For those on the waitlist, did you get confirmation when you sent in the form to hold your waitlist spot?
2013-2014 Weill Cornell Medical College Application Thread
- Thread starter JJMrK
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2008
- Messages
- 422
- Reaction score
- 77
I got an email confirmation back after emailing in the wait list response form.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2007
- Messages
- 5,072
- Reaction score
- 55
As someone mentioned, there's a bus that connects the campus. Some people take a year off and get an MBA at Cornell. We do have the option of doing a 6 week primary care elective there (with housing provided). That's about it.
Cornell NYC Tech campus is operational in NYC with its campus on Roosevelt Island just across the river from Weill campus http://tech.cornell.edu/. There are Computer Science/IT and MBA related graduate level classes being offered there. This is their first year of operation. The goal in the next few years is to have a robust cross disciplinary research with Weill and perhaps some biomedical sciences related coursework. Regardless, Weill does have strong graduate programs. There is a consortium that includes Cornell main campus that offers various classes and professors from main campus and vice versa lecture at either location based on the class. e.g. http://weill.cornell.edu/ctsc/training_and_education/ However, as a MD student it is difficult to find time to take additional classes. Research is doable though. If learning is the goal then there are tons of seminars/conferences etc.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2011
- Messages
- 190
- Reaction score
- 82
To be completely honest, there really is not a lot of collaboration among different disciplines. Sure, if you want to do research at Weill, you could do that. But, WCMC is pretty isolated in regards to collaborating with the tech campus or the main Ithaca campus. So, if you are looking for a med school with strong ties to different graduate departments, WCMC is not really going to do that for you.
What I meant was you want to take classes in disciplines other than medicine you could at the Cornell NYC Tech campus. One of the stated goals of NYC Tech campus is to increase collaboration with WCMC. At this time however NYC Tech offers Computer Science classes and one area of inquiry is simulation related to medicine/physiology etc. Also, as far as interaction between the two campuses is concerned look at this this class offered at main campus as an example, http://www.bme.cornell.edu/bme/academics/courses.cfm?s_id=343&sem=0 (BME 4110 Science and Technology Approaches to Problems in Human Health)
Over 50% of the class is taught by Weill faculty on main campus. Similarly, you have main campus faculty come and lecture at WCMC. Then there are the Frontiers in Biomedical Sciences I and II classes that are optional for the MD students http://weill.cornell.edu/mdphd/prog...ntiers+in+Biomedical+Sciences+I&type1=2Active. In addition there in MD/MPH with the MPH portion with Columbia and the MD/MBA with MBA at the main campus or being planned at Tech Campus as well.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2011
- Messages
- 190
- Reaction score
- 82
right okay, what i was trying to say is that WCMC does not really have strong ties to other graduate schools like some other top schools and mid-tier schools. Sure, there may be a MBA thing with the tech campus, but thats way down the road. I think Dr. Lyss got it right in saying there isnt too much interaction.
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2014
- Messages
- 3
- Reaction score
- 2
Hey current students, I have some questions for you regarding pre-clinical grading. I apologize if this has been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere on SDN -- I just want to get some current, accurate answers straight from the source. Is Cornell's pre-clinical curriculum pass/fail and (honestly, genuinely, seriously) unranked? Does the Dean's letter reference any form of pre-clinical class rank or class quartile?
And if Cornell is true pass/fail and no one (in the student body, in the administration, etc.) has access to our class rank, is AOA determined strictly by clinical grades?
Thanks, y'all.
And if Cornell is true pass/fail and no one (in the student body, in the administration, etc.) has access to our class rank, is AOA determined strictly by clinical grades?
Thanks, y'all.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2007
- Messages
- 5,072
- Reaction score
- 55
This is my understanding of it (anyone with more up to date knowledge feel free to correct this): we are pass/fail. The grades are only used later IF needed to "be a tie-breaker" for AOA and for class rank in your deans letter. Class rank, like every other medical school that ranks, is not a number but a describer/word that indicates what group you fell into. You never see a number or are directly compared with your peers. No students or faculty ever have an inkling of where you fall. Both AOA and class rank are heavily weighted by 3rd year grades but pre clinical grades are used with much less weight.
This is pretty standard for all schools, except schools like Yale that don't have any rank. My first year at WCMC we were H/P/F and we switched to P/F. I think it's been great and majority of students don't obsess about getting the highest scores on test or anything like that because the focus is on learning - and now that I'm almost done I can confidently say those grades are really not important. 3rd year grades are what matter.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2011
- Messages
- 2,036
- Reaction score
- 991
Mine was very generous compared to the other schools that got back to me today...
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 2,135
- Reaction score
- 1,729
Right, all scholarships are need-based. Dean Bardes told us so at the interview (something along the lines of this being the most fair way of scholarship distribution), and Weill Cornell's fin aid's web site says the same.
I'm actually a little annoyed that I haven't been able to get in touch with Cornell's fin aid office for the past 2 weeks, and I can't complete my fin aid paperwork without them answering some of my questions.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2011
- Messages
- 2,036
- Reaction score
- 991
Yep, like @Amygdarya said, financial aid is all need based and independent of the curriculum reform (since you do half of your clerkships during the second half of MS2 and the other half during the beginning of MS3).
Hmm that's weird. After you get your aid package, you have to sign a form that says you'll take all the financial aid that they offered to you and you have to email or fax it back to them. I emailed it back to them to the main financial aid address, and they sent confirmation that it was received. So they do check their emails...
