2021-2022 Case Western

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skimm said:
Curious if someone can help me make sense of the waitlist. If we are waitlisted now, and according to Case, there is little movement until May, a February interviewee would be assessed on their own merits for acceptance rather than in comparison to those on the waitlist, no? Moreover, a February interviewee would conceivably be a less competitive applicant than a September interviewee, so getting waitlisted now is harsher than a "you weren't as competitive as your other first-round competitive interviewees" and is actually a "you are not competitive enough to fit our definition of an applicant we want to accept," right?

I guess I can't understand how a September interviewee (presumably a quite competitive applicant) would not again be heavily considered until May (when students must begin turning down acceptances) while a December/Jan/Feb interviewee (conceivably markedly less competitive on paper) could receive an acceptance with no consideration given to the September interviewees on the waitlist unless those waitlisted were perceived rather negatively in their interviews OR Case is just comparing applicants to some theoretical standard and not to each other(in which case getting waitlisted now sucks). I guess my confusion is based on understanding what amount of assessment is relative to other applicants vs what amount is relative to some gold standard for an accepted applicant. Anyone have any thoughts?
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I've come to believe that the differences in candidate strength by time of II are a little exaggerated on SDN. I do believe it exists, but it might not be significant as many believe.

For one, a lot of schools have a general profile of stats and ECs that they look to interview. If you meet that threshold, even barely, and they just happen to see your application early because you submitted early, then you will get an early interview. Meanwhile, if you submitted later, you could still be equally competitive, but receive a late II.

However, schools normally have a seperate set of criteria that comprise "excellent candidates", which shifts their priority of review upward for early review, and thus early IIs. These candidates have an increased chance of acceptance.

Early II cohorts are a mixture of these two batches. Thus, I believe the following two statements are a better summary of early vs late IIs:
Early IIs are almost never a bad sign, but they are not necessarily a good sign.
Late IIs are almost never a good sign, but they are not necessarily a bad sign.
 
skimm said:
Curious if someone can help me make sense of the waitlist. If we are waitlisted now, and according to Case, there is little movement until May, a February interviewee would be assessed on their own merits for acceptance rather than in comparison to those on the waitlist, no? Moreover, a February interviewee would conceivably be a less competitive applicant than a September interviewee, so getting waitlisted now is harsher than a "you weren't as competitive as your other first-round competitive interviewees" and is actually a "you are not competitive enough to fit our definition of an applicant we want to accept," right?

I guess I can't understand how a September interviewee (presumably a quite competitive applicant) would not again be heavily considered until May (when students must begin turning down acceptances) while a December/Jan/Feb interviewee (conceivably markedly less competitive on paper) could receive an acceptance with no consideration given to the September interviewees on the waitlist unless those waitlisted were perceived rather negatively in their interviews OR Case is just comparing applicants to some theoretical standard and not to each other(in which case getting waitlisted now sucks). I guess my confusion is based on understanding what amount of assessment is relative to other applicants vs what amount is relative to some gold standard for an accepted applicant. Anyone have any thoughts?
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Yes and no. A February interviewee is absolutely not necessarily a less competitive applicant than one who interviewed earlier. If this were the case, there would be no reason to interview them, since all the As would go to those interviewing first. 🙂

A February interviewee had lower review priority than those who came before. This could be for a number of reasons -- URM, high stat, ex-military, VIP, etc. Holistic review. All interviewees have a shot, otherwise there would be no reason to waste time seeing them.

Getting wait listed now is totally NOT "harsher" than getting wait listed later. EVERYONE who is invited to interview is competitive enough to fit their definition of an applicant they want to accept, as evidenced by the fact that, depending on the year, many people are later accepted off the WL.

The fact remains, however, that they know from experience that they are going to like some people they are seeing later more than some people they see earlier, even though the earlier people were reviewed first. For that reason, they need to leave room in the class for them.

My observation, based on the last two cycles on SDN as well as first hand observations from a few classmates last cycle, is that things really do work out for most people placed on this particular WL. If you go back and look, several active posters were called off the WL last May, including a few who had ZERO As at that point!

