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"How would you navigate uncertainty from the perspectives of either a patient, a physician, or medicine?" (2650 characters)
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2016-2017 University of Utah Application Thread
- Thread starter WedgeDawg
- Start date
MSIII here at the U, happy to answer any questions. As I'm a couple years removed from the application process I can probably better answer school related questions than application centered ones.
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Hey Zhopv10! Very interested in this school, wondering from your inside experience what the out of state student situation is like. In other words, not whether it's worth applying or not, but more about the feel of how hard it is and what faculty have said, etc. It's a school I am very interested in for a variety of reasons, so I remain confident i'll apply but just curious!
Also, any experience with any of the backpacking medicine and other backcountry medicine electives?
Also, any experience with any of the backpacking medicine and other backcountry medicine electives?
I'm an instate student myself so probably not the best person to ask in this regard, I'm sure somebody else can chime in. Based on what I've seen in my class I feel the in state students are as accepted as anyone else and we all get along great. If the atmosphere is what you were getting at I feel that in general we have a very teamwork oriented, helpful, warm atmosphere here. We are always sharing notes, helping each other out etc, it's awesome! There is some flux in that from class to class of course but in general that is the kind of feel that the school tries to generate I think. In terms of faculty there is are tons of opportunities to find research and mentors in virtually any field, in state or out of state, not sure if that is what you were getting at. The downside to that I'm sure your aware of is the tuition, it's steep for out of state but that's kind of par for the course for a state school.
I unfortunately don't have experience with the wilderness medicine (not my area of medicine I'm interested in) however from what I hear they are really stellar! I know the faculty that helps with them are supposed to be really good and I personally haven't heard anything g negative about them but again take that with a grain of salt. Hope that helps some what sorry I couldn't offer more insight there, let me know if there is anything else you would like clarified!
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Thanks a lot, man. I was more getting at if you hear through the grapevine that it takes a lot in your favor to get in from out of state, type of deal. I know it's tough to get in out of state at most places, but I was just trying to get an idea of specifically at Utah what it's like. No worries either way, I appreciate your response very much! Best of luck going forward for you, seems like an awesome place to be.
Ah got ya sorry, so it is tough of course to get in out of state due to the limited number of spots. There used to be more emphasis on ties to the state for the out of state positions but that has loosened up as of late. That I know of (again I'm a bit removed from the process) there isn't anything in particular that biases them towards certain out of state students. That being said I think ties to the state are important and why you want to come here as an out of state student will come up in the interview and it will be important to answer it well (I.e. Awesome location, although being entirely true, is not a complete answer, but I'm sure you knew that
) if you're looking for some interesting things about the program itself I highly recommend looking at some of the articles that Vivian Lee our incredible dean has done and is doing. It's very exciting to see happening and be a part of! Also, as I'm sure you know since the requirements for out of state students has loosened there was a significant jump in OOS student applications meaning it's helpful to have a highly competitive application. Notice I said competitive and not necessarily stellar stats. Our school takes a highly holistic approach to the application process and while high stats certainly can help they are not what will make or break you. Each part, from your PS to your secondary is vital. Basically, it's a tough road, but it's certainly possible and that I know of there isn't any true "bias" for certain OOS students that I know of (although having ties to the state is probably somewhat helpful). Hopefully that helps. Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
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I'll say too while we're somewhat on the topic here: it is VITAL that you have a well thought out and executed PS and secondary essay. They will look at your grammar, how well thought out it is, how compelling it is etc.
I feel that this emphasis changes a little by school but here it is heavy. Dr. Chan had openly addressed this in his podcasts so you can definitely bet that it is true. I personally like to give the advice to "show not tell" in these essays. Illustrate what you have learned and how you have grown throughout the process. It's easy to get hung up on what makes you "diverse" but remember that it is the stories and experiences that have shaped who we are and what are motivations are. No two people have had those experienced and pulled the same things from them as you so really put in the time and effort to find your "brand" and portray it.
