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Oof I interviewed 11/2 and still haven’t received an email... should I be worried?
Edit: for AZ campus
Edit: for AZ campus
I interviewed 11/13 and also have not yet been scoredOof I interviewed 11/2 and still haven’t received an email... should I be worried?
Edit: for AZ campus
No. The timing of the scored email doesn't have anything to do with whether they view your application favorably or not. There are a lot of things like this with Mayo — such as an additional email that says you are "highly ranked", whether or not interviews respond to thank you emails, whether or not deans/directors respond to LOI letters. All of it seems like it might have weight but there are accepted students across the spectrum.Oof I interviewed 11/2 and still haven’t received an email... should I be worried?
Edit: for AZ campus
That’s reassuring 🙂 thank you!No. The timing of the scored email doesn't have anything to do with whether they view your application favorably or not. There are a lot of things like this with Mayo — such as an additional email that says you are "highly ranked", whether or not interviews respond to thank you emails, whether or not deans/directors respond to LOI letters. All of it seems like it might have weight but there are accepted students across the spectrum.
You could be totally right here, but I'm just wondering why you say "no less than 4 weeks after your interview." It's better to wait a month? Thanks!send a Letter of Interest OR Intent no less than 4 weeks after your interview. The adcoms explicitly stated that they like to receive these letters because they prefer handing out acceptances to students that really want to be there.
thanks for this write-up! i also thought people were being a little generous with calling the interview super conversational - yes the interviewers were nice, but after most of my answers they just said "ok/good" and moved on, which is not a conversation lol. (or does this just mean i tanked my interviews 😉) also, i interviewed with 2 adcoms, so looks like not everyone gets a student interviewer! lastly, i'm also wondering why you said loi should come no less than 4 weeks after interview - did you mean no more than? def planning on sending one but wasn't gonna wait that long...You get two 30 minute interviews, one with a MS4 and one with a practicing or retired physician (I interviewed with a retired vascular surgeon). Mayo and many people on the forum say that the interviews are conversational and laid back. I sort of agree, and only "sort of" because I felt like they worked in a fair number of typical behavioral/situational questions.
thanks for this write-up! i also thought people were being a little generous with calling the interview super conversational - yes the interviewers were nice, but after most of my answers they just said "ok/good" and moved on, which is not a conversation lol. (or does this just mean i tanked my interviews 😉) also, i interviewed with 2 adcoms, so looks like not everyone gets a student interviewer! lastly, i'm also wondering why you said loi should come no less than 4 weeks after interview - did you mean no more than? def planning on sending one but wasn't gonna wait that long...
@applicant1010 : If you send the letter too early, it may come across as a lack of respect for the decision making timeline, especially if schools have explicitly declared that they will take a certain amount of time to process your application before making a decision (though this isn't *exactly* the case with Mayo). It may also come across as needy or brash, since sending an LOI is a sign of exceptionally heightened interest in one (for letter of intent) or a few (for letter of interest) particular schools, and so you don't want to be sending such a letter within a week after your interview. That's like deciding to marry someone after dating them for a month. (This is my personal opinion.)You could be totally right here, but I'm just wondering why you say "no less than 4 weeks after your interview." It's better to wait a month? Thanks!
@applicant1010 : If you send the letter too early, it may come across as a lack of respect for the decision making timeline, especially if schools have explicitly declared that they will take a certain amount of time to process your application before making a decision (though this isn't *exactly* the case with Mayo). It may also come across as needy or brash, since sending an LOI is a sign of exceptionally heightened interest in one (for letter of intent) or a few (for letter of interest) particular schools, and so you don't want to be sending such a letter within a week after your interview. That's like deciding to marry someone after dating them for a month. (This is my personal opinion.)
Generally speaking, I would say that LOIs should be used conservatively: only if you're really interested in a school, if you've given the school enough time post-interview to look you over (1-2 months generally), if you haven't heard back from them yet, and especially if you may have any updates to your life that may affect your application. (If you have any life updates of significance such as a new publication or award, you ought to update your application through AMCAS and/or LOIs where possible.) For individual schools, it helps to look up what other applicants said about LOIs for that school. For example, I think Mayo is unique in explicitly encouraging LOIs even if no significant life updates happened. Conversely, many schools get annoyed if you send an LOI anytime before February, or if you had nothing more to update them on. So be sure that school's adcom is cool with your LOI, or I'm guessing it may work in your disfavor.
While this wasn't asked for, I also thought it helpful to clarify between LOInterest and LOIntent, which are slightly different but often confused because the same acronym "LOI" is often used to refer to both.