Case is kind of a unique school. It has a gorgeous new building, close relationship with the world renowned Cleveland Clinic, a world class admissions team led by an extremely director who takes the time to share information with us right here on SDN, and a really nice vibe that attracts a ton of top tier candidates. And yet, they either lack the funding or the desire to engage in bidding wars for those candidates. Even people with demonstrated need have complained that their net cost at Case was not competitive with other schools.

As a result, if you look at last year's thread, you will find several people really torn about giving up their A, but, in the end, they did. They lose a lot of people for this reason, as evidenced by their yield being around 35-50%. Not terrible, but far below other similarly ranked schools.

People drop Case As because they get into "better" schools, cannot justify the net cost differential between Case and other schools, or both. People placed on the WL lose interest between now and next May for the same reasons. In the end, it seems as though if you really want and/or need Case come next spring, you have a reasonable chance of receiving an A. It also seems more likely than not that you will move on by then, since there were relatively few people pining for that Case A last May. Just go check out the thread.

The pattern I have observed on SDN over the past few cycles is that first, everyone just wants a secondary. Then they just want an II. Then they just want an A. Then they just want money. In the end, all we all want is everything. And Case, as attractive as it is, at the end of the day is not Harvard or Stanford, and yet they are generally less generous as they are when it comes to need based aid, and they don't play the merit scholarship game at all. As a result, many people who consider Case their dream school in the beginning of the cycle move on to other dreams when confronted with a $100K or more cost differential over 4 years between the #25 school and another school that could also easily get them wherever it is they want to go.

Every result that isn't an A post-II stings at least a little. Given the way things tend to play out at Case, I'm not sure this one should sting so much. The odds are high you wouldn't end up going there even if you did receive the A now (less than half do, including all the people called off the WL, which means the yield from those receiving initial As is far less than the final reported number). The odds are also significantly greater than zero that you could be called off the WL in May if you still want it. JMHO, based on observations over the past two cycles.
 
msummer said:
I wonder how the difference between Case Main and Lerner is factored into this situation involving financial aid, scholarships, and yield. Lerner med is completely free (but 5 years), generally more sought after, and has a higher yield. It's also noticeably more highly regarded (both in it's residency matching and general reputation) than Case Main (although Main is certainly still amazing). Lerner and Case Main are pretty separated programs, but CWRU has always put both programs under one name (USNWR and MSAR).

Lerner is the only med school I know that never accepts more people than spots available at any given time, and it's known to have a very low post-II acceptance rate (20%), with a yield ranging from 65% to 80%. Perhaps the extra funds that are diverted to Lerner are the reason why CWRU struggles a little more to fund its Main program.
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???? Not at all. Lerner is an entirely different program, different profile, and dedicated funding source. It's no more under the same name than the MSTP and MD only programs at any other school. It's one school, so it's one name! By the way, your description of CCLCM could also apply to NYU, although NYU has a larger class! 🙂 The commonality is "free" and no PhD.

CWRU is not "struggling." It's a decision they made. Harvard and Columbia have made the same determination. They are not "struggling" with funding. They just choose not to use it to bribe attractive candidates without financial need to come to their schools.

I am sure the existence of CCLCM has nothing to do with it. After all, it is a very unique program. They could just kill it, increase the size of the University class, and spread the money around if one thing had anything at all to do with the other. It doesn't. They just choose not to compete with other schools with merit scholarships, and are willing to accept a lower yield as a result.

Bottom line, they get people who really want to be there, and are willing to pay for the privilege. It also means a lot of people who think they really want it in July reach a different conclusion when the rubber hits the road in April!
 
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KnightDoc said:
???? Not at all. Lerner is an entirely different program, different profile, and dedicated funding source. It's no more under the same name than the MSTP and MD only programs at any other school. It's one school, so it's one name! By the way, your description of CCLCM could also apply to NYU, although NYU has a larger class! 🙂 The commonality is "free" and no PhD.

CWRU is not "struggling." It's a decision they made. Harvard and Columbia have made the same determination. They are not "struggling" with funding. They just choose not to use it to bribe attractive candidates without financial need to come to their schools.

I am sure the existence of CCLCM has nothing to do with it. After all, it is a very unique program. They could just kill it, increase the size of the University class, and spread the money around if one thing had anything at all to do with the other. It doesn't. They just choose not to compete with other schools with merit scholarships, and are willing to accept a lower yield as a result.

