2012-2013 Cornell University (Weill) Application Thread

[yellowfish]

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I love NYC. NYU, Columbia, Cornell, Sinai, Einstein are all dream schools. What do I need to get into schools like these? I look at the mdapps profiles of people on the school specific threads of these schools and everyone has insane stats. My gpa not stellar at 3.7 and im not URM... feels kinda bad lol.

There are people with very high stats applying to these schools, but that doesn't mean that only people with high stats are going to get in (or that these high stats people are going to get in, in the first place). These schools are fundamentally the same as pretty much any other medical school in the United States in what they look for, don't treat them any differently. They may be a little bit more competitive, but the same rules apply for making yourself a competitive applicant. Stats may help get you in the door, but at the end of the day the admissions committee is going to ask themselves if you're a student that they want attending their school - and that takes a holistic assessment of your activities, LORs, etc. to make a decision on. Don't let MDApps that you see here get you down - it's also important to know that at the end of the day you don't have to be a "stronger" applicant than everyone else to get in, you just have to be good enough. There's always going to be somebody "stronger" than you, or me.

Keep in mind that compared to the average medical school applicant, pretty much everyone on SDN is a gunner (either gunning for top schools, or to get into schools, there isn't much of the middle range). So you're going to see ridiculous applications because this site selects for that.

That being said, don't underestimate the importance of the MCAT - schools increase its importance from year to year as it's an easy way to cut out a ton of applicants. Doing very well on the MCAT and getting your app in on day 1 will get you into one of the NYC schools.

I disagree. Oversimplified. The MCAT isn't that important. The MCAT alone will never get you into any US medical school, it will only prevent you from being disqualified.

 

[Claudin]

Keep in mind that compared to the average medical school applicant, pretty much everyone on SDN is a gunner (either gunning for top schools, or to get into schools, there isn't much of the middle range). So you're going to see ridiculous applications because this site selects for that.

That being said, don't underestimate the importance of the MCAT - schools increase its importance from year to year as it's an easy way to cut out a ton of applicants. Doing very well on the MCAT and getting your app in on day 1 will get you into one of the NYC schools.

But I get the feeling that more and more SDNers are becoming the average med applicants... lol

 

[deleted127837]

I disagree. Oversimplified. The MCAT isn't that important. The MCAT alone will never get you into any US medical school, it will only prevent you from being disqualified.

If this is true, then statistically the disqualification cutoff at a lot of schools is quite high. A disproportionate number of students with high MCATs get into top schools. That's a fact. Whether it's for rankings, interschool competition, or because the schools legitimately think 42 MCAT holders are academically superior to 40 MCAT holders, I don't know.

But acting like the MCAT is a small piece of the puzzle is disingenuous to people who may not have taken the test yet and want to aim for those top schools.

Advising applicants to be "holistic" is great if they're in high school and have several years ahead of them to prepare dedicated longitudinal activities. The MCAT is one thing people can invest a good amount of time on and do very well with that will have very clear and measurable ramifications on how their season will go - assuming they've adequately checked the other boxes.

That being said, you're right. You only have to be good enough. MDApps almost seems to do more harm than good for a lot of people these days. It's not tremendously inspirational for a student to see a 43/4.0 get into all their dream schools on October 15th 😛

But I get the feeling that more and more SDNers are becoming the average med applicants... lol

They aren't, but the longer you spend on SDN, the more it'll feel that way.



Edit: Have gotten away from the purpose of this thread. Cornell is awesome. I <3 Cornell. 🙂

 

[yellowfish]

If this is true, then statistically the disqualification cutoff at a lot of schools is quite high. A disproportionate number of students with high MCATs get into top schools. That's a fact. Whether it's for rankings, interschool competition, or because the schools legitimately think 42 MCAT holders are academically superior to 40 MCAT holders, I don't know.

It's because a disproportionate number of those people also have very strong applications all around.

