2020-2021 Washington University in St. Louis

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You think they’ll share admission notices today? Or wait til next week? Seems variable.
 
dr_lucid_dreamer said:
You think they’ll share admission notices today? Or wait til next week? Seems variable.
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I think they only make calls the night of when they meet (Thursdays only so far) and over the weekend following that. The next time someone mentioned on here for when they'll meet was Jan 28, so I don't think there's any reason to be glued to your phone today/this weekend.
 
Just interviewed today and had a great experience! As someone who knew very little about this school in the beginning, I'm struggling to now not get my hopes up. Any idea why they accept so few from their interviews? or even why so many accepted defer for another program? I am referring to the "Post-Interview Acceptance Rate" spreadsheet posted by TheDataKing.
 
viralhiker said:
Just interviewed today and had a great experience! As someone who knew very little about this school in the beginning, I'm struggling to now not get my hopes up. Any idea why they accept so few from their interviews? or even why so many accepted defer for another program? I am referring to the "Post-Interview Acceptance Rate" spreadsheet posted by TheDataKing.
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I think it's in part due to people not wanting to be in St. Louis compared to places like Chicago or Boston
 
viralhiker said:
Just interviewed today and had a great experience! As someone who knew very little about this school in the beginning, I'm struggling to now not get my hopes up. Any idea why they accept so few from their interviews? or even why so many accepted defer for another program? I am referring to the "Post-Interview Acceptance Rate" spreadsheet posted by TheDataKing.
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It's better to ask why they give out so many IIs (more than 1000!!) than why they accept so few. I think WUSM wants to invite more people who doesn't have any ties to WashU or St. Louis to let them know how great the school is. As a WashU undergrad, I already knew about its great facility, amazing faculty, and overall educational experiences. But if you've never been to the campus and just heard about St. Louis through secondary sources, you might be unwilling to choose this school over other schools from similar tier or even slightly lower tier in the ranking.
 
viralhiker said:
Just interviewed today and had a great experience! As someone who knew very little about this school in the beginning, I'm struggling to now not get my hopes up. Any idea why they accept so few from their interviews? or even why so many accepted defer for another program? I am referring to the "Post-Interview Acceptance Rate" spreadsheet posted by TheDataKing.
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Columbia, Mayo, and Harvard (and probably others) all do something similar with a lot of IIs compared to the final number of acceptances. These schools at the very top who have their pick of students are really curating a class, and while you can get a feel for that in an application I think they probably like to get a better idea of what people are like in person. If you cast a relatively wide net with your interviews, that makes it easier to build the class profile you want.
 
SiberianIris said:
Columbia, Mayo, and Harvard (and probably others) all do something similar with a lot of IIs compared to the final number of acceptances. These schools at the very top who have their pick of students are really curating a class, and while you can get a feel for that in an application I think they probably like to get a better idea of what people are like in person. If you cast a relatively wide net with your interviews, that makes it easier to build the class profile you want.
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I think they also know that if given the chance, most of their interviewees are likely to choose bigger/east coast cities like Boston, NYC, Baltimore (I think someone literally mentioned that just a few posts ago) or the west coast like LA or SF over St. Louis; therefore, they cast a wide net of interviews and accept over time to ensure that they have enough people to fill their class. I just wish they'd choose people who clearly indicate that they aren't too fond of busy cities to start with.
 
PotatoSquare said:
I think they also know that if given the chance, most of their interviewees are likely to choose bigger/east coast cities like Boston, NYC, Baltimore (I think someone literally mentioned that just a few posts ago) or the west coast like LA or SF over St. Louis; therefore, they cast a wide net of interviews and accept over time to ensure that they have enough people to fill their class. I just wish they'd choose people who clearly indicate that they aren't too fond of busy cities to start with.
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I honestly don't think that location is a significant factor in this strategy. Harvard, NYU, and Columbia are in coastal cities and they all have lower post-II acceptance rates than WashU. I also think the desire to be in a fancy city is somewhat tempered by the super high COL, and the price differential is further offset by WashU's excellent financial aid.

Edit because this thought felt incomplete: Ultimately, while WashU’s yield may be slightly lower than its coastal peers, I don’t think it makes sense to chalk up the II:A ratio to that factor since several of those coastal peer schools do the exact same thing. I think it’s much more likely to be a deliberate strategy, while your UCSFs and Vanderbilts employ a heavy pre-interview application screen instead, and thus interview fewer people.
 
