2017-2018 Rosalind Franklin University

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83-89% graduation rate..... holy ****.
That's pretty abysmal.

Does that have anything to do with why CMS has been put on probation multiple times by the LCME? I tried to get more info at interview day, but didn't get much of a straight shot response.
Jesus, that grad rate is horrid.
 
83-89% graduation rate..... holy ****.
That's pretty abysmal.

Does that have anything to do with why CMS has been put on probation multiple times by the LCME? I tried to get more info at interview day, but didn't get much of a straight shot response.
Good info!! Thanks for posting this! :scared:
 
So is Rosalind Franklin to Chicago the same as New York Medical College is to New York? Because NYMC is in Valhalla and I always feel badly when people getting IIs there get hyped about visiting New York City...
I currently live on the North side of Chicago and interviewed here a couple of months ago. It took me a little over an hour to get to my interview. It would probably take an additional 20-30 minutes to get downtown (Streeterville area). The name of this school is pretty confusing to most people who aren't from the area.

To those still waiting to hear from Rosalind: I asked some current students what their least favorite thing about the school was and all three of them just smiled at each other and said that the communication is extremely slow. This wait you are all experiencing doesn't seem like something that will go away if you end up going here (but obviously n=1 and others may have had an extremely different experience). Best of luck!
 
^^^^ All you guys are sketching me out...
Is this not a good school to go to? I was planning to decline my D.O. acceptances if I got into Rosalind Franklin because I would prefer not to take both the COMLEX and USLME if I don't have to.
However, now I'm seeing all the above comments (RFU being on probation, low graduation rates, slow communication, etc. etc.) and am getting sketched out. Can someone provide legit sources of information regarding all these issues? Can current students talk about how they feel (honestly)?
 
^^^^ All you guys are sketching me out...
Is this not a good school to go to? I was planning to decline my D.O. acceptances if I got into Rosalind Franklin because I would prefer not to take both the COMLEX and USLME if I don't have to.
However, now I'm seeing all the above comments (RFU being on probation, low graduation rates, slow communication, etc. etc.) and am getting sketched out. Can someone provide legit sources of information regarding all these issues? Can current students talk about how they feel (honestly)?
I'm really sorry if I contributed to your stress! That was not my intention at all. I know multiple people who currently attend Rosalind and are happy there.
Every school will have strengths and weaknesses. I can't speak to the low graduation rates or RFU being on probation because I honestly didn't know about these things.
 
83-89% graduation rate..... holy ****.
That's pretty abysmal.
Does that have anything to do with why CMS has been put on probation multiple times by the LCME? I tried to get more info at interview day, but didn't get much of a straight shot response.
Jesus, that grad rate is horrid.
Good info!! Thanks for posting this! :scared:
Anyone who attends have any insights into why their grad rate is so low?
^^^^ All you guys are sketching me out...
Is this not a good school to go to? I was planning to decline my D.O. acceptances if I got into Rosalind Franklin because I would prefer not to take both the COMLEX and USLME if I don't have to.
However, now I'm seeing all the above comments (RFU being on probation, low graduation rates, slow communication, etc. etc.) and am getting sketched out. Can someone provide legit sources of information regarding all these issues? Can current students talk about how they feel (honestly)?

Slow your roll ya'll. You're looking at the 4-year graduation rate, not the total completion rate, which would include 5 and 6 year graduates.
So once a handful of people veer off into the MD-PhD program...
and another handful take a research year or decide to do a masters in the middle,...
and a few stay back to remediate a year,...
and another handful take a personal LOA year, ...
and a scant few decided to drop out all together for whatever reason, ...
THEN you're down to 80-something % of the starting class graduating at the 4 year mark.
But in reality the total graduation rate is the same as all the other med schools in the country, in the very high 90's.

And this has nothing to do with the probation issue that happened a few years ago - that was about the size of the endowment relative to tuition and has been fixed with some more recent big donors.
It's a great school to go to and there's nothing wrong with the academics here (anymore than there would be at any other school at least)
 
Slow your roll ya'll. You're looking at the 4-year graduation rate, not the total completion rate, which would include 5 and 6 year graduates.
So once a handful of people veer off into the MD-PhD program...
and another handful take a research year or decide to do a masters in the middle,...
and a few stay back to remediate a year,...
and another handful take a personal LOA year, ...
and a scant few decided to drop out all together for whatever reason, ...
THEN you're down to 80-something % of the starting class graduating at the 4 year mark.
But in reality the total graduation rate is the same as all the other med schools in the country, in the very high 90's.