Your log cabin comment made me laugh, by the way 😛

 

[deleted127837]

It's because a disproportionate number of those people also have very strong applications all around.

Your log cabin comment made me laugh, by the way 😛

Haha, I do my best 😀👍

 

[PreMedOrDead]

It's because a disproportionate number of those people also have very strong applications all around.

Your log cabin comment made me laugh, by the way 😛

As a person who knows a 4.0/40+ with IIs at all 14 of his schools yet pretty mediocre ECs and a 36/3.9 with only 2 IIs but great ECs, both completed the same week at a lot of the same schools, I think you underestimate the weight of the MCAT.

 

[EHizzle]

It's because a disproportionate number of those people also have very strong applications all around.

Your log cabin comment made me laugh, by the way 😛

KDizz my numbers are not stellar and I still haven't gotten a Cornell interview. Can you make me feel better about myself?

 

[EHizzle]

as a person who knows a 4.0/40+ with iis at all 14 of his schools yet pretty mediocre ecs and a 36/3.9 with only 2 iis but great ecs, both completed the same week at a lot of the same schools, i think you underestimate the weight of the mcat.

hey that sounds exactly like me

 

[alisvolatpropri]

As a person who knows a 4.0/40+ with IIs at all 14 of his schools yet pretty mediocre ECs and a 36/3.9 with only 2 IIs but great ECs, both completed the same week at a lot of the same schools, I think you underestimate the weight of the MCAT.

You are leaving out the heavy weighting of LORs. Scores + ECs are one half, LORs provides the evidence to the rest of the application that get you the invite. Strong LORs greatly impact the success of your cycle, at least for the schools that claim to look at applications in a 'holisitic' manner.

 

[Ichiban88]

I think what matters overall is if the applicant is a good fit to the school.

 

[yellowfish]

As a person who knows a 4.0/40+ with IIs at all 14 of his schools yet pretty mediocre ECs and a 36/3.9 with only 2 IIs but great ECs, both completed the same week at a lot of the same schools, I think you underestimate the weight of the MCAT.

I'm highly suspect of these anecdotal "I know someone who..."; Unless you've seen their actual AMCAS application with all LORs, on paper, and read through it, I am very skeptical of how well you can judge an applicant from social interaction, casual conversation and observation. Not to mention, n=2.

KDizz my numbers are not stellar and I still haven't gotten a Cornell interview. Can you make me feel better about myself?

At the end of the day the average accepted student to Cornell has an MCAT of 34.6 (according to their admissions website). This means that for every 40+ applicant accepted, there's several people accepted with 32's. It can happen, it does happen, and it happens often. Your interview will likely come and you will have a real shot, even if it is later in the cycle. How was that?

I think what matters overall is if the applicant is a good fit to the school.

I again disagree. Fit is overrated. There are only a handful of schools in the US that really have a very tight definition of "fit". A strong applicant somewhere is almost always a strong applicant somewhere else. I challenge you to describe why a socially adept, empathetic, humble applicant would "fit" one place but not at another (and assume this applicant has all the volunteering, research, leadership etc. that is expected of most applicants to top tier schools such as Cornell). "Fit" is also antithetical to the idea of diversity - it's just another way to talk about the desire for a holistic applicant.

 

[deleted127837]

I again disagree. Fit is overrated. There are only a handful of schools in the US that really have a very tight definition of "fit". A strong applicant somewhere is almost always a strong applicant somewhere else. I challenge you to describe why a socially adept, empathetic, humble applicant would "fit" one place but not at another (and assume this applicant has all the volunteering, research, leadership etc. that is expected of most applicants to top tier schools such as Cornell). "Fit" is also antithetical to the idea of diversity - it's just another way to talk about the desire for a holistic applicant.

"Fit" is a legally acceptable term for targeting specific applicant traits instead of dealing with an application as a whole. At a particular school, there might be 5 piano players in their 50 person class, and so another piano player doesn't really "fit." Very very few people are truly unique in the whole cycle, and if someone else gets in before you, you may not "fit" because they don't want several people of the exact same mold.