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 2,135
- Reaction score
- 1,729
Now this makes me think they're ignoring my emails on purpose 😀
Or maybe my financial situation is so complicated, they don't know how to answer.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2011
- Messages
- 2,036
- Reaction score
- 991
Now this makes me think they're ignoring my emails on purpose 😀
Or maybe my financial situation is so complicated, they don't know how to answer.
Maybe you could try calling?
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2013
- Messages
- 286
- Reaction score
- 55
I thought you were international, no? 🙂 what other options do we have other than paying full tuition. Also, were you planning to attend second look? It would be nice to see other international students.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 2,135
- Reaction score
- 1,729
I'm a permanent resident which makes a whole lot of difference 🙂 As far as I understand, permanent residents are eligible for federal loans and school-specific need-based scholarships (unless there are some restrictions for certain funds, but these are an exception).
Otherwise, I'm perfectly international 🙂
Yes, I'm coming to the second look, so I'll see you there! Feel free to PM me if you like.
Yes, I should call them tomorrow (though I hate making personal calls from work).
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 2,135
- Reaction score
- 1,729
OK, scratch that, I got my fin aid package this week and was pleasantly surprised with both the speed of processing and the generosity of the scholarship. Not that I didn't like Cornell before, haha, but now it's ahead of the other schools I'm accepted to by a large margin 🙂 So looking forward to next Friday!
(I still have a ton of questions to Cornell students, but I need to sit in front of a computer to type them up.)
(I still have a ton of questions to Cornell students, but I need to sit in front of a computer to type them up.)
Anyone else attending revisit tomorrow? I am pretty excited!!!
Also, sorry I know this is silly to ask...I am pretty sure I read somewhere that dress is casual. Am I right? Are jeans a go?
Looking forward to meeting some of you tomorrow 🙂
Also, sorry I know this is silly to ask...I am pretty sure I read somewhere that dress is casual. Am I right? Are jeans a go?
Looking forward to meeting some of you tomorrow 🙂
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 2,135
- Reaction score
- 1,729
I certainly hope jeans are fine! (I developed an aversion to suits and any other kind of formal wear during the interview season.) In any case, if you wear jeans, there'll be at least two of us 😛
See you tomorrow!
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2011
- Messages
- 18
- Reaction score
- 15
So, how was second look?! Detailed report, plzz
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 2,135
- Reaction score
- 1,729
My biggest impression from the second look is how genuinely nice, interesting, mature, diverse, real and overall awesome current and accepted Weill Cornell students are 🙂 Seriously, I often caught myself thinking "I want to be friends with these people!"
Plus, Cornell students seem to be pretty tight both within their own class and between classes; I'm sure small class size and student housing contribute to that.
A particularly nice touch was an impromptu Sunday breakfast organized by MS1s in Olin hall. It was not on the schedule, but, see, they were so nice as to make some fried chicken and waffles and mimosas and invite us in 🙂
I was also quite impressed by how attentive and caring the administration was.
Speaking of which: not that I was left with a negative impression from my interview day (quite the contrary, one of my Cornell interviews is one of my all time favorites, haha), but Cornell definitely "sold" itself much better at the second look.
I didn't get to see much during my interview tour, but the tour I had at the second look was quite informative. I liked the facilities (kind of a mix of a modern - Macs abound - and a traditional Northeastern university feel, which is consistent with my overall impression of Cornell). Cornell's anatomy lab deserves a separate mention as the least smelly (i.e. best ventilated) anatomy lab of the ones I've visited.
What else? I don't remember hearing anything particularly important about the new curriculum; I think most of the important points were discussed by email. In any case, feel free to ask if you have any specific questions, they may jog my memory.
So, I enjoyed the second look quite a lot, and I'm about 99.999...% certain I'll matriculate here. I mean, I already knew about Cornell's affiliated hospitals, research, global health opportunities etc. before the second look (+ it's in NYC which I love!), I just wanted to see what the students were like and whether I would fit in with them, and it seems like Cornell is a perfect fit for me 🙂
Plus, Cornell students seem to be pretty tight both within their own class and between classes; I'm sure small class size and student housing contribute to that.
A particularly nice touch was an impromptu Sunday breakfast organized by MS1s in Olin hall. It was not on the schedule, but, see, they were so nice as to make some fried chicken and waffles and mimosas and invite us in 🙂
I was also quite impressed by how attentive and caring the administration was.
Speaking of which: not that I was left with a negative impression from my interview day (quite the contrary, one of my Cornell interviews is one of my all time favorites, haha), but Cornell definitely "sold" itself much better at the second look.
I didn't get to see much during my interview tour, but the tour I had at the second look was quite informative. I liked the facilities (kind of a mix of a modern - Macs abound - and a traditional Northeastern university feel, which is consistent with my overall impression of Cornell). Cornell's anatomy lab deserves a separate mention as the least smelly (i.e. best ventilated) anatomy lab of the ones I've visited.
What else? I don't remember hearing anything particularly important about the new curriculum; I think most of the important points were discussed by email. In any case, feel free to ask if you have any specific questions, they may jog my memory.
So, I enjoyed the second look quite a lot, and I'm about 99.999...% certain I'll matriculate here. I mean, I already knew about Cornell's affiliated hospitals, research, global health opportunities etc. before the second look (+ it's in NYC which I love!), I just wanted to see what the students were like and whether I would fit in with them, and it seems like Cornell is a perfect fit for me 🙂
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2013
- Messages
- 253
- Reaction score
- 295
@Amygdarya Thanks for reminding me that our impression was asked. I had this draft sitting so I'm going to finish it and post it below:
Hey @nyctranslocus I'll give you my account.
