2013-2014 Duke University Application Thread

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Ambitionista said:
Questions!

1) Can any current students comment on what the average day during your MS1 year is like? How long are you in lecture? Are lectures mandatory? Are they recorded? I read online that students rotate through writing "high quality notes" from lecture to share with the rest of the class. How often is each student expected to compile these notes?

2) Is there any PBL/TBL/CBL? Roughly how much? Do you enjoy the exercises and/or find them effective?

3) I see Duke is P/F. Is there internal ranking?
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1) Average day is whatever you make of it. Lots of stuff isn't required, so for the first 5 months of the curriculum, you could conceivably be going to class only a couple of times per week. For the last unit, there's no class every other monday and an exam on the other mondays. Some Tuesdays only have mandatory events from 10am-12pm. It really varies. You can send an email to Rdubbs for a pdf of our schedule and I'm sure he'd send it to you.

2) Yes. TBL is interspersed throughout our entire year, and heavily utilized during brain and behavior. I love my TBL group, so I find it really effective. Plus, my group members are all really smart and I learn a lot from them.

3) True P/F. 2nd year clinicals are typical Honors/HP, etc. AOA is based on 2nd year clinical grades.
 
When does duke give out merit scholarships? Duke is my first choice but Ive been offered a scholarship elsewhere and Id like to figure out if I have any chance of receiving one from Duke. Are scholarships given with the acceptance letter or sometime later in April?
 
mhoon1803 said:
When does duke give out merit scholarships? Duke is my first choice but Ive been offered a scholarship elsewhere and Id like to figure out if I have any chance of receiving one from Duke. Are scholarships given with the acceptance letter or sometime later in April?
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i was always under the impression that duke gave out the merit scholarships at the same time as the acceptances, but one of my friends heard later (re: scholarship offer). I think they might hand out a handful of scholarships, and then give these to other accepted applicants if the original accepted applicant decides to go elsewhere. i don't know for sure tho.
 
Hey, do current students have any idea how many are on the waitlist? Congrats to those accepted and good luck to those on the WL!
 
mhoon1803 said:
When does duke give out merit scholarships? Duke is my first choice but Ive been offered a scholarship elsewhere and Id like to figure out if I have any chance of receiving one from Duke. Are scholarships given with the acceptance letter or sometime later in April?
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A friend of mine who goes there told me we should hear about merit scholarships sometime before second look weekend. I'm right there with you hoping I get one!
 
I got my financial aid offer as well, and thankfully I'd end up taking $35k/year in loans. I was wondering if this was average or I should be happy with this amount? I don't have anything else to compare it to and don't understand if this was a good offer for my financial situation.
 
They talk about any merit aid yet or just need based?
 
1Sail0r said:
I got my financial aid offer as well, and thankfully I'd end up taking $35k/year in loans. I was wondering if this was average or I should be happy with this amount? I don't have anything else to compare it to and don't understand if this was a good offer for my financial situation.
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$48k/yr loans for me
 
1Sail0r said:
Hm. Thanks for the info. How do you feel about your situation? I wonder what's the maximum scholarship one can get from Duke not counting full rides.
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Hey, I sent you a private message
 
lalax said:
38k/year loan for me :S
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Had you guys sent in your W2/tax returns? I've sent them FASFA and Need Access but not the paper copies of these, and I haven't received my fin aid package. Wondering if they would hold to send it before getting those documents?
 
narf693 said:
Had you guys sent in your W2/tax returns? I've sent them FASFA and Need Access but not the paper copies of these, and I haven't received my fin aid package. Wondering if they would hold to send it before getting those documents?
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Yep, I sent scanned versions via email.
 
I think they're rolling out merit scholarship notifications about now - I just got a call this afternoon!
 
Just got a call regarding a merit scholarship!!!!
 
Congrats on the merit scholarship ppl. That's beyond awesome!
 
Anyone know why Duke has such a low step 2 average score (229)?
 