The problem is that 20 people who are world famous pianists will find themselves getting "fit" against (I'm not going to say discriminated because it's not quite the same). 20 people with 40+ MCATs, however, won't. They all boost the ranking equally, whereas 20 pianists don't boost the school's stats equally. In that sense, numbers trump extracurriculars, because the system and society judges the school based on numbers.

PS: Cornell, I <3 you.

 

[justhanging]

"Fit" is a legally acceptable term for targeting specific applicant traits instead of dealing with an application as a whole. At a particular school, there might be 5 piano players in their 50 person class, and so another piano player doesn't really "fit." Very very few people are truly unique in the whole cycle, and if someone else gets in before you, you may not "fit" because they don't want several people of the exact same mold.

The problem is that 20 people who are world famous pianists will find themselves getting "fit" against (I'm not going to say discriminated because it's not quite the same). 20 people with 40+ MCATs, however, won't. They all boost the ranking equally, whereas 20 pianists don't boost the school's stats equally. In that sense, numbers trump extracurriculars, because the system and society judges the school based on numbers.

PS: Cornell, I <3 you.

Isn't the whole piano thing more about diversity then fit? Fit is a lot more vague and kinda generic if you ask me. I'm the perfect fit for all the programs that I interviewed at, atleast that's what I keep in my mind and try to convey to the interviewer.

 

[PreMedOrDead]

I'm highly suspect of these anecdotal "I know someone who..."; Unless you've seen their actual AMCAS application with all LORs, on paper, and read through it, I am very skeptical of how well you can judge an applicant from social interaction, casual conversation and observation. Not to mention, n=2.

I'm aware of the n=2 situation. I was including LOR and other such things on the ECs. The lower scoring applicant has a far better relationship with the faculty and has a more passionate story to tell, and did so well. And believe it or not, we review each other's applications (PDF printout of our applications) before we submit, so I do know them pretty thoroughly. However, due to confidentiality reasons, no I don't know their actual LORs, but I know who they're from. LORs shouldn't really even have that much weight in the grand scheme of things; I can have someone who doesn't know jack **** about me write an eloquent letter for my application and no one is the wiser. Kind of sad. I've had physicians I've shadowed for a couple hours offer me full-fledged glowing LORs just because they're so used to it being prompted.

I am aware it's anecdotal, but that's not the point. Look at the spreadsheets, interpret the data. People scoring higher will absolutely do much better, and they have much more leeway on their faults in their application. Look at MDApps of applicants with high stats but 'meh' ECs, they will still have exceptionally successful cycles. On my own n = 1, I have a particular gap in clinical history of my application that I am aware of, yet it has not ever been brought up, yet I have been extremely successful this cycle, and I attribute it to my numbers (~4.0, 38+), not the fact I have stellar ECs. Everyone on SDN thinks they have stellar ECs, and everyone at interviews think they do. Can I elaborate and make mine sound exceptional? Of course I can, that's how you kill interviews. But honestly, the people interviewing with me and interviewing me have no idea how in-depth my experiences actually were, just what my LORs say and how I articulate my actions.

It's an uncorrectable flaw in the system. I choose to be completely transparent and honest in my application, but does that mean everyone is? I would suspect not, especially fringe applicants. It's a beautiful mess, and I think it's easier to interpret numerical GPA/MCAT as a standard of measure rather than comparing completely unrelatable things like ECs.

Edit: Back on track... As for Cornell, how far along through the cycle are they in terms of interview (offers and # given out of total)?