And this has nothing to do with the probation issue that happened a few years ago - that was about the size of the endowment relative to tuition and has been fixed with some more recent big donors.
It's a great school to go to and there's nothing wrong with the academics here (anymore than there would be at any other school at least)

Given this, I'd be curious to know how many students drop out, take a LOA or need to remediate a year vs. the more appealing alternative reasons.


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^^^^ All you guys are sketching me out...
Is this not a good school to go to? I was planning to decline my D.O. acceptances if I got into Rosalind Franklin because I would prefer not to take both the COMLEX and USLME if I don't have to.
However, now I'm seeing all the above comments (RFU being on probation, low graduation rates, slow communication, etc. etc.) and am getting sketched out. Can someone provide legit sources of information regarding all these issues? Can current students talk about how they feel (honestly)?


I would still take the acceptance over any DO school. The problems with probation are old and many many schools come on and off probation all the time, its common, so nothing to worry about there.

I think most of these complaints originate from people who came into the cycle with higher expectations than have panned out or with IIs at much better schools they're hoping for, its easy to poop on the little guy. RFU is still a MD school and has been graduating docs for over 100 years.
 
Slow your roll ya'll. You're looking at the 4-year graduation rate, not the total completion rate, which would include 5 and 6 year graduates.
So once a handful of people veer off into the MD-PhD program...
and another handful take a research year or decide to do a masters in the middle,...
and a few stay back to remediate a year,...
and another handful take a personal LOA year, ...
and a scant few decided to drop out all together for whatever reason, ...
THEN you're down to 80-something % of the starting class graduating at the 4 year mark.
But in reality the total graduation rate is the same as all the other med schools in the country, in the very high 90's.

And this has nothing to do with the probation issue that happened a few years ago - that was about the size of the endowment relative to tuition and has been fixed with some more recent big donors.
It's a great school to go to and there's nothing wrong with the academics here (anymore than there would be at any other school at least)


No, your assumptions are not completley true. The graduation rate statistic on the website says to refer to the academic catalog for the expected graduation time. In the catalog, it outlines the expected graduation time to be "in no more than 5.5 total years of enrollment (not including leaves of absence) and in no more than seven years from the date of first matriculation." This includes all the students that you mentioned that may take a leave of absence for a year or dual degree students. MD/Ph.D numbers are not included in these statistics, otherwise other schools would have calculated their statistics similar.

Rosalind Franklin is indeed a decent school, but the graduation rate is sigificantly lower than other schools. Your reasons do not account for this.

Edit:

Sources:
Student Achievement Data

https://s3.amazonaws.com/rfums-bigtree/files/resources/academiccatalog_2017-2018-.pdf
-page 74 of academic catalog outlines graduation expectations
 
^^^^ All you guys are sketching me out...
Is this not a good school to go to? I was planning to decline my D.O. acceptances if I got into Rosalind Franklin because I would prefer not to take both the COMLEX and USLME if I don't have to.
However, now I'm seeing all the above comments (RFU being on probation, low graduation rates, slow communication, etc. etc.) and am getting sketched out. Can someone provide legit sources of information regarding all these issues? Can current students talk about how they feel (honestly)?

Which DO school? 😳


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But in reality the total graduation rate is the same as all the other med schools in the country, in the very high 90's
Slow your roll ya'll. You're looking at the 4-year graduation rate, not the total completion rate, which would include 5 and 6 year graduates.
So once a handful of people veer off into the MD-PhD program...
and another handful take a research year or decide to do a masters in the middle,...
and a few stay back to remediate a year,...
and another handful take a personal LOA year, ...
and a scant few decided to drop out all together for whatever reason, ...
THEN you're down to 80-something % of the starting class graduating at the 4 year mark.
But in reality the total graduation rate is the same as all the other med schools in the country, in the very high 90's.

And this has nothing to do with the probation issue that happened a few years ago - that was about the size of the endowment relative to tuition and has been fixed with some more recent big donors.
It's a great school to go to and there's nothing wrong with the academics here (anymore than there would be at any other school at least)
Source? I don’t think the website says that
 
Source? I don’t think the website says that
"Graduation Rate (Normal Time): Measures the percentage of first-time, degree-seeking students in a cohort who graduated in the normal time it would take to complete the degree, as outlined in the Catalog."
 
