Stanford vs. Harvard vs. Penn

[md2010hopeful]

Sorry to make another one of these threads but none of my friends are pre-med and I really need help with this decision. Whenever I feel like I start leaning one way, I think of a reason why I should go to another school. I'm so torn. Very happy and fortunate to be in this position but torn nonetheless.

(And I can't go to any of the re visits which makes this all harder).

Anyone (preferably without a vested interest) have some insight?

PM me if you don't feel comfortable sharing with the whole crowd

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[Charcoal]

I am actually most curious as to why you are interested in Penn? I was just accepted to Penn and think I will go but if I had your choice, I might not...

 

[FluffyRabbit]

I am actually most curious as to why you are interested in Penn? I was just accepted to Penn and think I will go but if I had your choice, I might not...

Having been rejected from all three, I might not be the best person to ask, but isn't Penn the only one with preclinical grades? If I had to pick between them, it would be Harvard or Stanford.

 

[pelliper]

i have no vested interest so im just going to say, unless you really want palo alto or philly rather than boston...stanford is stanford and penn is penn...but harvard is harvard

 

[md2010hopeful]

Why am I interested in Penn? Hmmmm. I really liked the feel of the class. I'm not a person who is easily wowed by a name and I think that fit is the most important. Is that why you ask? Because Harvard is more prestigious? Or is there something else about Penn I don't know that makes it less desirable?

 

[eeeeee]

HG,

Go to HMS.

-ES

 

[mdeast]

Having been rejected from all three, I might not be the best person to ask, but isn't Penn the only one with preclinical grades? If I had to pick between them, it would be Harvard or Stanford.

This is true. But Penn Med kids are not competitive. And I think it's just P/F/Honors where anyone can get honors.

 

[alibai3ah]

i have no vested interest so im just going to say, unless you really want palo alto or philly rather than boston...stanford is stanford and penn is penn...but harvard is harvard

California>>>>>>>>>>>East Coast

As someone who grew up in Palo Alto, how could you not want to be here

 

[searun]

I would go to the med school that provided me with the best financial aid package. If money was not a consideration, I would go to Harvard, with Stanford a close second because of location and weather. What can you say, these are three fantastic med schools.

 

[Naijaba]

I got rejected from HMS and waitlisted at Stanford. For a moment I was really bummed about the HMS rejection...but realistically Stanford was my first choice going in for several reasons:

1. Computer Science Research Opportunities
2. California (Born and raised.)
3. Low Tuition

I could go on, but I don't want you to pick Stanford because I want to get off of the waitlist : )

 

[GoodmanBrown]

I would go to the med school that provided me with the best financial aid package. If money was not a consideration, I would go to Harvard, with Stanford a close second because of location and weather. What can you say, these are three fantastic med schools.

+1

All three of these will open any doors you want, as long as you fulfill your end of the bargain by getting decent grades, rocking Step 1, research, etc. So, it comes down to money and extras. Extras include fit, weather, etc.

 

[Otiose]

I have a very similar decision to make...in at penn and stanford, waitlisted harvard, and some other schools are in the mix. All three schools are fantastic and have great reputations but i think you should really go where you feel the most comfortable. I vote penn! you said so yourself that the name isn't going to be a deciding factor and i think you should stick to that. I'm from California and currently live in Philly. I would love love love to go back to california but I'm leaning away from Stanford for several reasons: it's really research heavy which is great if that's what you're in to, it's not in an urban area and consequently you'll end up having to travel to see a diverse patient population; the people at stanford and harvard were kinda....not the most exciting people i'd ever met. The people at penn by comparison were awesome and had lives outside of school that they actively maintained...everyone seemed happy to be there! Go to penn!

 

[JasonE]

this one's a no brainer, go HMS

not for the name, but for the city

 

[jerew]

My background: Accepted Harvard HST, Rejected Stanford, Waitlisted Penn

My opinion: Stanford for location, research focus, and financial aid. If you are in HST, that is a really unique program that you probably love or hate, and would decide from there. Otherwise, if it were NP vs. Stanford, I would take Stanford personally, just because you'll get the same at both, but one is in Cali, other is in NE.