1Sail0r said:
How do merit scholarships affect financial aid?

And congrats @lalax !!
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It decreased my unsubsidized loan substantially (almost by 50%), but there might have been a mistake with my initial need-based award because the Financial Aid office emailed me correcting the initial award, so I'm not sure how much of the decrease was due to the merit scholarship or how much was due to the correction.
 
Hello! Does anyone have any insight into the Chapel Tower apartments? I'm moving across the country to start at Duke this August and I've found myself already set up for an apartment there, but I admit that I haven't even seen the apartments or know for sure if it's a good place. The price is definitely a plus for me though.
 
snowdisc said:
Hello! Does anyone have any insight into the Chapel Tower apartments? I'm moving across the country to start at Duke this August and I've found myself already set up for an apartment there, but I admit that I haven't even seen the apartments or know for sure if it's a good place. The price is definitely a plus for me though.
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talked to some med students a few days ago and heard chapel tower and esp. duke manor are pretty bad. I'm personally looking at either Poplar West or Campus Walk (both Trinity properties), both of which you can get for about 250-350/month if you get a 3 bedroom. Seems the pricey places are more popular with med students but I personally know some grad (not med) students who like it just fine, they don't have amenities and are ungated so don't get a first floor apartment but otherwise I've heard they are okay.
 
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Pidan said:
talked to some med students a few days ago and heard chapel tower and esp. duke manor are pretty bad. I'm personally looking at either Poplar West or Campus Walk (both Trinity properties), both of which you can get for about 250-350/month if you get a 3 bedroom. Seems the pricey places are more popular with med students but I personally know some grad (not med) students who like it just fine, they don't have amenities and are ungated so don't get a first floor apartment but otherwise I've heard they are okay.
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Great, thanks for the info!
 
snowdisc said:
Great, thanks for the info!
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I agree you definitely don't want to live at Duke Manor or Chapel Towers. It's been my experience with the apartments in Durham that if it's cheap there is probably a very good reason for it. Most of the apartment complexes have websites where you can look at floorplans and pictures of the area. Also if you plan on bringing a car, the farther you live from campus the cheaper housing becomes. I currently live in an apartment in Durham so I would be more than happy to help !
 
premed7007 said:
I agree you definitely don't want to live at Duke Manor or Chapel Towers. It's been my experience with the apartments in Durham that if it's cheap there is probably a very good reason for it. Most of the apartment complexes have websites where you can look at floorplans and pictures of the area. Also if you plan on bringing a car, the farther you live from campus the cheaper housing becomes. I currently live in an apartment in Durham so I would be more than happy to help !
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Wow, well thanks for the info! now I'm nervous about Chapel Towers. For me, the advantage of chapel towers is that it is walking distance to campus, and I can get a 550 sqft 1 bedroom for $560/month. I know that from where I am coming, this is absurdly cheap. I think being walking distance to campus would be a big plus, even though I will have a car. I'm hoping to keep it under $600/month, and looking at some of the other apartments near campus, I was finding prices closer to $1000+/month. Do you happen to know what in particular would be bad about these apartments? I feel like I just don't know what housing is like in Durham. Thanks!
 
snowdisc said:
Wow, well thanks for the info! now I'm nervous about Chapel Towers. For me, the advantage of chapel towers is that it is walking distance to campus, and I can get a 550 sqft 1 bedroom for $560/month. I know that from where I am coming, this is absurdly cheap. I think being walking distance to campus would be a big plus, even though I will have a car. I'm hoping to keep it under $600/month, and looking at some of the other apartments near campus, I was finding prices closer to $1000+/month. Do you happen to know what in particular would be bad about these apartments? I feel like I just don't know what housing is like in Durham. Thanks!
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I heard duke manor has cockroaches and thin walls and bad management, chapel towers I think just has break-ins and is generally very old. I generally feel very safe in Durham esp. on campus BUT there were like 2 break ins over the 4 months of summer last year when I was living in the Belmont which is gated (albeit basically anyone can get through the gate) so definitely try to avoid a first floor apartment if you are in an ungated community or close to the sides/front of a gated one (though i lived on the first floor in the Belmont and had no problems all summer). My only suggestion is poplar west, which I've been looking at this place ever since a current student put her's up on the google doc which I would assume means that med students do live there:

http://www.trinitypropertiesapartments.com/poplar-west.html

the studio is 405 sq ft for 550 a month if that seems okay with you. I think they are also putting up a google doc for finding roommates which can cut your prices way down. There's also student prices that you can find on this site:

http://www.nearduke.com/housing

Hope that helps.
 
Also check out the housing guide that Mr Wallace emailed out recently.
 
pyrrion89 said:
Also check out the housing guide that Mr Wallace emailed out recently.
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Wow, break-ins are not something I'm used to having to think about. And I never got a housing guide from Mr. Wallace! I should figure that out, thanks!
 
snowdisc said:
Wow, break-ins are not something I'm used to having to think about. And I never got a housing guide from Mr. Wallace! I should figure that out, thanks!
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Yeah, was surprised to hear a third of those complexes having burglary/theft problems. My dad will probably tell me to buy a gun. :laugh:
 
pyrrion89 said:
Anyone know why Duke has such a low step 2 average score (229)?
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Thought another thing was also very interesting:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/28/why-failing-med-students-dont-get-failing-grades/

Med student
Durham, NC 28 February 2013
While Dr. Chen is correct to suggest that many medical students aren't graduating with required competencies, she does not seriously address the many reason so many students lack them: medical entrance exams don't select for them, and medical schools, rather than inculcating compassion, tend to destroy it. Medical school selects for a hyper-competitive, grade obsessed, rat-race running student who can game the system well and memorize and regurgitate information. These qualities may have been helpful 50 years ago, but the makings of an insightful modern doctor they are not.

Additionally, medical school, in my experience at Duke, has been a soul-wasting drudgery in which older doctors routinely belittle students in front of their peers and meaningful learning experiences are hard to come by. Many of the requirements seem like a masochistic marathon designed to replace compassion with exhausted cynicism; 80 hour weeks are not necessary for students to learn the practice of medicine, but they continue because an older generation had to endure them and is committing to passing on the brutality.

Making good physicians has to start with attendings modeling compassion, humility, respect for patients and a team-oriented attitude. Additionally, medical schools must make serious efforts to admit creative, kind students who are up to the challenge of modern, team-based care and are not merely test-taking juggernauts.
 
pyrrion89 said:
Anyone know why Duke has such a low step 2 average score (229)?
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Duke students do their core rotations during second year. Many do not take step 2 until after submitting their applications for residencies so at that point doing well is not of the utmost importance. Needless to say, if you take a look at their match list, you will get the impression that students at Duke get to go wherever they want for residency.
 
hippocratic57 said:
Because Step 2 doesn't matter for residency application if you have a good step 1 score. In fact, many medical school students wait until after they have applied to residencies 4th year to take Step 2, even though they would score higher if they took it immediately after wards. The idea is that if you have a high step 1 score, the only thing doing step 2 before residency applications can do is hurt you (getting a high step 2 doesnt add anything to your residency app unless you bombed step 1). Basically Step 1 you study 2 months for, Step 2 you study 2 weeks for and just try to pass in 4th year.
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Presumably, what you are saying is true about Step II at every school. So if Duke's Step II average is lower than its peers (that also don't care about Step II except for passing), I think that is a concern.
 