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Ngl when I think of this school everything seems absolutely amazing except...well...the location. Not to say that St Louis is bad but I definitely see why people would prefer the coasts since I too personally would prefer the coasts.

Petition to move WashU in California? Maybe swap places with Stanford?
 
From what I've gathered, the tour dress code is casual and the admissions Q&A and Financial Aid meeting are at least a collared shirt?

Also, the KIRA is a harder VITA?
 
theoddorre said:
Ngl when I think of this school everything seems absolutely amazing except...well...the location. Not to say that St Louis is bad but I definitely see why people would prefer the coasts since I too personally would prefer the coasts.

Petition to move WashU in California? Maybe swap places with Stanford?
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I think the location in St. Louis matches the school's mission of serving historically oppressed communities and that's personally a major reason why I love the school, I just wish St. Louis itself wasn't in the middle of nowhere lol... and as for Stanford, its location is around pretty much all upper-middle class communities so it wouldn't fit WashU's vibe or mission, but I do agree that moving it to CA (like in a highly underserved area) would be perf 😢
 
penguins2727 said:
From what I've gathered, the tour dress code is casual and the admissions Q&A and Financial Aid meeting are at least a collared shirt?

Also, the KIRA is a harder VITA?
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Yeah that dress code seems about right.
I thought the KIRA was about the same difficulty as VITA, but the practice KIRA did not really reflect the actual one, for me at least.
 
To any St Louis residents or Washu undergrads: how is life in St. Louis, really? Especially for people who have lived on the east/west coasts previously, how does it compare? Does it actually feel like the middle of nowhere??
 
theoddorre said:
Ngl when I think of this school everything seems absolutely amazing except...well...the location. Not to say that St Louis is bad but I definitely see why people would prefer the coasts since I too personally would prefer the coasts.

Petition to move WashU in California? Maybe swap places with Stanford?
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As someone who grew up in Missouri (~2 hrs away from STL) that now has lived in SoCal for the past 6 years, I'd prefer WashU stay where it is. STL may seem tiny compared to Chicago, NYC, LA, SF, etc., but it is still a major city that has way more to offer than where I grew up. I don't dig the COL in SoCal and how everything regardless of distance seems 30+ minutes away. I've saved up as much as I can working the past few years to prepare for med school, and my dollar will go a lot further in STL than in other big cities. I would say keep WashU where it is. The coasts have plenty of fabulous medical schools. Removing WashU from where it is would create even more of a vacuum in Midwest medical education.
 
As a St. Louisan I am sad that our city has such a poor reputation. I think people forget that actually 1 million + people live in St. Louis and it is, in itself, a city. There is dancing, a free world-class zoo and museums in Forest Park, sports, a 10x+ World Series champion baseball team, music, craft beer, festivals, startups, foot races, casinos, Monsanto and Pfizer both have offices here, a full symphony orchestra, a broadway-style theatre house, comedy, shopping, proximity to hiking and biking... lots to do. I wouldn't be anxious to discount cities that aren't on the East Coast or in California.

Midwesterners often feel that people who live on the coast think less of them- people on the coasts may think less of the midwest even if they have never been there. To be very honest the more I read on SDN the more I feel this is really how people feel.

TLDR Wash U is a great school and it is needed here.
 
justaword said:
As a St. Louisan I am sad that our city has such a poor reputation. I think people forget that actually 1 million + people live in St. Louis and it is, in itself, a city. There is dancing, a free world-class zoo and museums in Forest Park, sports, a 10x+ World Series champion baseball team, music, craft beer, festivals, startups, foot races, casinos, Monsanto and Pfizer both have offices here, a full symphony orchestra, a broadway-style theatre house, comedy, shopping, proximity to hiking and biking... lots to do. I wouldn't be anxious to discount cities that aren't on the East Coast or in California.

Midwesterners often feel that people who live on the coast think less of them- people on the coasts may think less of the midwest even if they have never been there. To be very honest the more I read on SDN the more I feel this is really how people feel.