LOIntent
LOIntents are meant to only be sent to one school, with the explicit declaration that you WILL attend the school if offered a place. Now, the letter is by no means legally binding, and there's no way for a school to know how many LOIntents you sent. But it's generally considered unethical to send more than one LOIntent.
LOInterest
You can always send a LOInterest instead, which expresses your heightened interest in a school without making an exclusive verbal commitment to that school, so you can send multiple of them.
Mayo actually encourages LOIntents or LOInterests (contrary to most top-tier schools I know); the adcom wants to know if you're particularly interested in them. They also explicitly stated that they don't require you to make a binding statement. In other words, they don't care what kind of LOI you send as long as you send one if you really like them. So, it seems to me that a LOInterest is sufficient for Mayo, though of course if Mayo truly and surely is your top choice far beyond any other schools you've interviewed at, no harm sending a LOIntent. (This is my assessment and I will be sending my LOIntent in a month.)
The million dollar question is, does it really make a difference in the outcome? I'd like to believe so, even if some of that belief is ignorant bliss. 🙂
Hope this helps!
thanks for this write-up! i also thought people were being a little generous with calling the interview super conversational - yes the interviewers were nice, but after most of my answers they just said "ok/good" and moved on, which is not a conversation lol. (or does this just mean i tanked my interviews 😉)
Oh wow! I wonder what affects that decision, and I wonder how that affects the presentation of candidates to the entire committee during the decision making process. From my understanding, the medical student has just as much of an input since they are one of the two people who interviewed you. But I'm not sure. I feel like the social dynamics would necessitate that the doc's opinion outweighs the student's...also, i interviewed with 2 adcoms, so looks like not everyone gets a student interviewer!
I explained why I recommend 4 weeks or more in my reply to applicant1010 above, if you'd like to have a read of that. I suppose I might be wrong, though!lastly, i'm also wondering why you said loi should come no less than 4 weeks after interview - did you mean no more than? def planning on sending one but wasn't gonna wait that long...
Second what you said. Interestingly, the medical student that interviewed me was from the MN campus (she was an MS4, and the AZ campus doesn't have MS4s yet I believe). So I have a feeling they get some of the MN folks to help with interviewing AZ students...?I agree on the "conversational part". Most of my interview had more behavioral questions and we sometimes conversed about my replies, but it wasn't "super conversational" for me either. I interviewed for the MN campus but I assume the interview style is largely the same as AZ
I spoke with a MCASOM alumnus and asked them about their recommendations on the LOI/LOInterest. They said that letters of intent are definitely considered more heavily by Mayo than a letter of interest, but of course not to send a letter of intent if you don't truly mean it. Their idea was that letters of interest are favorably considered but unlikely to significantly shift the committee's decision compared to letters of intent. They were involved with the Mayo admissions committee before so I think it's fair to give their words some weight.
@rep_the_don : wow, this is fantastic insider information. Thank you so much for sharing this! I'll take that into consideration and I'm sure that this will help everyone. Again, this affirms that LOIntents should not be taken lightly and really should only be sent to a single school that you really, really, really want to go to.
Does it, though? If a school is openly soliciting them, and you want the A, and it isn't binding, why not take it lightly in order to play the game and do everything possible to score the A?@rep_the_don : wow, this is fantastic insider information. Thank you so much for sharing this! I'll take that into consideration and I'm sure that this will help everyone. Again, this affirms that LOIntents should not be taken lightly and really should only be sent to a single school that you really, really, really want to go to.
Does it, though? If a school is openly soliciting them, and you want the A, and it isn't binding, why not take it lightly in order to play the game and do everything possible to score the A?
I haven't applied yet, but I will next cycle, so I'm trying to gather as much info as possible. I will have no idea where I "really, really, really want to go to" until I know what my options are, but I'm reasonably sure I'm going to "really, really, really want" an A at every school where I pay a secondary fee, put in the effort to respond to the prompts, and then take the time (and spend the money) to interview, if invited.
Is it really unethical to give the school what it wants, particularly when everyone knows it's not binding? On the other hand, is it unethical to expect it as a precondition to receiving an A???? TBH, it seems crazy for a prestigious esteemed institution to expect such a non-binding act of subjugation in order to receive a coveted A, and I'd sleep perfectly well playing their game and later changing my mind if it were in my interest to do so.