"Graduation Rate (Normal Time): Measures the percentage of first-time, degree-seeking students in a cohort who graduated in the normal time it would take to complete the degree, as outlined in the Catalog."
Refer to my post above for the details of what the academic catalog outlines
 
^^^^ All you guys are sketching me out...
Is this not a good school to go to? I was planning to decline my D.O. acceptances if I got into Rosalind Franklin because I would prefer not to take both the COMLEX and USLME if I don't have to.
However, now I'm seeing all the above comments (RFU being on probation, low graduation rates, slow communication, etc. etc.) and am getting sketched out. Can someone provide legit sources of information regarding all these issues? Can current students talk about how they feel (honestly)?
Current med student here. Idk where the other poster got the high 80s graduation rate. The accreditation issue and probation had to do with finances, not with the medical education. There was an article about it, which you can find with a little digging on Google. Since starting here, I have not once had the need to communicate with anyone from administration. If a professor has a tendency to slowly respond to emails then the problem is with that person and not a reflection of the school. I chose Rosalind over SUNY and the top DO schools.

I've already started studying for STEP 1 by going over firecracker and First Aid, and every topic that is listed in these resources for the courses that we have already taken were fully covered. So the curriculum is more than decent for doing well on the boards.

As for matching, every year, we have someone match into the top programs around the country in various specialties, not just into the local programs in Illinois.

I am genuinely happy with my decision to attend RFU.
 
Current med student here. Idk where the other poster got the high 80s graduation rate. The accreditation issue and probation had to do with finances, not with the medical education. There was an article about it, which you can find with a little digging on Google. Since starting here, I have not once had the need to communicate with anyone from administration. If a professor has a tendency to slowly respond to emails then the problem is with that person and not a reflection of the school. I chose Rosalind over SUNY and the top DO schools.

I've already started studying for STEP 1 by going over firecracker and First Aid, and every topic that is listed in these resources for the courses that we have already taken were fully covered. So the curriculum is more than decent for doing well on the boards.

As for matching, every year, we have someone match into the top programs around the country in various specialties, not just into the local programs in Illinois.

I am genuinely happy with my decision to attend RFU.
Grad rates are on the website. Strangely though, the last three years have been redacted.
Student Achievement Data
 
Grad rates are on the website. Strangely though, the last three years have been redacted.
Student Achievement Data
I don't know why the graduation rates are so low. More than a handful of us had multiple acceptance and decided to go here. If you are skeptical or just want to **** on this school then go elsewhere.
 
I don't know why the graduation rates are so low. More than a handful of us had multiple acceptance and decided to go here. If you are skeptical or just want to **** on this school then go elsewhere.
I am not saying RFU is a bad school at all...Your school literally posted these percentages. Someone tried to give reasons why the grad rate is low, and from the information on the academic catalog, those reasons didn't account for it.

I am not ****ting on the school, I am just trying to get some information on the reason why this before I make a 6 figure investment if I do attend this school.
 
I don't know why the graduation rates are so low. More than a handful of us had multiple acceptance and decided to go here. If you are skeptical or just want to **** on this school then go elsewhere.

Relax. CMS is def a good school. Match list is impressive, faculty seem helpful, students seem happy. I loved my visit here! But it’s not abnormal to want to learn everything about a school before making a decision.


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I don't know why the graduation rates are so low. More than a handful of us had multiple acceptance and decided to go here. If you are skeptical or just want to **** on this school then go elsewhere.
NO one was sh*ting on the school. Its just a minor discussion. Applicants are trying to simply understand 🙂
 
Source? I don’t think the website says that
Source? I'm a med student at RFU. And it's a school accredited by the LCME, which takes timely graduation very seriously.
Seriously enough that any school that had a total graduation rate in the 80%s would be sanctioned &/or shut down pretty quickly. If you want to dig up the by-laws of the LCME accreditation process and read all about it, then more power to ya, but I have lectures to watch tonight.
And if you don't understand that there are many, perfectly valid and acceptable, reasons why someone might take more than 4 years to graduate med school, then I don't know what to tell you.
To put that number in context, with a class size of ~190 every year, if only 85% graduated, that would mean roughly 30 people didn't make it through from each class. And that is not a thing that happens. What does happen is about that number will take extra time (for reasons I said above) and graduate in 5, 6 or 7 years. There is a major, consistent effort by the school administration, faculty, and staff to ensure that not only do students do well in classes, but are also well prepared for clinicals, Steps, residency, and future practice. There are not droves of folks failing out or struggling without help. Some people just have other things going on in their lives and take more time.
 
@tantacles Maybe you can comment on the graduation rates.

I'm not sure. Most of my class graduated on time with a few taking time off and a couple dropping out (one person didn't pass step 1 and just sort of gave up, another had trouble with courses if I remember correctly). A few people also withdrew from the match because they didn't feel confident they would match and elected to apply the next year. In any case, I'm not too concerned about typical people coming in who are accepted and aren't coming in through BMS (special master's program) or PMP (pre-matriculation program). That makes up the majority of people who I saw not do well.
 