 

[JasonE]

My background: Accepted Harvard HST, Rejected Stanford, Waitlisted Penn

My opinion: Stanford for location, research focus, and financial aid. If you are in HST, that is a really unique program that you probably love or hate, and would decide from there. Otherwise, if it were NP vs. Stanford, I would take Stanford personally, just because you'll get the same at both, but one is in Cali, other is in NE.

while stanford is in cali, palo alto isnt supposed to be the most exciting area. and ur a good distance from SF so personally id say boston wins.

 

[metallica81788]

Disclaimer - I did not apply to any of these schools.

They're all great, especially in the research aspect, so you can't go wrong on that part.

As for the clinical part, you might as well just throw Stanford out - I've read that their facilities are dated and it's just not emphasized as much as it would be at Harvard or Penn. But if you don't care about that, then just pick on which one feels better.

Good luck, you have nice choices.

 

[SpaceDementia]

Harvard.

 

[Naijaba]

I'll give you a dollar for your Stanford acceptance.

 

[alibai3ah]

while stanford is in cali, palo alto isnt supposed to be the most exciting area. and ur a good distance from SF so personally id say boston wins.

Palo Alto may not be the most exciting but you are

1) 20 minutes away from SF (A GREAT CITY), 1.5 hour away from Napa, 2-3 hours away from Lake Tahoe. In the epicenter of the silicon valley and the tech world.
2) MUCH MUCH better weather, where the 6 month long winters in Boston will most likely keep you indoors anyways
3) Palo Alto is a fairly posh upper-middle class area, so safety will never be an issue.
4) Stanford has actual sports (Pac10) vs. Harvard hasn't been in sports news since like god knows how long.
5) It's California.....like come on.

I grew up in Palo Alto so I feel like I need to defend the area. Especially considering ironically I'm most likely heading to medical school in Boston this fall....

 

[BlueElmo]

I'll give you a dollar for your Stanford acceptance.

Only a dollar?

 

[sunshining]

first of all, CONGRATULATIONS!!! i don't think you could hear that word enough to recognize just how proud and happy you should be with these acceptances!
secondly, re: your final decision. i really don't think you could make a wrong decision. what is most important is that once you make up your mind, you should NEVER wonder "what if i chose the other school?" instead, you should be simply overjoyed to be wherever you end up! ...that's a vague answer to your question, i know. so here is my suggestion: what if you called/emailed your hosts and asked them for advice? or ask them if they could refer you to another classmate who was in a similar situation. i think you would get a better answer from current med students from those three schools, then from any of the pre-meds on thus forum!

 

[FutureDoc17]

I'll give you a dollar for your Stanford acceptance.

I'll raise to five.

 

[dotdash]

It's a win-win for you, Harvard vs. Stanford. Maybe you have to know what is important to you. Harvard for prestige, Stanford for happiness (biking in the foothills, weather, relaxed life, beautiful setting). Good luck!

 

[Naijaba]

i'll raise to five.

$25.00

 

[sunshining]

oh! and another factor to consider is how you like to spend your free time. since free time may be limited in med school, you surely want to enjoy it when you do have it! so look into what each are has to offer, and what fits your personality the best (activities/hobbies you would like to continue and some that you would like to try)!

 

[JJMrK]

Stanford has one of the lowest student debt averages of any school. I don't think I could pass that up.

 

[Bbon]

What a terrible dilemma to have. I can imagine all the hours of sleep you must be losing toiling over this painful process.

I wasn't fortunate enough to even get interviewed at Stanford or Harvard, but I really liked Penn. Funny to hear the comments from people basically dismissing Penn as the no-name of the group. Well I guess in comparison to a school that's so prestigious, its students are embarrassed to say they go there (Harvard), maybe it is.

 

[JasonE]

penn is one of those schools where it seems that ppl actually have a life outside of schoolwork

 

[metallica81788]

What a terrible dilemma to have. I can imagine all the hours of sleep you must be losing toiling over this painful process.

I wasn't fortunate enough to even get interviewed at Stanford or Harvard, but I really liked Penn. Funny to hear the comments from people basically dismissing Penn as the no-name of the group. Well I guess in comparison to a school that's so prestigious, its students are embarrassed to say they go there (Harvard), maybe it is.