Sorry didn't mean to drag on there or be overly verbose but I feel that this is a very important topic that makes it very easy to weed an application if adequate time and effort is not put in. (As a reference I believe I started writing my PS 3 months before applications and went through some 40 odd drafts. Not saying most people need anywhere near that much time, or that I'm anything special, that's far from true, just illustrating the importance of a well thought out application).
Hope that is somewhat helpful to you all, good luck with applications, interviews and the whole bit! It's a frankly horrible process but it's does end! Again feel free to ask anything and I'll answer to the best of my ability.
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I feel that this emphasis changes a little by school but here it is heavy. Dr. Chan had openly addressed this in his podcasts so you can definitely bet that it is true. I personally like to give the advice to "show not tell" in these essays. Illustrate what you have learned and how you have grown throughout the process. It's easy to get hung up on what makes you "diverse" but remember that it is the stories and experiences that have shaped who we are and what are motivations are. No two people have had those experienced and pulled the same things from them as you so really put in the time and effort to find your "brand" and portray it.
Sorry didn't mean to drag on there or be overly verbose but I feel that this is a very important topic that makes it very easy to weed an application if adequate time and effort is not put in. (As a reference I believe I started writing my PS 3 months before applications and went through some 40 odd drafts. Not saying most people need anywhere near that much time, or that I'm anything special, that's far from true, just illustrating the importance of a well thought out application).
Hope that is somewhat helpful to you all, good luck with applications, interviews and the whole bit! It's a frankly horrible process but it's does end! Again feel free to ask anything and I'll answer to the best of my ability.
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Thanks a lot, I appreciate your genuine concern and advice moving forward. You did not drag on -- I think many will benefit from knowing some inside advice.
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I'm an international myself (Canada) and I actually contacted them and asked to make sure. I'm in a bit of a unique position as I've done my undergrad at a school in Utah, and they told me that I would be considered basically as any other OOS would be. They also told me that they have 15 spots reserved for OOS applicants who have graduated from either a Utah high school or college. MSAR says that last year they only accepted 30 OOS, and I've heard elsewhere that they also have some seats reserved for Idaho residents, so if you're an OOS that's not from Idaho and you haven't graduated from somewhere in Utah, I think you're probably competing for a really small number of schools.
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First timer here, excited to be in the process. Good luck to all applying!
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GREETING! Best of luck to everyone. I have a question for faculty, alumni, current students, etc. To what extent can the school's curriculum be tailored to an individual's interest? For example, I am interested in academic medicine. How would the University of Utah assist me in becoming involved with that specific field?
Welcome! Current student here (MSIII). Just wanted to address a couple points.
1. The schools curriculum isn't tailored per se towards any one student, there are established principles they all Med students must learn (and are tested on in individual tests, STEP's, shelfs, etc). Now that being said there are clinical experiences, electives in your later years, career days, interest groups, etc all designed to help you discover your specialty and do what needs to be done to match into it. We also have a cool program here called ACE that teams you up with a mentor who is there to help you match in your desired specialty be that through help finding research, shadowing, networking, etc.
2. Now if you are interested in academic medicine (as an aside by this do you mean in general you want to be in academics in whatever specialty you decide? Academic medicine itself isn't a specialty unless you mean like academic internal medicine). Anyway, so I think the biggest thing for going into academics depends on the specialty. In my case research is a very big part of that. There are TONS of research opportunities here in whatever specialty you want and I suspect you wouldn't have a problem finding a mentor. Basically: I think for things like what specialty you want to go into it is a little less about the curriculum (although some schools teach more or less to the boards and that could be important I suppose, we are well trained here though for that) and more about what opportunities and resources are available to you. From what I've experienced here and seen from fellow classmates, if you put in the effort there is ample opportunity here! Hope that helps!
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Hey all!
I'm an upcoming MS1 at the U this fall. I've gone through this process a few times as I was not accepted my first or second round of applying. So first off, for the reapplicants out there, it can be done!