TLDR Wash U is a great school and it is needed here.
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How’s the bbq tho
 
The barbecue is meh imo, but in general, the food scene in St. Louis is amazing and super underrated. Tbh the whole city is underrated. As much stuff to do as larger cities except you can afford to do it. Tons of parks and green spaces, really awesome festivals, and a super cheap cost of living to top it all off.
 
justaword said:
As a St. Louisan I am sad that our city has such a poor reputation. I think people forget that actually 1 million + people live in St. Louis and it is, in itself, a city. There is dancing, a free world-class zoo and museums in Forest Park, sports, a 10x+ World Series champion baseball team, music, craft beer, festivals, startups, foot races, casinos, Monsanto and Pfizer both have offices here, a full symphony orchestra, a broadway-style theatre house, comedy, shopping, proximity to hiking and biking... lots to do. I wouldn't be anxious to discount cities that aren't on the East Coast or in California.

Midwesterners often feel that people who live on the coast think less of them- people on the coasts may think less of the midwest even if they have never been there. To be very honest the more I read on SDN the more I feel this is really how people feel.

TLDR Wash U is a great school and it is needed here.
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There are only about 300k people in the city proper, but could be over 1M if they'd hurry and just consolidate the city and county. Plus the metro area is over 3M. It's not a small city by any stretch of the imagination, but you don't have to deal with traffic as you do in similarly-sized or larger cities. And the public transportation isn't quite East Coast or Chicago level, but it's pretty darn reliable for most destinations.
 
duck_sauce said:
To any St Louis residents or Washu undergrads: how is life in St. Louis, really? Especially for people who have lived on the east/west coasts previously, how does it compare? Does it actually feel like the middle of nowhere??
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I'd recommend visiting St. Louis if possible. Hopefully, second look is in-person!
 
duck_sauce said:
To any St Louis residents or Washu undergrads: how is life in St. Louis, really? Especially for people who have lived on the east/west coasts previously, how does it compare? Does it actually feel like the middle of nowhere??
Click to expand...

I wouldnt say it felt like the middle of nowhere but it did feel just like a giant suburb for me tbh. The downtown area is pretty dead and the cwe (where washu is) has some activity during the day but becomes dead at night.
 
joshuamarcus said:
I wouldnt say it felt like the middle of nowhere but it did feel just like a giant suburb for me tbh. The downtown area is pretty dead and the cwe (where washu is) has some activity during the day but becomes dead at night.
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This sounds perfect for someone like me ahaha
 
joshuamarcus said:
I wouldnt say it felt like the middle of nowhere but it did feel just like a giant suburb for me tbh. The downtown area is pretty dead and the cwe (where washu is) has some activity during the day but becomes dead at night.
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I agree. I was a WashU undergrad and lived in St. Louis for 10 years. It's definitely not a very dense city, and the areas immediately outside WashU UG and med campus are a bit barren. But yes, it's still a city with many free things to do.
 
Anyone know why WashU chose not to use VITA or Caspr but make their own asynch interview? I don't get the point.
 
orangesiclez said:
Anyone know why WashU chose not to use VITA or Caspr but make their own asynch interview? I don't get the point.
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Maybe they had a set a specific situations/questions they wanted to ensure were in the mix for their asynch interview...? The asych is also a mix of video and written response, so maybe that has something to do with it. Also not 100% sure, but I didn't think about the "why" and just plowed through it haha.
 
orangesiclez said:
Anyone know why WashU chose not to use VITA or Caspr but make their own asynch interview? I don't get the point.
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Because both VITA and Ca$per are scams and shouldn't really have any weight on your application as they don't provide any useful information beyond your application already. A good Casper score is not indicative of good future step scores. You don't even get to see your score for whatever reason. You just blindly apply. Plus, doing poorly on your one time asynchronous interview on VITA should not ruin your chances for every single school that uses it. I'd rather be inconvenienced slightly by doing it many times than put all my eggs in the Vita basket. Speaking of, my Vita crashed 3x while on Chrome on my spec'd out 16" MBP. I ended up repeating the same question 3x and I would get crash warnings every minute and it was really distracting. I emailed AAMC and they didn't really care. I have no clue what my end Vita even looked like. Separate asynch interviews are truly better imo.
 