Once again, didn't apply to any of these, but...

I would choose Penn over all of them. I almost applied, and I should have - even though I had no shot.

 

[Medgirl55]

A lot of people would love to be in your position, but what they don't realize is that it STILL is a VERY hard decision to make! For me I'd say:

Harvard (name, prestige, Boston)
Penn = Stanford (depends on curriculum and also money and weather. But Penn is ranked higher and is an Ivy)

Honestly all are great. That's a bummer you can't go to second look cuz that would probably really help you. Maybe you can email students who go there and ask questions and try to base ur decisions on location/curriculum/fit/specific programs.

 

[jturkel]

go to HAAAHrrrvahhhd. seriously though.

Harvard (top school) + Boston (best college city/town for both grad/undergrad; amazing night life) + best seafood and other food + sports (celts, sox, and patriots...i mean come on)

Penn is in the ghettooo. Still great school. If you are interested in dual degrees...this could be one to go to for an MD/MBA.

Stanford = harvard of the west (at least for undergrad). clinical limiting though. CA weather is tough to beat and it is certainly better than Boston weather....but let's be honest here....you're studying in medical school and working in a hospital....how much time are you going to spend on a daily basis outside besides perhaps walking to and from class or the library?

 

[jla314]

penn is one of those schools where it seems that ppl actually have a life outside of schoolwork

actually if the OP is accepted to harvard NP, he/she will have a lot of free time. it's lots of PBL and very chill/flexible to encourage you to develop outside interests and take advantage of harvard's many extracurricular opportunities.

 

[naijaboi]

I'll go with Harvard. The interview day might suck, but I have been told that the entering class is usually really chill. Their biggest strength is the cohesiveness and friendliness of their student body. I know several Harvard Medical Students and I have bee around HMS for a while, and in my experience this is mostly true.

Boston is an awesome city - compact enough to be walkable, but dense enough to have many attractions and things to do. You will be happy in Boston.

But all are excellent schools and you cannot go wrong with either. I think it should come down to location and financial aid (and maybe class size).

 

[mdeast]

Palo Alto may not be the most exciting but you are

1) 20 minutes away from SF (A GREAT CITY), 1.5 hour away from Napa, 2-3 hours away from Lake Tahoe. In the epicenter of the silicon valley and the tech world.
2) MUCH MUCH better weather, where the 6 month long winters in Boston will most likely keep you indoors anyways
3) Palo Alto is a fairly posh upper-middle class area, so safety will never be an issue.
4) Stanford has actual sports (Pac10) vs. Harvard hasn't been in sports news since like god knows how long.
5) It's California.....like come on.

I grew up in Palo Alto so I feel like I need to defend the area. Especially considering ironically I'm most likely heading to medical school in Boston this fall....

20 minutes from downtown SF? It's more like 45 minutes. There's a big difference. Although, there's no arguing that Stanford is downright gorgeous.

I'd say they're all amazing schools. I interviewed at Penn and Stanford (waitlisted at both), but was rejected pre-interview from Harvard. If I really got into Harvard, I think I'd personally go there over Penn and Stanford. I have a friend from high school that goes there, and it just sounds incredible from the things she's told me.

Are you interested in research at all? While Penn has greater NIH funding than Stanford, Stanford has a higher concentration of top leaders in their field and a more encouraging/intimate research focused curriculum (they want you to get out class and go into lab and discovery the next big medical innovation...this is Silicon Valley). Harvard beats them both with respect to research availability and funding with somewhere along the lines of 1.2 billion annually from the NIH, near limitless top laboratories, close connections to MIT...there's really no beating it. Given that Boston is a great city to be a grad student in, as it's relatively manageable, has a lot of young people, and things to do when you're free (it's beautiful in the summer....but BRRRRR in the winter remember). I'd say I personally like Philly a bit more from the cost perspective, but I think both the NP and HST programs are so unique and given the limitless opportunities, the Harvard name (which yes, does have an effect), the resources of the university, access to MGH and Children's Hospital Boston, it'd be a really tough sell for me to not chose Harvard.

But, I still love Penn and Stanford

 

[RevivedPreMed]

I've never been to California but I would probably never choose to live there because I have no desire to be at risks for earthquakes, mud slides, land slides, etc. etc.