I don't have the time in at the school yet like @zhopv10 (who by the way I remember going through the application process with a few years ago! He (I'm assuming it's a he) is awesome!), but I do have some familiarity with the application process and I'm happy to share any advice or insight about this crazy process called medical school application, from secondaries to interview dates.
Anyway, thought I'd just chime in and join this thread, especially since my presence has kind of become a tradition on SDN's Utah application thread Anyway, good luck to you all!
I'm an upcoming MS1 at the U this fall. I've gone through this process a few times as I was not accepted my first or second round of applying. So first off, for the reapplicants out there, it can be done!
I don't have the time in at the school yet like @zhopv10 (who by the way I remember going through the application process with a few years ago! He (I'm assuming it's a he) is awesome!), but I do have some familiarity with the application process and I'm happy to share any advice or insight about this crazy process called medical school application, from secondaries to interview dates.
Anyway, thought I'd just chime in and join this thread, especially since my presence has kind of become a tradition on SDN's Utah application thread
Anyway, good luck to you all!Hey all!
I'm an upcoming MS1 at the U this fall. I've gone through this process a few times as I was not accepted my first or second round of applying. So first off, for the reapplicants out there, it can be done!
I don't have the time in at the school yet like @zhopv10 (who by the way I remember going through the application process with a few years ago! He (I'm assuming it's a he) is awesome!), but I do have some familiarity with the application process and I'm happy to share any advice or insight about this crazy process called medical school application, from secondaries to interview dates.
Anyway, thought I'd just chime in and join this thread, especially since my presence has kind of become a tradition on SDN's Utah application thread
Haha ya I think that was your first application cycle we were in together? I must admit, I totally did a major fist pump for you when I saw you got in!
awesome to see it happen for you, it's been a long journey, but we're certainly excited to have you on board! Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
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Yep, I think it was during my first cycle! That was a really fun thread! And thanks for cheering for me, I'm glad to finally be on board!Haha ya I think that was your first application cycle we were in together? I must admit, I totally did a major fist pump for you when I saw you got in!
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Just saw this posted on the Admissions Facebook page...
For those of you applying to #UUSOM, here is the secondary application essay question for the upcoming cycle. Character count will be 2650.
How would you navigate uncertainty from the perspectives of either a patient, a physician, or medicine?
We look forward to seeing your responses!
For those of you applying to #UUSOM, here is the secondary application essay question for the upcoming cycle. Character count will be 2650.
How would you navigate uncertainty from the perspectives of either a patient, a physician, or medicine?
We look forward to seeing your responses!
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2,650 eh? Very specific number there!
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I thought the same thing!
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What do you guys think this means? I know that quality of essays are important to them but are they being purposefully vague?
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Do they want you to respond to the prompt from all three perspectives? Or just pick one?
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Um... what? That's one confusing prompt.
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I believe the prompt would better be read as how will you navigate the uncertainty of this prompt... I am fine leaving the door open for interpretation but that is pretty vague even for those standards.
Hey guys, I had a bit of a break and thought i'd just throw in my 2 cents here, hope it's helpful. Whenever I see these prompts I like to think put myself in the shoes of the admissions admin and think "why do they want this prompt." Remember that one of the biggest things for them is finding students who won't drop out in essence. It takes a tremendous amount of money to train a medical student and the school has a lot invested in you when you start, and a lot invested in you finishing and helping promote their name even later in the long run. Thus, attrition is one of the key factors they want to avoid. Variables like past performance, your actual exposure to the field, dedication, etc can be evaluated (imperfectly of course) by a variety of factors on the application but I think the essays offer an option to look at some unique and perhaps more abstract principles that are important.