Bottom line, they get people who really want to be there, and are willing to pay for the privilege. It also means a lot of people who think they really want it in July reach a different conclusion when the rubber hits the road in April!
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True enough, I misinterpreted your original post. By under the same name I meant both fall under CWRU, and are just separate programs within it. Ironically your comparison to MD vs MD-PhD programs made the opposite point for me, as both programs at any school share a substantial portion of curriculum. The MD portions are near identical and I would generally consider them "under the same name". No?
 
Seems like this is a school that generally goes in order of complete date?

So I think that in contrast to other schools, II timing may not mean much here aside from the fact that later interviews are likely for fewer spots
 
msummer said:
True enough, I misinterpreted your original post. By under the same name I meant both fall under CWRU, and are just separate programs within it. Ironically your comparison to MD vs MD-PhD programs made the opposite point for me, as both programs at any school share a substantial portion of curriculum. The MD portions are near identical and I would generally consider them "under the same name". No?
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Yes. I just meant that, like MSTP programs have dedicated funding separate and apart from MD-only, the same is true for CCLCM. They are separate programs under CWRU. The Cleveland Clinic does not run its own medical school, but has a partnership with CWRU for this.

It's not like Case doesn't make merit money available because it spends it all on CCLCM. It's more like, as at Harvard, they just don't want to do it, so they don't.

Many top candidates apply because it's a great school and, in May, no one knows what their cycle is going to look like. Then people like @skimm are disappointed, confused, bewildered, devastated and pissed when they interview and don't receive an A. Others are thrilled when they do receive the A. Then fall turns to winter, and winter to spring, and everyone's cycle comes into focus.

Some have nothing and need to reassess and reapply. Others do really well and move on from CWRU. Really well means T10, with or without merit money. It also means basically any other school in the country with merit money. It could mean an IS public school with no fin aid.

At the end of the day, a lot of people with CWRU As have to consider whether it is worth a $5-30K or more premium per year over other alternatives. Some love CWRU so much that they happily pay whatever it costs. Others don't have that problem because they don't have other alternatives.

Same with people on the WL. Some get other great As and drop off. Other don't and write lovely LOIs, in addition to many updates between now and the spring. I'm just saying, based on observation over the past two years, that it seems to work out for most people, and that what seems like a great setback now or over the next few months ends up being a big nothing when May rolls around.
 
Does anyone know if Case accepts update letters and if so, where to submit them?
 
No II from case yet. Complete 08/06. Very disappointed because I thought I had a decent application + mission fit. I’m wondering if my greatest challenge essay was too personal. Oh well…. Still hopeful though.
 
farfaraway said:
No II from case yet. Complete 08/06. Very disappointed because I thought I had a decent application + mission fit. I’m wondering if my greatest challenge essay was too personal. Oh well…. Still hopeful though.
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If it makes you feel better I feel like I was a pretty good applicant and good mission fit, complete 7/16 and no II or R. They may have just not reviewed your application yet.
 
farfaraway said:
No II from case yet. Complete 08/06. Very disappointed because I thought I had a decent application + mission fit. I’m wondering if my greatest challenge essay was too personal. Oh well…. Still hopeful though.
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Complete 8/3 and same. rn, it looks like they're right at the end of july/beginning of August (at least for high stat applicants), so we should hear back soon either way
 
farfaraway said:
No II from case yet. Complete 08/06. Very disappointed because I thought I had a decent application + mission fit. I’m wondering if my greatest challenge essay was too personal. Oh well…. Still hopeful though.
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fwiw i havn't heard back either complete around same time as you...also doubt that 1 secondary essay will kill your app hahaha dw about it man just stay positive
 
II just now (CC Lerner), ORM, LM 77, OOS, no ties, Complete 8/3.
First available date was 12/6/2021. Is the first round of decisions still released mid-December? @CWRU.Sman
Would these interview dates qualify for this round?

Thrilled to have this opportunity! I have aspired to interview at CC for nearly two years.
 
msummer said:
II just now (CC Lerner), ORM, LM 77, OOS, no ties, Complete 8/3.
First available date was 12/6/2021. Is the first round of decisions still released mid-December? Would these interview dates qualify for this round? @CWRU.Sman Thrilled to have this opportunity! I have aspired to interview at CC for nearly two years.
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LET'S GOOOO
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
Seems like this is a school that generally goes in order of complete date?