My boyfriend goes to Penn dental so I frequent Philly and the Penn campus a lot and I have a house in Mass because Boston happens to be my favorite place in the world.

I would choose Harvard not just because of the name, but the location. Boston is very accessible and has so many things to offer. It is not one of those big cities where you feel unsafe traveling around or feel the need to hold your purse so close that it makes an indentation on your body. Also, most everything in Boston is accessible with public transportation or can be walked to. I can go on and on about things to do in Boston but I'll just mention one... If you like italian food, then Boston is where to be. The north end is street by street filled with all kinds of italian restaurants and bakeries.

The Penn campus is lovely and Philly has so much to offer with shopping/bars/dining...that is, if you aren't afraid to venture out. The crime and scary parts of Philly are no stranger to Penn students because both the dental school and the medical school are located on the outskirts, close to the regular population. There have been several stabbings pretty much on campus just these past few months. Also, most everything fun to do at night will require a cab because it is just not safe to take the subways at night. I'm not talking just from a girl's perspective because my boyfriend and all of his male classmates don't do it either.

 

[RevivedPreMed]

Honestly, I would say just go with your gut. There has to be one out of the three that your stomach fluttered with the most excitement when you got accepted.

 

[mdeast]

I've never been to California but I would probably never choose to live there because I have no desire to be at risks for earthquakes, mud slides, land slides, etc. etc.

My boyfriend goes to Penn dental so I frequent Philly and the Penn campus a lot and I have a house in Mass because Boston happens to be my favorite place in the world.

I would choose Harvard not just because of the name, but the location. Boston is very accessible and has so many things to offer. It is not one of those big cities where you feel unsafe traveling around or feel the need to hold your purse so close that it makes an indentation on your body. Also, most everything in Boston is accessible with public transportation or can be walked to. I can go on and on about things to do in Boston but I'll just mention one... If you like italian food, then Boston is where to be. The north end is street by street filled with all kinds of italian restaurants and bakeries.

The Penn campus is lovely and Philly has so much to offer with shopping/bars/dining...that is, if you aren't afraid to venture out. The crime and scary parts of Philly are no stranger to Penn students because both the dental school and the medical school are located on the outskirts, close to the regular population. There have been several stabbings pretty much on campus just these past few months. Also, most everything fun to do at night will require a cab because it is just not safe to take the subways at night. I'm not talking just from a girl's perspective because my boyfriend and all of his male classmates don't do it either.

I will slightly disagree with your last statements about Penn. University City used to be an unsafe place back in the day, but it's actually a pretty good area of the city as of now (compare it's location to Temple Med for instance). Penn has the largest university police department in the United States, and they actually position officers on most street corners at night. There have not been any stabbings in U.City recently to my knowledge, although there was a biomedical graduate student who was bizarrely mugged and beaten at like 7 AM in the morning a month or so ago, but this is becoming very rare. I walk around U.City and West Philly (and the medical school...which isn't on the outskirts but actually right next to the central area of campus) late at night if I'm in lab late, and I never have felt unsafe. Philly is becoming extremely gentrified and the great feel of Center City is slowly pushing it's ways Northward, Southward, and Westward. About 10 years ago 40th street was the cut off for safe neighborhoods, but this has largely stretched out towards 46th/47th street as students continue to take up housing there. 40th street itself now houses a stretch of hip restaurants (including a Jose Garces restaurant...Iron Chef anyone?), new condominiums, a luxury movie theatre, etc.

Most Penn students lives in Rittenhouse Square/Graduate Hospital...and about 1/3 will live in West Philly/U.City....more so for the M1 year as many will move over from U.City to Center City afterwards. You can walk just about anyplace in Center City from Rittenhouse...catch a trolley, subway, or cab (they're relatively inexpensive if you're in a group of people) to other areas of the city. Philly is relatively car friendly if you live in the right area, so I tend to drive most places that are farther (Old City, Northern Liberties) if I go out there. If drinking is in order, there are night buses at night that send me home to the other end of Center City in about 10 minutes. If you're in a group of people though, again...cab prices are cheap and about equal to the $2/person bus fare.