So with that in mind I think to myself, why is the admission committee interested in me sharing how I deal with uncertainty, or what i've gleaned from seeing others deal with it etc? Personally, I think this is an interesting prompt because it addresses something that becomes, IMO, unique in the professional school setting and that is a huge increase in uncertainty, that for some can really be quite jarring. So, seeing what you've learned about uncertainty and how you've dealt with it through various experiences offers the potential to gain insight into how you might deal with the inevitable uncertainty that you'll face in a career in medicine. Just a couple examples, the material we are learning has a certain level of uncertainty to it, there will be things you learn that we just don't know the why or the mechanism to yet, or recommendations that are changing, it sounds like a small point but it can be unsettling I think coming from the curriculum of university sciences sometimes. You'll face uncertainty on your future specialty, where you will live, what the market will be like, how reimbursement will change, how the field will change etc. You'll face uncertainty with grades that are sometimes subjective and out of your control in 3rd year, and as you go into the clinics you will pretty much live in a state of constant uncertainty haha. When people ask what 3rd year is like I think the best response i've heard is: "imagine you are starting a new job, every couple weeks at least, for a year." There will be uncertainty on what the expectations are for you, they are not always well defined as we often get used to with classroom learning, etc. Basically, you'll encounter lots and lots of uncertainty of one form or another, I guarantee it! So dealing with it becomes important.
As a fun personal example: In clinic the other day we were consulting on a complicated patient and the best form of therapy was really unclear. It was a major grey area in the literature and there were some pretty serious risk vs benefit considerations at play. In my literature search I came across a couple of recent studies suggesting that the risks might be lower in our patient than previously thought, and that extrapolating some other evidence the benefits could probably outweigh the risks. After discussing with the team they felt that this was probably true and sure enough in our presentation to the patient we discussed moving forward with therapy. Now in our rounding discussions i'll admit that part of me was thinking "awesome, i found something and contributed something interesting" (p.s. really not trying make it sound like what I did was particularly awesome or anything, it all came from discussion with the whole team, and much of it came from the attending experience, it was just a small part of the bigger discussion). Now, the key came when the attending was presenting to the patient, when I heard the sentence come out citing the study I discussed all of a sudden my perspective changed, being their with the pts family, and the pt, their being there in the hospital in such a vulnerable state, and suddenly realizing that that piece played a role in their life, and suddenly I felt my heart rate elevate and the adeline start to rush! I thought to myself, holy smokes did I review the evidence well enough?? Did I make sure and really glean the right conclusions from those papers?? I took comfort in knowing that the team was being led by experts and if they felt this was the way to proceed we were safe in doing so but wow, that all of a sudden made the uncertainty in treatment and uncertainty in the literature REAL. It wasn't just a fun puzzle to solve anymore, or fun literature to read anymore, and when lives are on the line that uncertainty becomes palpable. For me, it was both instructive and stressful, it moved me to be more careful in reading, more complete, and continue sharpening my data analysis skills as well as greater appreciating the importance of having a healthcare team. In the end though it makes the experience more fun I think. It makes my research more meaningful, being able to contribute answers, even small ones to help relieve the uncertainty that we as clinicians deal with everyday.
Anyway, it sounds more dramatic in writing then it really was, but thought maybe an example could be instructive. There is also huge uncertainty from the side of the patient, just imagine how they feel when a specialist tells them they are uncertain of what is going on with them, or uncertain of how to proceed with treatment... that's pretty unsettling and yet the honesty of the physician in admitting the uncertainty I think when done well can be meaningful to the patient and help develop the patient-physician relationship.
As always it seems sorry about the novel, hopefully something in here was semi-instructive or of help! Good luck everyone!