 

[alisvolatpropri]

I'm aware of the n=2 situation. I was including LOR and other such things on the ECs. The lower scoring applicant has a far better relationship with the faculty and has a more passionate story to tell, and did so well. And believe it or not, we review each other's applications (PDF printout of our applications) before we submit, so I do know them pretty thoroughly. However, due to confidentiality reasons, no I don't know their actual LORs, but I know who they're from. LORs shouldn't really even have that much weight in the grand scheme of things; I can have someone who doesn't know jack **** about me write an eloquent letter for my application and no one is the wiser. Kind of sad. I've had physicians I've shadowed for a couple hours offer me full-fledged glowing LORs just because they're so used to it being prompted.

I am aware it's anecdotal, but that's not the point. Look at the spreadsheets, interpret the data. People scoring higher will absolutely do much better, and they have much more leeway on their faults in their application. Look at MDApps of applicants with high stats but 'meh' ECs, they will still have exceptionally successful cycles. On my own n = 1, I have a particular gap in clinical history of my application that I am aware of, yet it has not ever been brought up, yet I have been extremely successful this cycle, and I attribute it to my numbers (~4.0, 38+), not the fact I have stellar ECs. Everyone on SDN thinks they have stellar ECs, and everyone at interviews think they do. Can I elaborate and make mine sound exceptional? Of course I can, that's how you kill interviews. But honestly, the people interviewing with me and interviewing me have no idea how in-depth my experiences actually were, just what my LORs say and how I articulate my actions.

It's an uncorrectable flaw in the system. I choose to be completely transparent and honest in my application, but does that mean everyone is? I would suspect not, especially fringe applicants. It's a beautiful mess, and I think it's easier to interpret numerical GPA/MCAT as a standard of measure rather than comparing completely unrelatable things like ECs.

Edit: Back on track... As for Cornell, how far along through the cycle are they in terms of interview (offers and # given out of total)?

You can believe what you want, but my sources are current/past medical students on the admission committees of top and mid tier medical schools. You might think your rec letters are amazing, but having been a writer for several of my undergrad's rec letters and being on a grad admission committee myself, there are drastic differences between, "This student is going to be an excellent physician," and "This is one of the top 3 students that I have had in my 40 years in the clinic." LORs can be game-changing, so it is naive to dismiss their significance in an application.

 

[PreMedOrDead]

You can believe what you want, but my sources are current/past medical students on the admission committees of top and mid tier medical schools. You might think your rec letters are amazing, but having been a writer for several of my undergrad's rec letters and being on a grad admission committee myself, there are drastic differences between, "This student is going to be an excellent physician," and "This is one of the top 3 students that I have had in my 40 years in the clinic." LORs can be game-changing, so it is naive to dismiss their significance in an application.

I am aware of this, and understand. My respectful dissent is questioning what's stopping someone from saying that "This is one of the top 3 students that I have had in my 40 years in the clinic." for a promising applicant even though it may not be a genuine review? There's the assumption that the letter writer is being sincere in their evaluation, which may not always be the case, especially if there is a personal connection present (which I would assume is the case in every letter if an applicant picked a reasonable writer). I personally would not write a letter for someone unless I was willing to make them sound like they're exceptional. And what about letters that the students write themselves? If you've looked at any of the threads in pre-allo, you will realize that there's a good number of LORs that aren't even written by the person signing off on them. How genuine do you think those are? They can be magnificent letters, but they are completely ingenuous. I can make someone sound fantastic on paper, but that doesn't make it a reality. In the end, this person will look much better with their application than someone who had a person write more critically and realistically about their abilities, which aren't as drastic as the one that was embellished.

Edit: I cannot attest as an individual to the medical admissions process, but I've heard this 'complaint' about LORs and their validity for some time now. This doesn't stop at medical admissions, but delves into all sorts of LOR-based reviews. It's a dark look of pessimism, but it's reality. My hope is that it isn't common and I have a personal commandment which precludes such unethical behavior, but considering how willing students are to write their own letters, I think it would be rash to assume that it doesn't happen often, even in a profession that demands transparency and compassion.