 

[jerew]

BTW, did we clear up HST vs. NP for the OP? That seems pretty darn relevant, no?

 

[RevivedPreMed]

I will slightly disagree with your last statements about Penn. University City used to be an unsafe place back in the day, but it's actually a pretty good area of the city as of now (compare it's location to Temple Med for instance). Penn has the largest university police department in the United States, and they actually position officers on most street corners at night. There have not been any stabbings in U.City recently to my knowledge, although there was a biomedical graduate student who was bizarrely mugged and beaten at like 7 AM in the morning a month or so ago, but this is becoming very rare. I walk around U.City and West Philly (and the medical school...which isn't on the outskirts but actually right next to the central area of campus) late at night if I'm in lab late, and I never have felt unsafe. Philly is becoming extremely gentrified and the great feel of Center City is slowly pushing it's ways Northward, Southward, and Westward. About 10 years ago 40th street was the cut off for safe neighborhoods, but this has largely stretched out towards 46th/47th street as students continue to take up housing there. 40th street itself now houses a stretch of hip restaurants (including a Jose Garces restaurant...Iron Chef anyone?), new condominiums, a luxury movie theatre, etc.

Most Penn students lives in Rittenhouse Square/Graduate Hospital...and about 1/3 will live in West Philly/U.City....more so for the M1 year as many will move over from U.City to Center City afterwards. You can walk just about anyplace in Center City from Rittenhouse...catch a trolley, subway, or cab (they're relatively inexpensive if you're in a group of people) to other areas of the city. Philly is relatively car friendly if you live in the right area, so I tend to drive most places that are farther (Old City, Northern Liberties) if I go out there. If drinking is in order, there are night buses at night that send me home to the other end of Center City in about 10 minutes. If you're in a group of people though, again...cab prices are cheap and about equal to the $2/person bus fare.

As I mentioned, my information is coming from my experiences as well as my boyfriend and his classmates. About the stabbings, two come to mind. One was a postdoctoral dental student and another was a robbing/stabbing (or shooting I can't remember) at the movie theater (both events were on UPenn campus and both happened within the past few months).
Also my boyfriend pulled that same line about police officers being at every street corner when he was trying to convince me that it was a good choice school for him but once he started going there he admitted that it was bull and that they aren't as available as they claim to be.

BTW 40th st is where all those incidents occurred.

Personally, I don't want to live in a city where I get thoroughly harassed by homeless people and people drugged up every time I walk two feet to the grocery store. My boyfriend was all about Philly when he moved there and hates to admit that I was right about a lot of stuff but even he has told me how uncomfortable it is to walk anywhere alone.

 

[RevivedPreMed]

Also, another weird/annoying thing about Philly is that you cannot buy wine at the grocery store. So if you plan on cooking with wine you have to make a separate trip to the sketchy liquor stores. The one closest to my boyfriend is in such a bad area they take a cab there and only go during the day.

 

[jla314]

Also, another weird/annoying thing about Philly is that you cannot buy wine at the grocery store. So if you plan on cooking with wine you have to make a separate trip to the sketchy liquor stores. The one closest to my boyfriend is in such a bad area they take a cab there and only go during the day.

it's the same in boston i believe

 

[thamsenman]

This is true. But Penn Med kids are not competitive. And I think it's just P/F/Honors where anyone can get honors.

I know a Penn Med girl who cut off all her relationships with human beings so that she could study without interruption.

 

[RevivedPreMed]

it's the same in boston i believe

I can't speak for boston but in the area of Mass where my house is you can buy wine at the grocery stores. I just assumed laws like that were statewide mandates.

 

[jla314]

I can't speak for boston but in the area of Mass where my house is you can buy wine at the grocery stores. I just assumed laws like that were statewide mandates.

hmm strange maybe it's just in cambridge

 

[bookfreak89]

I've never been to California but I would probably never choose to live there because I have no desire to be at risks for earthquakes, mud slides, land slides, etc. etc.

My boyfriend goes to Penn dental so I frequent Philly and the Penn campus a lot and I have a house in Mass because Boston happens to be my favorite place in the world.