I arrived in the afternoon on Friday and was greeted by members of the Admissions Office. They handed us a folder with information about the day and school and we were handed a gift wrapped in cellophane. (Trying to provide the detailed report 🙂) I heard it's a beverage container but I haven't opened mine yet; it's too prettily wrapped.
I didn't attend the financial aid session so maybe someone else can chime in on that. However, I was there for the Mock PBL Session led by a couple of students. I found it fun: we were handed a few paragraphs about the patient, information from the tests ordered, X-rays, etc. It was engaging. It was rather straightforward (thankfully as we haven't actually started med school yet 😛) but I can see how it allows you to work your way through your knowledge base to solve the patient's issue. (Our leaders discussed how they're usually more complex and sometimes, it doesn't always end so well for the patient). Thing is, we're going to be the first ones up with the new curriculum so they were not really certain how things will evolve for us.
We had toured the facilities again. We were told that they're updating the classrooms in time for our arrival. I found this online that gives a little more information about it. I am looking forward to it, I like shiny new things. We went to Olin Hall. I think I'm warming up to the idea of living in a dorm again (after 4 years outside of one). They're all singles and you share a bathroom (so no more communal...). It can be nice having a group to rally with as you tackle that which is med school but the shared kitchen situation is still weird. Our guides who lived in the hall mentioned that you're allowed to have a mini fridge in your room which you can make the most of and that things can go missing so you still transports pots and pans from your room to the kitchen.
The food budget is also $530/month so one (read: I) can literally live off Chipotle burritos 2x a day (at $8.50 after tax for the sofritas, chicken or veggie) and still have $20 left over for a breakfast of cereal with milk.
We attended the Diversity Panel (which I found informative) and the Welcome Reception and Dinner (which I found scrumptious), sipped wine at the Students for Equal Opportunity in Medicine Mixer, listened to awesome acapellas and piano solos by the Music and Medicine Program students and went out for drinks at a bar not too far away. We had a back room with its own bar and I got to dance and chat with all the amazing students I hope to be my classmates. The students are incredibly laid back. They are in NYC and they actually take advantage of it. I couldn't understand how it was the weekend and they had time to not do work. Clearly my idea of medical school as a detention facility you pay for is off.
Saturday was a continental breakfast and discussion of international opportunities but I can't wake up that early yet so once again, you'll need someone else to join in. I was excited to hear the medical education talk given by Dean Storey-Johnson. They're constantly working on it. It seems they're moving towards a curriculum where attendance will be mandatory as it's all very interactive but I have no idea; it's not fully formed yet. There will be two main courses for the preclinical years. You'll get be able to know how you're doing during the course based on quizzes, etc. but it seems like you'll be getting a final grade at the end. I think for the purposes of a transcript, it'll have to be broken up more than that and so I'm still as in the dark as you are.
However, what I do know is we're supposed to get our 'panel of patients' through the LEAP program where we'll follow them over the next 4 years. And though the shortened curriculum will have to increase class time, they understand that a big part of their school's great atmosphere was that classes ended around 1pm so it is believed that there will be at most 2 days of scheduled afternoon times. And when they showed a sample schedule, it was anatomy lab for those days. (Which sure as hell beats an afternoon of lecture and just plain make sense). There will be Areas of Concentration that they haven't yet listed but you can make your own. There is a Scholarly Project that's about 6-9 months that you have freedom in deciding upon. Like Amygdara mentioned, we don't know much.
Which is killing me. I just want to hold the course catalog.
There was student panel with current students that I found pretty cool for gauging atmosphere and opportunities. Then it was the Anatomy lab with the world's most hilarious Professor. He kept showing photos of students taking the exam and pointing out how happy and relaxed they were. They did have really great ventilation. A joint delicious lunch and activities fair was next up. There was an alumni panel which was great: they were amazing. Really happy about how Cornell prepared them for their career. One guy had a small complaint but I can't actually remember what is it so...
There were afternoon activities you could choose from. I went with the Central Park Games (sat in the grass while others played football/frisbee) but there was also LGBT and NonTrad Mixers. Or a trip to the Met. Dinner was scrumptious, that chocolate tiramisu-style dessert was mouthwatering. It was in a faculty lounge?
Then it was a night out in NYC where you could choose a Comedy Club or the Ride. I actually went with the latter and it's a bus that tours Times Square. I found the hosts hilarious. You face the windows, which is actually one Giant window...I'm not doing it justice.
We ended the revisit at another Lounge Session where I had 2 free drinks, ate the appetizers they provided and excited that these students could be my classmates. I mean, these guys were awesome. I thought I'd only meet kids who a. wanted Cornell only for research or b. wanted Cornell just for the chance to be in NYC which are both fine but could make for a dull winterchill but nooooo, they are passionate, and talented, and funny.
I'm also over 95% I'll attend.
The one downer was a current student I met who kept degrading other schools in the city (I guess that's one sense of school pride but it was kind of vitriolic). But that student won't be in our class. 🙂
Hope that helps.
Hey @nyctranslocus I'll give you my account.
I arrived in the afternoon on Friday and was greeted by members of the Admissions Office. They handed us a folder with information about the day and school and we were handed a gift wrapped in cellophane. (Trying to provide the detailed report 🙂) I heard it's a beverage container but I haven't opened mine yet; it's too prettily wrapped.