So with that in mind I think to myself, why is the admission committee interested in me sharing how I deal with uncertainty, or what i've gleaned from seeing others deal with it etc? Personally, I think this is an interesting prompt because it addresses something that becomes, IMO, unique in the professional school setting and that is a huge increase in uncertainty, that for some can really be quite jarring. So, seeing what you've learned about uncertainty and how you've dealt with it through various experiences offers the potential to gain insight into how you might deal with the inevitable uncertainty that you'll face in a career in medicine. Just a couple examples, the material we are learning has a certain level of uncertainty to it, there will be things you learn that we just don't know the why or the mechanism to yet, or recommendations that are changing, it sounds like a small point but it can be unsettling I think coming from the curriculum of university sciences sometimes. You'll face uncertainty on your future specialty, where you will live, what the market will be like, how reimbursement will change, how the field will change etc. You'll face uncertainty with grades that are sometimes subjective and out of your control in 3rd year, and as you go into the clinics you will pretty much live in a state of constant uncertainty haha. When people ask what 3rd year is like I think the best response i've heard is: "imagine you are starting a new job, every couple weeks at least, for a year." There will be uncertainty on what the expectations are for you, they are not always well defined as we often get used to with classroom learning, etc. Basically, you'll encounter lots and lots of uncertainty of one form or another, I guarantee it! So dealing with it becomes important.
As a fun personal example: In clinic the other day we were consulting on a complicated patient and the best form of therapy was really unclear. It was a major grey area in the literature and there were some pretty serious risk vs benefit considerations at play. In my literature search I came across a couple of recent studies suggesting that the risks might be lower in our patient than previously thought, and that extrapolating some other evidence the benefits could probably outweigh the risks. After discussing with the team they felt that this was probably true and sure enough in our presentation to the patient we discussed moving forward with therapy. Now in our rounding discussions i'll admit that part of me was thinking "awesome, i found something and contributed something interesting" (p.s. really not trying make it sound like what I did was particularly awesome or anything, it all came from discussion with the whole team, and much of it came from the attending experience, it was just a small part of the bigger discussion). Now, the key came when the attending was presenting to the patient, when I heard the sentence come out citing the study I discussed all of a sudden my perspective changed, being their with the pts family, and the pt, their being there in the hospital in such a vulnerable state, and suddenly realizing that that piece played a role in their life, and suddenly I felt my heart rate elevate and the adeline start to rush! I thought to myself, holy smokes did I review the evidence well enough?? Did I make sure and really glean the right conclusions from those papers?? I took comfort in knowing that the team was being led by experts and if they felt this was the way to proceed we were safe in doing so but wow, that all of a sudden made the uncertainty in treatment and uncertainty in the literature REAL. It wasn't just a fun puzzle to solve anymore, or fun literature to read anymore, and when lives are on the line that uncertainty becomes palpable. For me, it was both instructive and stressful, it moved me to be more careful in reading, more complete, and continue sharpening my data analysis skills as well as greater appreciating the importance of having a healthcare team. In the end though it makes the experience more fun I think. It makes my research more meaningful, being able to contribute answers, even small ones to help relieve the uncertainty that we as clinicians deal with everyday.
Anyway, it sounds more dramatic in writing then it really was, but thought maybe an example could be instructive. There is also huge uncertainty from the side of the patient, just imagine how they feel when a specialist tells them they are uncertain of what is going on with them, or uncertain of how to proceed with treatment... that's pretty unsettling and yet the honesty of the physician in admitting the uncertainty I think when done well can be meaningful to the patient and help develop the patient-physician relationship.
As always it seems sorry about the novel, hopefully something in here was semi-instructive or of help! Good luck everyone!
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Thank you, that gave me some insight on how to think and approach the essay!
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Same Here. Cannot find a link on their website either. I am going to email hem in a few to find out. Let me know if you get anything please!
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+2 here, tried to find it on their website but I had no luck
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I got the email too and it's been driving me crazy trying to find out how to access the secondaries or wondering how I missed the email for it! I just called the office, they said it's an automated email that gets sent out and they're working on it, I should hear from them soon.
Just got this email:
Hello Everyone,
We received word this morning that many applicants received emails reminding them to complete their secondary forms for the University of Utah School of Medicine. We are in the process of updating our applicant portal and unfortunately automated emails were incorrectly sent out to many of our applicants.