So I think that in contrast to other schools, II timing may not mean much here aside from the fact that later interviews are likely for fewer spots
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Yes, I definitely wish I had submitted my secondary either. My friend, who submit her secondary over two weeks earlier than me, got an II a month and a half ago for early October. Hoping my II is still soon enough to hit the first round of decisions.
 
skimm said:
Curious if someone can help me make sense of the waitlist. If we are waitlisted now, and according to Case, there is little movement until May, a February interviewee would be assessed on their own merits for acceptance rather than in comparison to those on the waitlist, no? Moreover, a February interviewee would conceivably be a less competitive applicant than a September interviewee, so getting waitlisted now is harsher than a "you weren't as competitive as your other first-round competitive interviewees" and is actually a "you are not competitive enough to fit our definition of an applicant we want to accept," right?

I guess I can't understand how a September interviewee (presumably a quite competitive applicant) would not again be heavily considered until May (when students must begin turning down acceptances) while a December/Jan/Feb interviewee (conceivably markedly less competitive on paper) could receive an acceptance with no consideration given to the September interviewees on the waitlist unless those waitlisted were perceived rather negatively in their interviews OR Case is just comparing applicants to some theoretical standard and not to each other(in which case getting waitlisted now sucks). I guess my confusion is based on understanding what amount of assessment is relative to other applicants vs what amount is relative to some gold standard for an accepted applicant. Anyone have any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Applicants who interview in Dec/Jan/Feb aren't any less competitive. If you're getting an interview, you're competitive whether you come in September or February. We just don't fill our spots in Sept and Oct so as to keep our process fair and equitable to everyone who interviews with us no matter when your interview is scheduled. Bottomline, when we're making acceptance offers we have to draw the line somewhere. I know this is an excruciatingly drawn out application process.
 
silverjon said:
Does anyone know if Case accepts update letters and if so, where to submit them?
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The University and College Program only accepts updates if you are invited for an interview. MSTP does accept update letters. If we opened up the option to allow for updates to UP and CP, the flood gates would open. It already takes a long time to review everything in AMCAS & the secondary. If we were to add on reading multiple uploaded documents, it would slow things down even more. We have plenty of information in the application to render a decision.
 
msummer said:
II just now (CC Lerner), ORM, LM 77, OOS, no ties, Complete 8/3.
First available date was 12/6/2021. Is the first round of decisions still released mid-December? @CWRU.Sman
Would these interview dates qualify for this round?

Thrilled to have this opportunity! I have aspired to interview at CC for nearly two years.
Click to expand...
They still do two acceptance dates - December and February. Not sure if 12/6 will make the cut for the December notifications? Many factors go into their acceptance process so I'm sure they'll let you know on the interview day.
 
@CWRU.Sman Can you comment on the order in which Case Western evaluates applicants? I have a friend whose primary was verified a month after me who heard back before me so it doesn't seem purely based on the date of application completion, so I was curious.
 
Am I at a significant disadvantage at CWRU UP/CP if I only submitted my complete app this month?
 
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CWRU.Sman said:
Almost all apps get more than one screen. The handoff from one screener to another can take time, especially if one screener has several apps to review. Also, some apps go to a "tie-breaker" discussion with the screening committee. It can be multifactorial. We're working as fast as we can!
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Thank you so much! I really appreciate it 🙂
 
Conics98 said:
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it 🙂
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From what I know, the three things that generally affect review priority are URM, high stat, and school/state ties.
 
msummer said:
From what I know, the three things that generally affect review priority are URM, high stat, and school/state ties.
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Well I'm certainly nada on the first two but reeeee on the third. That said Case is private so who knows
 
Does anyone who interviewed here remember if they mentioned a specific range of need-based financial aid scholarships that they offer applicants? I know it's a bit early to think about financial aid $$ but I was curious.
 
Conics98 said:
Well I'm certainly nada on the first two but reeeee on the third. That said Case is private so who knows
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For private institutions, school ties matter more then state ties. State ties can matter a bit too in that it gives you a clear reason to want to go to that school, but it's definitely a much more minor factor than in public schools.
 