I didn't attend the financial aid session so maybe someone else can chime in on that. However, I was there for the Mock PBL Session led by a couple of students. I found it fun: we were handed a few paragraphs about the patient, information from the tests ordered, X-rays, etc. It was engaging. It was rather straightforward (thankfully as we haven't actually started med school yet 😛) but I can see how it allows you to work your way through your knowledge base to solve the patient's issue. (Our leaders discussed how they're usually more complex and sometimes, it doesn't always end so well for the patient). Thing is, we're going to be the first ones up with the new curriculum so they were not really certain how things will evolve for us.
We had toured the facilities again. We were told that they're updating the classrooms in time for our arrival. I found this online that gives a little more information about it. I am looking forward to it, I like shiny new things. We went to Olin Hall. I think I'm warming up to the idea of living in a dorm again (after 4 years outside of one). They're all singles and you share a bathroom (so no more communal...). It can be nice having a group to rally with as you tackle that which is med school but the shared kitchen situation is still weird. Our guides who lived in the hall mentioned that you're allowed to have a mini fridge in your room which you can make the most of and that things can go missing so you still transports pots and pans from your room to the kitchen.
The food budget is also $530/month so one (read: I) can literally live off Chipotle burritos 2x a day (at $8.50 after tax for the sofritas, chicken or veggie) and still have $20 left over for a breakfast of cereal with milk.
We attended the Diversity Panel (which I found informative) and the Welcome Reception and Dinner (which I found scrumptious), sipped wine at the Students for Equal Opportunity in Medicine Mixer, listened to awesome acapellas and piano solos by the Music and Medicine Program students and went out for drinks at a bar not too far away. We had a back room with its own bar and I got to dance and chat with all the amazing students I hope to be my classmates. The students are incredibly laid back. They are in NYC and they actually take advantage of it. I couldn't understand how it was the weekend and they had time to not do work. Clearly my idea of medical school as a detention facility you pay for is off.
Saturday was a continental breakfast and discussion of international opportunities but I can't wake up that early yet so once again, you'll need someone else to join in. I was excited to hear the medical education talk given by Dean Storey-Johnson. They're constantly working on it. It seems they're moving towards a curriculum where attendance will be mandatory as it's all very interactive but I have no idea; it's not fully formed yet. There will be two main courses for the preclinical years. You'll get be able to know how you're doing during the course based on quizzes, etc. but it seems like you'll be getting a final grade at the end. I think for the purposes of a transcript, it'll have to be broken up more than that and so I'm still as in the dark as you are.
However, what I do know is we're supposed to get our 'panel of patients' through the LEAP program where we'll follow them over the next 4 years. And though the shortened curriculum will have to increase class time, they understand that a big part of their school's great atmosphere was that classes ended around 1pm so it is believed that there will be at most 2 days of scheduled afternoon times. And when they showed a sample schedule, it was anatomy lab for those days. (Which sure as hell beats an afternoon of lecture and just plain make sense). There will be Areas of Concentration that they haven't yet listed but you can make your own. There is a Scholarly Project that's about 6-9 months that you have freedom in deciding upon. Like Amygdara mentioned, we don't know much.
Which is killing me. I just want to hold the course catalog.
There was student panel with current students that I found pretty cool for gauging atmosphere and opportunities. Then it was the Anatomy lab with the world's most hilarious Professor. He kept showing photos of students taking the exam and pointing out how happy and relaxed they were. They did have really great ventilation. A joint delicious lunch and activities fair was next up. There was an alumni panel which was great: they were amazing. Really happy about how Cornell prepared them for their career. One guy had a small complaint but I can't actually remember what is it so...
There were afternoon activities you could choose from. I went with the Central Park Games (sat in the grass while others played football/frisbee) but there was also LGBT and NonTrad Mixers. Or a trip to the Met. Dinner was scrumptious, that chocolate tiramisu-style dessert was mouthwatering. It was in a faculty lounge?
Then it was a night out in NYC where you could choose a Comedy Club or the Ride. I actually went with the latter and it's a bus that tours Times Square. I found the hosts hilarious. You face the windows, which is actually one Giant window...I'm not doing it justice.
We ended the revisit at another Lounge Session where I had 2 free drinks, ate the appetizers they provided and excited that these students could be my classmates. I mean, these guys were awesome. I thought I'd only meet kids who a. wanted Cornell only for research or b. wanted Cornell just for the chance to be in NYC which are both fine but could make for a dull winterchill but nooooo, they are passionate, and talented, and funny.
I'm also over 95% I'll attend.
The one downer was a current student I met who kept degrading other schools in the city (I guess that's one sense of school pride but it was kind of vitriolic). But that student won't be in our class. 🙂
Hope that helps.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 2,135
- Reaction score
- 1,729
I'd like to comment on some of what @winterchill wrote:
PBL: I'd had mock PBL sessions at other schools, but I enjoyed this one the most, probably because it actually had something to do with medicine, unlike the other mock sessions which were on ethics/professionalism issues.
Re PBL in the new curriculum: Cornell is moving from 3 PBL sessions a week to 2 PBL sessions a week, which, based on what I've heard from current medical students at several PBL-heavy schools, is quite enough to discuss and wrap up a case.