parametz said:
A good Casper score is not indicative of good future step scores.
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Don't think they're using Casper to predict our step scores, but rather our interpersonal skills. Being a doctor is more than being smart. But yes, I agree VITA and casper suck
 
mvsrocks said:
Don't think they're using Casper to predict our step scores, but rather our interpersonal skills. Being a doctor is more than being smart. But yes, I agree VITA and casper suck
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It was just an example of how a random personality test cannot tell a good future doctor from a bad one. Plenty of psychopaths can do well on the Casper. If Casper had any true worth, schools wouldn't need to interview.

and "Being a doctor is more than being smart" - exactly. So why would you test for interpersonal skills using rigid guidelines?
 
parametz said:
It was just an example of how a random personality test cannot tell a good future doctor from a bad one. Plenty of psychopaths can do well on the Casper. If Casper had any true worth, schools wouldn't need to interview.
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Yes, but ON AVERAGE, would you not agree that people with better communication skills would do better on VITA/Casper? I'm sure some psychopaths slipped through, but probably fewer with a situational judgement test. Also, Casper is relatively new and schools are still determining whether they are indicative of anything worthwhile. More schools are requiring it every year.

I could also make the same argument for MCAT and Step. I'm sure there are plenty of applicants who didn't do well on MCAT but would make great doctors. We still need some way to differentiate applicants, and Casper/VITA/MCAT/Step are (unfortunately) the ways. I also hated Casper/VITA, but I understand why schools are trying to use them.

parametz said:
and "Being a doctor is more than being smart" - exactly. So why would you test for interpersonal skills using rigid guidelines?
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I mean graders are constantly looking for empathy, non-judgement, and good ethics. Are those the rigid guidelines you are referring to? And VITA/Casper are similar to MMIs. You read the prompt, get time to think about it, then answer. Do you not agree with the MMI interview format?
 
mvsrocks said:
Yes, but ON AVERAGE, would you not agree that people with better communication skills would do better on VITA/Casper? I'm sure some psychopaths slipped through, but probably fewer with a situational judgement test. Also, Casper is relatively new and schools are still determining whether they are indicative of anything worthwhile. More schools are requiring it every year.

I could also make the same argument for MCAT and Step. I'm sure there are plenty of applicants who didn't do well on MCAT but would make great doctors. We still need some form of way to differentiate applicants, and Casper/VITA/MCAT/Step are (unfortunately) the ways.


I mean graders are constantly looking for empathy, non-judgement, and good ethics. Are those the rigid guidelines you are referring to? And VITA/Casper are similar to MMIs. You read the prompt, get time to think about it, then answer. Do you not agree with the MMI interview format?
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MCAT and USMLE have studies linking predictive validity. They are objectively graded with clear answers. You get a score and you have ways to prepare for success. If you do poorly, you know where to improve.

My issue with Casper is that there is no information on who grades it and what their qualifications are to deem someone empathetic or non judgmental or ethical. Casper pays them $20-30 an hour and their vetting process seems pretty substandard. You don't even receive a score. This negatively impacts people from different backgrounds who would interpret the odd Casper situations differently, people who learned English as a second language and have trouble expressing their thoughts quickly in English, and frankly people who just type slow. These people can be fantastic physicians, but the rigidity of the assessment would score them low. One might consider these as better communication skills but there are way too many confounding factors. Some people cannot afford the cost of sending the Casper to every school and it's an added cost that makes this admissions process even more exclusionary to URMs and lower income families. None of those things apply to me, but it's hard to discount them. Most top 20 schools don't bother with Casper and those who did in the past no longer do. There are better ways to demonstrate ethics and communication skills such as via your AMCAS activities section. Communication skills aren't something that should be tested, rather something that should be practiced. Schools seemed to do just fine selecting classes before the Casper and I'm sure they'll be fine without it.

As for MMIs, they are graded by actual physicians and or people who are in the business of medical school admissions. These are people with real experience wrt to medical ethics and effective communication. They are face to face. Also, interviews and MMIs are included in the price you paid to apply. They are much more fluid, aren't negatively affected by technology issues, and are more open to follow up and additional dialogue (not rigid). You can mess up your interview at WashU and not have it affect your candidacy at 20 other schools you applied to. People aren't perfect. In the end, Casper is nothing more than a cash grab.

VITA could be a decent MMI replacement if it remained free and you had the ability to take it once per school with different questions. One asynchronous interview session shouldn't ruin your shot at every school you applied to. Hope this helps.
 
parametz said:
MCAT and USMLE have studies linking predictive validity. They are objectively graded with clear answers. You get a score and you have ways to prepare for success. If you do poorly, you know where to improve.