 

[Sophocles]

I think one thing that has helped me is to have a great mentor that is well known I the adcom world, and she has written on my behalf. I believe thu has helped me immensely but I understand if it was just some prof at some school how would adcoms know if the person was being sincere or not?

 

[alisvolatpropri]

I agree that unethical behaviours for LORs do happen, but the prevalence isn't as wide as you imagine. This is why admission committees like committee letters, the committee letter writer has had experience with previous students and can truly comment on an individual's performance in comparison to others throughout their years. Also, the letter that you write for yourself is never as strong as someone who has years of experience writing letters to get students into medical school, it helps to get a letter writer who has that awesome track record. I've seen a committee call a PI with 4 applicant's from their lab to ask "who is the best? pick one" and that was the one that was accepted to the program. Dishonest people can and will get by and accepted to medical school... but it won't last for long, they'll just get owned in 3rd year, have a negative reputation/fake relationships with their colleagues, and have a tough time getting into the residency program of their choice. Karma catches up.

Live by your defined moral guidelines, and care less about what other people are doing, the only person you should compete with is yourself...

 

[PreMedOrDead]

I've seen a committee call a PI with 4 applicant's from their lab to ask "who is the best? pick one" and that was the one that was accepted to the program.

I'm totally fine with a committee calling a rec writer to verify things, but to pick a favorite for admissions? That's horrible. How is it possible that all four were on such equal standing with not only each other but the entire applicant pool to the point that this was required? I'm far from being on an AdCom, but I wouldn't condone that.

But anyways, I'm just saying there are flaws inherent with rec letters. Mine have done me well, so I don't care, but it's a pretty 'sketch' system. I don't necessarily believe in karma, but I understand your point and will leave it at that.

 

[justhanging]

I'm totally fine with a committee calling a rec writer to verify things, but to pick a favorite for admissions? That's horrible. How is it possible that all four were on such equal standing with not only each other but the entire applicant pool to the point that this was required? I'm far from being on an AdCom, but I wouldn't condone that.

But anyways, I'm just saying there are flaws inherent with rec letters. Mine have done me well, so I don't care, but it's a pretty 'sketch' system. I don't necessarily believe in karma, but I understand your point and will leave it at that.

Why are the new Futurama episodes so subpar compared to the older ones?

 

[PreMedOrDead]

Why are the new Futurama episodes so subpar compared to the older ones?

Remember that movie when you were 12 years old that you absolutely loved? Then you watched it again and asked yourself, "How the $%*& did I enjoy that?"

Yeah.

But more seriously, things tend to wear out. That's why *most* shows don't extend beyond a couple seasons. Let's be honest here, Simpsons died out long ago.

 

[justhanging]

Remember that movie when you were 12 years old that you absolutely loved? Then you watched it again and asked yourself, "How the $%*& did I enjoy that?"

Yeah.

But more seriously, things tend to wear out. That's why *most* shows don't extend beyond a couple seasons. Let's be honest here, Simpsons died out long ago.

Very true. When I was on oxycodone following my surgery, I thought jimmy falon at late night was haliarious, atleast until I was off the drugs.

 

[Sophocles]

I was just at in an interview where the faculty member told me that when they have two interviewers with conflicting opinions about an applicant they would call the LOR writers for further deliberation.

I know it's anecdotal but I thought I'd say it anyways.

 

[Tots]

But anyways, I'm just saying there are flaws inherent with rec letters. Mine have done me well, so I don't care, but it's a pretty 'sketch' system. I don't necessarily believe in karma, but I understand your point and will leave it at that.

I would agree that there is a lot of luck involved in LORs. You could have a great relationship with someone and they could write an absolutely horrible letter(and not on purpose, just because they might have no idea what they are doing). A decent portion of the LOR process is out of the hands of the applicant.