In any case, I've heard comments from current students along the lines of "don't worry about cooking, you won't be doing a lot of it anyway". That said, it was mentioned that each floor had "foodies" who did cook regularly. So, my impression is, those who want/like to cook manage to do that in the communal kitchens; those who don't simply don't bother. Food carts were mentioned as a source of cheap ($5) hearty lunch. That's NYC for you 🙂
This much is clear:
- the schedule in the first semester will be more dense (2 afternoons a week of labs and such, as opposed to all afternoons free or only 1 afternoon of classes a week as it used to be) because it will have all basic science and, notably, anatomy (so, those 2 afternoons a week will pretty much be anatomy labs as winterchill mentioned);
- the schedule in the next 2 semesters (integrated organ systems) will be pretty much like the schedule of the current Cornell MS2 with most afternoons free;
- I know that currently Cornell MS1 and MS2 have 1 (half?)day/week of clinical preceptorship; it was not explicitly mentioned in the talk but I remember seeing 1 half-day/week of preceptorship in an example 1st semester schedule, so I guess the preceptorship stays;
- clinical years: not that many details as of yet, but the 1st clinical year will have all core rotations (including 2 weeks of public health and I don't remember how long for palliative care, which are specific to Cornell) + you schedule your own time to prepare and take Step 1 (they allow 6-7 weeks for preparation, depending on the schedule); core rotations will be shortened to exclude electives that are now part of core rotations, which is actually a good thing because we'll have more time to take our own electives after we're done with core rotations; the rest of the time (1.5 years) is electives, Step 2, residency interviews, dedicated research time (6-9 months); my impression is, the idea is to give students more flexibility in choosing what they want/need to prepare their best residency application;
- grading: everything is p/f except for core rotations (h/hp/p/f); however, my impression is that Cornell does rank internally even though there are no grades - my suspicion is corroborated by the current student handbook and by the fact that Dean Storey-Johnson kind of dodged the question of whether students would be ranked 🙂
- testing: if I understand it correctly, there are quizzes pretty much every week (on Mondays during the basic science segment, so you can study all weekend - I guess this will come handy for anatomy - and on Fridays during the integrated systems-based part, so you can enjoy your weekends); on top of quizzes, there are "triple jumps" at the end of each block: first, you receive a PBL-like case and some questions about it (your diagnosis/differential etc.) and you have 1 hour to write your responses, second, after you turn in your responses, on your way out you receive the answers to the case and some additional questions about pathophysiology etc. which you take home and prepare for using any materials you have, finally, you come in next day and discuss your written responses with a faculty member (here is your chance to explain your reasoning if you got the first part wrong). I may be a masochist 😛 but I kind of like this 2-tier examination structure: on the one hand, you test what you remember (quizzes), on the other hand, you're learning clinical thinking (triple jump).
I'm not 100% sure this will work exactly the same for us, but for current students there is a single grade (p/f) at the end of each course, so one can, say, fail a quiz or a triple jump (apparently, this has happened) but still pass the class as a whole.
- on mandatory attendance: I'm not sure exactly how mandatory the attendance will be, but Dean Storey-Johnson did mention that they liked to see students in class; the idea behind this is, the practice of medicine is very interactive and is nothing like sitting in your room/library studying, so they encourage student-faculty communication etc. For us, they're introducing a "flipped classroom" where we'll have to watch video lectures at home *before* coming to class to discuss the material with faculty and other students.
I went to the Non-Trad Mixer, which ended up being combined with the LGBT mixer. We had a good time chatting and drinking beer in the Olin hall patio. As I mentioned above, the main reason I went to the second look was to meet the current and the accepted students, so I took advantage of the opportunities to socialize.
Financial aid session: I don't remember anything in particular except we had a chance to approach Ms. Walker with our individual questions. If you have any fin aid questions, call their office.
PBL: I'd had mock PBL sessions at other schools, but I enjoyed this one the most, probably because it actually had something to do with medicine, unlike the other mock sessions which were on ethics/professionalism issues.
Re PBL in the new curriculum: Cornell is moving from 3 PBL sessions a week to 2 PBL sessions a week, which, based on what I've heard from current medical students at several PBL-heavy schools, is quite enough to discuss and wrap up a case.
I wonder if we can have microwaves in our rooms as well? Electric kettles?
In any case, I've heard comments from current students along the lines of "don't worry about cooking, you won't be doing a lot of it anyway". That said, it was mentioned that each floor had "foodies" who did cook regularly. So, my impression is, those who want/like to cook manage to do that in the communal kitchens; those who don't simply don't bother. Food carts were mentioned as a source of cheap ($5) hearty lunch. That's NYC for you 🙂
Global health activities are highly encouraged - and funded! - at Weill. At the breakfast, we had 2 students talk about their global health experiences. Both of them first did the summer between MS1 and MS2 and then ended up doing a whole year of global health research. It seems like taking a year allows you to develop a decent research project, so you can kill two birds with one stone (global health + research).
It is my impression as well that the new curriculum is still work in progress.