I'm not sure. Most of my class graduated on time with a few taking time off and a couple dropping out (one person didn't pass step 1 and just sort of gave up, another had trouble with courses if I remember correctly). A few people also withdrew from the match because they didn't feel confident they would match and elected to apply the next year. In any case, I'm not too concerned about typical people coming in who are accepted and aren't coming in through BMS (special master's program) or PMP (pre-matriculation program). That makes up the majority of people who I saw not do well.
Interesting! Those coming from PMP tend to struggle?
 
I'm not sure. Most of my class graduated on time with a few taking time off and a couple dropping out (one person didn't pass step 1 and just sort of gave up, another had trouble with courses if I remember correctly). A few people also withdrew from the match because they didn't feel confident they would match and elected to apply the next year. In any case, I'm not too concerned about typical people coming in who are accepted and aren't coming in through BMS (special master's program) or PMP (pre-matriculation program). That makes up the majority of people who I saw not do well.
Thanks. Some of the current M1As are actually doing better than the regular M1s as they have a lighter schedule. Do they tend to do worse during the M2 year?
 
Silence since being complete here since August. Should I call for an update or is that not welcomed?
 
No, your assumptions are not completley true. The graduation rate statistic on the website says to refer to the academic catalog for the expected graduation time. In the catalog, it outlines the expected graduation time to be "in no more than 5.5 total years of enrollment (not including leaves of absence) and in no more than seven years from the date of first matriculation." This includes all the students that you mentioned that may take a leave of absence for a year or dual degree students. MD/Ph.D numbers are not included in these statistics, otherwise other schools would have calculated their statistics similar.

Rosalind Franklin is indeed a decent school, but the graduation rate is sigificantly lower than other schools. Your reasons do not account for this.

Edit:

Sources:
Student Achievement Data

https://s3.amazonaws.com/rfums-bigtree/files/resources/academiccatalog_2017-2018-.pdf
-page 74 of academic catalog outlines graduation expectations


I think you are confusing two different things. The student achievement data is based upon the normal expected time to complete the degree. That is four years. The section in the catalog you pointed out is talking about the maximum time permitted to complete the degree 5.5 years of enrollment, 7 total with LoA.


Edit:

Pertinent section from academic catalog.

"All these requirements must be met in no more than 5.5 total years of enrollment (not including leaves of absence) and in no more than seven years from the date of first matriculation."
 
Given this, I'd be curious to know how many students drop out, take a LOA or need to remediate a year vs. the more appealing alternative reasons.
I don't have numbers on that, but as far as I've heard around school, there are very few who actually don't finish at all or even have to remediate a whole year. Even if you fail a class, there are options to remediate a class without having to re-do a whole year. And the school goes all out to provide you with the resources to prevent that from happening n the first place.
Most of the folks who take more time are doing something research related (MD/PhD, MS, Research year) or personal (having a kid, etc.)
No, your assumptions are not completley true. The graduation rate statistic on the website says to refer to the academic catalog for the expected graduation time. In the catalog, it outlines the expected graduation time to be "in no more than 5.5 total years of enrollment (not including leaves of absence) and in no more than seven years from the date of first matriculation." This includes all the students that you mentioned that may take a leave of absence for a year or dual degree students. MD/Ph.D numbers are not included in these statistics, otherwise other schools would have calculated their statistics similar.

Rosalind Franklin is indeed a decent school, but the graduation rate is sigificantly lower than other schools. Your reasons do not account for this.

Edit:

Sources:
Student Achievement Data

https://s3.amazonaws.com/rfums-bigtree/files/resources/academiccatalog_2017-2018-.pdf
-page 74 of academic catalog outlines graduation expectations
You are confused and don't know what you're talking about.
See my previous post and the one above from @holdthemayo
The overall graduation rate (including 5,6 & 7 year graduates) at RFU is not any lower than any other med school in the country.
 
I don't have numbers on that, but as far as I've heard around school, there are very few who actually don't finish at all or even have to remediate a whole year. Even if you fail a class, there are options to remediate a class without having to re-do a whole year. And the school goes all out to provide you with the resources to prevent that from happening n the first place.
Most of the folks who take more time are doing something research related (MD/PhD, MS, Research year) or personal (having a kid, etc.)