For the record, Mayo's yield of around 55% is in line with other T10 schools, so this tactic is not especially effective in weeding out the less committed. 😎
If I'm not mistaken schools that offer you acceptances can see what other schools you hold acceptances at through the AMCAS Choose your school tool. I can't imagine they'd look upon it favorably if you send a letter of intent, and they see you matriculate to another school, nor do I think they'd hesitate to have a word with the admissions department of the school you choose over them. Also from listening to the All Access Admissions podcast, it seems that adcoms from schools talk to each other quite a bit especially regarding WL movement and specific students, so I don't think this is necessarily a great idea.
You are 1,000,000% mistaken! 😎If I'm not mistaken schools that offer you acceptances can see what other schools you hold acceptances at through the AMCAS Choose your school tool. I can't imagine they'd look upon it favorably if you send a letter of intent, and they see you matriculate to another school, nor do I think they'd hesitate to have a word with the admissions department of the school you choose over them. Also from listening to the All Access Admissions podcast, it seems that adcoms from schools talk to each other quite a bit especially regarding WL movement and specific students, so I don't think this is necessarily a great idea.
Your points are spot on. Believe it or not, I consider myself to be fairly ethical, and I would never just send LOIs all over the place in order to goose my chances. I also believe, based on feedback from adcoms on SDN, that they are widely viewed by adcoms to be empty, non-binding promises from desperate candidates that receiving little to no weight, so I don't expect to be sending them at all.Thanks for the input, @KnightDoc and @premed1423 . I suppose LOIntents are a matter of both pragmatism and principle.
Practically speaking, we can agree on what LOIntents may do for your chances at an A. We may also want to consider @premed1423 's message as a word of caution. We can even look at the statistic @KnightDoc cited about how this "LOI" system doesn't seem to improve yield, and consider if students out there are also "playing the game" and sending LOIntents wherever they fancy.
But the principle behind it is a different story for different people. We can agree on what LOIntents *ought* to be in principle, and how they are supposed to be used in principle. But what will you do to get the A? What type of "game" are you prepared to play to get the A? How may you use the LOIntent beyond its supposed function? (Feels like I'm getting into consequentialism here.) That's a question only you can answer for yourself since your voice is the only one that will interrogate you every night. Personally, I think "misusing" LOIntents will bring me great uneasiness, so I will send one and one only. Maybe I'm overly idealistic and not one to "play the game", but it helps me sleep well at night. 🙂
That's beautiful, and I hadn't seen it before, but it does perfectly capture what I've been trying to say. I got my information straight from the AAMC CYMS web pages.@KnightDoc , thanks for this! I looked up more information and found this page which I thought was helpful as someone who doesn't really know how the CYMS tool works:
Every Question You Have About the New 2019 Medical School Traffic Rules
Imagine a private gathering of medical school admissions officers, perhaps in an ivory tower somewhere. This conclave of academic gatekeepers, mostly from prestigious schools, is meeting behind-the-scenes to discuss candidates and divvy them up amongst their programs.www.savvypremed.com
What do y'all think of this link? Interestingly, it also discusses LOIntents.
I don't believe it is accurate to say that nobody is accepted to Mayo without a LOI. My understanding is a LOI simply adds bonus points to your committee score but a sufficiently strong application is enough to be highly ranked.Your points are spot on. Believe it or not, I consider myself to be fairly ethical, and I would never just send LOIs all over the place in order to goose my chances. I also believe, based on feedback from adcoms on SDN, that they are widely viewed by adcoms to be empty, non-binding promises from desperate candidates that receiving little to no weight, so I don't expect to be sending them at all.
On the other hand, I think it's obnoxious for a school like Mayo to demand fealty before granting the coveted A. If I want the A, I'll do as I'm told. If not, I won't bother applying.
Your point is well taken about what "ought to be in principle." The question is, ought LOIs be a precondition to admission? I don't think so. In fact, I think it's unethical for a school to go outside the traffic rules ("guidelines") and act anti-competitively by asking me to renounce all others in order to be eligible to receive an A.
I'll go further and suggest that if those LOIs were binding, what Mayo seeks to do would be precisely the sort of illegal activity AMCAS sought to avoid by getting rid of the MAR, and Mayo would be sued over its insistence that you withdraw other applications before being able to receive other decisions and scholarship offers in order to receive an A.
Your points are spot on. Believe it or not, I consider myself to be fairly ethical, and I would never just send LOIs all over the place in order to goose my chances. I also believe, based on feedback from adcoms on SDN, that they are widely viewed by adcoms to be empty, non-binding promises from desperate candidates that receiving little to no weight, so I don't expect to be sending them at all.