This much is clear:
- the schedule in the first semester will be more dense (2 afternoons a week of labs and such, as opposed to all afternoons free or only 1 afternoon of classes a week as it used to be) because it will have all basic science and, notably, anatomy (so, those 2 afternoons a week will pretty much be anatomy labs as winterchill mentioned);
- the schedule in the next 2 semesters (integrated organ systems) will be pretty much like the schedule of the current Cornell MS2 with most afternoons free;
- I know that currently Cornell MS1 and MS2 have 1 (half?)day/week of clinical preceptorship; it was not explicitly mentioned in the talk but I remember seeing 1 half-day/week of preceptorship in an example 1st semester schedule, so I guess the preceptorship stays;
- clinical years: not that many details as of yet, but the 1st clinical year will have all core rotations (including 2 weeks of public health and I don't remember how long for palliative care, which are specific to Cornell) + you schedule your own time to prepare and take Step 1 (they allow 6-7 weeks for preparation, depending on the schedule); core rotations will be shortened to exclude electives that are now part of core rotations, which is actually a good thing because we'll have more time to take our own electives after we're done with core rotations; the rest of the time (1.5 years) is electives, Step 2, residency interviews, dedicated research time (6-9 months); my impression is, the idea is to give students more flexibility in choosing what they want/need to prepare their best residency application;
- grading: everything is p/f except for core rotations (h/hp/p/f); however, my impression is that Cornell does rank internally even though there are no grades - my suspicion is corroborated by the current student handbook and by the fact that Dean Storey-Johnson kind of dodged the question of whether students would be ranked 🙂
- testing: if I understand it correctly, there are quizzes pretty much every week (on Mondays during the basic science segment, so you can study all weekend - I guess this will come handy for anatomy - and on Fridays during the integrated systems-based part, so you can enjoy your weekends); on top of quizzes, there are "triple jumps" at the end of each block: first, you receive a PBL-like case and some questions about it (your diagnosis/differential etc.) and you have 1 hour to write your responses, second, after you turn in your responses, on your way out you receive the answers to the case and some additional questions about pathophysiology etc. which you take home and prepare for using any materials you have, finally, you come in next day and discuss your written responses with a faculty member (here is your chance to explain your reasoning if you got the first part wrong). I may be a masochist 😛 but I kind of like this 2-tier examination structure: on the one hand, you test what you remember (quizzes), on the other hand, you're learning clinical thinking (triple jump).
I'm not 100% sure this will work exactly the same for us, but for current students there is a single grade (p/f) at the end of each course, so one can, say, fail a quiz or a triple jump (apparently, this has happened) but still pass the class as a whole.
- on mandatory attendance: I'm not sure exactly how mandatory the attendance will be, but Dean Storey-Johnson did mention that they liked to see students in class; the idea behind this is, the practice of medicine is very interactive and is nothing like sitting in your room/library studying, so they encourage student-faculty communication etc. For us, they're introducing a "flipped classroom" where we'll have to watch video lectures at home *before* coming to class to discuss the material with faculty and other students.
I remember one complaint that was mentioned during the student, not the alumni panel: that Weill Cornell is a relatively small school that's separate from its main campus, so it doesn't have big campus facilities like a pool (though I vaguely remember one of the students mentioned using a pool somewhere in the city...) and a student health center with a lot of staff (it's pretty much staffed by a single family doc).
Yep, both dinners were at the faculty lounge and were delicious! 🙂
I went to the Non-Trad Mixer, which ended up being combined with the LGBT mixer. We had a good time chatting and drinking beer in the Olin hall patio. As I mentioned above, the main reason I went to the second look was to meet the current and the accepted students, so I took advantage of the opportunities to socialize.
My tour guide (an MS4) briefly - and sort of tongue-in-cheek - mentioned that, unlike Columbia (as well as Sinai and Einstein), Weill Cornell has level 1 trauma affiliated hospitals (NYP-Cornell and Lincoln Memorial in the Bronx). To be fair, he mentioned that NYU also has level 1 trauma. He didn't really dwell on it or degrade the other schools in any way and actually was very professional in his behavior, so I assume he's not the student you're talking about.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2013
- Messages
- 253
- Reaction score
- 295
@Amygdarya Wow Amygdara! I attended the Second Look and I still came out learning 2x as much from your post! I am even more excited!
And no, that was most certainly not the same person. You'd know, ha.
And no, that was most certainly not the same person. You'd know, ha.
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2012
- Messages
- 142
- Reaction score
- 12
I did not mean to remove this post. Sorry bout that.
First I said: nice posts @Amygdarya and @winterchill.
Then I asked about when we would be able to move in to student housing.
Thanks.
First I said: nice posts @Amygdarya and @winterchill.
Then I asked about when we would be able to move in to student housing.
Thanks.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 2,135
- Reaction score
- 1,729
???
I don't know why you removed your post, but FYI those who are subscribed to the thread have it in their email notifications anyway 🙂
In any case, I have the same question you do 🙂
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2013
- Messages
- 253
- Reaction score
- 295
I believe you tagged me @chem4ever but you removed the question and I disabled post notifications in my email.
I'm dying to know what you said.
My death on your hands. 😛
I'm dying to know what you said.
My death on your hands. 😛
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2012
- Messages
- 142
- Reaction score
- 12
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2013
- Messages
- 253
- Reaction score
- 295
@chem4ever Haha. That's not what I imagined considering it was deleted. I thought it was more like, "So who was single?" 😛
I wonder too. Orientation begins Aug. 18th, pre-orientation beings the 15th (outdoor experience called cAMP) so maybe a few days before then?
I wonder too. Orientation begins Aug. 18th, pre-orientation beings the 15th (outdoor experience called cAMP) so maybe a few days before then?
About the scholarly project period after the major clinical year... How are they exactly fitting in 6-9 months of research time into half of M3 and M4? Did they say?
Most schools that have a 1.5 year condensed curriculum give about 4 months for research because that's as much as time allows (given that clerkships end in December of M3 and January and February are used for Step 1 prep, so students start doing stuff in March, giving them 14 months for away rotations, electives, residency interviews, graduation requirements, etc).
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 2,135
- Reaction score
- 1,729
As far as I understand:
1. We'll take Step 1 during the first clinical year, not after it + we were told that core clinical rotations would be shortened to allow more time for early electives (though the details of this are still murky, I wish I knew how long each core rotation would be) = by December, we'll be done with core rotations, Step 1 and even some electives.