My issue with Casper is that there is no information on who grades it and what their qualifications are to deem someone empathetic or non judgmental or ethical. Casper pays them $20-30 an hour and their vetting process seems pretty substandard. You don't even receive a score. This negatively impacts people from different backgrounds who would interpret the odd Casper situations differently, people who learned English as a second language and have trouble expressing their thoughts quickly in English, and frankly people who just type slow. These people can be fantastic physicians, but the rigidity of the assessment would score them low. One might consider these as better communication skills but there are way too many confounding factors. Some people cannot afford the cost of sending the Casper to every school and it's an added cost that makes this admissions process even more exclusionary to URMs and lower income families. None of those things apply to me, but it's hard to discount them. Most top 20 schools don't bother with Casper and those who did in the past no longer do. There are better ways to demonstrate ethics and communication skills such as via your AMCAS activities section. Communication skills aren't something that should be tested, rather something that should be practiced. Schools seemed to do just fine selecting classes before the Casper and I'm sure they'll be fine without it.

As for MMIs, they are graded by actual physicians and or people who are in the business of medical school admissions. These are people with real experience wrt to medical ethics and effective communication. They are face to face. Also, interviews and MMIs are included in the price you paid to apply. They are much more fluid, aren't negatively affected by technology issues, and are more open to follow up and additional dialogue (not rigid). You can mess up your interview at WashU and not have it affect your candidacy at 20 other schools you applied to. People aren't perfect. In the end, Casper is nothing more than a cash grab.

VITA could be a decent MMI replacement if it remained free and you had the ability to take it once per school with different questions. One asynchronous interview session shouldn't ruin your shot at every school you applied to. Hope this helps.
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Thank you for the insight. I get that you hate Casper, but I'm talking about SJTs in general (VITA/Casper/Kira). I agree that these situational judgment tests can be improved (financial assistance, better grading, transparency), but I wouldn't discount them until we have data on whether they predict success in clinical years. And these applicants are applying to English speaking medical schools. Thus, English communication skills are required and tested by interviews + SJTs + CARS, regardless of their first language.

I'll PM you with more details because this discussion may not fit in a school-specific thread.
 
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mvsrocks said:
Thank you for the insight. I get that you hate Casper, but I'm talking about SJTs in general (VITA/Casper/Kira). I agree that these situational judgment tests can be improved (financial assistance, better grading, transparency), but I wouldn't discount them until we have data on whether they predict success in clinical years. And these applicants are applying to English speaking medical schools. Thus, English communication skills are required and tested by interviews + SJTs + CARS, regardless of their first language.

I'll PM you with more details because this discussion may not fit in a school-specific thread.
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I think it's relevant to WashU because they don't use Vita or Casper, and for good reason. And English skills in a timed typing test =/= face to face interview.
 
Does anyone know how to schedule or get more information about "Meet the M1s" sessions? I see these listed on the calendar but nothing on the Eventbrite website.
 
Any news about the Facebook group for accepted students?
 
duck_sauce said:
To any St Louis residents or Washu undergrads: how is life in St. Louis, really? Especially for people who have lived on the east/west coasts previously, how does it compare? Does it actually feel like the middle of nowhere??
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omg no you do not feel like you're in the middle of nowhere. It's a good medium-sized city and there's literally anything you could ever want to do or go to and a bunch of cool, STL only places and stuff like The Hill. It's not Boston or Atlanta but its def not like Lexington, KY or something small like that either. Also West County is very nice. Also WashU is in the cool, older part of STL that's like pretty and historic.
 
shawzam05 said:
omg no you do not feel like you're in the middle of nowhere. It's a good medium-sized city and there's literally anything you could ever want to do or go to and a bunch of cool, STL only places and stuff like The Hill. It's not Boston or Atlanta but its def not like Lexington, KY or something small like that either. Also West County is very nice. Also WashU is in the cool, older part of STL that's like pretty and historic.
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Is Atlanta considered big?
 
PotatoSquare said:
Is Atlanta considered big?
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I wouldn't call it big in the traditional city-sense like NYC or Los Angeles since Atlanta is a lot more sprawled out, but it's definitely not a small city either. Somewhere in between.
 
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