On the other hand, I think it's obnoxious for a school like Mayo to demand fealty before granting the coveted A. If I want the A, I'll do as I'm told. If not, I won't bother applying.
Your point is well taken about what "ought to be in principle." The question is, ought LOIs be a precondition to admission? I don't think so. In fact, I think it's unethical for a school to go outside the traffic rules ("guidelines") and act anti-competitively by asking me to renounce all others in order to be eligible to receive an A.
I'll go further and suggest that if those LOIs were binding, what Mayo seeks to do would be precisely the sort of illegal activity AMCAS sought to avoid by getting rid of the MAR, and Mayo would be sued over its insistence that you withdraw other applications before being able to receive other decisions and scholarship offers in order to receive an A.
I guess, but we have no way to know this one way or the other. Given how few As they give out, and how shameless they are in actively soliciting these LOIs, I'd be pretty surprised if the vast majority of accepted students didn't send one, whether or not it is "required."I don't believe it is accurate to say that nobody is accepted to Mayo without a LOI. My understanding is a LOI simply adds bonus points to your committee score but a sufficiently strong application is enough to be highly ranked.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think it's actually anti-competitive because it ISN'T binding. The system is fine. Mayo wants us to grovel -- that's fine. If I want to go to Mayo, I'll grovel.Great points. I agree that LOIntents should never be a precondition to admission, or they would be simply another item to check off the list like secondaries. I see why someone would send one in an exceptional case, but it's another thing for schools to ask for them in a setting that implies that LOIntents/Interests would be more of the norm than the exception. The decision by an applicant to attend an interview should convey sufficient "intent". Thankfully, these LOIs are not binding in any way. Perhaps the schools just want some additional assurance that you will go there if they give you an offer (though your statistics prove that this "additional assurance" doesn't mean anything).
Thanks for explaining your perspective. I respect your decision to avoid sending LOIntents. Hopefully the admissions system can be improved in a way to reduce this type of anticompetitive hedging behavior.
I'll just consider it part of the game and won't lose any sleep or feel like I sold my soul by doing so. It's clear I'm not in the minority since, as I pointed out above, Mayo is one of the very few top schools to do this, and it's yield is below more desirable schools like Harvard and Penn, and right in line with most of the other T10. I'm sure most people send the LOIs, and around half of them actually enroll, just like at peer schools where LOIs are not expected, or even necessarily considered.
@applicant1010 : If you send the letter too early, it may come across as a lack of respect for the decision making timeline, especially if schools have explicitly declared that they will take a certain amount of time to process your application before making a decision (though this isn't *exactly* the case with Mayo). It may also come across as needy or brash, since sending an LOI is a sign of exceptionally heightened interest in one (for letter of intent) or a few (for letter of interest) particular schools, and so you don't want to be sending such a letter within a week after your interview. That's like deciding to marry someone after dating them for a month. (This is my personal opinion.)
Generally speaking, I would say that LOIs should be used conservatively: only if you're really interested in a school, if you've given the school enough time post-interview to look you over (1-2 months generally), if you haven't heard back from them yet, and especially if you may have any updates to your life that may affect your application. (If you have any life updates of significance such as a new publication or award, you ought to update your application through AMCAS and/or LOIs where possible.) For individual schools, it helps to look up what other applicants said about LOIs for that school. For example, I think Mayo is unique in explicitly encouraging LOIs even if no significant life updates happened. Conversely, many schools get annoyed if you send an LOI anytime before February, or if you had nothing more to update them on. So be sure that school's adcom is cool with your LOI, or I'm guessing it may work in your disfavor.
You could be totally right here, but I'm just wondering why you say "no less than 4 weeks after your interview." It's better to wait a month? Thanks!
Yup! I also don't like lying. Given the tiny odds of anyone actually getting into Mayo, and knowing that this is one of the hoops that have to be jumped through, maybe it's just not worth it and I won't apply at all. If it means they hold a grudge and don't give me a residency in the future, so be it. I'm pretty sure if I'm in a position to turn down an A from Mayo, I'll be okay whether or not I get a Mayo residency.I mean, maybe don’t risk lying to schools that might also house the residency programs you’ll be applying to in the future. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Also personally, I would definitely feel bad lying in general lol
Although it’s clear Mayo appreciates ongoing communication (updates, LOIs), I think your fear that not sending one greatly impacts the chance of A is SDN bias. Of the students I have connected with (n=7), not one of them sent a letter of intent. About half sent letters of interest. @Carbonara37’s points to other students not sending them, also.Yup! I also don't like lying. Given the tiny odds of anyone actually getting into Mayo, and knowing that this is one of the hoops that have to be jumped through, maybe it's just not worth it and I won't apply at all. If it means they hold a grudge and don't give me a residency in the future, so be it. I'm pretty sure if I'm in a position to turn down an A from Mayo, I'll be okay whether or not I get a Mayo residency.