We intend to send out secondary invitations within the next few weeks, but we have not sent out any invitations at this time. We have resolved the problem with the automated emails.
We apologize for the confusion this has caused and we look forward to working with you in the future.
Hello Everyone,
We received word this morning that many applicants received emails reminding them to complete their secondary forms for the University of Utah School of Medicine. We are in the process of updating our applicant portal and unfortunately automated emails were incorrectly sent out to many of our applicants.
We intend to send out secondary invitations within the next few weeks, but we have not sent out any invitations at this time. We have resolved the problem with the automated emails.
We apologize for the confusion this has caused and we look forward to working with you in the future.
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Good luck to all! I'm very excited about applying here...Although quick question...Does anybody know the ratio of how many men apply vs get in compared to how many women apply vs get in? I saw on MSAR that the class ratio is 48 women/72 men, and I'm wondering if it's just that less women apply or if it's that less women are accepted. I'm female so I'm hoping it's not the latter. Thanks all!
That ratio varies between classes, I can't remembered if it is mine or the one above me but if I remember right it's more like 50/50. The variation is a result of the variation of each cycle. There is no real selection I have heard of for and certainly not against women.
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Oh good to know! I just thought the numbers looked a little off for some reason, but it's nice to know it varies between the cycles. Thank you!
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Utah is known for having a notoriously high number of male applicants. Depending on what source you read and in past SDN threads, I've seen the estimate around 75%. And most sources I've read have the class ratio about 50/50 or 60/40 (male/female). Though it was a little old, a state audit found that women were accepted at a rate two and a half times higher than men, though I'm sure that's gone down since then. Less women apply, but are extended almost the same amount if acceptances as men. If there's a school you're worried about gender acceptance rate/ratio this is not the one, as female applicants offer a rich diversity to offset the predominant male/LDS/white applicant pool at UUSOM.
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Hey everyone. What are you all planning to write about with this prompt? Just generally, you don't need to share specifics. Are you taking the physician, patient, or medicine viewpoint? I'm trying to decide which approach is the most effective.
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I am personally going the physician route because of an experience that I had when shadowing. I think it is less of which perspective in general, but rather which perspective you personally have experiences with that you could use to answer the prompt.
As mentioned the one that will be most effective is that which is most meaningful to you! When the admin are reading these it's very easy to pick up a genuine interesting essay and one that feels flat after reading hundreds of these. Find a story/stories that is most meaningful and show the admin why it was awesome and how it shapes you on your journey of becoming a physician. The reader should feel immersed in the story, again SHOW the message done just state it
good luck! Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
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Did anyone end up applying through the new early decision program? I will be curious to know how many seats that will take up.
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New applicant here! Good luck with applications everyone
I've decided to apply for the early decision program, but I don't know how many seats are reserved. I just received my secondary application this afternoon.
I've decided to apply for the early decision program, but I don't know how many seats are reserved. I just received my secondary application this afternoon.
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So are all the people getting secondaries now early decision applicants?
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I'm not.
So how is everyone handling the descriptions for your activities? I don't feel like I should copy and paste descriptions from the primary. Should I assume that they can read the primary description and maybe be a bit more expansive on what I learned and why I pursued those activities? What about service activities that covered 3 years and have 3 separate entries... do I copy/paste the same text into each description or write a unique one for each year?
I find it a little laborious to do all of this all over again! With MD, DO, and TX apps this is round three of entering all my experiences! Whew!
Also, thanks to @zhopv10 and @NorwegianRepresentative for helping with my previous question.
I find it a little laborious to do all of this all over again! With MD, DO, and TX apps this is round three of entering all my experiences! Whew!
Also, thanks to @zhopv10 and @NorwegianRepresentative for helping with my previous question.
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Did anyone else not receive the secondary? I wonder if they're doing it in batches. I'm an Idaho resident with competitive stats, but no secondary for me
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I haven't received one yet, either.