I would choose Harvard not just because of the name, but the location. Boston is very accessible and has so many things to offer. It is not one of those big cities where you feel unsafe traveling around or feel the need to hold your purse so close that it makes an indentation on your body. Also, most everything in Boston is accessible with public transportation or can be walked to. I can go on and on about things to do in Boston but I'll just mention one... If you like italian food, then Boston is where to be. The north end is street by street filled with all kinds of italian restaurants and bakeries.

The Penn campus is lovely and Philly has so much to offer with shopping/bars/dining...that is, if you aren't afraid to venture out. The crime and scary parts of Philly are no stranger to Penn students because both the dental school and the medical school are located on the outskirts, close to the regular population. There have been several stabbings pretty much on campus just these past few months. Also, most everything fun to do at night will require a cab because it is just not safe to take the subways at night. I'm not talking just from a girl's perspective because my boyfriend and all of his male classmates don't do it either.

As someone from California and who goes to school on the East Coast, this is the first time I have heard someone bring that up as a reason not to attend Stanford. I wonder why that is? Anyways, Stanford is great, Penn is great, and Harvard is great. If financial aid is about equal, prestige + Boston wins out, I suppose (despite being a PBL school )

 

[RevivedPreMed]

it's the same in boston i believe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States_by_state#cite_note-5
Googled it.

 

[RevivedPreMed]

As someone from California and who goes to school on the East Coast, this is the first time I have heard someone bring that up as a reason not to attend Stanford. I wonder why that is? Anyways, Stanford is great, Penn is great, and Harvard is great. If financial aid is about equal, prestige + Boston wins out, I suppose (despite being a PBL school )

Well I grew up in Florida and went to school in the north east so hurricanes and blizzards are fine with me. I appreciate them because you usually get fair warning. It would freak me out to live somewhere where there are earthquakes or tornadoes because there really isn't that much warning and you almost always lose everything if you're in the way of it.

Hurricanes and Blizzards can be damaging but you can prepare and minimize the life altering effects.

Just my crazy opinion, although with the climate and weather going crazier and crazier each year, I may not be that crazy in avoiding high risk areas.

 

[alibai3ah]

I've never been to California but I would probably never choose to live there because I have no desire to be at risks for earthquakes, mud slides, land slides, etc. etc.

Um mud slides and land slides.....where do you think is? In terms of weather, California is leagues above Boston. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. -5 degree weather, ridiculous amount of rainfall/snow, etc. is what I expect from Boston. No beaches, no sunlight, no shorts and T-shirts, and the selection of girls is probably not as good either (if you were worried about that)

But on the positives, Boston is a awesome city. It's very old and cultured and seems like a good change (at least for me). And Boston also has sports teams that win unlike the Bay Area

To the OP, maybe you want to think about where you want to do your residency. In terms of prestige, I don't think Harvard beats Penn/Stanford by a lot. Yes it's a great institution, but so is Stanford and so is Penn. If you want to be in California, I strongly suggest you go to Stanford. If you want to do your residency in the East Coast area then maybe Penn and Harvard might be the place for you.

 

[alibai3ah]

20 minutes from downtown SF? It's more like 45 minutes. There's a big difference. Although, there's no arguing that Stanford is downright gorgeous.

45 minutes?? Are you taking Caltrain? It's never taken me more then 20-30 minutes tops to downtown SF (unless there is traffic).

 

[RevivedPreMed]

Um mud slides and land slides.....where do you think is? In terms of weather, California is leagues above Boston. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. -5 degree weather, ridiculous amount of rainfall/snow, etc. is what I expect from Boston. No beaches, no sunlight, no shorts and T-shirts, and the selection of girls is probably not as good either (if you were worried about that)

But on the positives, Boston is a awesome city. It's very old and cultured and seems like a good change (at least for me). And Boston also has sports teams that win unlike the Bay Area

To the OP, maybe you want to think about where you want to do your residency. In terms of prestige, I don't think Harvard beats Penn/Stanford by a lot. Yes it's a great institution, but so is Stanford and so is Penn. If you want to be in California, I strongly suggest you go to Stanford. If you want to do your residency in the East Coast area then maybe Penn and Harvard might be the place for you.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/weather/02/10/california.mudslides/index.html