I just think it's really obnoxious to either expect, favor or require this as a precondition to granting an A, and can't imagine going through everything to get to this point in the process and then blowing it due to being uncomfortable telling an adcom what it needs to hear. How am I supposed to know that I "intend" to attend Mayo if accepted before knowing whether I'll have an opportunity at Harvard, Penn, Hopkins, Stanford, my state school, wherever? If I don't, I really have to give up my 2% shot at Mayo, even if I really liked it?
I'm absolutely not suggesting sending them a LOI after you KNOW you won't be attending, just to jerk them around to see what happens, but I also think it's ridiculous to shoot yourself in the foot over some very high minded sense of right and wrong, while a major institution puts you in this position for no good reason aside from a doomed to fail effort to control yield.
Mayo is one of the finest medical schools in the world. It need not fret that the class it ultimately seats will be highly capable, highly motivated, and thrilled to be there, with or without BS LOIs written on command by anxious applicants. And this will be true whether any particular student chooses it over Harvard, chooses it because they are never called off the Harvard WL, or chooses it because Mayo is the only MD school where the student received an A! 😎
Same... Interviewed first week of November and still haven't heard anything :/Has anyone who interviewed mid-November not gotten their "review complete" email? It's kinda concerning me now :/
Thank you VERY much for posting this!!! It's very reassuring and makes a ton of sense.Although it’s clear Mayo appreciates ongoing communication (updates, LOIs), I think your fear that not sending one greatly impacts the chance of A is SDN bias. Of the students I have connected with (n=7), not one of them sent a letter of intent. About half sent letters of interest. @Carbonara37’s points to other students not sending them, also.
From my understanding, it’s not just yield protection, but rather ensuring that the students they accept subscribe to the unique culture and values of Mayo. I thought it was just about accepting students they know will attend over “other highly ranked schools” (as last year’s secondary even stated) but after interviewing and talking with students, I realize it’s more about establishing a cultural fit.
Hold up!! From Mayo?! Just making sure because I thought they didn't let anyone know until Feb! Congrats tho!!Got the A call this morning! So excited 🥳
Highly ranked candidates can get a call early from a member of the adcom informing them that they are extremely likely to be accepted (afaik). Didn't know they'd start in December though?Hold up!! From Mayo?! Just making sure because I thought they didn't let anyone know until Feb! Congrats tho!!
Really? Maybe AZ is different then but for MN they told us calls would only go out once final decisions were made in middle/late FebruaryHighly ranked candidates can get a call early from a member of the adcom informing them that they are extremely likely to be accepted (afaik). Didn't know they'd start in December though?
I interviewed MN personally. I know people have already received highly ranked emails from their MN interviewers. I imagine the calls are a similar thing.Really? Maybe AZ is different then but for MN they told us calls would only go out once final decisions were made in middle/late February
Gotcha! Hopefully we both get the good news emails then!I interviewed MN personally. I know people have already received highly ranked emails from their MN interviewers. I imagine the calls are a similar thing.
Congrats! Do you mind clarifying if it was an official acceptance call or a "highly ranked" call?Got the A call this morning! So excited 🥳
Interviewed at AZ and they explicitly told us this too. They said the committee wouldn’t be making any final decisions until all candidates were interviewed and then would release all decisions at once in FebReally? Maybe AZ is different then but for MN they told us calls would only go out once final decisions were made in middle/late February
Sorry everyone— posted on the wrong thread 🤦🏼♀️ Deleting my post nowCongrats! Do you mind clarifying if it was an official acceptance call or a "highly ranked" call?
Yes! I think it’s going out to all the intervieweesAnyone else get an email from the admissions office to schedule a zoom with them??
When did you all interview? I haven't received an email.Yes! I think it’s going out to all the interviewees
+1I haven't received an email.
Anyone else get an email from the admissions office to schedule a zoom with them??
I got the email, but a point of clarification... I got it not from someone in admissions but their title was within “enrollment management.”Anyone else get an email from the admissions office to schedule a zoom with them??
10/16When did you all interview? I haven't received an email.