alleges as discriminatory for giving low scores to HBCUs is probably like most such tools and based on US News rankings where many of those school are ranked quite low. There are plenty of other medical schools ranking in a similar tier.

5) She and the IM PD clearly hate each other. Both programs sound like an administrative clusterfluff. However, this man who is allegedly a seething racist apparently also took not one but two of her residents of color to his own program! One was apparently in some hot water on the peds side of Med-peds and he took her in despite her recent performance issues.

So before anyone flips out, take a breath and realize this is but one side of what is surely a complex story. My above thoughts are based purely on her filing and colored by my own experience in a Title VII action.

I would definitely take this case into consideration if I were applying, but I would try and view it with a critical eye. I would seek out viewpoints from current students about their own experiences. I would surely press the school for a statement and some context. But I would avoid the urge to take a plaintiff’s intentionally slanted filing as gospel truth, especially when by her own admission and omission, 3 separate independent investigations (ACGME, NOLA Law Firm, and Federal EEOC) have found no evidence of racial discrimination.
 
Hold for possible interview today! Complete early August

Under review in November
 
Subs3825 said:
This is the equivalent of "I have black friends" ...

Edit: Not contesting your other points, but this sentence does not really work as a point.
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True. Were it the only point I would agree with you, but in truth it's about as strong an argument as most of Dennar's allegations in her formal complaint.
 
Do we think their class has filled? If not, when might it? I haven't seen any acceptances from them recently.
 
Nvrgiveup01 said:
If it was filled, I doubt it is anymore
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interesting point!! Do you think many people have withdrawn? I see that at least 10 people on SDN have withdrawn their application or acceptance, but I wonder if the overall applicant pool has been withdrawing their applications as well.
 
sk4589 said:
submitted on 9/12 and still not under review. Are they gonna get through all our apps?
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I am still trying to figure out how they go about choosing apps to review. Many people who have completed in October have been under review and some have even received IIs. Whereas there are some applications completed Aug-Sep still not under review. If anyone can speak to how they go about reviewing and sending out IIs, that would be great.
 
EngineerToDrBae said:
interesting point!! Do you think many people have withdrawn? I see that at least 10 people on SDN have withdrawn their application or acceptance, but I wonder if the overall applicant pool has been withdrawing their applications as well.
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I think a lot of people (both on SDN and not) have withdrawn their acceptance if they have As elsewhere.
 
Does anyone know the response of the school when they withdrew their acceptance, did people email the reason and did the school address it? Or did they not respond at all.
 
mandalorianpremed said:
Does anyone know the response of the school when they withdrew their acceptance, did people email the reason and did the school address it? Or did they not respond at all.
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I received an email back that essentially ended with “good luck with your medical career.”
 
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Nvrgiveup01 said:
Do you have the full email?
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D8169DF2-533F-455C-95E2-7BC589CA68AE.png
 
Nvrgiveup01 said:
I wish they would have acknowledged the issue at hand when students are withdrawing their apps for a serious reason
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I wished so as well, especially since I referenced the reason why. Kaiser, who I withdrew from as well, at least offered for me to speak with admissions or the assistant dean regarding the reason.
 
Nvrgiveup01 said:
I wish they would have acknowledged the issue at hand when students are withdrawing their apps for a serious reason
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President fitts put out a whole statement that barely acknowledged the allegations. I’m not surprised. I do wonder what would happen if someone brought it up in an interview.
 
do they screen pre or post secondary? sorry if discussed already..... also how holistic are they? low scores but 5 pubs / lots of research and clinical exp..... and outstanding LORs (4 from MDs, one being academic director of master's program...)
 
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crunchwrap said:
Do we think their class has filled? If not, when might it? I haven't seen any acceptances from them recently.
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Even if the class lost a couple of applicants I’m sure it won’t take them long to fill the spots again. I’m also planning on withdrawing but I think the amount of applicants withdrawing compared to the total applicant pool is low.
 
crunchwrap said:
Do we think their class has filled? If not, when might it? I haven't seen any acceptances from them recently.
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I don't think it's been filled. Judging by last year's thread, there were a couple waves of acceptances in February and March. There were also some in April so my guess would be April.
 
EngineerToDrBae said:
interesting point!! Do you think many people have withdrawn? I see that at least 10 people on SDN have withdrawn their application or acceptance, but I wonder if the overall applicant pool has been withdrawing their applications as well.
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I saw at least 20 premeds on twitter withdraw their apps/acceptances here
 
Have any people who interviewed in November/December called admissions and asked them what's going on? Their website says they strive to get post interview decision out 3-5 weeks after your interview, but we are going on roughly 9-12 weeks waiting now and they are giving out acceptances to interview dates that came after us. Don't know if thats a bad sign or if they just have a crazy post ii process
 
blackbearfox said:
Have any people who interviewed in November/December called admissions and asked them what's going on? Their website says they strive to get post interview decision out 3-5 weeks after your interview, but we are going on roughly 9-12 weeks waiting now and they are giving out acceptances to interview dates that came after us. Don't know if thats a bad sign or if they just have a crazy post ii process
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I keep telling myself that since no ones heard it’s not a bad thing. Hopefully we hear soon!
 
Lol complete 9/3 and just now got the under review email
 
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