Duke medical students take step 2 as explained (though their clerkships are done 2nd year). All things being equal, those who have recently finished their clerkships (medical schools who do clerkships 3rd year) will have an advantage because the information is 'fresh.' Step 2 does not matter as much -- and Duke students focus on research/ dual degrees/ global health during 3rd year while other medical students are rotating through clerkships. Again, if you look up the PD ratings for Duke medical students as well as their past match lists (especially this year's if you can get your hands on it) then this would not matter one bit (assuming that figure is correct). I would much rather put effort into research or into wherever my passions lie during my 3rd year than to focus on an exam that makes little difference to my future match (an exam usually taken after submission of residency applications). That's my personal take; you are free to disagree of course.
 
hippocratic57 said:
Because Step 2 doesn't matter for residency application if you have a good step 1 score. In fact, many medical school students wait until after they have applied to residencies 4th year to take Step 2, even though they would score higher if they took it immediately after wards. The idea is that if you have a high step 1 score, the only thing doing step 2 before residency applications can do is hurt you (getting a high step 2 doesnt add anything to your residency app unless you bombed step 1). Basically Step 1 you study 2 months for, Step 2 you study 2 weeks for and just try to pass in 4th year.
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i dont go to duke. but i will say that step2 is looked at for fellowship applications. 229 is below the national average and is appalling. don't blow it off. also taking it immediately after rotations and scoring higher sounds like it would be true but not necessarily.
 
hippocratic57 said:
This would be true if every school did equally well on Step 1. As I mentioned above, Duke historically does very, very well on Step 1, and thus fewer students have the motivation to study hard and score high on Step 2. At a school with lower step 1 scores, a higher step 2 score would be expected, as students must perform well to convince residencies that their low step 1 score was a fluke. In addition to studying more for step 2, the need to score well would also motivate them to take Step 2 closer to their clinical year, at an opportunity cost for elective rotation auditions, dual degrees, and research.
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With all due respect this does not sound good. Duke's peers have high Step 1 scores and higher Step 2 scores. Harvard, Yale etc. historically do well on Step 1 and better than Duke on Step 2. Why?
 
hippocratic57 said:
This would be true if every school did equally well on Step 1. As I mentioned above, Duke historically does very, very well on Step 1, and thus fewer students have the motivation to study hard and score high on Step 2. At a school with lower step 1 scores, a higher step 2 score would be expected, as students must perform well to convince residencies that their low step 1 score was a fluke. In addition to studying more for step 2, the need to score well would also motivate them to take Step 2 closer to their clinical year, at an opportunity cost for elective rotation auditions, dual degrees, and research.
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to start a war between my school and yours...my school has the top 1 or 2 step1 score every yr....and our step2 avg is way above 229.....so saying that doing well on step1 and students not being motivated is a poor excuse
 
jturkel said:
to start a war between my school and yours...my school has the top 1 or 2 step1 score every yr....and our step2 avg is way above 229.....so saying that doing well on step1 and students not being motivated is a poor excuse
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Looking at empirical data -- 5 students matched into neurosurgery from Duke this past year (one of the highest if not the highest number of students from a single school). The average step 2 score for neurosurgery is one of the highest at 240 (2011 match), hence a competitive specialty. What this implies is either Duke students can score well if they want to or that residencies prefer Duke students despite a lower score. Take your pick. (Also this is all based on the assumption that the step 2 score is as mentioned previously).
 
Nakazima said:
Looking at empirical data -- 5 students matched into neurosurgery from Duke this past year (one of the highest if not the highest number of students from a single school). The average step 2 score for neurosurgery is one of the highest at 240 (2011 match), hence a competitive specialty. What this implies is either Duke students can score well if they want to or that residencies prefer Duke students despite a lower score. Take your pick. (Also this is all based on the assumption that the step 2 score is as mentioned previously).
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I have no dog in this fight, but 5 students matching into a competitive, self selecting residency hardly counts as evidence against a low average of 100 students.

No one is disputing Duke's excellent residency placement. They're just worried about the low step 2 scores. I have no doubt Duke students can do well, but maybe there's some reason out there that they choose not to. Despite other schools averages, I don't think lack of motivation should be so easily ruled out.
 
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