You are confused and don't know what you're talking about.
See my previous post and the one above from @holdthemayo
The overall graduation rate (including 5,6 & 7 year graduates) at RFU is not any lower than any other med school in the country.
The rate still needs to be clarified for me...I don't see why RFU would calculate the grad rate that makes it less than what it actually is. I don't find ur reason believable. No med school that I know of included md/phd number in grad rate....Nor dual degrees to calculate that statistic.

But nevertheless, I would go here over any Carribean school any day.
 
I think you are confusing two different things. The student achievement data is based upon the normal expected time to complete the degree. That is four years. The section in the catalog you pointed out is talking about the maximum time permitted to complete the degree 5.5 years of enrollment, 7 total with LoA.


Edit:

Pertinent section from academic catalog.

"All these requirements must be met in no more than 5.5 total years of enrollment (not including leaves of absence) and in no more than seven years from the date of first matriculation."
Thanks for pointing that out. Thats good to hear
 
The rate still needs to be clarified for me...I don't see why RFU would calculate the grad rate that makes it less than what it actually is. I don't find ur reason believable. No med school that I know of included md/phd number in grad rate....Nor dual degrees to calculate that statistic.

But nevertheless, I would go here over any Carribean school any day.

I suggest you call the school and ask for clarification on this number. Everyone here is trying to help and just add their two cents but none of us truly know what went into the calculation for the number you're seeing and how accurate it is. I agree with you it'd be odd for RFU to put a seemingly low and disconcerting number like this up on their website unless it was the best version of the number they could come up with since usually each school's numbers are inflated. On the other hand, some of the suggested reasons people have posted here seem really plausible. I'd be interested in what actual school reps have to say about it.
 
I don't find ur reason believable.

Fine then. I'm an anonymous person on the internet, you're not required to believe me.
As a current student at RFU I was just trying to be helpful and allay concerns, brought on by people misreading bare numbers and not understanding context, by providing an explanation of the context of those numbers. But if you don't want to listen to that, then by all means, call the school and let them tell you the same thing.
 
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Just as a head's up, I'm not sure how they will be transitioning BMS/PMP students next year with the new curriculum, but there will be no M1A student status anymore.
 
Just as a head's up, I'm not sure how they will be transitioning BMS/PMP students next year with the new curriculum, but there will be no M1A student status anymore.
Whats M1A?
 
Whats M1A?

I think it stands for advanced M1 student. Basically, they already took some M1 courses in their BMS/PMP programs, so they didn't have to take them with the rest of their class.
 
Everyone needs to relax a bit.

Applicants have every right to question and look further into the data provided by our website. They are at one of the most stressful times in their lives, and are provided limited information on each school/program to make a $250k choice that will influence the rest of their lives.

The current CMS students here are obviously extremely proud of their school, as they should be (this is an indication to how happy we are at this school). However there are some passive-aggressive comments here that don't exactly make us look welcoming. Don't forget you are representing the school and the student body on these forums. There's a limited number of us here and we should be looking to make the best impressions.

Graduation rates - I can't comment on how they are actually calculated. But the AAMC states, "Graduation rates for medical students have been stable in the recent past. Between 80.6 percent and 82.2 percent of each of the three cohorts in the study graduated in four years. By the fifth year, the overall graduation rate for the three cohorts climbed to 91.3 percent, about the same rate that Kassebaum and Szenas (1994) calculated for the 1988 matriculating class (91.2 percent). Within seven years, 94.2 percent had graduated. A small number, including those in combined and dual degree programs, completed their M.D.s over longer periods, resulting in a 10-year completion rate of 96 percent for all three cohorts." See this link. This seems to be on par with the graduation rates stated on our website.

From a personal stand point, I have seen less than a handful of students (1-2 every year) stay back or not continue due to academic reasons. I have seen also a handful of students that do not continue medical school due to personal/family reasons. Nonetheless, we graduate almost a full class every year. See this link on graduation numbers for our school specifically (I have no idea what happened in 2014-2015). For reference - most classes enter with about 185-195 students.

End of the day, this is a fantastic school with an extremely strong match list. We have alumni all over the nation in leadership positions (PDs, department chairs). The school provides you everything you need to do well on boards, clerkships, and ultimately in residency. It is extremely hard to fail out. The school provides helps to struggling students, multiple chances, exam retakes, tutoring sessions, class retakes, repeating the entire year - pretty much anything to keep you in.

Nonetheless, I encourage anyone that has doubts to reach out to admissions and seek clarification.
 
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I hope the next acceptance day is soon. I was def impressed by the CMS!


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When did you interview? It's been six weeks for the people that interviewed 10/27. I interviewed 11/10 but I'm still hopeful it could be soon
 
Does anyone know if the medical school campus is in downtown Chicago? If not, how far from the city?
 
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