Does anyone know how they are looking at International/Canadian applicants? I love the CWRU learning-style! It mirrors my UG program learning style closely with 'PBL/group' learning. Are we looked at later on in the cycle?
 
cal#ssuck said:
Did anyone ever confirm what was ultimately said on that Zoom call last week? I was invited but didn't attend because of work. Really curious was they said.
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It was most likely an acceptance that they were told not to advertise. One person was unable to attend the call and later got accepted. Those who weren't on the call were waitlisted or rejected.
 
sadwinter said:
It was most likely an acceptance that they were told not to advertise. One person was unable to attend the call and later got accepted. Those who weren't on the call were waitlisted or rejected.
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I know I guy who got a zoom call from the 15th that did get waitlisted though. I legit have no clue what's up with that call anymore.
 
Plankton2 said:
I know I guy who got a zoom call from the 15th that did get waitlisted though. I legit have no clue what's up with that call anymore.
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Bruhh what lolol. Can you ask him what was even said there.
Part of me hopes I get admitted here just so I can ask people in that zoom call what happened.
 
yayahey said:
Maybe the guy who got "waitlisted" was just trolling. Otherwise, was the meeting just like "CONGRATULATIONS EVERYONE, YOU'VE BEEN ACCEPTED!!! Except for you, we're putting you on the waitlist. BUT CONGRATZ EVERYONE ELSE!!!!!" lolol
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Yea, apparently last year multiple people who were supposedly at the meeting got waitlisted, and multiple others got accepted. However, neither said anyone else at their meeting got anything different.

Which actually makes me wonder- maybe there were two seperate zoom meetings at the same time, one for waitlisted and one for accepted. This whole time, we've been assuming there was just one lol.
 
sadwinter said:
Yea, apparently last year multiple people who were supposedly at the meeting got waitlisted, and multiple others got accepted. However, neither said anyone else at their meeting got anything different.

Which actually makes me wonder- maybe there were two seperate zoom meetings at the same time, one for waitlisted and one for accepted. This whole time, we've been assuming there was just one lol.
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This is precisely what my friend said. They said that it was very well done, polite, and professional though. It definitely met that "Case Western Standard." They also went on to say that the different zoom invites must be sent on the same day, and maybe even at the same time.
 
Plankton2 said:
This is precisely what my friend said. They said that it was very well done, polite, and professional though. It definitely met that "Case Western Standard." They also went on to say that the different zoom invites must be sent on the same day, and maybe even at the same time.
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So I suppose the conclusion from this is- if you get a zoom link, you are either accepted or waitlisted, no way to tell which. If you receive no zoom link, then you are rejected.
 
olivegreeneyes said:
@CWRU.Sman - would you be able to give us some idea of what percentage of interview invites have been sent already? I was complete around the end of August, and keep wondering if schools will ever get to that date if all IIs are 'used up' before they get to me!
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it's unlikely that end of August will remain unseen before all II slots are "used up". imo anyway. I'm not sure about CWRU main, but Cleveland Clinic sent me an II last week, and I was complete early August. I would guess that end of August would be seen by mid-December at the latest (assuming high stats, ORM)
 
Sup y'all, I'm a current M1 at Case and I'm happy to answer any questions you might have about the curriculum, Case in general, or Cleveland!
 
i did not receive a zoom link and was put on the alternate list so thats not entirely true! this has no method as far as im concerned
 
milo1130 said:
i did not receive a zoom link and was put on the alternate list so thats not entirely true! this has no method as far as im concerned
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Ok I give up lol
 
Plankton2 said:
How cool is the Hololens?
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Kinda overrated. I'm using it right now, but in my opinion the best way to learn anatomy is longitudinally with cadavers. You develop a better blueprint for where things are in relationship to each other on a real body

It is cool though and makes me feel like I'm in Star Trek
 
EpilepticRat said:
Kinda overrated. I'm using it right now, but in my opinion the best way to learn anatomy is longitudinally with cadavers. You develop a better blueprint for where things are in relationship to each other on a real body

It is cool though and makes me feel like I'm in Star Trek
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What do you mean by longitudinally? Like throughout the year?
 
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