2. You can schedule research any time in the last 1.5 years, it doesn't have to be right after the main clinical year (though it makes sense that it does).
3. The last 1.5 years are for Step 2, research, interviews and electives (including international electives).
1. We'll take Step 1 during the first clinical year, not after it + we were told that core clinical rotations would be shortened to allow more time for early electives (though the details of this are still murky, I wish I knew how long each core rotation would be) = by December, we'll be done with core rotations, Step 1 and even some electives.
2. You can schedule research any time in the last 1.5 years, it doesn't have to be right after the main clinical year (though it makes sense that it does).
3. The last 1.5 years are for Step 2, research, interviews and electives (including international electives).
Thank you! So just to clarify, some rotations like the surgery rotation would be 10 weeks instead of 12 (just as an example), and we'd finish our rotation in mid-November? Ouch studying during Thanksgiving and Christmas...
So I'm seeing how 6 months is plausible now, but how do you get to 9 months? I'm assuming the extras 3 months would be used as elective credit or something? I really wish they would have more of this planned out already... It's hard going into something when barely anything seems to have been worked out and they're implementing it in the next couple months...
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 2,135
- Reaction score
- 1,729
1. Yes, something like this. Currently, surgery is 12 weeks: 5+4 general surgery (at 2 different hospitals) + 3 weeks of surgery elective. For us, they will shorten surgery rotation to, say, 9 weeks (I have no idea, I'm making this up), so that you could use the remaining time for whatever electives you want to do. I guess if you want to do a surgical subspecialty elective it won't make much difference, but for people who'd rather take derm than a surgery elective it will be better. If I understand it correctly, other core rotations will be similarly shortened, so you'll be able to take more electives. So, say, you're debating between two surgical electives - now you can take both of them instead of just one plus some IM elective you don't really care about. Something like this; the idea is to give students more flexibility in choosing the clinical experience they want (aside from fulfilling the standard medical school requirements).
2. Not exactly. You'll choose when to take Step 1 during your major clinical year yourself, i.e. you can take it after one core rotation, or in the middle, or in the end - then yes, it's going to be holidays. The important point is, you choose your own time.
3. I have no idea about 9 months, but I think it's feasible from January through September; even with some earlier residency interviews this should be OK. I imagine being in the research phase is better for preparing your residency applications than being in some rigorous clinical rotation. Plus, if your research is productive, you may include something in your application/update. (though I'm still not sure if this will be enough for supercompetitve residencies like derm, plastics etc. or whether you'll still have to take an extra year of research)
I wish they would give us more info, too! But it seems like, at least at the time of the second look, it was still work in progress... Scary, but I hope they know what they're doing. Plus, the new Cornell curriculum seems to be modeled after Penn's curriculum which is awesome.
Correct me if I'm wrong here but from what you all are saying, it sounds like Cornell students might have less time for electives, away rotations, sub-i, etc. than at other schools (time in the clinics in general). What I'm understanding from this discussion is that core rotations are being shortened so that they will end in December (including step 1) rather than February (at most other schools with the 1.5 curriculum). At this point, we would have had 2 less months on the clinics than at other schools but be ready to start rotations, etc. again 2 months earlier. However, this extra 2 months that was saved along with 4-7 months of that last 1.5 years will become dedicated research time. At other similar schools, like Penn (which Amygdarya mentioned), dedicated research time is usually 3-4 months. When all this is added up, it sounds like we have 3-6 fewer months (2 that were subtracted in the core rotations and and extra 1-3 because of additional research time as compared to other schools) of clinical rotations.
I'm not sure if I have this correct but let me know if this makes sense to all of you. I'm just basing this on what was said above.
I'm not sure if I have this correct but let me know if this makes sense to all of you. I'm just basing this on what was said above.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2011
- Messages
- 190
- Reaction score
- 82
That was what I was thinking as well. It definitely seems a little jammed and less of an emphasis for WCMC. I think Penn and WCMC have a little different curriculums. This is what is pretty scary about being a Guinea pig...
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 2,135
- Reaction score
- 1,729
I'm certainly concerned about Cornell's curriculum being new, too (though I'm choosing Cornell anyway, and not because I don't have any other good options).
As for research time: so, at Cornell you'll take Step 1 during the main clinical year (i.e. by December), while at other 1.5 preclinical schools you may have to take it after the main preclinical year, which means that Cornell frees up up to 2 months in the last 1.5 years, which can justify how 4 months research slot at other 1.5 preclinical schools turns into 6 months at Cornell without any other major scheduling differences.
You can also look at it this way: you'll have 12+5 - OK, take a month off for vacation 🙂 - 12+4=16 months for Step 2, sub-I, aways and electives, residency interviews and research. If you subtract 6-9 research months (notice that you don't have to take the whole 9 months if you don't want to), you have 7-10 months for Step 2, sub-I, aways, electives and interviews. As far as I understand, research and interviews can overlap (it's easier to take time off research than clinical rotations). Sub-I is usually 1 months, electives and aways are usually 1 month as well, and you need no more than 2 months for Step 2. The way I see it, there is enough time for everything (after subtracting all the mandatory requirements, there are still 4-7 months left for aways and electives) unless you want to take more than 2 aways (which is unusual even for supercompetitive specialties) or something like that. Of course you'll need to schedule sub-I, electives and aways early enough to have LORs by the time of residency applications, especially if you're applying to supercompetitive specialties, which means you'll push research till later in the year. Which means you won't have much research for your residency applications unless you do some research in the summer between MS1 and MS2, throughout preclinical years or in your extra research year. So scheduling research late kind of defeats the purpose of having research by the time of your residency applications and you'll probably have to take an extra research year for supercompetitive specialties anyway. But the things is, a lot of people at Penn etc. take an extra year for research/MS as well (I don't have the data proving it, but I assume these are mostly people applying to supercompetitive specialties).