 

[deleted127837]

TL;DR: Too many people apply to medical school, and generations of hype have jacked up the competitiveness of candidates. Some adcoms anecdotally have done some pretty questionable things to weed out or encourage candidates. The process sucks for everyone - LORs suck because we can't control them, MCATs suck because they're overrated, GPAs suck because they suck the fun out of college, extracurriculars suck because we lose the ability to explore and experiment, growing as people, instead just checking the boxes and potentially becoming shallow individuals, black holes suck because theoretical physics. Candidates getting accepted don't give a damn about changing things, because they were accepted, and the opinions of those who failed are ignored. Thus the wheel keeps turning.


In other news: I hear when a patient has an explosive bowel movement at Cornell, it doesn't actually stink. I <3 you Cornell! Let's get back on topic, people. 👍

 

[Sophocles]

TL;DR: Too many people apply to medical school, and generations of hype have jacked up the competitiveness of candidates. Some adcoms anecdotally have done some questionable things to weed out candidates. Candidates getting accepted don't give a damn about changing things, because they were accepted, and the opinions of those who failed are ignored. Thus the wheel keeps turning.


In other news: I hear when a patient has an explosive bowel movement at Cornell, it doesn't actually stink. I <3 you Cornell! Let's get back on topic, people. 👍

Umm.. I don't know where you get your information but that's completely wrong!! I heard it smells like roses on a freshly rained day... oo, how great it must be!

 

[6svette]

can any current students talk a bit about what they like/dislike about Cornell?

Preferably touch upon the notions of competitiveness within the class, and constant quizzing.

 

[Swartzlehman]

X

 

[zebrafisher]

So........Anyone get an II for here recently?

 

[Swartzlehman]

X

 

[mudixxx27]

Rejected today.

38S, 14, 10, 14

3.54cGPA 3.45sGPA, Strong Upward trend

Average ECs, No research

Out of state, NON-URM

 

[hookgrip]

Rejected today.

38S, 14, 10, 14

3.54cGPA 3.45sGPA, Strong Upward trend

Average ECs, No research

Out of state, NON-URM

Via email? Or was it via status update on your application page?

When was your secondary complete, by the way?

 

[mudixxx27]

Via email? Or was it via status update on your application page?

When was your secondary complete, by the way?

Email.
Secondary Complete 9/26.

Primary complete and verified 7/25.

I am upset. 👎

 

[Warick22]

Hey, I was complete in mid July and still haven't heard anything from them. Does this mean I am on hold because there have been alot of rejections sent out between now and then

 

[wangers5270]

.

 

[degi]

Rejected today as well. Stats lower than avg, but I thought I would give it a try anyways...psh

 

[chasingsummers]

when were you complete?

 

[degi]

when were you complete?

Mid October

 

[BurghStudent]

Rejected as well. LizzyM score of ~75. Complete mid September.

 

[spf15]

I guess order of completion doesn't.. matter so much?

 

[Fivo]

Does anyone know how strict Cornell is about having your prereqs done by January? I feel like I wasted my money 🙁

 

[2017Cycle]

I guess order of completion doesn't.. matter so much?

It looks like they review your file when you submit, either defer a decision or send out an interview pretty quickly. Then it looks like they go through the deferred list, reject some, send a few ii, and re-defer many people. Basically, if you don't have a rejection you are still in the game.

 

[2017Cycle]

Rejected as well. LizzyM score of ~75. Complete mid September.

Sorry to hear that! But with a score that high I am sure you will have offers elsewhere.

 

[Person500]

Interview Invite Today!!

 

[chasingsummers]

congrats! when were you complete?

 

[langnese]

congrats! When were you complete?

+1

 

[Fivo]

congrats! when were you complete?

+1

From his post history, he was complete at most his other schools around 9/26-27. So I'm assuming he was complete here around the same time as well.

 

[refrigerator]

Rejection today. 🙁 good luck to the rest of you!!

 

[zebrafisher]

Rejection today. 🙁 good luck to the rest of you!!

I'm sorry. Mind sharing completion date and/or stats?

 

[alamofire]

.