The way I see it, the reason behind Cornell giving 6-9 months for research may be two fold: 1) to give students more research time to improve their residency applications, which may be negated by the fact that you may have to schedule research late; however, considering that you can take some electives during the main clinical year, you may not have to push research too late after all, so you may have something worth mentioning for updates if not for applications themselves; 2) to fill up the end of the 4th year with something meaningful (the truth is, for many MS4s end of the year is kind of a prolonged vacation; as far as I know, Penn students can do something like TA, volunteering etc. during the "extra" time they have left in MS4; by allotting more research time Cornell basically limits your choices of doing something other than research in your "extra" time, which may be a negative if you want to do things other than research; however, it's worth noting that research doesn't have to be bench research, it may be public health, global health - which means you can be out of the country - etc., so you're limited to research, but you're not limited in what you actually do).
Just my thoughts on the issue.
As for research time: so, at Cornell you'll take Step 1 during the main clinical year (i.e. by December), while at other 1.5 preclinical schools you may have to take it after the main preclinical year, which means that Cornell frees up up to 2 months in the last 1.5 years, which can justify how 4 months research slot at other 1.5 preclinical schools turns into 6 months at Cornell without any other major scheduling differences.
You can also look at it this way: you'll have 12+5 - OK, take a month off for vacation 🙂 - 12+4=16 months for Step 2, sub-I, aways and electives, residency interviews and research. If you subtract 6-9 research months (notice that you don't have to take the whole 9 months if you don't want to), you have 7-10 months for Step 2, sub-I, aways, electives and interviews. As far as I understand, research and interviews can overlap (it's easier to take time off research than clinical rotations). Sub-I is usually 1 months, electives and aways are usually 1 month as well, and you need no more than 2 months for Step 2. The way I see it, there is enough time for everything (after subtracting all the mandatory requirements, there are still 4-7 months left for aways and electives) unless you want to take more than 2 aways (which is unusual even for supercompetitive specialties) or something like that. Of course you'll need to schedule sub-I, electives and aways early enough to have LORs by the time of residency applications, especially if you're applying to supercompetitive specialties, which means you'll push research till later in the year. Which means you won't have much research for your residency applications unless you do some research in the summer between MS1 and MS2, throughout preclinical years or in your extra research year. So scheduling research late kind of defeats the purpose of having research by the time of your residency applications and you'll probably have to take an extra research year for supercompetitive specialties anyway. But the things is, a lot of people at Penn etc. take an extra year for research/MS as well (I don't have the data proving it, but I assume these are mostly people applying to supercompetitive specialties).
The way I see it, the reason behind Cornell giving 6-9 months for research may be two fold: 1) to give students more research time to improve their residency applications, which may be negated by the fact that you may have to schedule research late; however, considering that you can take some electives during the main clinical year, you may not have to push research too late after all, so you may have something worth mentioning for updates if not for applications themselves; 2) to fill up the end of the 4th year with something meaningful (the truth is, for many MS4s end of the year is kind of a prolonged vacation; as far as I know, Penn students can do something like TA, volunteering etc. during the "extra" time they have left in MS4; by allotting more research time Cornell basically limits your choices of doing something other than research in your "extra" time, which may be a negative if you want to do things other than research; however, it's worth noting that research doesn't have to be bench research, it may be public health, global health - which means you can be out of the country - etc., so you're limited to research, but you're not limited in what you actually do).
Just my thoughts on the issue.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2011
- Messages
- 2,036
- Reaction score
- 991
From what I gather, this isn't true (at least if you decided to do 6 months of research instead of 9, I think). Cornell's medicine and surgery rotations are already quite long compared to other schools at the moment. Most schools I've seen have 8 weeks of medicine and surgery (and 10 at most), while Cornell has 12 currently, so I don't think we're losing much at all by shortening these rotations. By finishing Step and the MCY by December of M3 and having 6 months of research time, we still come out having equivalent elective, sub-I, and away rotation time as other schools do.
@Amygdarya and @nemo123 y'all are so great for putting these descriptions/explanations up! mad props.
also, i've never been so excited to see a check get cashed (deposit on may 15th)! good luck to all of you on the wait list!
also, i've never been so excited to see a check get cashed (deposit on may 15th)! good luck to all of you on the wait list!
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2013
- Messages
- 253
- Reaction score
- 295
On the topic of the protected time for the Scholarly Project, I looked into Columbia's:
"Students have four to ten months of protected time during Differentiation & Integration to finish a scholarly project, which may be completed in continuous or divided blocks."
The devoted time seems comparable. Perhaps we should ask how students at Columbia feel about it.
Field trip to the Columbia thread? 😀
"Students have four to ten months of protected time during Differentiation & Integration to finish a scholarly project, which may be completed in continuous or divided blocks."
The devoted time seems comparable. Perhaps we should ask how students at Columbia feel about it.
Field trip to the Columbia thread? 😀
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2013
- Messages
- 154
- Reaction score
- 74
Where are you headed, Pyrrion89?
